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2/9/09
Alex Rodriguez Steroid Scandal And The Image Of Basball
Steroids, Performance Enhancing Drugs, And The Image Of Baseball
For years now we have listened to the ole heads ramble on about the pureness and goodness of baseball. You know the narrated story of the boy playing sandlot baseball and going to the ballpark with his dad. With the hot dogs, peanuts, the organ playing and the stadium announcer calling the plays. We as fans "sometimes" have this Norman Rockwell image of just what baseball should be, instead of what it really is.

Baseball has been around a long time. There have been many changes in the world that have had an affect on this sport. Two World Wars, The Great Depression, gambling scandals and players strikes. There have also been good things like racial integration, players unions (retirement plans) United Way and other charities that include community involvement.

Now we have this question of steroids and HGH and what to do about them. We also have this other matter of ethics to deal with: Is it a mortal (baseball) sin to use performance enhancing drugs? If these drugs were available to ball players in 1925, do you think baseball would have had a problem with fans calling out their heroes for cheating? The real problem is the fact that someone invented these drugs in the first place and they've been rather readily available. I hope it's not a shock to you, but steroids were available in my high school in the mid 1970's. So they had to be available at the professional level of sports before then even.

There have always been performance enhancing drugs in sports. They might not have been steroids but cocaine or amphetamines (known as greenies among baseball players). Heck, there's even a ridiculously high rate of players these days who have prescriptions for ADHD, which is obviously not because they need it, but because they're using it as an edge to concentrate.

I think that some of those who have used these drugs may have started out thinking that it was a new - but not illegal - innovation that would give them an edge. But by the time the 1990's came around, it became that involvement of any kind of performance enhancing drugs somehow had to be deliberate and malicious in nature, rather than innovative. So there is no sympathy for anyone currently playing the game to be using performance enhancing drugs.

So let me get this straight. Now we find out about A-Rod, testing positive for steroids, six years after the fact, and there were no disciplinary standards set in place for them at that time of the test.

Right?  

This was supposed to be a survey test that took place in 2003 and was intended to be nondisciplinary and anonymous.

Right?

SI should be sued for defamation of character, not that I am an A-Rod fan. I could care less about the fall-out gossip from the Steroid era. It's become more like the McCarthy Era with ballplayers being blacklisted for getting close to some sacred record, as it brings out the bias and hate that is cloaked behind what some ole heads image of baseball should be.

The biggest question is going to be not where it stopped, but where it started. Who was the first baseball player to use steroids? This is where we must draw that line in the sand and say: The Steroid Era began here and from this point forward, until a full ban is in place, all baseball records will be marked with an asterisk.

Bud Selig should step up to the microphone and show the baseball world that he does have a backbone and ban all performance enhancing drugs. If he can't do that then he should do the decent thing and step down as baseball commissioner.

That's pretty much my opinion on the topic of steroids. What's yours?
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2/9/09
6
Cheating has been going in Baseball since it began.  Does anybody remember the spit ball?  Are we going to go back and rewrite the record books for the pitchers before the spit ball was banned?  What about pine tar?  Are we going to rewrite the books because players used too much pine tar (see George Brett)  What about corked bats?  

Gaylord  Perry was infamos for doctoring the ball while playing in the major leagues.  He doctored the ball with vasoline or just mucked it up.

Heck what about runners on base that steal signs from the catcher, and give them to the batter.  Isnt this cheating.  Lets not forget to mention ground crews that fix the field according to certain pitchers.  For example, if a sinker ball pitcher is pitching, then dont be surpised if the grass is a little bit higher to slow down ground balls. Also, a generation of ground keepers have doctored the field for years.  Emil Bossard would move back the portable fences as a Cleveland Indians' groudskeeper to nullify the distinct power advantage that the Yankees had. Then his son, Gene, would take it a step further. He would "freeze" balls, keeping them in a room with a humidifier for a period of almost two weeks, which would subsequently make them heavier and less likely to travel further than a normal ball. Then his son, Roger, was actually the one who made the basepaths softer and, thereby, harder to steal bases from and stretch long plays out for an extra base.

Cheating has occured in every generation of Baseball.  This generation of Baseball saw Steriods.  How does one change records for steriods when there were corked bats, "doctored balls", excess pine tar, corked bats, ground crews fixing the field?

2/9/09
2

Thank you for sharing your article with me.  You did a beautiful job of presentation and it made me see another side to this whole messy situation.  You also stated a very workable solution.  I will be looking forward to more of your input.  i agree with jacobmrley about that.

As to the asterisk, I like the idea of keeping that.. some things get forgotten.  This is not one that should be swept under the rug.  It is a part of baseball history, messy but still an important part to remember.  Hopefully it's a part we don't have to repeat.


2/9/09
1
WHO IS GOING TO SAVE BASEBALL???????

2/9/09
0
great post, check out this article from the Detroit Free Press "you can't call baseball a sport anymore"  I was skeptical because of the title, but its a good article

2/9/09
3
At this point what does it matter what these players do to their bodies.  They are playing a game for big money and no matter how bad the scandal, the fans will continue to show up.  As a father of two young boys all I can instill in them is that doing drugs of any kind is bad.  God gave you a certain amount of talent to play sports. Some people got more than others.  And the bottom line is no matter how many rules are in place someone will always try to cheat the system.

20 years from now, noone will remember what happened in 2003 or will they care.  Lets just enjoy the game for what it is.....a game!!!

2/9/09
2
I dont know that anyone can save baseball, I'm not really sure that it needs to be saved.

Baseball is a numbers game......its "the thinking mans sport" and they put all of the numbers on a pedistal. (sp?)

Everyone is just going to have to get used to the fact that you never know which numbers are real anymore, or which ones have been touched by the steroid era.  I thought of a solution......have a seperate record book. one for 1900-1999 and another one for 2000- and on. But that doesnt even work, because McGuire and Sosa were juicin in 97-98. How would you even know when the steroid problem started. You wont, until you have everyone who has ever taken the roids to admit to it, and find out when the first ever juicer was doing it. That would be like finding a needle in a haystack

2/9/09
3
God I cant stand baseball.

2/9/09
4
Superbleeder wrote:
God I cant stand baseball.
why? Because of the game, or because of what certain athletes have done to the game?

2/9/09
3
Baseball has always had a history of cheating.  As Brendan said, "the thinking man's sport," but the thinking involved is what does it take to get ahead?  From the Black Sox Scandal to doctoring baseballs to corking bats to betting on the game's outcomes to steroids and subsequently lying to Congress and the Feds.  This is baseball as we all know it, and it's naive to think that the climate will change overnight.  Bud Selig has been behind it all for quite some time now, and change needs to first start at the top.  The game needs a complete overhaul to be seen that legitimate change is underway, but the fans are still going to show up either way.

2/9/09
1
Brendanc8504 wrote:
why? Because of the game, or because of what certain athletes have done to the game?
I think its boring and slow.  I can only stand to watch Football, Basketball and Nascar.

2/9/09
4
Raider_Dave wrote:
Baseball has always had a history of cheating.  As Brendan said, "the thinking man's sport," but the thinking involved is what does it take to get ahead?  From the Black Sox Scandal to doctoring baseballs to corking bats to betting on the game's outcomes to steroids and subsequently lying to Congress and the Feds.  This is baseball as we all know it, and it's naive to think that the climate will change overnight.  Bud Selig has been behind it all for quite some time now, and change needs to first start at the top.  The game needs a complete overhaul to be seen that legitimate change is underway, but the fans are still going to show up either way.
the fans have walked away from the game before. and this could have been something that made us leave again.

People spend hard earned money on seats, merchandise, clothing, crazy prices for beer and food, and the strike pushed the fans over the edge and they walked away.

What brought the fans back? The homerun race of 98'. Come to find out that was between 2 guys that were on roids. Are you kidding me? Nothing has changed! I'm still paying my hard earned money and im gonna watch you cheat your way through the record books? This could have been catastrophic for baseball! Whats next!? Change needs to come. we thought it did in 98....but to quote Aerosmith its "the same old song and dance"

2/9/09
2
Brendanc8504 wrote:
the fans have walked away from the game before. and this could have been something that made us leave again.

People spend hard earned money on seats, merchandise, clothing, crazy prices for beer and food, and the strike pushed the fans over the edge and they walked away.

What brought the fans back? The homerun race of 98'. Come to find out that was between 2 guys that were on roids. Are you kidding me? Nothing has changed! I'm still paying my hard earned money and im gonna watch you cheat your way through the record books? This could have been catastrophic for baseball! Whats next!? Change needs to come. we thought it did in 98....but to quote Aerosmith its "the same old song and dance"
I think the only real thing that will hurt the game is the economy.  Attendance and viewership for the last few years has set record after record.  Now I think the soap opera of it all is what brings the casual fans to the parks.  Otherwise, the true fans and the traditionalists will keep on coming no matter what.  A game that is essentially based on cheating has managed to keep the fanbase, and it's stories like the Tampa Bay Rays and the Philadelphia Phillies, the rivalries of the Red Sox an Yankees, and big stars like Manny having a rejuvination in LA that will keep everyone's interest piqued.

2/9/09
3
Raider_Dave wrote:
I think the only real thing that will hurt the game is the economy.  Attendance and viewership for the last few years has set record after record.  Now I think the soap opera of it all is what brings the casual fans to the parks.  Otherwise, the true fans and the traditionalists will keep on coming no matter what.  A game that is essentially based on cheating has managed to keep the fanbase, and it's stories like the Tampa Bay Rays and the Philadelphia Phillies, the rivalries of the Red Sox an Yankees, and big stars like Manny having a rejuvination in LA that will keep everyone's interest piqued.
I can agree with that. I have so much love for the game that there is very little that could happen that would make me walk away. It would be the casual fans that I would worry about.

Good for me and you though, if the casual fans stop showing up I can actually buy a ticket at face value.

Haha im tired of paying 3 times or higher then face value on stubhub

2/9/09
4
and poor Pete Rose...all he did was gamble...the rest of them are all cheaters at baseball itself with self performing steroids...pathetic...and the Yankees have really excelled (ha ha) with the takeover of Steinbrenner's astute (lol) sons

2/9/09
3
coolkraft2003 wrote:
and poor Pete Rose...all he did was gamble...the rest of them are all cheaters at baseball itself with self performing steroids...pathetic...and the Yankees have really excelled (ha ha) with the takeover of Steinbrenner's astute (lol) sons
alll he did was gamble. lol u dont know if he managed to win or lose. he cheated worse than the steroid guys.at least with taking steroids ur trying to win. pete rose was jus tryin to fill his pockets wit money. he may have said he never managed to lose. but he also said he never bet on baseball either

2/9/09
3
coolkraft2003 wrote:
and poor Pete Rose...all he did was gamble...the rest of them are all cheaters at baseball itself with self performing steroids...pathetic...and the Yankees have really excelled (ha ha) with the takeover of Steinbrenner's astute (lol) sons
I said that the other day. its time to put the crap behind us and let pete rose in the hall where he belongs. Its bullcrap that he cant get in for making a few wagers, while others juice and are not banned

2/9/09
2
Brendanc8504 wrote:
I can agree with that. I have so much love for the game that there is very little that could happen that would make me walk away. It would be the casual fans that I would worry about.

Good for me and you though, if the casual fans stop showing up I can actually buy a ticket at face value.

Haha im tired of paying 3 times or higher then face value on stubhub
As an A's fan, I don't have to worry about that at all...and I'm kind of sad about that because of what it ultimately means.  Being in Boston a time or two, I definitely know what you mean though.  Either way, I'm still looking forward to the season.  Good luck to your Sox this year, I wish the A's had the money to execute the Moneyball philosophy that well.

2/9/09
1
Brendanc8504 wrote:
I said that the other day. its time to put the crap behind us and let pete rose in the hall where he belongs. Its bullcrap that he cant get in for making a few wagers, while others juice and are not banned
Especially since no one will even come close to his 4,000+ hits record.  Gambling is a terrible thing, but his ban from baseball shouldn't include even a quiet induction into the Hall of Fame.  It would incite quite the    s#$%storm, but the bigger injustice is him being left out completely.

2/9/09
6
I am SO tired of two arguments when it comes to this issue:
#1~ "well it was illegal in '03 but it wasn't banned by the MLB"
WTF!!!  Are you kidding me?  Are we really having this conversation?  Chopping your wife's head off and putting it on a baseball tee isn't banned by MLB either, do you think we should do/allow it?
#2~"well no matter what you do people are going to find a way to cheat"
Maybe so, but when they are caught they should be given the pete rose treatment!  We can't just shrug it off and say "everybody is doing it".

2/9/09
1
The A's also have a huge ballyard though. Fenway is one of the smallest, if not the smallest venues in the game. Which makes no sense because it has one of the largest fan bases. This being the main reason why you see so many sox fans at road games....they have no other choice!

I'm pumped for the season to. Good luck to the A's and heres hoping that we both get out the old ball yards at least a few times this season

2/9/09
3
 The steroid happenings have definately ruined baseball...it sucks to see this happening and unfortunately,they wont be able to stop it.....there will be new drugs......as time goes on....and its just a shame that it s come to this...especially when records are broken that some thought would never be broken....so u put an asterisk by a guys name....big deal....the name shouldnt even be on the list.........and the real record breakers should be back up there....this will carry on for many many more years and they will never stop it......the game has definately been ruined IMO

2/9/09
1
Brendanc8504 wrote:
The A's also have a huge ballyard though. Fenway is one of the smallest, if not the smallest venues in the game. Which makes no sense because it has one of the largest fan bases. This being the main reason why you see so many sox fans at road games....they have no other choice!

I'm pumped for the season to. Good luck to the A's and heres hoping that we both get out the old ball yards at least a few times this season
The A's play in a football stadium, and the Sox play in a park meant for a fanbase number that was planned for over 50 years ago, but Fenway is a great venue if not only for historical purposes.  The A's are planning to build a park that is a bit more in line with what Fenway is though, hopefully the economy doesn't screw that up too.  But hopefully we can both make it out to some games, and hopefully the A's and Sox can continue to play each other tough this season.

2/9/09
0
 This is a good example of why I have long lost interest in baseball. I think Bud Selig was very much out to lunch and didn't care about the steroids as long as records were in danger of being broken.

2/9/09
3
JHOLE wrote:
I am SO tired of two arguments when it comes to this issue:
#1~ "well it was illegal in '03 but it wasn't banned by the MLB"
WTF!!!  Are you kidding me?  Are we really having this conversation?  Chopping your wife's head off and putting it on a baseball tee isn't banned by MLB either, do you think we should do/allow it?
#2~"well no matter what you do people are going to find a way to cheat"
Maybe so, but when they are caught they should be given the pete rose treatment!  We can't just shrug it off and say "everybody is doing it".
great point.

And as I said before you have to make an example out of them. WEEI posed a question thismorning.

"If you knew there were 100 murderers lose in your city, and you only caught 3 of them......do you let those 3 back on the streets because you couldnt find the other 97? NO! You punish the ones that you catch!"

So I myself am also sick and tired of the argument that you cant punish A-rod because there are others out there who havent been caught. Ok, well sometimes you get away with murder. But Arod doing roids is like if Obama starting doing lines in the oval office. Your in the spotlight! Your gonna get caught!

2/9/09
1
Bud Selig needs to step down immediatly, the players union needs to be decertified immediatly, all pro baseball players need to be tested and if the test comes up positive they need to be banned immediatly. as i have said before playing pro sports is a priviledge not a right. The integrity of the game is more important than any one individual and needs to be restored.....immediatly.....jmo

2/9/09
2
Raider_Dave wrote:
Baseball has always had a history of cheating.  As Brendan said, "the thinking man's sport," but the thinking involved is what does it take to get ahead?  From the Black Sox Scandal to doctoring baseballs to corking bats to betting on the game's outcomes to steroids and subsequently lying to Congress and the Feds.  This is baseball as we all know it, and it's naive to think that the climate will change overnight.  Bud Selig has been behind it all for quite some time now, and change needs to first start at the top.  The game needs a complete overhaul to be seen that legitimate change is underway, but the fans are still going to show up either way.
I think you said it best for me.  There has ALWAYS been cheating in baseball, of some kind.  This is just the latest in a long hstory of cheating.  I don't think we will ever know how far back it was and who was the first juicer, so how can you identify some, while you don't know others? We can't go back and test the dead guys,  Better to go on from here. Ban it and if you are caught juicin from here on in, NONE of your records will count.   Step up to the plate and play it clean. 

2/9/09
6
Cheating has been going in Baseball since it began.  Does anybody remember the spit ball?  Are we going to go back and rewrite the record books for the pitchers before the spit ball was banned?  What about pine tar?  Are we going to rewrite the books because players used too much pine tar (see George Brett)  What about corked bats?  

Gaylord  Perry was infamos for doctoring the ball while playing in the major leagues.  He doctored the ball with vasoline or just mucked it up.

Heck what about runners on base that steal signs from the catcher, and give them to the batter.  Isnt this cheating.  Lets not forget to mention ground crews that fix the field according to certain pitchers.  For example, if a sinker ball pitcher is pitching, then dont be surpised if the grass is a little bit higher to slow down ground balls. Also, a generation of ground keepers have doctored the field for years.  Emil Bossard would move back the portable fences as a Cleveland Indians' groudskeeper to nullify the distinct power advantage that the Yankees had. Then his son, Gene, would take it a step further. He would "freeze" balls, keeping them in a room with a humidifier for a period of almost two weeks, which would subsequently make them heavier and less likely to travel further than a normal ball. Then his son, Roger, was actually the one who made the basepaths softer and, thereby, harder to steal bases from and stretch long plays out for an extra base.

Cheating has occured in every generation of Baseball.  This generation of Baseball saw Steriods.  How does one change records for steriods when there were corked bats, "doctored balls", excess pine tar, corked bats, ground crews fixing the field?

2/9/09
2
JrCanuckFan wrote:
I think you said it best for me.  There has ALWAYS been cheating in baseball, of some kind.  This is just the latest in a long hstory of cheating.  I don't think we will ever know how far back it was and who was the first juicer, so how can you identify some, while you don't know others? We can't go back and test the dead guys,  Better to go on from here. Ban it and if you are caught juicin from here on in, NONE of your records will count.   Step up to the plate and play it clean. 
Exactly.  Hard to disagree with that solution.  Nip it in the butt (or the huge blubbery a$$ that MLB has let it become) the only way it can, which is years later and move on.  It is only making the game and the league look worse by dragging it through the mud, and it would be completely better (if not cost effective) to put it in the past and move on.  Threaten wiping the stat lines clean for guys with multiple strikes here on out, since most of the money made is from past performance, that seems like a fair and reasonable punishment.

2/9/09
2
phillydeac4life wrote:
Cheating has been going in Baseball since it began.  Does anybody remember the spit ball?  Are we going to go back and rewrite the record books for the pitchers before the spit ball was banned?  What about pine tar?  Are we going to rewrite the books because players used too much pine tar (see George Brett)  What about corked bats?  

Gaylord  Perry was infamos for doctoring the ball while playing in the major leagues.  He doctored the ball with vasoline or just mucked it up.

Heck what about runners on base that steal signs from the catcher, and give them to the batter.  Isnt this cheating.  Lets not forget to mention ground crews that fix the field according to certain pitchers.  For example, if a sinker ball pitcher is pitching, then dont be surpised if the grass is a little bit higher to slow down ground balls. Also, a generation of ground keepers have doctored the field for years.  Emil Bossard would move back the portable fences as a Cleveland Indians' groudskeeper to nullify the distinct power advantage that the Yankees had. Then his son, Gene, would take it a step further. He would "freeze" balls, keeping them in a room with a humidifier for a period of almost two weeks, which would subsequently make them heavier and less likely to travel further than a normal ball. Then his son, Roger, was actually the one who made the basepaths softer and, thereby, harder to steal bases from and stretch long plays out for an extra base.

Cheating has occured in every generation of Baseball.  This generation of Baseball saw Steriods.  How does one change records for steriods when there were corked bats, "doctored balls", excess pine tar, corked bats, ground crews fixing the field?
Great comment................................This would have made a great blog post by it's self.

To answer your question at the end...........................I say we don't change these records. We just forever mark them as being from the Steroid era. Highlighted or printed on different color paper or just a simple asterisk with a notation at the bottom of the page.
From this day forward the penalty for performance enhancing drugs should be a lifetime ban from baseball. As opposed to the current weak and spineless rules.

2/9/09
2
Raider_Dave wrote:
Exactly.  Hard to disagree with that solution.  Nip it in the butt (or the huge blubbery a$$ that MLB has let it become) the only way it can, which is years later and move on.  It is only making the game and the league look worse by dragging it through the mud, and it would be completely better (if not cost effective) to put it in the past and move on.  Threaten wiping the stat lines clean for guys with multiple strikes here on out, since most of the money made is from past performance, that seems like a fair and reasonable punishment.
Its just so hard to say "i cant catch you for what you did in the past so your good just dont screw up again"

in theory your right that is pretty much what they have done and all they can do.......its just awful of the history of the past 10-15 years when you look back you are always going to have to wonder if the player was clean or not.

2/9/09
2
fremontguy26 wrote:
alll he did was gamble. lol u dont know if he managed to win or lose. he cheated worse than the steroid guys.at least with taking steroids ur trying to win. pete rose was jus tryin to fill his pockets wit money. he may have said he never managed to lose. but he also said he never bet on baseball either
All Pete Rose did was gamble to increase his wallet and the steroid guys didn't.  What planet are you from.  Steroids make muscle mass larger, the player gets stronger and puts up bigger numbers.  Those bigger numbers means extra millions in their pockets through renewed contracts.  Rose may have made a million through gambling, but steroid users earn 27 million a year through their fraudulent actions.  Rose is a saint compared to them.  If you dope a horse at the track and it breaks a record, they check to make sure its legitimate. If drugs are found, the horse is disqualified.  Why should players that doped be allowed to play and set records.  They too should be disqualified from playing, because the effects of steroids last years, not on one game and makes everything they do tarnished and falsified.

2/9/09
2
voiceofreason wrote:
All Pete Rose did was gamble to increase his wallet and the steroid guys didn't.  What planet are you from.  Steroids make muscle mass larger, the player gets stronger and puts up bigger numbers.  Those bigger numbers means extra millions in their pockets through renewed contracts.  Rose may have made a million through gambling, but steroid users earn 27 million a year through their fraudulent actions.  Rose is a saint compared to them.  If you dope a horse at the track and it breaks a record, they check to make sure its legitimate. If drugs are found, the horse is disqualified.  Why should players that doped be allowed to play and set records.  They too should be disqualified from playing, because the effects of steroids last years, not on one game and makes everything they do tarnished and falsified.
thats it right there, and that is the diference. Rose made bets, which effected his wallet not the game. Everyone was worried though because what if it did effect the game?

Roiders take medication that DO effect the game, THEN effect the wallet. MLB knows about this, but does nothing.

LET PETE IN THE HALL NOW!

2/9/09
1
MLB put in rules back in 1991 that stated performance enhancing drugs were illegal.  Now, we have cases where 104 players were tested positive in 2003 or twelve years later for anabolic steroids or performance enhancing drugs.  If Selig had any respect for the game and did his job as commissioner, he would have instantly suspended all 104 players and banned them from the game.  That would have sent a loud message through the many tiers of baseball that doping is illegal and it costs you your career if you test positive. 
Whether Bonds holds the homerun record or Sosa and McGuire breaking the records of Roger Maris wouldn't be an issue now, markiing it with an asterisk, because those players would have been out of baseball in 2003.  We could have saved six years of A-fraud stories in the media, because he too would have been banned from the game with Pettite and Clemons.  The commissioner is at fault here because he wimped out on doing his job and allowed the whole affair to become festered and explode in the face of baseball.  Since 98, seven years after the fact, we have watched many records fall that stood for fifty years through illegal drug use and the commissioner is now trying to hide behind scandals he himself created in the first place.  If he wants to save face, since he is incompetent, he should say that all 104 players aren't eligible for the hall of fame and any records they hold revert back to the original holder, no asterisk, no scandal.  He should also say anyone found guilty is immediately banned from the game.  Restore the dignity and faith of the fans, so we don't have to keep asking ourselves, was this player clean or is he a drug user every time they hit the ball. 

2/9/09
1
fremontguy26 wrote:
alll he did was gamble. lol u dont know if he managed to win or lose. he cheated worse than the steroid guys.at least with taking steroids ur trying to win. pete rose was jus tryin to fill his pockets wit money. he may have said he never managed to lose. but he also said he never bet on baseball either
Wait, wait, wait, wait!  "pete rose was jus tryin to fill his pockets wit money."

So A-Rod among others got paid nothing for their performance that was supposedly enhanced by steroids?  I guess they are on food stamps because of it right?  Is it just me, or is $250 million adequate padding for one's wallet and/or pockets?

2/9/09
2
Brendanc8504 wrote:
Its just so hard to say "i cant catch you for what you did in the past so your good just dont screw up again"

in theory your right that is pretty much what they have done and all they can do.......its just awful of the history of the past 10-15 years when you look back you are always going to have to wonder if the player was clean or not.
I think it's ultimately hypocritical of the fans to cheer it while it was going on, only to boo and chastise the players now.  When McGwire and Canseco were bashing homeruns in the 90's for the A's, everyone knew there had to be something going on, but loved the show they put on.  I think the same goes with everyone else.  Sosa and McGwire put on the greatest baseball show ever in '98, and everyone absolutely loved it.  Some say it saved the game.  For us to be a little disgusted by it now, that's natural.  But for us to feel that the players are any more terrible for it now is just as shameful as them for doing what they did.  After all, it is an entertainment business first, and a sports competition second.

2/9/09
1
Back in 1919, players from the White Sox were disgusted with the treatment they received from the owner at the time, how did they respond, they threw the world series through bribes.  The commissioner at the time make gambling illegal and banned the players involved, or even players suspected of taking bribes.  That was the last time you heard about the scandal until Pete Rose was found guilty of betting on games.  The commissioner at the time reacted responsibly and banned him immediately.  Now we have steroids becoming illegal in 1991.  104 players are found guilty in 2003 for drug use and betting on baseball through improved strength and durability to play the game.  Something that was made illegal 12 years earlier.  What does the commissioner do?  NOTHING.  He allows them to continue playing each day, mocking the lifetime bans on the players of 1919 and also the Pete Rose ban.
He is sending out two messages to the youth.  First, don't bet on a game or you are banned, and second, it is fine to use performance enhancing drugs and don't worry if you are caught.  We won't punish you for betting on the outcome of each at bat because you are a superstar and that justifies your actions.  He is also telling the paying public, don't worry about your superstars on the team.  We will allow them to keep playing, as long as they can set new records to make the commissioners office look good and pad the wallets of the owners, making the game that much more lucrative for our own bank accounts.  Who cares about how players set records,  we will reward them with million dollar contracts, their name in the record books, and ultimately, we will put their plaques in the hall of fame to tell the world, yes you can cheat and abuse your body and no one cares.  Just remember though that you can't make a paper bet or we will nail you for it and ban you for life.  And people wonder why sports is so screwed up, when double standards are displayed daily.

2/9/09
2
thats the bottom line. pete rose bet on baseball and padded his wallet. and while juicers of today put more money in the pockets of themselves by getting longerterm deals worth more money, but it also makes the owners money, which makes the franchises more money, which makes the sponsers more money......holy crap.

New theory. The entire world is fueled by evil. it really is when you think about it

2/9/09
0
The whole competitive sports world has this going on. There are High School kids juicing to get scholarships to big colleges. Until these leagues fork over the money for random testing it will stay that way.

2/9/09
1
and he was supposed to be one the the good guys....  join the club A-Rod....  ****tainted*****

2/9/09
2
cgallon, I dont think you need to test in highschool.....i do think there should be testing at the college level to avoid these problems reaching the bigs.......and it should be a claus in the contract of a college that in order for you to get this scholarship you need to pass a drug dest. that should cut back some of the problem at the younger level

2/9/09
2
Are you kidding me ... These alums hand out free jobs, cars, 100 dollar hand shakes ... you think a drug test is a way to stop the problem? Its all about money. And these kids will do anything to make it.  Offer me a quarter of a million a year for 4-5 years i would do it too.

2/9/09
1
"in order for you to get this scholarship you need to pass a drug dest."
 
That would be a very wise step, the only factor would be the privacy of minor's and the fact that in most cases, their records are sealed.  However, the fact that an immediate contract isn't upcoming may make this a moot point.  Sure they could pass it now, but as son as $$ enters the picture, athletes would probably do just about anything, as is shown with so many baseball players.

2/9/09
1
DigitalSquire wrote:
Are you kidding me ... These alums hand out free jobs, cars, 100 dollar hand shakes ... you think a drug test is a way to stop the problem? Its all about money. And these kids will do anything to make it.  Offer me a quarter of a million a year for 4-5 years i would do it too.
"These alums hand out free jobs, cars, 100 dollar hand shakes"

*Ahem...allegedly*

2/9/09
1
Raider_Dave wrote:
"in order for you to get this scholarship you need to pass a drug dest."
 
That would be a very wise step, the only factor would be the privacy of minor's and the fact that in most cases, their records are sealed.  However, the fact that an immediate contract isn't upcoming may make this a moot point.  Sure they could pass it now, but as son as $$ enters the picture, athletes would probably do just about anything, as is shown with so many baseball players.

you have to pass a drug test to get a job at Walmart and that isn't considered an invasion of privacy. In my job i have the possibility of being tested anytime that management gets an itch. I have no problem with random testing at any level....no one is forcing these people to play the game.....


2/9/09
2
Aledgedly??? Come on ... I went to Ohio State for 2 years ... Cris Carter was driving a Trans-am ... bought by whom? His Mom? *chuckle*

2/9/09
1
DigitalSquire wrote:
Aledgedly??? Come on ... I went to Ohio State for 2 years ... Cris Carter was driving a Trans-am ... bought by whom? His Mom? *chuckle*
LOL

2/9/09
1
Raider_Dave wrote:
I think the only real thing that will hurt the game is the economy.  Attendance and viewership for the last few years has set record after record.  Now I think the soap opera of it all is what brings the casual fans to the parks.  Otherwise, the true fans and the traditionalists will keep on coming no matter what.  A game that is essentially based on cheating has managed to keep the fanbase, and it's stories like the Tampa Bay Rays and the Philadelphia Phillies, the rivalries of the Red Sox an Yankees, and big stars like Manny having a rejuvination in LA that will keep everyone's interest piqued.
Just a correction...  Viewership has been on a record pace, but not in the direction you are implying.  It is dropping at a record pace.  At least on a national level.  And that has nothing to do with steroids.

2/9/09
0
Brendanc8504 wrote:
The A's also have a huge ballyard though. Fenway is one of the smallest, if not the smallest venues in the game. Which makes no sense because it has one of the largest fan bases. This being the main reason why you see so many sox fans at road games....they have no other choice!

I'm pumped for the season to. Good luck to the A's and heres hoping that we both get out the old ball yards at least a few times this season
The A's may play in an NFL stadium, but since the A's have decided to tarp of nearly all of their upper deck, that place in 2007 had the smallest capacity in all the Majors.  Fewer than even Fenway.  The proposed new yard in Fremont still has a capacity smaller than Fenway.  Just sayin'.

2/9/09
0
phillydeac4life wrote:
Cheating has been going in Baseball since it began.  Does anybody remember the spit ball?  Are we going to go back and rewrite the record books for the pitchers before the spit ball was banned?  What about pine tar?  Are we going to rewrite the books because players used too much pine tar (see George Brett)  What about corked bats?  

Gaylord  Perry was infamos for doctoring the ball while playing in the major leagues.  He doctored the ball with vasoline or just mucked it up.

Heck what about runners on base that steal signs from the catcher, and give them to the batter.  Isnt this cheating.  Lets not forget to mention ground crews that fix the field according to certain pitchers.  For example, if a sinker ball pitcher is pitching, then dont be surpised if the grass is a little bit higher to slow down ground balls. Also, a generation of ground keepers have doctored the field for years.  Emil Bossard would move back the portable fences as a Cleveland Indians' groudskeeper to nullify the distinct power advantage that the Yankees had. Then his son, Gene, would take it a step further. He would "freeze" balls, keeping them in a room with a humidifier for a period of almost two weeks, which would subsequently make them heavier and less likely to travel further than a normal ball. Then his son, Roger, was actually the one who made the basepaths softer and, thereby, harder to steal bases from and stretch long plays out for an extra base.

Cheating has occured in every generation of Baseball.  This generation of Baseball saw Steriods.  How does one change records for steriods when there were corked bats, "doctored balls", excess pine tar, corked bats, ground crews fixing the field?
Possibly the sharpest take on this subject I have read yet.

2/9/09
1
evilquacks101 wrote:
Great comment................................This would have made a great blog post by it's self.

To answer your question at the end...........................I say we don't change these records. We just forever mark them as being from the Steroid era. Highlighted or printed on different color paper or just a simple asterisk with a notation at the bottom of the page.
From this day forward the penalty for performance enhancing drugs should be a lifetime ban from baseball. As opposed to the current weak and spineless rules.
Dang...  Other drug penalties don't bring with them an immediate lifetime ban.  The current steroid punishments are actually quite harsh.  50 games for first offense, 100 for a 2nd, and lifetime ban for a 3rd.  I honestly do not see a problem with that.  In fact, a case could be made the current punishment plan is way too heavy.

2/9/09
0
voiceofreason wrote:
All Pete Rose did was gamble to increase his wallet and the steroid guys didn't.  What planet are you from.  Steroids make muscle mass larger, the player gets stronger and puts up bigger numbers.  Those bigger numbers means extra millions in their pockets through renewed contracts.  Rose may have made a million through gambling, but steroid users earn 27 million a year through their fraudulent actions.  Rose is a saint compared to them.  If you dope a horse at the track and it breaks a record, they check to make sure its legitimate. If drugs are found, the horse is disqualified.  Why should players that doped be allowed to play and set records.  They too should be disqualified from playing, because the effects of steroids last years, not on one game and makes everything they do tarnished and falsified.
Sorry.  Rose wagered on games involving his own team.  Worse yet, he was the manager.  This is 100 times worse than anything any steroid user does because it actually affected the outcome of games.  At best, steroid users recover from injuries a bit faster.  You really think that players returning from injuries quicker is a greater sin than managing games you yourself are betting on?  Are you kidding me?

2/9/09
1
(Edited by Raider_Dave)
ML31 wrote:
Just a correction...  Viewership has been on a record pace, but not in the direction you are implying.  It is dropping at a record pace.  At least on a national level.  And that has nothing to do with steroids.
Headline and link for attendance article:

MLB sees strong attendance figures

Second-highest totals ever; seven clubs set new marks

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081001&content_id=3578763&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb


2/9/09
0
Brendanc8504 wrote:
thats it right there, and that is the diference. Rose made bets, which effected his wallet not the game. Everyone was worried though because what if it did effect the game?

Roiders take medication that DO effect the game, THEN effect the wallet. MLB knows about this, but does nothing.

LET PETE IN THE HALL NOW!
Oh yeah.  Rose was the manager but his betting didn't affect how he managed the game right?  I guess he had too much respect for the game to make any kind of changes.  He never once thought about holding a pitcher back one day so he could be available for a game he bet on as opposed to one he didn't, right?  Get real.  Rose TOTALLY changed the games.  Far more than 10 steroid users ever could.

2/9/09
1
ML31 wrote:
The A's may play in an NFL stadium, but since the A's have decided to tarp of nearly all of their upper deck, that place in 2007 had the smallest capacity in all the Majors.  Fewer than even Fenway.  The proposed new yard in Fremont still has a capacity smaller than Fenway.  Just sayin'.
Yes and the A's have done that 1) to eliminate the loss of revenue created by staffing the upper decks while no seats were sold and 2) to illustrate the need for their new planned, smaller venue.  And while Fenway has expanded from 32,000 to 37,000 over the past 100 years, the A's proposed Cisco Field has an estimated capacity of 32,000, right in line for a new ballpark in a shared market.  Brendan and I were merely stating that both teams have two of the lower seat capacities in MLB, one because of Al Davis ruining a once great multi-purpose venue, and one because it is a staple of the history of the game.

2/9/09
0
voiceofreason wrote:
MLB put in rules back in 1991 that stated performance enhancing drugs were illegal.  Now, we have cases where 104 players were tested positive in 2003 or twelve years later for anabolic steroids or performance enhancing drugs.  If Selig had any respect for the game and did his job as commissioner, he would have instantly suspended all 104 players and banned them from the game.  That would have sent a loud message through the many tiers of baseball that doping is illegal and it costs you your career if you test positive. 
Whether Bonds holds the homerun record or Sosa and McGuire breaking the records of Roger Maris wouldn't be an issue now, markiing it with an asterisk, because those players would have been out of baseball in 2003.  We could have saved six years of A-fraud stories in the media, because he too would have been banned from the game with Pettite and Clemons.  The commissioner is at fault here because he wimped out on doing his job and allowed the whole affair to become festered and explode in the face of baseball.  Since 98, seven years after the fact, we have watched many records fall that stood for fifty years through illegal drug use and the commissioner is now trying to hide behind scandals he himself created in the first place.  If he wants to save face, since he is incompetent, he should say that all 104 players aren't eligible for the hall of fame and any records they hold revert back to the original holder, no asterisk, no scandal.  He should also say anyone found guilty is immediately banned from the game.  Restore the dignity and faith of the fans, so we don't have to keep asking ourselves, was this player clean or is he a drug user every time they hit the ball. 
Please be realistic.  MLB did indeed place those things on the banned list.  But the MLBPA refused to allow their members to be tested and fought it every time a new CBA was negotiated.  Selig can be blamed for destroying pennant races, screwing with the schedule and generally making MLB less popular, but he cannot be completely blamed for the steroid thing.  The bulk of the blame belongs squarely on the MLBPA for steadfastly refusing to allow testing of players.  The only reason the 2003 testing was done was on the condition the players remained anonymous.  They were also promised that there would be no punishment for any positive tests.  It was a test only to show how rampant steroid use was.  Nothing more.  It would be completely dishonest to turn around and renig on the arrangement.  Just wrong on so many levels.  You don't promise the informant immunity and then after he testifies turn around and charge him.  Deals don't work that way.

2/9/09
0
Raider_Dave wrote:
Headline and link for attendance article:

MLB sees strong attendance figures

Second-highest totals ever; seven clubs set new marks

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081001&content_id=3578763&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

I never said anything about attendance.  I said viewership is down.  As per this link   nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27462511/  and this one...  www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

Nationally, no one cares about baseball anymore.  This happened while Bud Selig was in charge.   Interest is down thanks to interleague play and the destruction of the pennant race and the extra long post season.

2/9/09
0
Raider_Dave wrote:
Yes and the A's have done that 1) to eliminate the loss of revenue created by staffing the upper decks while no seats were sold and 2) to illustrate the need for their new planned, smaller venue.  And while Fenway has expanded from 32,000 to 37,000 over the past 100 years, the A's proposed Cisco Field has an estimated capacity of 32,000, right in line for a new ballpark in a shared market.  Brendan and I were merely stating that both teams have two of the lower seat capacities in MLB, one because of Al Davis ruining a once great multi-purpose venue, and one because it is a staple of the history of the game.
They also have had such low attendance over they recent years that they opted to artificially create a scarcity of tickets with the hope that would create a bit more urgency to buy tickets ahead of time.  It hasn't worked all that well.  All it did for me was make me not go to a game in Oakland anymore.  I loved sitting in the upper deck.  I used to go to the $2 nights.  But I hate those down the line seats and will not sit there for $2.  Not after sitting right behind home plate in the 3rd deck.  And let's be honest, the Coliseum has never been good for baseball.  Ever.  And the one thing that made the place bearable was destroyed when they built Mt. Davis.

2/9/09
0
ML31 wrote:
I never said anything about attendance.  I said viewership is down.  As per this link   nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27462511/  and this one...  www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

Nationally, no one cares about baseball anymore.  This happened while Bud Selig was in charge.   Interest is down thanks to interleague play and the destruction of the pennant race and the extra long post season.
I care.    As do millions (billions ?) of others as well.     So, baseball's TV ratings are down.      They're not alone.    But they're still strong, and I think it's wrong to just shrug off the 'record attendance' figures as well.     Heck.....maybe that's why TV ratings are down.......more people are AT the games !!

Football has one advantage going for them, with regards to ratings.      Their games, for the most part, are on Sunday, a day that typically many people do not have to work.      Coupled with the fact that the weather changes during the football season, there are not as many outdoor activities & distractions that we face during the summer.     Add the fact that many people just want to drink & get hammered during football games on Sunday as well !      Plus, with all of the different ways to 'bet' on football too, such as fantasy & pick'em pools, more people have a vested interest in the NFL now.    

Football is rising in terms of popularity, but I'm sure baseball will survive.........it has through other, more treacherous times.     

2/9/09
0
Keeter wrote:
I care.    As do millions (billions ?) of others as well.     So, baseball's TV ratings are down.      They're not alone.    But they're still strong, and I think it's wrong to just shrug off the 'record attendance' figures as well.     Heck.....maybe that's why TV ratings are down.......more people are AT the games !!

Football has one advantage going for them, with regards to ratings.      Their games, for the most part, are on Sunday, a day that typically many people do not have to work.      Coupled with the fact that the weather changes during the football season, there are not as many outdoor activities & distractions that we face during the summer.     Add the fact that many people just want to drink & get hammered during football games on Sunday as well !      Plus, with all of the different ways to 'bet' on football too, such as fantasy & pick'em pools, more people have a vested interest in the NFL now.    

Football is rising in terms of popularity, but I'm sure baseball will survive.........it has through other, more treacherous times.     
Not suggesting MLB won't survive.  The NHL survives with no one watching on a national level.  Also, I care as well.  But just because I care about baseball does not put me in the majority.  It puts me in groups that include you and other baseball fans.  But that just isn''t enough.  FOX has farmed more and more playoff games off to cable.  The ratings continue to drop at a pace much faster than nearly every other sport.  They do OK in their local markets.  But they have sacrificed their rightfull place as the #1 sport in America.  The NFL has overtaken them decades ago.  That gap has only gotten wider.  It seems to be only a matter of time before MLB becomes only slightly more signicant than the NHL.  If ratings are down because more people are at games, that is a VERY bad sign indeed.  Very bad. 

It's too bad those millions of billions of others who care don't watch the games you say they care about.  The nubmers all show this.

 
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