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2/7/09
Alex Rodriguez Tested Positive For Steroids During His 2003 MVP Run
Add Alex Rodriguez To The List* Of Players Who Wanted It Too Badly
READ MORE:
MLB, New York Yankees, Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez, Alex Rodriguez steroids, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids, Alex Rodriguez positive steroids, Alex Rodriguez anabolic steroids, Alex Rodriguez tests positive for anabolic steroid, Alex Rodriguez steroids Rangers, Alex Rodriguez MVP steroids, Alex Rodriguez juicing
by Pat more posts by author
56
Some might revel in the knowledge that Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids during his MVP run in 2003. Some might use it as another chance to bash him, whether by calling him A-Fraud, like his Yankee teammates, or attempt to discredit all of his accomplishments.

However, much like the Bonds test results, has it gotten to the point where many people simply don't care anymore. Every new revelation of steroid use is hardly even news anymore. It has gotten to the point where people aren't shocked by the news, but instead feel like they knew this was coming eventually.

For me, it's disappointing. As much as I love to rip the Yankees, this is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for. When Barry Bonds broke the all time home run record, everyone outside of San Francisco knew he was juicing. It was a sad day in sports when one of the most hallowed records in sports fell to someone who cheated to get it. The one saving grace, however, was that Alex Rodriguez had a chance to break it cleanly. So much for that.

The other issue that comes to mind is Jose Canseco. He claimed that Rodriguez took steroids years ago. Everyone laughed it off, but at this point, Canseco has been right. Every time, it seems. When should he start being regarded as a credible source? His claims have been as accurate as any drug test out there, and he appears to be more than willing to take anyone down anyone. Is it time to start taking Canseco seriously, and stop thinking of him as a desperate B-lister who's just desperate to keep his name relevant? He might be that, but his track record on this has been rather impressive so far.

With the revelation that A-Rod tested positive, there is no doubt whatsoever that this era will forever be marked with an asterisk, at least in the eyes of the public. From 2000-2007, there were 16 MVP awards given out between the AL and NL. 9 of them went to a player that was eventually linked to steroids. Jason Giambi, Miguel Tejada, Alex Rodriguez (3 times) and Barry Bonds (4 times). There's also 1996 and 1998 when Ken Caminiti and Sammy Sosa won MVP's. There are also, of course, Roger Clemens' 4 Cy Young awards since 1997. Whether or not steroid use is ever proven to have a positive influence on a player's performance, the circumstances appear to hint that it's true. With so many awards going to players who were juicing, it appears to be undeniable that it DOES affect performance, and does indeed enhance it.

In 6-7 more years, Alex Rodriguez might break Barry Bonds' all time record for home runs. Unfortunately, it won't mean anything once again. Instead of being a symbol of clean athletes being able to overcome the efforts of those who cheated to boost their accomplishments, it will simply be one cheater beating out another.

This should be a fun year for Rodriguez. As if there weren't enough things for opposing fans (and even Yankees fans) to harass him about, here's one more thing that they can put in their repertoire. Madonna, A-Fraud, steroids... this will be a wonderful year for A-Rod haters.


Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003 [CNNSI]
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2/7/09
12
Honestly, this whole thing is pointless.  Everyone did it so it wasn't much of an advantage for anyone.  We know little names, intermediate names, and big names did it.  It made no difference on performance, it was just something that they had to do to keep up.  Now they've probably moved on to the next product that we'll find out about too late.  Its never going to change, the "cheaters" will always be one step ahead.

2/7/09
12
Honestly, this whole thing is pointless.  Everyone did it so it wasn't much of an advantage for anyone.  We know little names, intermediate names, and big names did it.  It made no difference on performance, it was just something that they had to do to keep up.  Now they've probably moved on to the next product that we'll find out about too late.  Its never going to change, the "cheaters" will always be one step ahead.

2/7/09
4
kantwistaye wrote:
Honestly, this whole thing is pointless.  Everyone did it so it wasn't much of an advantage for anyone.  We know little names, intermediate names, and big names did it.  It made no difference on performance, it was just something that they had to do to keep up.  Now they've probably moved on to the next product that we'll find out about too late.  Its never going to change, the "cheaters" will always be one step ahead.
Stop saying things better than I can (see the original thread).

2/7/09
3
He belongs on the Yankees

2/7/09
2
Sports news has to be one of the most durable things known to man.   It took this story 6 years to break!  Makes me wonder how much it bent before it broke?   

2/7/09
2
 Not a shock. His image is tainted no matter what arguments are thrown out there. That was just the era of baseball players like him were apart of. The juiced era. Just like the dead ball era. It's all pretty relative statistically. It's a shame for the kids who look up to these athletes. But it's a business, and these guys are willing to sacrifice their bodies to make it big. Honor is in the dollar for a lot of these guys.

2/7/09
0
kantwistaye wrote:
Honestly, this whole thing is pointless.  Everyone did it so it wasn't much of an advantage for anyone.  We know little names, intermediate names, and big names did it.  It made no difference on performance, it was just something that they had to do to keep up.  Now they've probably moved on to the next product that we'll find out about too late.  Its never going to change, the "cheaters" will always be one step ahead.

Jose Canseco had written in his book that A-Rod was a steroid user so this should come as no surprise, although i was hoping that Canseco was wrong.  Now lets see if A-Rod is a better man than Bonds and Clemens by admitting that he did take steroids.

2/7/09
0
The whole situation is pretty disgusting....... players taking drugs so they can make it...... owners/coaches knowing about it but not carring until the public finds out about it....... fans drinking up all the home-runs and steroid induced excitement........ then everybody crapping all over baseball because all of the sudden it isn't okay to take drugs, that weren't even illegal at the time, to make the game better so they could get butt's back in the seats........ don't blame Bonds or McGwire or Clemens or Sosa or Palmeiro or Canseco.... or anybody else but ourselves.   We, as fans, have destroyed baseball, not the players.

2/7/09
0
red_wings31 wrote:

Jose Canseco had written in his book that A-Rod was a steroid user so this should come as no surprise, although i was hoping that Canseco was wrong.  Now lets see if A-Rod is a better man than Bonds and Clemens by admitting that he did take steroids.

He already "lawyered-up" by saying "You'll have to talk to the union."  So there will be no admission today.

2/7/09
1
If everyone's doing it, let's just divide baseball history into the pre-steroid and Steroid era.  Otherwise, every accomplishment can be discredited.  Who's to say what's better- 300 wins with steroids or 250 without?  There's a lack of real knowledge about what degree steroids can help players (and it probably differs in different positions).  Why not just say that if A-Rod breaks Bonds' record, that A-rod was better than Bonds, but that neither can be compared to Ruth (and by cannot be compared, I mean we shouldn't even try to compare them).  The truth is that Ruth had many advantages that Bonds and A-Rod didn't have, including playing against weaker, far worse pitchers.  Let's just call the two time periods BJ and AJ (Before Juice and After Juice).  We need to level-set on what players today should be expected to have used.

2/7/09
3
beerstudk wrote:
The whole situation is pretty disgusting....... players taking drugs so they can make it...... owners/coaches knowing about it but not carring until the public finds out about it....... fans drinking up all the home-runs and steroid induced excitement........ then everybody crapping all over baseball because all of the sudden it isn't okay to take drugs, that weren't even illegal at the time, to make the game better so they could get butt's back in the seats........ don't blame Bonds or McGwire or Clemens or Sosa or Palmeiro or Canseco.... or anybody else but ourselves.   We, as fans, have destroyed baseball, not the players.
We, as fans, have destroyed baseball, not the players. 

When I went to Baltimore in 2004, I saw Rafael Palmeiro hit 2 home runs and Barry Bonds hit 1 in an interleague game.  It was the first time in 37 years that two members of the 500 home run club had hit home runs in the same game.  I thought I had seen history.  I was disappointed to find out a couple of years later I was watching two steroid users, and ultimately two liars.

Blame the fans?  Spare me. The game will survive because of the fans, regardless of those players.  It lives BECAUSE of us, not in spite of us. 

The game has survived two World Wars, the Black Sox Scandal, racial segregation and integration, the expansion to the west coast, disco demolition night, the Pittsburgh Drug Trials, and Bud Selig's disgraceful tenure as commissioner.  It will continue to survive.  The question will be, who will come forward to help the game do more than just survive, but thrive and return to its prominent place in Americana it once was?

2/7/09
3
A-Fraud was an inside joke/pun lmao

2/7/09
1
jimboj wrote:
If everyone's doing it, let's just divide baseball history into the pre-steroid and Steroid era.  Otherwise, every accomplishment can be discredited.  Who's to say what's better- 300 wins with steroids or 250 without?  There's a lack of real knowledge about what degree steroids can help players (and it probably differs in different positions).  Why not just say that if A-Rod breaks Bonds' record, that A-rod was better than Bonds, but that neither can be compared to Ruth (and by cannot be compared, I mean we shouldn't even try to compare them).  The truth is that Ruth had many advantages that Bonds and A-Rod didn't have, including playing against weaker, far worse pitchers.  Let's just call the two time periods BJ and AJ (Before Juice and After Juice).  We need to level-set on what players today should be expected to have used.
How about that Barry Bonds VS. A-Rod GO AWAY Steriods AND BUD SELIG
Should be a movie with my fav teams having steriods
OMG!!! jimboj u're Right About That Part
But if Ruth had Steriods TRIPLE THREAT!!!
Yankees Red Sox And Giants 
A-Rod      Babe Ruth     Barry Bonds
Compare them to thier # Of Steriods & LA LA There u Go 
How long have they been in this racket? That a stupid Question
See Their Career Stats
WWW.MLB.COM
Boom ur There
bye

  

2/7/09
2
red_wings31 wrote:

Jose Canseco had written in his book that A-Rod was a steroid user so this should come as no surprise, although i was hoping that Canseco was wrong.  Now lets see if A-Rod is a better man than Bonds and Clemens by admitting that he did take steroids.

It would be nice to see a guy not give the fans the run around, but its just not good PR.  True fans of sports and baseball will apreciate the honesty, but lets be honest, we're going to be there no matter what.  Its the fringe fans that he needs to worry about and they are the ones who will get worked up over this.

2/7/09
5
Why are we all just going after Rodriguez? Where are the names of the other 103 players who tested positive with him?

2/7/09
2
I knew it all the time....

2/7/09
0
 Alex shut his mouth and say I never knew I was taking steroids

2/7/09
1
kantwistaye wrote:
It would be nice to see a guy not give the fans the run around, but its just not good PR.  True fans of sports and baseball will apreciate the honesty, but lets be honest, we're going to be there no matter what.  Its the fringe fans that he needs to worry about and they are the ones who will get worked up over this.
These cheaters will have a reason to get worked up when they try to enter the baseball hall of fame.  As McGuire is finding out, cheaters don't belong with the likes of DiMaggio, Ruth, Gerigh etc etc. 

2/7/09
2
Look if it wasn't for guys like Bonds,McGwire,Canseco and Sosa baseball would be dead right now. And the MLB knows it, that's why they turned a blind eye to all of this and hoped it would never come out and now that it has they are doing everything they can to either cover up or bury the people involved. After the strike year baseball was all but dead and the guys I mentioned above who were using roids and hitting the ball to the moon made baseball relevant again and gave people something to be excited about and took their minds off the fact that baseball basically said F you to the fans. MLB knew what was going on and they knew that  as bad as it was for the players health and the bad message that it would send to kids they also knew it was what Baseball need to survive. So IMHO MLB is really the ones who should be getting all the criticism

2/7/09
0
snbslugger wrote:
We, as fans, have destroyed baseball, not the players. 

When I went to Baltimore in 2004, I saw Rafael Palmeiro hit 2 home runs and Barry Bonds hit 1 in an interleague game.  It was the first time in 37 years that two members of the 500 home run club had hit home runs in the same game.  I thought I had seen history.  I was disappointed to find out a couple of years later I was watching two steroid users, and ultimately two liars.

Blame the fans?  Spare me. The game will survive because of the fans, regardless of those players.  It lives BECAUSE of us, not in spite of us. 

The game has survived two World Wars, the Black Sox Scandal, racial segregation and integration, the expansion to the west coast, disco demolition night, the Pittsburgh Drug Trials, and Bud Selig's disgraceful tenure as commissioner.  It will continue to survive.  The question will be, who will come forward to help the game do more than just survive, but thrive and return to its prominent place in Americana it once was?
You're making my point for me when you talk about your 2004 game with such disgust..... fans looking at baseball like it's some religious experience and the records like an insurmountable obsticle set by the titans of old has a lot to do with it.  I mean, Babe Ruth was a slob, a racist, and a drunk..... what really makes him a better man than Barry Bonds?  DiMaggio was an arrogant, pompus ass with connections to the Luciano crime family (which were probably just aquantences and friendships, but it's still a huge mafia family)..... what makes him a better man than Alex Rodriguiz?  I'm sure you know Ty Cobb's personal history...... what makes him any better than Roger Clemens?

Furthermore, baseball promotes cheating on the field.  How many times have we all seen a fight because teams were stealing signs?  How many times have we seen pitchers with questionable substances on their uniforms?  How many times have we seen a corked bat explode, or base runners getting in the way of fielders or sliding into 2nd hard to break-up the double play?  Why all the sudden is steroids not okay?  Why is it okay to have dish soap on a pitchers pants but not for an OF to have some extra testoterone in his blood stream?  Where and when did this line between acceptable cheating and not acceptable cheating get drawn and then crossed?

It's this stupid double standard that fans have about baseball and not having a salary cap that's ulitmately killing the game, not steroids.  Baseball has been celebrating a-holes and d-bags since the start, why the change now?

2/7/09
0
Gay-Rod Sux

2/7/09
1
(Edited by CalBoomer)
As to the comment about no advantage because everybody was doing it, in baseball more than any other sport, people compete against the ghosts and records of the past. Baseball has always been particularly anal about records. I agree that MLB is partly responsible for this. If they just wanted more home runs, they could have passed out aluminum bats to everybody. But no, that would have been too obvious--and probably would have killed a few pitchers. The solution? Baseball fans should get over their infatuation with records, perhaps stop keeping them altogether. And realize that baseball is just entertainment, populated with a bunch of 'roided freaks. You know, just like the NFL.

2/7/09
0
snbslugger wrote:
We, as fans, have destroyed baseball, not the players. 

When I went to Baltimore in 2004, I saw Rafael Palmeiro hit 2 home runs and Barry Bonds hit 1 in an interleague game.  It was the first time in 37 years that two members of the 500 home run club had hit home runs in the same game.  I thought I had seen history.  I was disappointed to find out a couple of years later I was watching two steroid users, and ultimately two liars.

Blame the fans?  Spare me. The game will survive because of the fans, regardless of those players.  It lives BECAUSE of us, not in spite of us. 

The game has survived two World Wars, the Black Sox Scandal, racial segregation and integration, the expansion to the west coast, disco demolition night, the Pittsburgh Drug Trials, and Bud Selig's disgraceful tenure as commissioner.  It will continue to survive.  The question will be, who will come forward to help the game do more than just survive, but thrive and return to its prominent place in Americana it once was?
And unless the NFL and NCAA football do something colossally stupid..... baseball will never be the prominent sport in America.  It might be able to get over the NBA, but never will be as popular as football is right now.

2/7/09
0
beerstudk wrote:
And unless the NFL and NCAA football do something colossally stupid..... baseball will never be the prominent sport in America.  It might be able to get over the NBA, but never will be as popular as football is right now.
The whole league seems to be on steroids and that's why baseball isn't the most popular sport anymore. It's not just good ballplayers trying their hardest anyone. Everyone's being lazy by taking steroids. The NFL has strong players who worked to be strong.

2/7/09
0
(Edited by Seth)
Chuckieredsox wrote:
The whole league seems to be on steroids and that's why baseball isn't the most popular sport anymore. It's not just good ballplayers trying their hardest anyone. Everyone's being lazy by taking steroids. The NFL has strong players who worked to be strong.

Do you really think the NFL is clean?
Really? Do you think when we find out what Dana Stubblefield told the feds, it will be that the players worked hard to be strong or that they too were taking illegal performance inhancing drugs?

2/7/09
0
And who is surprised by this?  Hopefully no one.

2/7/09
1
red_wings31 wrote:
These cheaters will have a reason to get worked up when they try to enter the baseball hall of fame.  As McGuire is finding out, cheaters don't belong with the likes of DiMaggio, Ruth, Gerigh etc etc. 
Yeah...  They don't belong with "pure" and "honest" players like Ty Cobb and Gaylord Perry.

2/7/09
0
(Edited by ML31)
Because the 2003 testing was SUPPOSED to be anonymous.  All that was known about that test was a large percentage of players came up positive, but no names were supposed to be known.  How this information got out is a mystery.

2/7/09
0
Chuckieredsox wrote:
The whole league seems to be on steroids and that's why baseball isn't the most popular sport anymore. It's not just good ballplayers trying their hardest anyone. Everyone's being lazy by taking steroids. The NFL has strong players who worked to be strong.
It's not just steroids...... MLB seriously needs a salary cap to generate some competition (and ultimately interest) in places not located near Boston and New York, and a profit sharing plan would be pretty awsome too.  I don't even think that it's the steroids themselves that are hurting baseball, it's the pompus a-hole fans that think that they're better than the athletes on the field making such a big deal out of steroids that are hurting the sanctity of the game.

And if you think the NFL is clean you are sadly mistaken.  It's probably worse than baseball, just nobody is getting caught yet.

2/7/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Yeah...  They don't belong with "pure" and "honest" players like Ty Cobb and Gaylord Perry.
Exactly!!!  Baseball has celebrated cheating and cheaters from the word go....... it's pretty disgusting that all of the sudden it's not cool to be a total dick and play baseball!

2/8/09
3
beerstudk wrote:
It's not just steroids...... MLB seriously needs a salary cap to generate some competition (and ultimately interest) in places not located near Boston and New York, and a profit sharing plan would be pretty awsome too.  I don't even think that it's the steroids themselves that are hurting baseball, it's the pompus a-hole fans that think that they're better than the athletes on the field making such a big deal out of steroids that are hurting the sanctity of the game.

And if you think the NFL is clean you are sadly mistaken.  It's probably worse than baseball, just nobody is getting caught yet.
There are plenty of steroids in the NFL.  As a matter of fact, steroids probably help NFL players way more than MLB players.  The odd thing is, as popular as the NFL is, no one seems to care if they use.

2/8/09
1
beerstudk wrote:
And unless the NFL and NCAA football do something colossally stupid..... baseball will never be the prominent sport in America.  It might be able to get over the NBA, but never will be as popular as football is right now.
My post must have been awesome.  You replied to it twice.

I go to baseball games to be entertained.  I don't think I ever referred to it as a religious experience although Fenway Park is damn close.  I'm well aware that Gaylord Perry was an unabashed ball doctor.  I do know Mickey Mantle was a drunk, Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes and went in high on purpose, and Enos Slaughter was against integration.  None of it is right, and had their been the 24/7 media circus there is now back then, we'd be hearing that over our radios ad-nauseum.

My opinion is you have to weave this unfortunate time into the living history of baseball and move on from it, just like the Black Sox scandal and Commissioner Landis' virulent racism and "gentlemen's agreement" that no black players would be signed to MLB rosters.  Let all of the qualifying players into the Hall of Fame or let none of them in.  This regrettable time needs to be put behind the game as quickly as possible.  Unfortunately, with this latest story, plus the Bonds trial and the book McGwire's brother is trying to peddle, it's going to take some time.  Personally I just can't wait for opening day so I can watch a game.

The MLB and MLBPA mishandled things from the beginning.  All that can really be done is to try and learn from the mistakes of the past.  I also think getting rid of Bud Selig and Don Fehr, the two idiots that brought you not only the steroid era, but a World Series cancellation in 1994.  The Series survived World War II, but not these two clowns.   It would be better for baseball overall, not just in regards to the drug policy.

The MLBPA won't ever agree to a cap with the current cast of characters in place.  Maybe some new blood on both sides would change that, but Selig and Fehr are completely incompetent.  To start, I think you need to set a MINIMUM amount that owners must invest in their on-the-field product.  There is absolutely no way I believe the Florida Marlins can only afford to spend $14 million on their entire payroll in a season.  This would encourage cheapo owners like the Royals and Twins (though Carl Pohland just died) to pocket their profits less and make an effort to bring contending baseball to their paying customers. 

Crazy idea.  It just might work.

2/8/09
0
  I knew he did it. Most people just wanted to believe he didnt do it. Canseco said he did it and really had nothign to gain from saying it. Some people will say it didnt matter that everyone was doing it. Well i say to that you need to look at everything. The era of steriods. I will take the Mike Schmidt, Willie Mays, Nolan Ryan, Sandy Koufax and so many others who are a lot classier than this era of cheaters. Whatever happened to just plain hard work and dedication. Guess it is just gone with most of these class of players. I can remember when 30 homeruns  was a great season. Oh well..........greed and pure greed.......

2/8/09
1
snbslugger wrote:
My post must have been awesome.  You replied to it twice.

I go to baseball games to be entertained.  I don't think I ever referred to it as a religious experience although Fenway Park is damn close.  I'm well aware that Gaylord Perry was an unabashed ball doctor.  I do know Mickey Mantle was a drunk, Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes and went in high on purpose, and Enos Slaughter was against integration.  None of it is right, and had their been the 24/7 media circus there is now back then, we'd be hearing that over our radios ad-nauseum.

My opinion is you have to weave this unfortunate time into the living history of baseball and move on from it, just like the Black Sox scandal and Commissioner Landis' virulent racism and "gentlemen's agreement" that no black players would be signed to MLB rosters.  Let all of the qualifying players into the Hall of Fame or let none of them in.  This regrettable time needs to be put behind the game as quickly as possible.  Unfortunately, with this latest story, plus the Bonds trial and the book McGwire's brother is trying to peddle, it's going to take some time.  Personally I just can't wait for opening day so I can watch a game.

The MLB and MLBPA mishandled things from the beginning.  All that can really be done is to try and learn from the mistakes of the past.  I also think getting rid of Bud Selig and Don Fehr, the two idiots that brought you not only the steroid era, but a World Series cancellation in 1994.  The Series survived World War II, but not these two clowns.   It would be better for baseball overall, not just in regards to the drug policy.

The MLBPA won't ever agree to a cap with the current cast of characters in place.  Maybe some new blood on both sides would change that, but Selig and Fehr are completely incompetent.  To start, I think you need to set a MINIMUM amount that owners must invest in their on-the-field product.  There is absolutely no way I believe the Florida Marlins can only afford to spend $14 million on their entire payroll in a season.  This would encourage cheapo owners like the Royals and Twins (though Carl Pohland just died) to pocket their profits less and make an effort to bring contending baseball to their paying customers. 

Crazy idea.  It just might work.

Lots of great points.  The era is what it is.  And must be evaluated accordingly.  I, as a fan, do not care how much anyone is making in the game.  I just want to be entertained by a ball game and season.  That being said, it would be nice of all team were on a more even playing field regarding placing a quality product on the field.  That would make the season a lot more fun to watch.  And if there were a cap combined with real revenue sharing, there would not NEED to be a minimum team salary because teams would be more likely to work with what they have than they are now.  I said in another thread that the Marlins could go and over spend for a free agent or two.  But why?  To what end?  Even with those guys the team will still not improve enough to contend.  The fans will still stay away and in the end, the team makes less money or worse, is in a hole.  Given the current state of the game one cannot blame the Marlins or Royals for not spending.

You are very correct on Bud and Don as well.  But don't forget Bud's biggest blunders.  The wild card and interleague play.  Both have contributed greatly to the eroding national interest in MLB.  I mean come on...  Getting rid of the one thing that made baseball unique and greater than all the other sports?  Let's completely ruin and get rid of pennant races.  Genius.  And of course, since the owners can't take a dump without the MLBPA agreeing to it, Don had to approve of those bogus moves too.

2/8/09
0
BigTone2475 wrote:
Look if it wasn't for guys like Bonds,McGwire,Canseco and Sosa baseball would be dead right now. And the MLB knows it, that's why they turned a blind eye to all of this and hoped it would never come out and now that it has they are doing everything they can to either cover up or bury the people involved. After the strike year baseball was all but dead and the guys I mentioned above who were using roids and hitting the ball to the moon made baseball relevant again and gave people something to be excited about and took their minds off the fact that baseball basically said F you to the fans. MLB knew what was going on and they knew that  as bad as it was for the players health and the bad message that it would send to kids they also knew it was what Baseball need to survive. So IMHO MLB is really the ones who should be getting all the criticism
 Well at least Canseco was honest about it  instead of players like Bonds and Clemens constantly lieing about it. No the players deserve all the criticism they make millions upon millions cheating so they deserve it. 

2/8/09
0
snbslugger wrote:
My post must have been awesome.  You replied to it twice.

I go to baseball games to be entertained.  I don't think I ever referred to it as a religious experience although Fenway Park is damn close.  I'm well aware that Gaylord Perry was an unabashed ball doctor.  I do know Mickey Mantle was a drunk, Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes and went in high on purpose, and Enos Slaughter was against integration.  None of it is right, and had their been the 24/7 media circus there is now back then, we'd be hearing that over our radios ad-nauseum.

My opinion is you have to weave this unfortunate time into the living history of baseball and move on from it, just like the Black Sox scandal and Commissioner Landis' virulent racism and "gentlemen's agreement" that no black players would be signed to MLB rosters.  Let all of the qualifying players into the Hall of Fame or let none of them in.  This regrettable time needs to be put behind the game as quickly as possible.  Unfortunately, with this latest story, plus the Bonds trial and the book McGwire's brother is trying to peddle, it's going to take some time.  Personally I just can't wait for opening day so I can watch a game.

The MLB and MLBPA mishandled things from the beginning.  All that can really be done is to try and learn from the mistakes of the past.  I also think getting rid of Bud Selig and Don Fehr, the two idiots that brought you not only the steroid era, but a World Series cancellation in 1994.  The Series survived World War II, but not these two clowns.   It would be better for baseball overall, not just in regards to the drug policy.

The MLBPA won't ever agree to a cap with the current cast of characters in place.  Maybe some new blood on both sides would change that, but Selig and Fehr are completely incompetent.  To start, I think you need to set a MINIMUM amount that owners must invest in their on-the-field product.  There is absolutely no way I believe the Florida Marlins can only afford to spend $14 million on their entire payroll in a season.  This would encourage cheapo owners like the Royals and Twins (though Carl Pohland just died) to pocket their profits less and make an effort to bring contending baseball to their paying customers. 

Crazy idea.  It just might work.

I replied twice because there were 2 points I wanted to make.  Needless to say, baseball is screwed up pretty bad and needs to be fixed..... but are steroids really the main issue?  I don't think so.  And why celebrate men that were cheaters and pieces of crap in the past and now ostresize men for doing something very similar?  In all honesty, steroids saved the game after the strike..... and now people want to throw those players to the curb and treat them like something they scrape off their shoe.  It's disgusting.

2/8/09
0
kevin23864 wrote:
 Well at least Canseco was honest about it  instead of players like Bonds and Clemens constantly lieing about it. No the players deserve all the criticism they make millions upon millions cheating so they deserve it. 
Canseco was up front about it as far back as 1986.  His rookie season.  He openly encouraged others to do it.

2/8/09
2
well, he followed Canseco into Madonna, so this doesn't really surprise me at all

2/8/09
1
beerstudk wrote:
I replied twice because there were 2 points I wanted to make.  Needless to say, baseball is screwed up pretty bad and needs to be fixed..... but are steroids really the main issue?  I don't think so.  And why celebrate men that were cheaters and pieces of crap in the past and now ostresize men for doing something very similar?  In all honesty, steroids saved the game after the strike..... and now people want to throw those players to the curb and treat them like something they scrape off their shoe.  It's disgusting.
I think we're making a similar point.  I feel the league used these players to bring fans back from the strike.  Their misuse and abuse of controlled substances shouldn't be excused, but the league and the player's association should be held accountable as well.  Because MLB owners and the game benefited from this, I don't think you can punish the players without punishing the higher ups.  The trouble is, I don't know what penalties would be fair for all.

As much as I detest Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez for reasons unrelated to steroids, I wouldn't deny them entry into the Hall of Fame.

2/8/09
2
Even with the juice, A-Roid still couldn't get the job done in the clutch.

2/8/09
1
i always knew it

2/8/09
1
Once again, Canseco was right. Is there any need to doubt anything this man says? Other than his celebrity boxing career?

2/8/09
0
snbslugger wrote:
I think we're making a similar point.  I feel the league used these players to bring fans back from the strike.  Their misuse and abuse of controlled substances shouldn't be excused, but the league and the player's association should be held accountable as well.  Because MLB owners and the game benefited from this, I don't think you can punish the players without punishing the higher ups.  The trouble is, I don't know what penalties would be fair for all.

As much as I detest Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez for reasons unrelated to steroids, I wouldn't deny them entry into the Hall of Fame.
And you really shouldn't exclude them from the Hall either...... they have more individual hardware than almost anybody to ever play the game, steroids or not.  And while they're at it, put Pete Rose in the Hall too!!

2/8/09
0
beerstudk wrote:
And you really shouldn't exclude them from the Hall either...... they have more individual hardware than almost anybody to ever play the game, steroids or not.  And while they're at it, put Pete Rose in the Hall too!!
The problem there is that Rose crossed his line when the rule was in place, and he knew exactly what consequences it brought. 

When steroid users first started using in the 80's, there were no warnings about it.  No rules in place about it.  There wasn't even testing for it.  And even to this day, there is testing in place and a punishment table.  A very severe one at that.  One failed test is merely a 50 game suspension.  Whereas gambling on games involving your own team just once is punishable by banishment from baseball.  'Dems 'da rules.

2/8/09
0
kevin23864 wrote:
 Well at least Canseco was honest about it  instead of players like Bonds and Clemens constantly lieing about it. No the players deserve all the criticism they make millions upon millions cheating so they deserve it. 
Oh but MLB and the owners who make more than any of the players dont' deserve any criticism when they allowed this to happen, come on man. Most of the stuff the players were using were not even illegal when they were using them and the rest of them wern't on any banned substance list that is MLB's fault. I am saying that the players don't deserve the heat they are getting what they did was wrong I just think that MLB and the owners should be getting just as much heat .

2/8/09
0
BigTone2475 wrote:
Oh but MLB and the owners who make more than any of the players dont' deserve any criticism when they allowed this to happen, come on man. Most of the stuff the players were using were not even illegal when they were using them and the rest of them wern't on any banned substance list that is MLB's fault. I am saying that the players don't deserve the heat they are getting what they did was wrong I just think that MLB and the owners should be getting just as much heat .
Not that I want to defend owners.  But they DID want to have testing for steroids for a while before 2003.  It was the MLBPA that resisted.  Hence, many steroids were placed on a banned substance list, but there was no testing for them.  It was essentially an honor system, thanks to the MLBPA.

2/8/09
0
You're hilarious.

2/9/09
0
beerstudk wrote:
And you really shouldn't exclude them from the Hall either...... they have more individual hardware than almost anybody to ever play the game, steroids or not.  And while they're at it, put Pete Rose in the Hall too!!
Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe.  Absolutely.

2/9/09
1
ML31 wrote:
The problem there is that Rose crossed his line when the rule was in place, and he knew exactly what consequences it brought. 

When steroid users first started using in the 80's, there were no warnings about it.  No rules in place about it.  There wasn't even testing for it.  And even to this day, there is testing in place and a punishment table.  A very severe one at that.  One failed test is merely a 50 game suspension.  Whereas gambling on games involving your own team just once is punishable by banishment from baseball.  'Dems 'da rules.
They're stupid rules, and they really don't apply to the Hall of Fame...... Pete Rose should be in the Hall for what he did on the field as a player.  I know I'm crossing sports here but if Lawrence Taylor and OJ Simpson are Hall of Fame worthy there's really no reason for Rose not to be considered as well.

2/9/09
0
beerstudk wrote:
They're stupid rules, and they really don't apply to the Hall of Fame...... Pete Rose should be in the Hall for what he did on the field as a player.  I know I'm crossing sports here but if Lawrence Taylor and OJ Simpson are Hall of Fame worthy there's really no reason for Rose not to be considered as well.
Fair enough.  You don't like the punishments.  Personally, I think the gambling rule is EXCELLENT.  Gambling on your own team DOES warrant permanent suspension.  The MLB drug policy has been established and the steroid punishment is even stiffer than positive tests for other banned substances.  It all seems perfectly reasonable to me.

2/9/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Fair enough.  You don't like the punishments.  Personally, I think the gambling rule is EXCELLENT.  Gambling on your own team DOES warrant permanent suspension.  The MLB drug policy has been established and the steroid punishment is even stiffer than positive tests for other banned substances.  It all seems perfectly reasonable to me.
 You could still look at Rose the player apart from Rose the manager.  To my recolection, he wasn't a very good one plus he was banned from baseball for life for gambling while managing the Reds.

2/9/09
0
beerstudk wrote:
 You could still look at Rose the player apart from Rose the manager.  To my recolection, he wasn't a very good one plus he was banned from baseball for life for gambling while managing the Reds.
I wish it made sense.  But Rose the man bet on MLB games involving his own team.  I don't care (nor do the rules) if he did it as a player, coach, owner, manager or ticket taker.  So Rose the man must suffer the consequences. 

2/10/09
1
beerstudk wrote:
 You could still look at Rose the player apart from Rose the manager.  To my recolection, he wasn't a very good one plus he was banned from baseball for life for gambling while managing the Reds.
Actually, he was banned a year before the Reds won the 1990 World Series.  Piniella basically won it with Rose's team.  They were making pretty good progress under Rose as a manager, once he stopped sticking himself into games as a player.

I think if he just admitted he was a gambling addict he would've gotten a little more compassion.  He could have brought the problem to the forefront of American society, just as other athletes have done with drug addiction or alcoholism.  Instead, he got involved with shady people and did it the wrong way. 

Read "My Prison Without Bars" if you haven't already.  It's kind of rough around the edges and has a little more psychobabble than I would like, but when you get to the core of it, you realize Pete Rose is a good guy who did some really, really stupid stuff.  I was only 12 years old or so when his lifetime ban was handed down and I remember him being portrayed as some kind of monster.  It turns out he's just a guy that wants to be liked by everyone and got involved with some less-than-savory people he met while gambling on non-baseball events.  His gambling addiction and his naive idea that these people were his friends is ultimately what got him caught.  His stubbornness and refusal to hold himself accountable for all these years is what's kept him out of the Hall of Fame.

 
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