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10/13/06

Big Ticket the first big complainer

NBA, Minnesota Timberwolves

CriticalFanatic

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NBA Commissioner David Stern has made it a point to cut down on the griping and whining that ensues after nearly every whistle.

Safe to say Kevin Garnett is unhappy:

"To the fact that you can't really speak to the refs, the refs don't want to hear it. That's almost like Communism. That's like Castro."

Good to see KG has things in perspective. Garnett's Timberwolves apparently were the first victim of the new policy during their first preseason game. Mark Blount was ejected after two technical fouls and Marco Jaric was hit with another. I love this new clamp down which may increase whining in the short term, but in the end provide a much better product on the floor.

"In my 22 years in the game I have never seen a call, or a non-call, reversed because a player complained ... All it does is show a less attractive side to the greatest athletes in the world."

And that is why David Stern is widely acknowledged as the best Commish in sports. Do you think this new policy is too harsh? Should they just let them play?

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10/13/06

0	Whether I'm watching or playing basketball, I hate whining. It interrupts the flow of the game and it does give some players an advantage. I'll be thrilled if this cleans it up.

10/13/06

CriticalFanatic

(Edited by CriticalFanatic)
Ty wrote:

Whether I'm watching or playing basketball, I hate whining. It interrupts the flow of the game and it *does* give some players an advantage. I'll be thrilled if this cleans it up.

Ideally it should make the game much more watchable and in the end provide a much more marketable product. I can't wait to watch the first couple nights ... you know they'll crack down a little extra, and I wouldn't be surprised to see many big names in the locker room before the game is over.

10/13/06

0	YOu would be surprised or wouldn't be surprised to see the big names? I'll believe it when I see it. Take for example, Tim Duncan. I see about four or five Spurs games a year and he is always working the refs.

10/13/06

CriticalFanatic

0	Ty wrote: YOu would be surprised or wouldn't be surprised to see the big names? I'll believe it when I see it. Take for example, Tim Duncan. I see about four or five Spurs games a year and he is always working the refs. wouldn't ... That will indeed be interesting with Duncan. I want to see if guys like Lebron and Kobe will get called out who argue nearly all calls that aren't in their favor.

10/13/06

kappafla211

CriticalFanatic wrote:

wouldn't ... That will indeed be interesting with Duncan. I want to see if guys like Lebron and Kobe will get called out who argue nearly all calls that aren't in their favor.

Duncan is on my favorite team and I do have to say he knows how to work those refs real well. It will be tough but they needed something to crack down on the abuse the refs take during a game. If they(refs) mess up then they will be dealt with in the correct way.

10/13/06

drewstapes

0	It's so much a part of the NBA culture to see them complaining on EVERY call. I'd like to see it kept to a minimum, but I don't believe that will actually happen.

10/13/06

blipper21

(Edited by blipper21)

I guess I'll be at least a partial dissenter here; I think orderly, respectful petitioning of the refs should be allowed. When I played intramural football in college (I know, totally different arena), only team captains were supposed to discuss complaints with refs. I think something like that (again, orderly petitioning) can be good for sports.

I'm not sure if I have the details right, but I think that in last week's Bucs / Saints game, it was the fact that a Saints defender had complained about a pick being set by a Bucs player that led to Joey Galloway being caught setting a pick in a key play later in the game. That game was a close one, and the outcome could've been affected by the officials missing that call. I think refs have a tough job seeing as much as they can of what goes on during play. Legitimate, orderly petitions (from say a captain or coach) can help refs key in on violations that may be occuring. That's where I think the above quote about calls being reversed misses some of the point. It's not just about the play that just took place, but about what the refs are watching for in the plays that ensue.

10/13/06

outstanding

i have reffed and coached and played in enough high school sporting events to know that some conversation needs to take place between the refs and coaches and players. when coaching, i always tell the players they can only speak a little though, and to leave the lobbying to me. but a good ref allows some discourse to take place--not constant whining, but sometimes when you are playing, you have questions about things and it is the refs obligation to engage in the explanation of a rule, etc. the player does not understand. the refs who act like tough guys who will not acknowledge a player are the ones who generally have less grasp on the game and rules, i have found.

10/14/06

Beaze

First I wanna say that quote from Stern (I think) is totally wrong. The ref will NEVER overturn that call, but if they missed a grab against you and you complain...they may see the next one, so the arguing was worth it.

But, when I played ball, i rolled my eyes at refs, i've stormed away from them and all that...but if I talked to them it was always calm. I think you have to. If they call a foul on you, you need to ask what you did that they didn't like (cause it pretty much changes every game). I remember one night the ref was calling carry on my cross over and they NEVER did that before so I was p****. We had to talk about it and the ref actually told me "if I keep letting you do that, you'll get by him all night." WTF?? That's my fault?

10/14/06

0	blipper and outstanding make excellent points. So I guess questions to the refs should be allowed to a certain extent. My biggest complaint are the guys who jump up and down after every call...

10/14/06

blipper21

0	Ty wrote: blipper and outstanding make excellent points. So I guess questions to the refs should be allowed to a certain extent. My biggest complaint are the guys who jump up and down after every call... Yeah, I understand not liking exasperated cries and/or body language, especially when frequently repeated, without engaging in productive conversation with refs.

10/14/06

CriticalFanatic

blipper21 wrote:

Yeah, I understand not liking exasperated cries and/or body language, especially when frequently repeated, without engaging in productive conversation with refs.

Garnett is obviously overreacting. I'm sure players won't be tagged with fouls when they engage in conversation. So long as "conversation" doesn't mean shagging your head and yelling at them.

We all know why he's frustrated ... and I think that's great for the league.

10/15/06