They banned Charley Hustle.... why not A-Rod...

Cheating in baseball?!  Ya don't say...

I'd almost say that if that is true, that is worse than betting on your own team to win.

Just to play devil's advocate... Eric Young said today on OTL that in 2004 when he was with the Rangers that A-Rod would actually call the pitches for the catcher.  He theorized that that could be confused with tipping opposing batters.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Its up to Ms. Roberts to back up her allegations.

  Ya right who ever said that was probably just trying to get attention. Leave A-Rod alone he has got in enough crap.

Aw cmon, dating Madonna is a bit creepy, but worse than steroids???

LEAVE A-ROD ALONE!

Darn!  Beat me to it!  I mean the man dated Madonna voluntarily...there's nothing worse than that!

+10000, LMAO, Comment Of Month!

And on the very last day of it!

 Umm, when did McGuire get banned again?  He never got banned as an active player and he's never been formally banned from the HOF. Granted he's not worthy of the Hall anyway imho,  so he may be informally banned by nature of some voters not voting for him because of his 'roid use. But officially banned? Nope. Not saying he shouldn't be, but to say he's been banned is incorrect...

That dude/chick freaks me out.

I am so sick of A-Fraud. He is a cheater, and an attention whore and he deserves everything he gets.

It appears those who felt the "coming clean" press conference wasn't a total confession had the correct premonition after all.

I have a feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better.

Well, because its A-Rod, even if its false its going to get worse before it gets better.

There is a difference between irrelevant/against the CoC pictures and pictures that are funny/add to your comment. This picture applies to my comment that I made in response to the other member. You can't seem to understand that there is a difference.

Nick's picture is a reference to a YouTube video that was relevant to the post he responded to.  It was in no way irrelevant.

Yeah, no clue what A-Rod would be calling pitches but it explains why the Rangers never won.

How is a picture of the "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" guy in response to someone saying "Leave A-Rod alone" irrelevant? Everyone knows who that guy/girl is and got the joke. Which is obvious to the amount of funnies I got for posting it along with the comment.

He is such a disgrace to the game.  I can't believe this guy was one of my favorite players when he was with the Rangers and now this comes out.  He should be banned and he should be forced to pay back the $200 million+ to the Yankees and Rangers!

If you don't think it's irrelevant, and you can't do anything about it even if it WAS, then why are you hijacking the thread and having an irrelevant conversation about the relevance of the picture that he posted?

Let's stay on track, please.

I've never understood the issue with tipping pitches or stealing signs as even with the information in the batter's hands they would still have to make contact with the pitch, a feat that isn't exactly easy given the science behind the sport. This, to me, isn't any worse than the steroids issue and in no way influences my opinion on A-Rod. The guy was already an overrated bum who shot up in the backlots to gain the strength advantage required to jack homers while pawning himself off as a clean player capable of making a franchise millions upon millions for his clean records. He's always been a freaking shill and nothing more - this is just another reason for him to get publicity and add to his appearances in conversation and television. Great, another thousand or so checks for him to cash in and clear.


*edited for language

You seriously don't see what's wrong with telling the OPPOSING hitters what pitch is being thrown?

No. None at all. Again, the player still has to make contact, and has to get the timing on the pitch, as well as the location - there are a lot of variables to take into account. Knowing the pitch is a nice little advantage, but if it doesn't break the way the pitcher wants or you expect then what good was there in knowing it was coming if you happen to make contact in a manner you weren't expecting?

Again, this game has a lot of science behind it that leaves me wondering how tipping a pitch is in any way a huge advantage.

Selena Roberts is the A-Rod of journalism..  The fact anyone even gives this whore the time of day after the way she blew her integrity and dignity during the Duke Lacrosse fiasco is beyond me

 How did Arod tip pitches he was a shortstop. Just wondering 

I don't mean this in any disparaging way, but I can only assume that you have never played baseball.

One of the biggest games within the game is the individual battle between the hitter and pitcher. The key to the pitcher's success is his ability to keep the hitter off balance by mixing pitches and fooling the hitter. He does everything he can possibly do to disguise his pitches, and keep the hitter guessing.

The hitter, on the other time, has an average of about a half second to decide whether or not to swing, where he thinks the ball will go, whether or not he has to account for any movement on the pitch, and how that movement will affect the trajectory of the ball.

If he is told which type of pitch is coming, then he no longer has to think about most of those things. He just has to see where the ball is coming out of the pitcher's hand, and whether or not he thinks it will be a strike, based on the type of movement that the pitch has.

No, it doesn't hit the ball for him. But it definitely makes the hitter's job MUCH easier. Also, it's cheating, and downright traitorous. What if you were a pitcher, and you found out that someone on your own team was telling the opposition what pitches you were throwing? I would probably beat him with a sock full of nickels... but that's just me.

He looks in at the catcher's sign, and then signals to the hitter.

I think he belongs int he HOF same with Barry Bonds.... HOF is just a museum and i sure as hell dont think anyone should dismiss the era that saved baseball. The Civil War was a dark period in our countries history but you dont see it completly removed from the books. Its ridiculous so say he's not worthy because of all the pitchers and all the no name batters that also used Roids these guys prospered and saved baseball so you can watch it today.

If you're asking if I've ever played for a league or high school, no I haven't played at those levels, but I have played.

I am fully aware of the duel between batters and pitchers and have always took interest in that aspect of the game as it IS the game more so than any other part that gets placed in the highlight reels. The issue I'm having trouble understanding as to how tipping a pitch can in anyway completely ruin this was something brought up in the documentary about the "Shot heard 'round the world"; the Giants and Dodgers one-game playoff in 1951. The Giants were accused of stealing signs throughout the late half of that season, and even Bobby Thomas was claimed to have stole signs off of Ralph Branca. They talked about how he caught the sign for that first fastball down the pipe he never swung at, but the pitch he ends up hitting is high and in-tight on him, a much more difficult pitch to handle in the manner that he did.

You're wrong in the aspect that the batter would suddenly have to stop thinking about all of the others things if he knows, ahead of time, what the pitch will be because, again, the break could end up being different if it comes off the pitchers hand differently. If the pitcher hangs on too long it could break later than it would if it was dropped off at his usual release point. If the pitcher lets go too soon it might not break at all leaving it a dead riser. The batter would still have to account what kind of break that pitch is going to take during the delivery and whether or not he'll be able to time his swing and make the appropriate contact to get the hit (as opposed to just making contact).

It's cheating because someone says its cheating, but the 51 Giants were said to have done it and I don't recall them winning the series that year despite this tactic "benefiting" them. Not only that but A-Rod would have had to consult with the opposing team what his signs would be for each pitch so they knew what to look out for - now if you're going to jump on him for anything I think that's the thing, him actually consulting with another team on how to beat him and making sure they knew and understood his signals for the tip offs. The actual tipping off doesn't, in anyway, upset me.

This is almost up there with the pine tar nonsense - something I can't recall if ever proven in any scientific test that shows a ball will bounce off the bat harder and farther if said bat has enough pine tar on it.

me, personally, wouldnt trust the guy trying to tip a pitch.

Me personally, I wouldn't trust a guy who's stolen billions on the back of this game by pilfering himself as this pure and clean athlete. All of the endorsements and teams that have thrown themselves at him for his services all while he was lying about his edge. I'll hate the guy for those reasons instead.

I mean seriously, the guy ends a marriage for some fling with an international sex celebrity from the late 80's and early 90's and the next thing you find out is that he was a fraud and all of the publicity centered around him being the only clean guy to break the records taken by some of the "cheaters" this game helped turn into heroes in their journey of conquest - the guy always had the personality of scum and we're just now finding out about it.

The situations you're talking about are people stealing pitches FOR their own team. While that's also cheating, it's not nearly as bad. Catchers should mix up the signs if they think opponents are stealing their signs.

The problem with what A-Rod allegedly did was that he was stealing the signs FROM HIS OWN TEAM.. and relaying them to opponents. That's MUCH worse, because that's cheating for the OTHER team.

Which I understand. But again I take up more issue with the fact that he's a scum bag of a human being first and foremost and think that these actions aren't nearly as bad as everything else he's committed as a person. Like I said, the guy is a through and through scumbag.

But honestly, his shortcomings as a person are irrelevant to us as sports fans. As long as he's not getting thrown in jail, it's really none of our business. The only reason we give any thought whatsoever to what Alex Rodriguez does is because he is an incredible baseball player. So when he is doing things ON the field that are wrong, it's a bigger deal, since it is his performance on the field that put him in the public eye in the first place.

 So let me get this straight, you're saying the 'Roid era has saved baseball?  Don't think so...If anything, all it did was preserve the owners their precious cash cow and their laissez faire attitude back then is now coming back to bite them in the ass as people see the feats they bought into then were aided by a needle, not just the natural and talent for the game so many of us once loved.

And McGwire in the HOF?  Let's see, .263 lifetime hitter, not much defensively, never won an MVP, and (if you figure a 20% home run reduction without roid usage) not even a legitimate 500 HRs. (actually he hit 583, but again, would he have done so without roids?  Don't think so).  So what you have is a one dimensional, free swinging, average fielding, strike out prone slugger, who never showed an ability to carry a team and who basically cheapened the one thing that made him stand out, the home run.  In this day and age, thanks to the golden roid era, 50 home run hitters who do nothing else (you know, hit for average, field their position, steal bases) are a dime a dozen.  When you think of the HOF, you think of names like DiMaggio, Williams, Gehrig, Ruth, Musial, Mantle, Bench, Fisk...hell even Bonds had HOF numbers (even before the roids), but McGwire?  Roid usage or not, his numbers certainly don't fall into the immortals category...

It is a museum not a place where all the good players go in because they did it right. Yeah it SAVED baseball because people were getting less and less interested in the game(even me) and the game was dying to football and even basketball. McGwire and even Sosa should be in a section about steroids but still be in it. That rivalry between the two gave something exciting to baseball something numbers cant describe. When i think of a museum i expect something of every era to be there good and bad. I dont want to go to a German WW2 history museum and not see anything about hitler or the holocaust Go to an American history museum and the Civil War isnt anywhere to be found. Keep thinking it should be all about good players that never cheat.. Youre erasing a part of history and brushing it under the rug. Wake the hell up its a museum.

Couldn't agree more.  Dave Kingman isn't, and shouldn't be. in the Hall...

Actually the Hall of Fame is a place where all the good players go who did it right.  If it wasn't, it wouldn't exactly be so exclusive and Mario Mendoza would be honored there for hitting .198 in '79 and allowing George Brett to coin the phrase, "Mendoza Line."  

While comparing McGwire and Sosa to Hitler the Holocaust is a little extreme, you don't exactly see the latter in a museum for their positive contribution.  Rather you see Hitler in a museum for the wrongs he committed in hopes it will never be repeated.  So fine, put McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Palmeiro, Clemens, A-Rod, and all the rest in a Hall of Shame.  But unless their numbers warrant it (and again, McGwire's don't imho) they have no place in the Baseball Hall of Fame for their illicit actions!

So I suggest you "wake the hell up", because glorifying cheating should never be considered something to be "honored."

Actually, The Hall is both a museum and somwhat of a "shrine" for the players who did it clean.  It does have flaws. That's why it's official name is the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum.   You will see Pete Rose's records and stats in the museum, as well as Roger Clemons and Mark McQuire's events.  As are the Chicago Black Socks.  The history of the game is well represented.  Good and Bad.  The arguement that rages here is, and should be about what players we honor as the "greatest of all time"  That seperate area of the building holds the plaques for the men who contributed to the Game above and beyond "mediocrity" and without "cheating", or at least it should be.  It is not the "Hall of OK". Like Mr. McQuire.  I think too many people dismiss the Hall as just a museum.   There are, as the in the game itself, errors and flaws in judgement.  Ty Cobb was a horrible human being, but an unbelievable ballplayer.  You get the point.
So, here's my take on Alex:
He is a pathetically flawed human being.  The decision as to whether he belongs in the Hall is moot.  We must wait to see his entire body of work in the game, before we condemn his skills.  Does he belong in the museum? Absolutely.  He is a part of the game's history, like it or not. Like him, or not.  When and if, the other allegations of his actions are proven, then the public, his employers and his teammates can take the appropriate action.  And yes, tipping pitches to the opposition is right on the line with throwing a game.  Unlike any other sport, there is no clock in baseball.  Therefore, a team can win no matter how many runs down they are until the 27th out is recorded.  So Alex, if he did this thing, has certainly committed another breach of trust, and dare I say, an error that could and maybe should get him some severe punishment.

Hall of fames motto "Preserving History, Honoring Excellence, Connecting Generations" Now, looking at that I do not believe they should be on the same wall as the others and i never said they should...something you seem to have assumed, but they deserve to be in the museum and Hall of Fame to an extent.

Awesome how you conviently left out my other comparison the Civil War. I was not comparing hitler to baseball. Nice try on trying to misinterpret the meaning of that. BUT It is a black mark on history just like hitler was to germany and it was AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY SOMETHING THAT CAN NOT GO ERASED. You want your grand children to learn about just the good part of the past then so be it but they will be forever ignorant of the truth behind baseball from the 1990s-2000's. They are the best of their time excluding Mcgwire for being more mediocre but the rest were the best from their time. And guess what THEY WERENT THE ONLY ONES CHEATING everybody was and they rose to the top.

Yes they deserve to be in the hall of fame because it was the best of that era and you are easily sweeping 10-20 years under the rug because of what you think is right.

Positive contribution? Ok lets mention one guy that was clearly the opposite of a role model. Babe Ruth...the beloved... was a drunk during prohibition. Broke the law everyday yet you immortalize him as the great bambino and dont take into account he constantly had character issues like skipping out on team rules to drink. And now people are throwing A-rod under the bus for doing the same stupid crap RUTH DID(Madonna and to an extent an illegal substance: alchohol for ruth, roids for arod). Its hypocritical to say Ruth deserves to be in the HOF when he was a terrible role model outside of baseball and perhaps in. Yes i said it. Great player right? So is arod, clemens and co. again for their time.

That what im saying the HOF is indeed a museum but these guys should have their own wall but be honored for what they did in such an era whether it was done right or not because you cant predict what would have... so of now the facts are the facts. They should be in that building.

 OK fine, put their juiced home run balls and their syringes in there on the Wall of Shame, but they did nothing that was honorable, therefore they don't deserve a place of honor in the Baseball Hall of Fame!

And btw, Babe Ruth didn't break the law every day, since drinking, overeating, and sleeping with anything that moved wasn't illegal (OK drinking was technically illegal during Prohibition, though it was manufacturing of alcohol that was banned, not really consumption).  Either way, it certainly didn't give him a competitive advantage, unlike say...STEROID USE ( you know, using illegally obtained, prescription drugs to do something they weren't meant for, i.e. enhancing an already healthy physique)!

Tipping pitches? C'mon! Who has ever even heard of that? Human sheep! So easily lead... to believe that Bonds, A Rod and the rest that have been caught are the only ones? That's crazy and naive at best. Chances are your favorite player in almost every "professional" sport has taken something at sometime. I may be a cynic but I'm pretty sure I'm not completely wrong. Nobody really knows who did what when. It's a different game. A Rod isn't Mantle and Bonds isn't Ruth. They never could be. It's a brave new world.

Oh I agree with that type of "honor"

I believe the purchasing of alcohol was illegal as well. But A-rod did have a mistress and the people using that against him are usually ones who either A) dont really know the real Babe Ruth or B) Hypocritical and close minded.  Let's be honest if the "prestigious" men of the law did their job without being corrupt they would have had proof to put Babe Ruth in jail and he could have never had that famous HR where he pointed in center field prior to the at bat. Glad you agree, sorry if i led you to a different conclusion such as on the wall with all the great players that did it right. My apologies.

Youre right cause A-rod and Bonds are better than Ruth was and could ever be. Ruth wouldnt last a day in the MLB today. And im sure Bonds would be running laps around those players back then. Nothing against them but dont try to be some self-righeous heroic speaker to make them indestructable gods compared to a-rod and bonds as players. They had flaws and so does A-rod and Bonds but all in all... these two players were better in HS... again no disrespect to Ruth and Mantle.

Don't miss my point Turk.  If he belongs in on the Wall in the HOF because of the body of his baseball work, then put him there.  I could not care less about a player's personal life, nor what kind of creep a player may have been. If it turns out that A-Rod was the best of his time, get him a plaque.  If it turns out he was a one hit wonder and does nothing for the rest of his career, then put the story in the museum, and forget the plaque.

I don't see how. A personality isn't left in the dugout or in a bullpen or outside of a stadium. Ron Artest is an asshole off the court and brings that with him to a court, so why wouldn't A-Rod bring that same scumbag attitude of his onto a field? I mean, he has shown instances of disrespecting this game and its rules by swatting balls out of gloves to try and reach base safely, or am I the only one who remembers that?

That's his personality reflecting itself on the field in the worst manner because it cames off as bush league. And of course you're taking into account his personality on the field - the steroid issue is an off-field affair that affects his on-field presence to the game. You can't tell me that isn't a personality issue surfacing on the field when it was his personal decision to take a substance that has an affect on his performance on the field.