FanIQ News: 2009 Hall Of Fame candidates announced; Rickey Henderson takes a huge lead, steals the first spot as a lock -

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12/1/08

2009 Hall Of Fame candidates announced; Rickey Henderson takes a huge lead, steals the first spot as a lock

MLB

submitted by

Pat

more posts by author

Read Article: (mlb.mlb.com)

2009 candidates
• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker
• Dan Plesac
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams

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214 days ago

Pat

VOTE:

-0

Hebetude wrote:

Dan Plesac? LOL

I think it's safe to say that he won't receive sufficient votes for induction, along with about 20 other guys on that list.

Rickey's a lock, in my opinion. Beyond that, there's a group of 9-10 borderline guys, and then a bunch who have no chance at all.

214 days ago

Boski93

VOTE:

-0

All Hail Harold Douglas Baines - Patron Saint of Designated Hitters!

214 days ago

HeirToKetwerp

VOTE:

-0

(Edited 12/15/08 3:34AM by HeirToKetwerp)

Rickey Henderson is the only Hall of Famer on that list.

214 days ago

Ryan

VOTE:

-0

The real question is:

Who gets more votes - Ron Gant or Dan Plesac?

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

Ryan wrote:

The real question is:

Who gets more votes - Ron Gant or Dan Plesac?

I'd say Gant but if he swung at Plesac he'd miss

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

I bet Rickey is sooo proud of Rickey

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

Dale Murphy is a HOF'er

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

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Hebetude wrote:

Why?

2x MVP...7x All-Star..5x Gold GLover...398 HR's...not to mention hes a Religious Advocate...people love that

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

Hebetude wrote:

If he would have hit .295 instead of .265 I'd say yes. But hitting .265 I think he needed to hit a lot more home runs to get in. Or at least drive in 1600 he only had 1266 rbi.

His BA was low, and I actually didn't realize it until I wiki'ed it! Johnny Bench was only a .267 hitter and Fisk was .269..Reggie .262..Mazeroski .260...He'll get in

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

RenegadeLG wrote:

You're comparing Dale Murphy to Johnny Bench and Reggie Jackson?

no just their averages...Brooks Robinson as well...obviously Reggie hit way more HR's and RBI

214 days ago

derms33

VOTE:

-0

Just tryin to give someone else on the list a chance. Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson, and Blyleven should get in. Orosco, Gant, Vaughn (x2), and Plesac...not so much

214 days ago

gearhead

VOTE:

-0

Rich Lederer will have 10,000 words on Blyleven by the end of the week.

214 days ago

gearhead

VOTE:

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RenegadeLG wrote:

Blyleven also wasn't very good in the postseason. So if he does get in, Curt Schilling better follow.

He was 5-1 with a 2.47 ERA in the postseason.

214 days ago

gearhead

VOTE:

-0

RenegadeLG wrote:

Like I said, Blyleven wasn't very good in the postseason. The emphasis was on the 'very', not the 'good'. 11-2 with a 2.2 ERA is very good. Bert also never came close to 300 Ks in a season, something Schilling did 4 times. Had injuries not put a couple speed bumps in Schilling's career, he'd be thought of as one of the best pitchers in the history of the game. 48 BBs per 162 too, ridiculous.

So while Blyleven was a fine pitcher, it bothers me that the same people that demand his ticket punched aren't so sure about Schilling - who has a much more impressive resume.

I haven't looked at Schilling yet.

Moving on, could somebody please explain to me how Rice will get elected this year, while Raines will be lucky to get 25%. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

213 days ago

Pat

VOTE:

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derms33 wrote:

His BA was low, and I actually didn't realize it until I wiki'ed it! Johnny Bench was only a .267 hitter and Fisk was .269..Reggie .262..Mazeroski .260...He'll get in

Kind of a terrible comparison... Bench and Fisk were elite catchers, which makes it tolerable to have slightly lower offensive output. Reggie Jackson had 563 HR's, but otherwise had no business being in the Hall anyway, and Mazeroski might have been the least deserving member in the entire HOF.

If you have to use those guys to make excuses for Dale Murphy, then he shouldn't be in.

208 days ago

bachslunch

VOTE:

-0

(Edited 12/07/08 1:27PM by bachslunch)

Renegade says: "Like I said, Blyleven wasn't very good in the postseason. The emphasis was on the 'very', not the 'good'. 11-2 with a 2.2 ERA is very good."

Baloney. You're making the comparison as if Blyleven and Schilling had pitched the same number of games. Schilling in fact appeared in 19 postseason games while Blyleven pitched in 8 -- in other words, well more than twice as many in Schilling's case. Assuming W-L really matters all that much, 5-1 in 8 games compares perfectly favorably to 11-2 in 19 games. And the ERAs are comparable. There's no basis for your suggestion that Schilling was better than Blyleven here. And anyone who thinks Jack Morris was a great postseason pitcher needs to look at his stats: 13 G, 7-4 W-L, 3.80 ERA -- he's got the Kodak moments, but not so hot stats overall.

The reason people are questioning whether Schilling should be in the HoF or not is based on Schilling's regular season stats. If you compare similarity scores, he has three marginal HoF-ers in his top 10: Don Drysdale, Dazzy Vance, and Catfish Hunter. He also has 7 non-HoF-ers: Kevin Brown, Bob Welch, Orel Herschiser, Freddie Fitzsimmons, John Smoltz, Milt Pappas, and Jim Perry -- all Hall of the Very Good, with only Smoltz having any possible chance of HoF election. There's in fact a basis for that questioning.

Blyleven's similars include 8 HoF-ers: Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Ferguson Jenkins, Robin Roberts, Tom Seaver, Early Wynn, Phil Niekro, and Steve Carlton -- a strong bunch. And the two non-HoF-ers are in fact ones who may get in via the Veterans Committee down the road, Jim Kaat, and Tommy John. In fact, that's an extremely good HoF case for Blyleven. He belongs in.

208 days ago

bachslunch

VOTE:

-0

Hebetude wrote:

Because Rice played in Boston and Raines played his best years in Montreal.

More importantly, Rice is in his last year of regular eligibility. He fell only a couple of votes short, and if history holds true, he'll get enough votes this time to go over the top -- it's not unusual for players on the cusp to get a vote boost their last time out. And no player who has gotten 70% of the vote without being elected hasn't made it in sooner or later. He's on the marginal side, but not unreasonable, with 4 second-tier HoF similars (Orlando Cepeda, Duke Snider, Billy Williams, Willie Stargell).

Raines has a number of eligible years left, and I'm hoping he makes it eventually. He too has four second rung HoF similars: Lou Brock, Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Enos Slaughter.

Both actually have very reasonable second-tier level cases, and I won't gripe if both get elected.

208 days ago

bachslunch

VOTE:

-0

Keeter wrote: "Blylevin's average won/loss record was like 13-11; hardly HOF material. I don't have the #'s handy now, but I'm sure that Ford & Drysdale had much better winning %'s."

W-L and win% are affected very strongly by how good a team you pitched for, and do not necessarily correlate with how well you pitched. Note well that Ford pitched for the Yankees in their glory years and Drysdale did so for the Dodgers in theirs -- in fact, if they don't have decent win% numbers pitching for such squads, that's a problem. Blyleven however toiled most of his career on mediocre to crummy Texas, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and California teams, and that can (and apparently did) affect his W-L numbers.