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10/6/09

AP College Football Top 25: Picking On The Pollsters Week 6

After Six Weeks, Is The Poll Picture More Clear Than In The Pre-Season?

Jubanator14

more posts by author

Our weekly college football feature is back, where we take a look at each of the Associated Press ballots. Our mission is to hold these "experts" accountable, in hopes of improving the AP Poll in some small way. We'll be calling out all those writers who show far too much homerism to the team they cover. We'll point out those we don't think watched a single game, and those ballots that simply don't make any sense. And, occasionally we might even give someone a pat on the back when credit is due.

Another week, and another set of very confusing ballots. Usually in the college football season after six weeks of play, we have a great idea of which teams should be ranked and where they should be ranked, but this season seems to be the toughest season to rank teams, as evident from the oddities in both the AP and Coaches Polls. Even the Harris Poll seems to be all over the map.

So with all that said, there are still AP Pollsters out there who still stuck in their old ways, which means I have more material for another Picking on the Pollsters Column.

Really this week there aren't any ballots that are just terrible, other than Doug Lesmerises of course, so I'll just highlight some of the ballots that have a few discrepancies and have two truly awful ballot at the end.

Bob Asmussen (Champaign News-Gazette) - To my knowledge this is Bob's first appearance here. Bob is Big 10 bullish with Ohio St. (8), Iowa (11), and Penn St. (12) ahead of USC (13) and Miami (14).
Pete DiPrimio (Ft. Wayne News-Sentinel) - Mississippi at 11 and Oklahoma St. at 12, other than that not bad.
Mike DiRocco (Florida Times-Union) - Oklahoma St. at 12 and TCU at 13. Also Oklahoma at 15, one spot ahead of BYU.
Adam Van Brimmer (Savannah GA Morning News) - Missouri (11), Iowa (12), USC (13), and Ohio St. (14). Anyone who has seen those teams wouldn't rank them that way.
Steve Conroy (Boston Herald) - Iowa at 8, Oregon at 12, BYU at 13, Miami at 14, Mississippi at 16, Houston at 18. Come on Steve.
John Davis (Oxford (Miss.) Eagle) - Oklahoma at 14 and Mississippi at 15.
Kirk Herbstreit (WBNS-AM Columbus) - Auburn at 9, Boise St. at 10, Iowa 11, Cincinnati 13, Oklahoma St. 14, and TCU at 15.
John Adams (Knoxville News Sentinel) - Iowa at 7, Oregon at 8, Cincinnati at 9, and for some reason Houston and Michigan at 24 and 25 after losses.
Rick Nyman (WDEF-TV Chattanooga TN) - Oregon (10), TCU (11), Oklahoma St. (12), Oklahoma (13), Cincinnati (14). Not even close Rick.
Paul Arnett (Honolulu Star-Bulletin) - Mississippi at 9. Come on Paul, Mississippi is barely a Top 20 team.
John Clay (Lexington Herald-Leader) - John's 10-15 goes as follows: Miami, Oklahoma, Iowa, Penn St., Mississippi. Seriously. TCU is also all the way at 17.
Kirk Bohls (Austin American Statesmen) - Iowa at 5, Kansas at 10 ahead of Miami and USC, Cincinnati at 17, and Houston still ranked. That is pretty bad Kirk, I would assume you are better than that.
Scott Wolf (Los Angeles Daily News) - Mississippi at 7!, Nebraska and Kansas at 8 and 9 ahead of USC (10), Miami (11), and Boise St. (12). Oklahoma at 14 ahead of TCU and BYU. Notre Dame and PIttsburgh wrapping up his Top 25. Scott clearly spent his Saturday out at the beach or something because this is a bad ballot.

Now there are two more ballots that will share this weeks Worst Ballot Award. Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News and Glenn Guilbeau of the Gannett Louisiana. Both submitted ballots that when you guys see them will make you wonder if they even watched any games this weekend at all.

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10/6/09

drn0iswatr

2	evidently Kirk was at ACL this past weekend and not watching football.

10/6/09

jaddun

1	Please explain to me why you think that it is ok for Virginia Tech to be ranked 6th, but it's unreasonable for the Nebraska team that whooped up on them for 58.5 minutes to be in the top 10?

10/6/09

Jubanator14

2	jaddun wrote: Please explain to me why you think that it is ok for Virginia Tech to be ranked 6th, but it's unreasonable for the Nebraska team that whooped up on them for 58.5 minutes to be in the top 10? So you think it is OK to rank a team based on a loss? Nebraska has no win of great note, only a loss to Va Tech.

10/6/09

Jubanator14

2	Iowa has one win over a team that hasn't played anyone worth of note all year. USC and Miami have multiple wins over ranked teams while Iowa beat Arkansas St. by 3 and Northern Iowa by 1 with both games being at home.

10/6/09

tpowell25

Nick, I know it hurt you to list Okie St ahead of the Sooners. That won't last long though. It pains me just as much to say that I think Auburn should be ranked higher. They're playing great football and, IMO, they look better than Miami, Oklahoma St, and Penn St.

We're still a good two weeks away from any of these rankings holding any merit. So I don't think it's a big deal where any of these teams are listed right now. But I do believe that before it's all said and done, Houston will be back in the top 25.

10/6/09

Jubanator14

tpowell25 wrote:

It kind of does because I know, even as bad as we have looked sometimes this year, are better than Oklahoma St. plus with that game being in Norman this year, I've already given us the W.

10/6/09

jaddun

Jubanator14 wrote:

So you think it is OK to rank a team based on a loss? Nebraska has no win of great note, only a loss to Va Tech.

Last time I checked, Va Tech had a loss too. I know what you are thinking, "but they lost to Alabama, the number 3 team in the country". Which is my point exactly. If you play a good team tough, it should reflect on the type of team that you are. So why should it not reflect poorly on your ranking if you barely beat a bad team? I am not saying that I think the Huskers are deserving of a top 10 ranking. But at the same time, I would like to think that the people that are in charge of the polls would at least look at who is playing well and who is not. Iowa may be undefeated, but they almost lost to both Northern Iowa and Arkansas State (a team that the Huskers completely demolished). Oklahoma may be one of the 20 best teams in the country, but they haven't played like it, so why are we rewarding them for playing poorly. I understand that we have to recognize win - loss records, at some point in time we also have to take a good hard look at the quality of the wins. Miami beat, Oklahoma.......so what, I was less than impressed with either team in that game. Va Tech blew Miami out of the water (literally, it was raining pretty hard). The Huskers outplayed the Hokies all game long and lost by 1. Still we have Miami sitting pretty at #11 while Nebraska barely gets into the top 25. So what I am saying is, quit ranking teams because they are barely squeaking by teams that have been dominant in the past. This is a new season, judge teams as if that were so.

10/6/09

tpowell25

jaddun wrote:

What's hurting Nebraska is that their best victory is against Louisiana-Lafayette. They've only played one BCS school and lost. But like I said above, it's still a little too early for the rankings to matter. If Nebraska plays well on the road this week against Missouri, they'll get rewarded and move up in the polls.

And there are other teams on the board in the same boat as the Huskers, but it's just too early for me to have an issue with it. My guess is that in two weeks, the top 25 will have a pretty major face lift.

10/6/09

jerryyelverton

3	My ranking:
1 Florida 4-0
2 Alabama 5-0
3 Texas 4-0
4 LSU 5-0
5 Boise State 5-0
6 TCU 4-0
7 Iowa 5-0
8 Cincinnati 5-0
9 Auburn 5-0
10 South Florida 5-0
11 Wisconsin 5-0
12 Kansas 4-0
13 Missouri 4-0
14 USC 4-1
15 Ohio State 4-1
16 Penn State 4-1
17 South Carolina 4-1
18 Virginia Tech 4-1
19 Mississippi 3-1
20 Brigham Young 4-1
21 Oregon 4-1
22 Nebraska 3-1
23 Oklahoma State 3-1
24 Georgia Tech 4-1
25 Miami (FL) 3-1 Which of the unbeaten teams is really best has yet to be determined. But, until beaten, they deserve to be ranked ahead of these teams: USC (beaten by unranked team) Ohio State (beaten by USC) Va Tech (humiliated by Alabama 498 yds to 155 yds) Miami (blown out by Va Tech) And only a Boomer Sooner could rank a 2-2 Oklahoma team

10/6/09

jaddun

tpowell25 wrote:

I couldn't agree more. Right now the polls don't really matter too much. Once teams get into conference play we will see who the real players are. I just hope that the pollsters start watching the games.

10/6/09

Captain_Chaos

1	I am an AU fan, but I dunno if were worthy of 9th. let us get by Arkansas this weekend, and maybe - i certainly wouldnt rank us higher than 15th.

10/6/09

ojekeme1

(Edited by ojekeme1)

You mention Doug Lesmerises of the Cleveland Plain Dealer as having a "terrible" ballot. I would like to begin by defending a couple of his choices. Alabama and Boise St. have played the most consistent football of all the ranked teams. So for them to appear #1&2 on his ballot is defensible. For my opinion on Cincinnati, Va. Tech and Miami, please read further. While I agree that he has Auburn and Iowa too high these two selections alone do not make his opinion "terrible".

Based strictly upon what Miami has done against its schedule it deserves a top-10 ranking. They are the only program to have played against 4 ranked BCS schools. Yes they got blown out the water in Blacksburgh; but, they also have wins against the other 3 programs.

For Oklahoma to be anywhere near the top 25 is a joke. They lost to both of the ranked teams that they played. Do blowout wins against lesser teams justify a top 25 ranking? Isn't the same argument used to justify keeping OSU from being highly ranked (that they can't win the "big games")?

Cincinnati has played well this year ;and until they lose (either this weekend or next) they deserve to be in the top-10 discussion. But, I still have to wonder how they would fair against the other top-10 teams.

Va. Tech deserves a top-10 based again on its schedule. The only "cream-puffs" on its schedule are the weak teams in the ACC.

Although Virginia and Clemson are not BCS powerhouses, TCU (a non BCS school) did go on the road and beat them. So until they lose I have no problem with them being ranked in the top-10.

Like Cincinnati we will know more about Auburn in the up coming weeks. Their marque win right now is Tennessee and that doesn't say a whole lot.

For Kansas to be at #15 should make the season for Jay-hawks fans. Will they realistically finish there... I doubt it.

We will definitely find out a lot more about both Missouri and Nebraska in the next two weeks. Missouri's signature win is over a recently benched, over-hyped Juice Williams and Illinois. While Nebraska lost by one on the road to Va. Tech; the rest of its schedule is straight from the "day old" section of the bakery.

Lastly, while I can't explain the narrow victory at home against Purdue, Oregon is 2-1 against ranked schools and 4-0 against BCS schools. Similar credentials to Miami, USC, and Va. Tech. So for them to not be ranked in that #8-13 range is not to be looking at their current "body of work".

10/6/09

Quack_Attack

Can you even BELIEVE they are talking BSU in the national championship picture? With their pansy ass schedule, that is like skipping the NCAA tournament but wanting to play in the final four. They instituted the BCS to stop lame ass "champions" like BYU. If BSU goes to the championship, that will force the big conferences to go to a playoff. Peterson - coach at BSU - has already stated, to the press, that the current system is "better for BSU than a playoff."

10/7/09

PresEmart

1	Don't ever say that again.... please. You keep Florida, Bama and texas in the top three. The rest is a free for all. Lsu Miami and Cincinnati.

10/7/09

Quack_Attack

If BSU is a legit number five, then the Ducks should be higher. Played them close and have not lost since. OR... BSU is really more like a #15 team, in which case the Ducks are where they belong. And the Big 10 stinks... again... so credit wins against them should be taken with a grain of scepticism.

0	jerryyelverton wrote: My ranking:
1 Florida 4-0
2 Alabama 5-0
3 Texas 4-0
4 LSU 5-0
5 Boise State 5-0
6 TCU 4-0
7 Iowa 5-0
8 Cincinnati 5-0
9 Auburn 5-0
10 South Florida 5-0
11 Wisconsin 5-0
12 Kansas 4-0
13 Missouri 4-0
14 USC 4-1
15 Ohio State 4-1
16 Penn State 4-1
17 South Carolina 4-1
18 Virginia Tech 4-1
19 Mississippi 3-1
20 Brigham Young 4-1
21 Oregon 4-1
22 Nebraska 3-1
23 Oklahoma State 3-1
24 Georgia Tech 4-1
25 Miami (FL) 3-1 Which of the unbeaten teams is really best has yet to be determined. But, until beaten, they deserve to be ranked ahead of these teams: USC (beaten by unranked team) Ohio State (beaten by USC) Va Tech (humiliated by Alabama 498 yds to 155 yds) Miami (blown out by Va Tech) And only a Boomer Sooner could rank a 2-2 Oklahoma team

10/8/09

jerryyelverton

1	Quack_Attack wrote: If BSU is a legit number five, then the Ducks should be higher. Played them close and have not lost since. OR... BSU is really more like a #15 team, in which case the Ducks are where they belong. And the Big 10 stinks... again... so credit wins against them should be taken with a grain of scepticism. I'm not suggesting that BSU is truly a #5... nor that Oregon is not better than 21. Just saying the unbeaten teams should be given some benefit of the doubt at this point in the season. This is the box score of the game I watched... don't see it as "close"
	Boise	Oregon
Time of Poss.	42:32	17:28
Rushing	164	31
Passing	197	121
Total Yds	361	152
1st Downs	22	6
3rd Down Eff.	10-20	1-10

10/8/09

Quack_Attack

So I guess you think the Miami Ohio game was close because they looked better in the box score?

0	jerryyelverton wrote: I'm not suggesting that BSU is truly a #5... nor that Oregon is not better than 21. Just saying the unbeaten teams should be given some benefit of the doubt at this point in the season. This is the box score of the game I watched... don't see it as "close"
	Boise	Oregon
Time of Poss.	42:32	17:28
Rushing	164	31
Passing	197	121
Total Yds	361	152
1st Downs	22	6
3rd Down Eff.	10-20	1-10

10/8/09

Quack_Attack

What does that have to do with being eligible for the National Championship? Smack talk is awesome; Winning a bowl game is even better. Something BSU has not done in the last two years, and only once in the last five. Hell of a program... Maybe the Broncos would do better in the Bowls if they prepared by playing more than one real opponent a year. Then again, if they played a tougher schedule they might not make a bowl game. THAT is why undeafeated does not mean anything. Undefeated against who? Cal Davis? Miami OH. Mighty NMSU? Playing in the WAC and wanting in the BCS bowls is like skipping the NCAA touney and wanting in the Final Four.

10/8/09

jaddun

0	I think that Fresno State and Boise State need to join the PAC 10 so those losers can have a championship game that screws them over like the other real conferences in the country (barring the Big 10)

10/8/09

Quack_Attack

(Edited by Quack_Attack)

LOL. Ask Coach Pete if that is what he wants. The other departed coaches tell him he would be NUTS to leave BSU.
Is it because BSU recruits better players? A clear NO.
Is it because he can make more? NO.
Is that because Boise is the best place to live? Maybe (Boise is pretty great).
Is it because the weak conference gives them a better chance at a winning record and a BCS game? YES.

So joining the Pac-10 would be the worst of both worlds. Weaker recruits than the rest of the league. Lower pay than other coaches in the league.. Smaller home crowds than the other teams.. But an equaly tough schedule. The Mountain West is BSU's next step. IF they can improve the facilities enough and improve revenue enough, then they can improve recruiting. Yes, it IS all about the money. You should the the athlete dorms at U of O and UCLA and USC and UW. Luxury living AND dining.

10/8/09

Quack_Attack

jaddun wrote:

I think that Fresno State and Boise State need to join the PAC 10 so those losers can have a championship game that screws them over like the other real conferences in the country (barring the Big 10)

And BTW, the Pac-10 was the most underated conference in the country last year. The result was an undefeated Bowl season at 5-0, with wins over the Big 10, Big 12, Big East, ACC, and MWC. The Big Ten pulled an even bigger flop than usual, going 1-6. The WAC managed to win one out of five.

BTW, the MWC clearly belongs in the BCS, with a 67% winning percentage in 21 bowl game over the last five years. The Pac-10 also won 67%,over the last five bowl seasons, with 27 games played. The Big Ten has won a woeful 34% of 35 games. They ought to be booted.