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11/6/09
Baseball's Competitive Balance
Is There Really "Competitive Balance" in the MLB?
READ MORE:
MLB, San Francisco Giants, Atlanta Braves, Baltimore Orioles, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians, Colorado Rockies, Detroit Tigers, Florida Marlins, Houston Astros, Kansas City Royals, Los Angeles Angels, Los Angeles Dodgers, Milwaukee Brewers, Minnesota Twins, New York Mets, New York Yankees, Oakland Athletics, Philadelphia Phillies, Pittsburgh Pirates, San Diego Padres, Seattle Mariners, St. Louis Cardinals, Tampa Bay Rays, Texas Rangers, Toronto Blue Jays, Washington Nationals, Team News / Analysis, Salary Cap, competitive, unfair
by jasonwrites more posts by author
97
The baseball-watching nation, outside of Yankees fans, let out a collective yawn, or perhaps groan, as New York predictably won its 27th World Series championship on November 4, 2009.

It was predictable because, by all rights, a team that can afford to buy and keep all the best players available, and an owner who will spend more than anyone to do just that, should win it all. Perhaps the only surprise should be that they don't win it all every year, given these advantages. The fact remains that during this past decade (2000-2009) they were in the postseason all but one year (last year, 2008) and so every one of those years they were one of eight teams that were in position to claim the ultimate prize. The run of success of course extends much farther back, but I want to focus on this decade.

There is much hue and cry, but the simple fact remains that MLB is the only one of the four major professional leagues (the NFL, NBA, and NHL being the others) that does not employ some form of a salary cap to force at least a semblance of payroll balance. The MLBPA, only the most powerful trade union in the United States, is diametrically opposed to anything that even smells like a salary cap.

In the face of this, though, is baseball so competitively unbalanced compared to the other three sports? Judging by participants in the championship game or series during this decade, the answer would be no. Here are the results of the championship game or series for each of the four during this past decade (the number in parentheses refers to the number of unique teams competing):


Championship Participants 2000-2009
MLB (14)
 NFL (14) NBA (11) NHL (11)
2000 Yankees def. Mets
2001 Diamondbacks def. Yankees
2002 Angels def. Giants
2003 Marlins def. Yankees
2004 Red Sox def. Cardinals
2005 White Sox def. Astros
2006 Cardinals def. Tigers
2007 Red Sox def. Rockies
2008 Phillies def. Rays
2009 Yankees def. Phillies		 99-00 Rams def. Titans
00-01 Ravens def. Giants
01-02 Patriots def. Rams
02-03 Buccaneers def. Raiders
03-04 Patriots def. Panthers
04-05 Patriots def. Eagles
05-06 Steelers def. Seahawks
06-07 Colts def. Bears
07-08 Giants def. Patriots
08-09 Steelers def. Cardinals
99-00 Lakers def. Pacers
00-01 Lakers def. 76ers
01-02 Lakers def. Nets
02-03 Spurs def. Nets
03-04 Pistons def. Lakers
04-05 Spurs def. Pistons
05-06 Heat def. Mavericks
06-07 Spurs def. Cavaliers
07-08 Celtics def. Lakers
08-09 Lakers def. Magic
 		 99-00 Devils def. Stars
00-01 Avalanche def. Devils
01-02 Wings def. Hurricanes
02-03 Devils def. Ducks
03-04 Lightning def. Flames
04-05 (No season played)
05-06 Hurricanes def. Oilers
06-07 Ducks def. Senators
07-08 Wings def. Penguins
08-09 Penguins def. Wings

Baseball actually ties for first with the NFL in terms of unique teams which have competed in the championship game or series. In the span of ten years, eight different teams won the World Series; only the Yankees and Red Sox won more than once. By comparison, seven different teams won the Super Bowl and the Stanley Cup, and only five different teams won the NBA championship.

It's also worth noting that although it is an apples and oranges comparison between these leagues when discussing how many unique teams have simply qualified for postseason play, since baseball qualifies significantly fewer teams for its playoffs-- only eight each year, as compared to 12 in the NFL and 16 (twice as many) in the NBA and NHL-- 23 of the 30 teams did play in the postseason this decade.

Does all this mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Looking at the eight teams qualifying for the postseason in 2009, six of them-- Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers, Cardinals, and Angels-- were among the top 10 highest payrolls; the remaining two, the Twins and Rockies, are in the bottom half of in terms of payroll. You see a team like the Twins get in this year and the Rays get in last year-- even going all the way to the World Series-- and you think there's a chance for teams on all levels to compete. But just making it one year doesn't prove much. The Colorado Rockies reaching the postseason in two of the last three seasons is a more promising sign. But will a mid-market team like Colorado ever be able to keep enough of their best players to sustain a long run of success? They already traded Matt Holliday before this past season rather than watching him walk as a free agent. Meanwhile, on the bottom, teams like the Royals, Nationals, and Pirates have no chance of competing in the current economic climate, and their fan bases will continue to erode until their ownership shows the willingness to truly turn their situation around.

Many people say the Yankees are bad for baseball. They believe any situation in which one franchise can handily outspend its competition is inherently unfair, imbalanced, and noncompetitive. They believe that Major League Baseball has been reduced to, as another writer on this site termed it, a "feudal system" in which the 30 teams are split, roughly equally, into three basic tiers: at the top, the teams which can spend almost as much as they want, sign elite free agents, and sign their own homegrown players to long-term contracts; the middle tier, whose treasure chests are not quite so deep; they cannot spend as freely, but they are blessed with dedicated owners and intelligent upper management, who run superior minor-league systems, scout well, and seem to be able to keep replenishing their rosters with a mix of promising young players and veteran talent that serve to fill in missing pieces but aren't the elite "name" players; and the bottom tier, plagued by small payrolls, unfavorable television contracts, and perhaps worst of all, inept or simply uncaring ownership and management. These teams, perennial cellar dwellers, become, essentially, farm teams for the top tier.

In the end, it's not pointless to be a team of any team besides the Yankees. At least half the teams in both league can be considered real playoff contenders, at least at the beginning of the season. But there's a considerable difference between merely being able to reach the postseason, and having a realistic shot of winning it all, and it's an even smaller group of teams that can win the World Series more than once over the course of several years. And until drastic change occurs in baseball's basic economic structure, that group will remain quite small indeed.
 
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11/5/09
0
Nice comparison. People act like the Yankees win every other year. But their "buying" of championships isn't really an accurate statement. But baseball would do well to implement the salary cap, but like with everything else, they are behind the times and slow to adapt to the needs of the game, and the wants of the fans.

11/5/09
2
TheRoss wrote:
Nice comparison. People act like the Yankees win every other year. But their "buying" of championships isn't really an accurate statement. But baseball would do well to implement the salary cap, but like with everything else, they are behind the times and slow to adapt to the needs of the game, and the wants of the fans.
The only way a salary cap will ever happen is if MLB will bite the bullet and do what the NHL did, either cancelling an entire season, or using replacement players. The union will never cave until they are simply forced to. Sure, it would suck for a year, but it would be worth it for the long run. Younger players who are not yet financially set would give in if the lockout lasted a full season or more. But I just don't think the owners have the balls to do it.

11/6/09
2
A lot of good stuff there...  But I don't buy the "look at how many different teams win the Series" argument.  That is more a result of expanded playoffs rather than competitive balance.  The main point is how many times have the Yankees won their division?  You mentioned that in claiming that the Yankees have been in position to win the WS all but one year this decade.  And even more before that.  THAT is what their money buys.  Not the title itself.  

Also, I do not know what is so promising about the Rox using the "back door" to get in the post season.  Neither time have they won the West.  They came close once and had some faint signs of doing it this year (but never seemed too interested in actually winning the division) and haven't even sniffed it any other season.  When the Rox can actually compete for the division title more than once in a three year stretch, then you might say they have promise.

11/6/09
0
I just dont see a salary cap in MLB in my lifetime. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

11/6/09
1
(Edited by ms_hippie_queen)
even with a salary cap - which i am all for - there will be teams in the lower echelon who can't even reach it, but there will be more of the 2008 rays and 2007 rockies to come, just as there will be more of the 2009 astros and mets (100 million payrolls finishing well below .500).

money doesn't necessarily lock in a winner but when your front office can go all jennifer-lopez-in-a-sachs-fifth-avenue during the offseason, that certainly gives a team a heavy upper hand over the tj maxx  shoppers. too girly? all well.

the way i see it is this: teams should have the cap averaging somewhere in the middle of the road between the marlins and yankees. i believe that being a gm should, like everything else in baseball, require strategy.

p.s. great article!

11/6/09
0
mk_donley wrote:
I just dont see a salary cap in MLB in my lifetime. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.
 The only way for a salary cap to work would to have revenue sharing. I don't see any of these big market teams willing to give some of there money away to other teams.

11/6/09
1
 Phenomenal article!

Being a Padres fan with our $42.8 Million Dollar payroll, it's hard to say that there is competitive balance in the MLB. I do know that the Marlins, Rays and Twins seem to find there ways to the playoffs and World Series, so it is possible. But year after year, teams in smaller markets cannot keep up with the $100 Million payrolls the big boys have. It sucks because the last time the MLB thought about putting in a Salary Cap, the World Series was cancelled....I don't know. Maybe a salary cap would cause more issues, but a $201 Million payroll is ridiculous. A team who spends that much cash better win the World Series. If not...What a waste of $$$$!!!

11/6/09
1
WBKsports wrote:
 Phenomenal article!

Being a Padres fan with our $42.8 Million Dollar payroll, it's hard to say that there is competitive balance in the MLB. I do know that the Marlins, Rays and Twins seem to find there ways to the playoffs and World Series, so it is possible. But year after year, teams in smaller markets cannot keep up with the $100 Million payrolls the big boys have. It sucks because the last time the MLB thought about putting in a Salary Cap, the World Series was cancelled....I don't know. Maybe a salary cap would cause more issues, but a $201 Million payroll is ridiculous. A team who spends that much cash better win the World Series. If not...What a waste of $$$$!!!
I think a  $201 million payroll is ridiculous when the next highest clocks in at $149 million and the median is at $80 million.  That gap is just too great.  If everyone could pay $201 million, then it wouldn't be an issue. 

The only way to go is a cap combined with the sharing of local media revenues.

11/6/09
2
im all against a salary cap against baseball. the Marlins are have the lowest payroll in the game and managed to win 87 games. the owner of the royals has more money than george stienbrener but refuses to spend any on his ballclub thefore for thats what you get for having a cheap owener.. the royals could be the yankees if they wanted to

11/6/09
0
NO TO A SALLARY CAP YES TO STEROIDS

11/6/09
0
markayg wrote:
im all against a salary cap against baseball. the Marlins are have the lowest payroll in the game and managed to win 87 games. the owner of the royals has more money than george stienbrener but refuses to spend any on his ballclub thefore for thats what you get for having a cheap owener.. the royals could be the yankees if they wanted to
It doesn't matter how much money an owner is worth.  What matters is how much is the team as a business making.  The Yankees spend that much because they make it.  The Marlins don't spend that much because they DON'T make it.  Sure, the owner could pump his own money in.  But if he did that, he wouldn't be worth anything after a while.

11/6/09
0
(Edited by ataqwx)
Is it really that fair? You have a team with a payroll of $150 million+ and another with just over $20 million. Weather the teams wins or not is based on how you spent the money, but the yankees are just taking talent, lets see them operate with $20 million. A-rod makes that much in a year. There are other teams that spend a lot, but not like the yankees, not even close.

11/6/09
0
The NBA throws off the comparison, because everyone repeats in the NBA, for the most part. It's been that way for decades.

11/6/09
1
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
Fact is the Yankees are the most famous team in Sports there value is more then the worth of the second and third baseball team combined people would be angry if they didn't spend there money look people call it a bought team but look most of the team is from the Farm System. The big four are from the farm system matter fact which means they are good a drafting players among other players Joba, Hughes, Melky Cabrera among other players that won WS this year which the money they make isn't really that much. Yankees are just at paying there players they put there money were there mouth is and I think most other teams can put the money up and most owners don't really care about the team they own most of the owners have free money they can pay for players but they put it in the pockets. Yeah the Yankees also get the great free agent but they also trade good also look at Nick Swisher and Dámaso Marté they are not getting paid that much even ARod was a trade thought he got alot of money and has a second contract he was a trade. Red Sox could have got A Rod but they didn't wanna pay him. Tex also they didn't wanna pay him among other players. They will never have a Cap but what they will do is raise the Tax which means the Yankees will pay more on the tax which is fair fact is the Yankees pay other teams money because of what they pay the players.Because of the Yankees team the other teams are able to keep more of the super stars then before with a cap that really means they couldn't get more revenue from the Yankees or other teams so in them terms the small team owners wouldn't see extra money in the pocket which they wouldn't like to see happen. You see in recent times even the smaller teams have bigger pay roles because of collective Bargaining  and Yankees pay most of that its fair Yankees have not won a thing in 9 years until recent times.  I don't see a cap being put in place. I think it was be stupid. To me there are far to many sports teams in all sports anyways we should get rid of at least 10 teams  that don't produce even that would make it fair more 22 teams more players players would get less money because the bid war wouldn't be there as much because most of the teams would have the position lock up and that would balanced sports more make the teams more equal which give better competition.

11/6/09
1
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
Fact is the Yankees are the most famous team in Sports there value is more then the worth of the second and third baseball team combined people would be angry if they didn't spend there money look people call it a bought team but look most of the team is from the Farm System. The big four are from the farm system matter fact which means they are good a drafting players among other players Joba, Hughes, Melky Cabrera among other players that won WS this year which the money they make isn't really that much. Yankees are just at paying there players they put there money were there mouth is and I think most other teams can put the money up and most owners don't really care about the team they own most of the owners have free money they can pay for players but they put it in the pockets. Yeah the Yankees also get the great free agent but they also trade good also look at Nick Swisher and Dámaso Marté they are not getting paid that much even ARod was a trade thought he got alot of money and has a second contract he was a trade. Red Sox could have got A Rod but they didn't wanna pay him. Tex also they didn't wanna pay him among other players. They will never have a Cap but what they will do is raise the Tax which means the Yankees will pay more on the tax which is fair fact is the Yankees pay other teams money because of what they pay the players.Because of the Yankees team the other teams are able to keep more of the super stars then before with a cap that really means they couldn't get more revenue from the Yankees or other teams so in them terms the small team owners wouldn't see extra money in the pocket which they wouldn't like to see happen. You see in recent times even the smaller teams have bigger pay roles because of collective Bargaining  and Yankees pay most of that its fair Yankees have not won a thing in 9 years until recent times.  I don't see a cap being put in place. I think it was be stupid. To me there are far to many sports teams in all sports anyways we should get rid of at least 10 teams  that don't produce even that would make it fair more 22 teams more players players would get less money because the bid war wouldn't be there as much because most of the teams would have the position lock up and that would balanced sports more make the teams more equal which give better competition.
Alert! Alert!

We have identified another drinker of the poisons Yankee Kool-ade....

11/6/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Alert! Alert!

We have identified another drinker of the poisons Yankee Kool-ade....
LOL Word

11/6/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
LOL you have the highest pay role in the NL don't get angry because your team stinks they are bad. The Wets were bad with a high pay role before they all got hurt that was just an excuse who misses third base lol. You see the outfielder flop like a fish that was funny

11/6/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
LOL you have the highest pay role in the NL don't get angry because your team stinks they are bad. The Wets were bad with a high pay role before they all got hurt that was just an excuse who misses third base lol. You see the outfielder flop like a fish that was funny
Who are you talking to?

I'm no Mets fan.

BTW...  The Mets may have the highest payroll in the NL, but they are STILL more than $50 million behind the Yankee$.

11/6/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
LOL you have the highest pay role in the NL don't get angry because your team stinks they are bad. The Wets were bad with a high pay role before they all got hurt that was just an excuse who misses third base lol. You see the outfielder flop like a fish that was funny
Bad spending, but the yankees still outspent everyone. All I'm saying is that the yankees have a huge advantage with their money, and they have a couple players who made more than an entire team.

11/6/09
0
ataqwx wrote:
Bad spending, but the yankees still outspent everyone. All I'm saying is that the yankees have a huge advantage with their money, and they have a couple players who made more than an entire team.
Well they also make more money then any other team they make more then twice what other teams make including your own team. They put it back into the team your team should do the same they can get allot of players but they don't wanna spend the money.

11/6/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Who are you talking to?

I'm no Mets fan.

BTW...  The Mets may have the highest payroll in the NL, but they are STILL more than $50 million behind the Yankee$.
ataqwx

11/6/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
Well they also make more money then any other team they make more then twice what other teams make including your own team. They put it back into the team your team should do the same they can get allot of players but they don't wanna spend the money.
Okay, well the Mets don't, what can I do? Plus, the yankees make more money to spend to put back in their team, I don't think many teams make what the Yankees spend.

11/7/09
2
The only big difference I see between MLB and the NFL (for example), is that the 10 worst teams in baseball are likely to be the 10 worst next year.  In the NFL, you seem to be guaranteed a few surprises each year. 

11/7/09
1
There might be a surprise in MLB as well.  Like the '08 Rays.  But those teams don't last.   The system makes it VERY hard for them to do so.

Plus, the main difference is the NFL has no local TV money going to individual teams.  It's all netowrk.  That is the real difference and why some teams can spend way more than others.

11/7/09
0
Heyhey1970 wrote:
The only big difference I see between MLB and the NFL (for example), is that the 10 worst teams in baseball are likely to be the 10 worst next year.  In the NFL, you seem to be guaranteed a few surprises each year. 
dang, dude - never heard it put so simply and have it make all the sense in the world. well said!

11/7/09
0
Heyhey1970 wrote:
The only big difference I see between MLB and the NFL (for example), is that the 10 worst teams in baseball are likely to be the 10 worst next year.  In the NFL, you seem to be guaranteed a few surprises each year. 
Generally, I think that's true. In the NFL, the Broncos are a surprise this year, and there may be a couple of others. The Dolphins were definitely a surprise last year after having one only one game (I think) the year before, but now they've returned to mediocrity. But there isn't really the vaunted parity in the NFL either. The Patriots have been great for a decade and will continue to be. The Lions, Rams, Jaguars, Raiders, et. al. have no hope of being competitive in the forseeable future. Granted, much of that may be due to bad management. The NFL has many measures in place to guarantee more competitive balance, beyond just the salary cap: sharing of the network TV contracts, overall revenue sharing, etc. This is because at the time of the merger back in the 1960s, the owners got together and decided that they wanted to do all they could to actually make the league succeed, not just themselves as individuals. Even since Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees for practically nothing in 1920, baseball owners have, as a group, always been selfish, greedy, and distrustful of each other. They (with notable exceptions) always put their own interests ahead of the game. Conversely, the players have always been distrustful of ownership and it's no surprise at all that since the union has gained leverage, the players have had every decision go their way. Ownership had such a corrupt reputation that when they actually tried to control runaway free-agent spending, they were accused and convicted of collusion. Then they once again became so power-hungry that they voted out the Commissioner and replaced him with one of their own, Bud Selig, their official lackey. If they can't force a salary cap, they have to at least appoint a real Commissioner with real power again, if anything is ever going to change.

11/7/09
0
Also, thank you, everyone, for your comments. I will give respect to at least a couple of you, but I have to think of how to ration it. But thank you to ALL commenters

11/7/09
1
jasonwrites wrote:
Generally, I think that's true. In the NFL, the Broncos are a surprise this year, and there may be a couple of others. The Dolphins were definitely a surprise last year after having one only one game (I think) the year before, but now they've returned to mediocrity. But there isn't really the vaunted parity in the NFL either. The Patriots have been great for a decade and will continue to be. The Lions, Rams, Jaguars, Raiders, et. al. have no hope of being competitive in the forseeable future. Granted, much of that may be due to bad management. The NFL has many measures in place to guarantee more competitive balance, beyond just the salary cap: sharing of the network TV contracts, overall revenue sharing, etc. This is because at the time of the merger back in the 1960s, the owners got together and decided that they wanted to do all they could to actually make the league succeed, not just themselves as individuals. Even since Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees for practically nothing in 1920, baseball owners have, as a group, always been selfish, greedy, and distrustful of each other. They (with notable exceptions) always put their own interests ahead of the game. Conversely, the players have always been distrustful of ownership and it's no surprise at all that since the union has gained leverage, the players have had every decision go their way. Ownership had such a corrupt reputation that when they actually tried to control runaway free-agent spending, they were accused and convicted of collusion. Then they once again became so power-hungry that they voted out the Commissioner and replaced him with one of their own, Bud Selig, their official lackey. If they can't force a salary cap, they have to at least appoint a real Commissioner with real power again, if anything is ever going to change.
The MLBPA needs to give some power back.  I'm kind of with you in that if I'm in the PA, I wouldn't give anything back unless there was a REAL Commissioner once again.  One who did not only answer to the owners, but one who took everyone's best interest to heart.  By everyone, I mean the players, owners, the game and fans.

But I'm not so high that I think that will ever happen.

PS...  MLB shares all national cable and network contracts, just like the NFL does.  The big difference is in the NFL there are no local TV deals.  The NFL has no revenue sharing because there are no local deals for individual teams to share.

11/8/09
0
Heyhey1970 wrote:
The only big difference I see between MLB and the NFL (for example), is that the 10 worst teams in baseball are likely to be the 10 worst next year.  In the NFL, you seem to be guaranteed a few surprises each year. 
Right its harder to change out a Athlete in the MlB also there contacts are more Guaranteed when a Baseball player poor he has remain with the team unless you can trade him which isn't likely allot of the time.. Look at TO Cowboys got rid of TO fast without much problems and look at Manny he getting 20 mil and the Dodgers can't do anything about it. Unless your the Yankees MLB really teams really can't do anything about bad contracts and bad players unlike Yankees they spent 50 mil for a player that can't play he in the farm systems most teams can't eat the mistakes Yankees did. Also it really takes longer for an MLB player to develop when allot of NFL stars can play right and if you get lucky it just takes a few of them to make a team. Baseball players are more specialize then NFL Players and need more training then NFL unless your a special case.

11/8/09
0
ML31 wrote:
The MLBPA needs to give some power back.  I'm kind of with you in that if I'm in the PA, I wouldn't give anything back unless there was a REAL Commissioner once again.  One who did not only answer to the owners, but one who took everyone's best interest to heart.  By everyone, I mean the players, owners, the game and fans.

But I'm not so high that I think that will ever happen.

PS...  MLB shares all national cable and network contracts, just like the NFL does.  The big difference is in the NFL there are no local TV deals.  The NFL has no revenue sharing because there are no local deals for individual teams to share.
But I think the NFL does share non-TV revenue such as merchandise sales, etc. Not sure about that.

11/8/09
0
jasonwrites wrote:
But I think the NFL does share non-TV revenue such as merchandise sales, etc. Not sure about that.
MLB does that too....  But not in a simplistic way.  Their merchandise thing is complicated.  Internet sales are evenly split...  Sales at games are split between teams (if the item is connected to the teams playing), sales at stores have a percentage going to the team who is on the item with the rest split....  Or something like that.  I read it once years ago and I'm sure some particulars of changed.  But it was overly complex I remember.

11/9/09
0
jasonwrites wrote:
But I think the NFL does share non-TV revenue such as merchandise sales, etc. Not sure about that.
Cowboy share some revenue with the Yankees they have a join non sport business with each other isn't that cool

11/9/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Alert! Alert!

We have identified another drinker of the poisons Yankee Kool-ade....
LOL like my Yankee Kool-aide better then Coors lol your Rocky got knocked out by Philly and Philly got knocked out by the Yankee wasn't rocky doing the knocking out in the movie

11/9/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
LOL like my Yankee Kool-aide better then Coors lol your Rocky got knocked out by Philly and Philly got knocked out by the Yankee wasn't rocky doing the knocking out in the movie
If your perverse views of MLB economics aren't enough, your Yankee kool-ade addiction is also causing you to think I am a fan of the Rox.  Yet another mistake.  Your friends need to stage an intervention for your own good.

11/9/09
1
 It is hard for me to say much being a Red Sox fan however I do find it obnoxious the amount of money that the Yankees spend.  You can argue that they have home grown talent however look over the years at their star players and none of them were home grown other than maybe Jeter.  A-Rod, Clemens, Johnny Damon, Texiera... the list goes on and on...... and if you wore a Red Sox uniform and were half ways decent, the Yankees were happy to pay you an astronomically high salary.  A salary cap would do baseball well.....

People were saying that the rating for this year's World Series were high... I find that hard to believe....

11/9/09
0
not that hard to believe...many more folks are going to watch the defending champs and of course the yankees than would watch say a houston/rays series

11/9/09
0
The 2009 World Series averaged an 11.7 rating.  The highest in 5 years. 

The Yankees being in it may have had a slight effect, but I think more telling is the new World Series schedule.  The jury-rigging by FOX to get more weekday games seems to have paid off some and more importantly (I think) starting the games 40 minutes earlier is the main reason for the ratings bump.

However, 11.7 is still less than 1/2 of what was normal for a World Series only 20 years ago.

11/9/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

11/9/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
My Bad your an A's fan that's even worst lol. A's for my economic views alone A's would be one team I would let go along with the Padres they done nothing for years 5 teams in Cali just crazy other Business can downsize and are why can't sport they are the only business that's not. I'm a Rox fan Vodka on da roxs yea!!!!

11/9/09
0
ML31 wrote:
The 2009 World Series averaged an 11.7 rating.  The highest in 5 years. 

The Yankees being in it may have had a slight effect, but I think more telling is the new World Series schedule.  The jury-rigging by FOX to get more weekday games seems to have paid off some and more importantly (I think) starting the games 40 minutes earlier is the main reason for the ratings bump.

However, 11.7 is still less than 1/2 of what was normal for a World Series only 20 years ago.
20 years ago would have been... the A's-Giants earthquake series... coincidence? I think it was probably already going downhill by that point. Of course, the simple fact is that there's just so much more on TV now, with hundreds of channels, plus the Web... so many more ways of dividing America's attention, that I doubt even the mighty NFL draws the kind of ratings it did in the 1970s and 80s. Outside of the Super Bowl, championship series just aren't the draw they used to be. The Stanley Cup Finals weren't even fully televised on network television last year (I believe Versus broadcast the first two games before it switched to NBC). The Super Bowl can have that appeal because it's a single, all-or-nothing game. If you could get a Yankees-Dodgers or, God forbid, Yankees-Cubs Game 7, then I think you would see big ratings, but nothing else will garner that level.

The A's were the model small-market team in the first half of this decade during the Billy Beane "Moneyball" era. He's still there but the model doesn't seem to be as successful anymore. The Matt Holliday trade did not pan out well for them, although since it ended up becoming two trades in one year I guess they gained some prospects out of it. Carlos Gonzalez and Huston Street were huge for the Rockies, but I digress.
I'm also thinking Dragon is confusing you with me when he calls you a Rox fan. If you see my other poll today, Rox are currently 20 to 1 odds of winning the 2010 World Series. Giants are a few slots down from there, and the A's are over 100:1.

11/9/09
0
jasonwrites wrote:
20 years ago would have been... the A's-Giants earthquake series... coincidence? I think it was probably already going downhill by that point. Of course, the simple fact is that there's just so much more on TV now, with hundreds of channels, plus the Web... so many more ways of dividing America's attention, that I doubt even the mighty NFL draws the kind of ratings it did in the 1970s and 80s. Outside of the Super Bowl, championship series just aren't the draw they used to be. The Stanley Cup Finals weren't even fully televised on network television last year (I believe Versus broadcast the first two games before it switched to NBC). The Super Bowl can have that appeal because it's a single, all-or-nothing game. If you could get a Yankees-Dodgers or, God forbid, Yankees-Cubs Game 7, then I think you would see big ratings, but nothing else will garner that level.

The A's were the model small-market team in the first half of this decade during the Billy Beane "Moneyball" era. He's still there but the model doesn't seem to be as successful anymore. The Matt Holliday trade did not pan out well for them, although since it ended up becoming two trades in one year I guess they gained some prospects out of it. Carlos Gonzalez and Huston Street were huge for the Rockies, but I digress.
I'm also thinking Dragon is confusing you with me when he calls you a Rox fan. If you see my other poll today, Rox are currently 20 to 1 odds of winning the 2010 World Series. Giants are a few slots down from there, and the A's are over 100:1.
The TV decline started in the early '90's.  Baseball was really in it's heyday in the '80's.  Ironically, an era where the Yankees sucked.  So the idea that MLB needs the Yankees to be good for success is 100% hogwash. 

I know that all TV ratings are down.  But baseball's seem to have dropped more than everyone else.

I don't consider the A's a "Small Market" team.  If they are, then so are the Giants as both teams are in the same market.  That market happens to be the smallest two team market, however.  I prefer the term "low revenue" team.  Moneyball would work very well if they had just 1/2 of the money the Yankees have.  Again, money has kept the era of great A's teams from lasting.

11/9/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
My Bad your an A's fan that's even worst lol. A's for my economic views alone A's would be one team I would let go along with the Padres they done nothing for years 5 teams in Cali just crazy other Business can downsize and are why can't sport they are the only business that's not. I'm a Rox fan Vodka on da roxs yea!!!!
Yeah...  Let's get rid of one of the most storied franchises in all of Major League baseball.  The team with the winningest manager ever.  A team that has won 9 World Series.  Surpassed only by the Cardinals and Yankees.  And you want to get rid of them because they haven't done anything lately?   You're deranged.  But I expect nothing less from someone addicted to the Yankee Kool-ade.

And since you seem incapable of accurately looking at my profile...   I'll just tell you right off I support the Giants.  The A's are merely my American League team.

11/9/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
All rating drop for the fact you have like 100 or more channels allot of people in the past watch sports because really nothing was on. Another reason for lower ratings Internet you can watch and do more stuff on the Internet and the fact more people go to a friends house to watch the game ratings count per house hold they are not counting how many people are in the house.  I love Yankee haters that great that's why they remain so popular people focus so much on them then there own team fact is the greedy owners open the wallets like the Yankees do it would be better. And dude without the Yankees baseball wouldn't be popular they are truly the only world wide team. And why do the Yankees sell more tickets then any other team in baseball why are they worth more then the top two other team combined that because of fan's

11/9/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
All rating drop for the fact you have like 100 or more channels allot of people in the past watch sports because really nothing was on. Another reason for lower ratings Internet you can watch and do more stuff on the Internet and the fact more people go to a friends house to watch the game ratings count per house hold they are not counting how many people are in the house.  I love Yankee haters that great that's why they remain so popular people focus so much on them then there own team fact is the greedy owners open the wallets like the Yankees do it would be better. And dude without the Yankees baseball wouldn't be popular they are truly the only world wide team. And why do the Yankees sell more tickets then any other team in baseball why are they worth more then the top two other team combined that because of fan's
You don't need to explain to me the mechanics of the ratings drops.  I know it.  Baseball's have still dropped more than any other sport.  Period.

I am actually not a Yankee hater.  I am a hater of the economic system MLB has in place.  I don't like ANY team that overspends.  Those teams are part of the problem with MLB.  Not part of the solution.  Trust me, the Yankees being on TV does not cause me to watch.  I was far more interested in last year's series than this year's.  Last year's was a far more intriguing and interesting match up.  And as I said before, the last time MLB had a great decade, the Yankees sucked for almost all of it.  Thus proving that the Yankees need MLB far more than MLB needs the Yankees.  But, I don't expect you to understand that.  The Yankee kool ade prevents you from seeing the world as it is.  

11/9/09
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(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
All the Yankees HATER-AID LOL ISN'T IT GREAT. I think your wrong with last years world series. This year it was the battle of the two best teams in there particular league this rarely happens it was just a great heavy weight fight best vs. best.  Yankees didn't stink in the 80's the fact is they had more wins then all the baseball teams look it up that's a fact in the 80's they just couldn't make it happen when it really counted that happens not even the Yankees can win all the time. This is a football era which is why people don't watch baseball as much but NY though the Yankees even beat the giants in ratings which tells you about NY with a 22 rating

11/9/09
1
ML31 wrote:
You don't need to explain to me the mechanics of the ratings drops.  I know it.  Baseball's have still dropped more than any other sport.  Period.

I am actually not a Yankee hater.  I am a hater of the economic system MLB has in place.  I don't like ANY team that overspends.  Those teams are part of the problem with MLB.  Not part of the solution.  Trust me, the Yankees being on TV does not cause me to watch.  I was far more interested in last year's series than this year's.  Last year's was a far more intriguing and interesting match up.  And as I said before, the last time MLB had a great decade, the Yankees sucked for almost all of it.  Thus proving that the Yankees need MLB far more than MLB needs the Yankees.  But, I don't expect you to understand that.  The Yankee kool ade prevents you from seeing the world as it is.  
Not more than the NHL. It's not even on TV anymore, so I don't see how it's ratings could be better than MLB.

11/9/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
All the Yankees HATER-AID LOL ISN'T IT GREAT. I think your wrong with last years world series. This year it was the battle of the two best teams in there particular league this rarely happens it was just a great heavy weight fight best vs. best.  Yankees didn't stink in the 80's the fact is they had more wins then all the baseball teams look it up that's a fact in the 80's they just couldn't make it happen when it really counted that happens not even the Yankees can win all the time. This is a football era which is why people don't watch baseball as much but NY though the Yankees even beat the giants in ratings which tells you about NY with a 22 rating
Of course YOU would prefer this years over last year's.  And it has nothing to do with the quality of the teams involved.  The Yankees are YOUR team.  You are hardly in a position to make an unbiased determination on the quality of the match up.  

I agree that this year the two best teams did play.  So it had that going for it.  But... That was pretty predicable from the day spring training started.  Last year's was more interesting and exciting because it had a first time Series participant.  A team that almost literally came out of nowhere to surprise everyone.  A team that spends a fraction of what the Yankees do.  Last year's Rays, while perhaps not as good, was infinately more interesting than this year's Yankees.  And then you had the Phils.  Who, yes, are a spendy team, but not nearly as spendy as the Yankees.  Plus the Phils have had a recent history of blowing it in the post season.  

Compare that to the yawn Yankees (again!) playing in the Series against a Philly team who was a tad more interesting as they were trying to be the first NL team to go back to back in 20 years..  And I think we know where the unbiased vote goes.

Now let's check out the Yankees in the '80's.

1980: 1st.
1981: 4th
1982: 5th
1983: 3rd
1984: 3rd
1985: 2nd
1986: 2nd
1987: 4th
1988: 5th
1989: 5th
And lets include 1990..
1990: Last.

Baseball's most prosperous decade to date had the Yankees finishing in 1st place once.

You so look at the world through Yankee colored glasses.

11/9/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Of course YOU would prefer this years over last year's.  And it has nothing to do with the quality of the teams involved.  The Yankees are YOUR team.  You are hardly in a position to make an unbiased determination on the quality of the match up.  

I agree that this year the two best teams did play.  So it had that going for it.  But... That was pretty predicable from the day spring training started.  Last year's was more interesting and exciting because it had a first time Series participant.  A team that almost literally came out of nowhere to surprise everyone.  A team that spends a fraction of what the Yankees do.  Last year's Rays, while perhaps not as good, was infinately more interesting than this year's Yankees.  And then you had the Phils.  Who, yes, are a spendy team, but not nearly as spendy as the Yankees.  Plus the Phils have had a recent history of blowing it in the post season.  

Compare that to the yawn Yankees (again!) playing in the Series against a Philly team who was a tad more interesting as they were trying to be the first NL team to go back to back in 20 years..  And I think we know where the unbiased vote goes.

Now let's check out the Yankees in the '80's.

1980: 1st.
1981: 4th
1982: 5th
1983: 3rd
1984: 3rd
1985: 2nd
1986: 2nd
1987: 4th
1988: 5th
1989: 5th
And lets include 1990..
1990: Last.

Baseball's most prosperous decade to date had the Yankees finishing in 1st place once.

You so look at the world through Yankee colored glasses.
Really you have that wrong it should start from 1981,1980 should be part of the 70's. A Decade is every 10 years and you must start with Year one first year zero don't exist so 2001 was really the new millennium not 2000 like everyone thinks. But any team would love to be in the top 2-3 year after year of any sport is. IF they had the Wild Card in the 80's it would make the Yankees look even better they would of made the playoff more.  I'm making you look better.  But if you have a better win loss record in the 80's then every other team in sport that means they were not that bad they just couldn't win WS and the NL had the balance of power but in recent times AL  more dominate i.e Yankee vs Phillie's Yankee's beat the Phillie's in every which way and that could be why ratings are down also people just hate winners why Micheal Jordan and Tiger Wood are two of the most hated athlete ever people hate greatness. To make you look better So really that would make the Red Sox this team of the decade unless the Yankees win next  year that would give them the spot because they would be in the World Series four time making the record 2-2 .The real fight is AL vs NL its not Yankees vs other teams. NL was the first baseball league so there are more NL fans but with the domination of the AL people just don't like watching.

11/9/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
Really you have that wrong it should start from 1981,1980 should be part of the 70's. A Decade is every 10 years and you must start with Year one first year zero don't exist so 2001 was really the new millennium not 2000 like everyone thinks. But any team would love to be in the top 2-3 year after year of any sport is. IF they had the Wild Card in the 80's it would make the Yankees look even better they would of made the playoff more.  I'm making you look better.  But if you have a better win loss record in the 80's then every other team in sport that means they were not that bad they just couldn't win WS and the NL had the balance of power but in recent times AL  more dominate i.e Yankee vs Phillie's Yankee's beat the Phillie's in every which way and that could be why ratings are down also people just hate winners why Micheal Jordan and Tiger Wood are two of the most hated athlete ever people hate greatness. To make you look better So really that would make the Red Sox this team of the decade unless the Yankees win next  year that would give them the spot because they would be in the World Series four time making the record 2-2 .The real fight is AL vs NL its not Yankees vs other teams. NL was the first baseball league so there are more NL fans but with the domination of the AL people just don't like watching.
You see...  What you just did about the decade thing is called "nit-picking".  My point is still valid even with your nit picking.

No if there were a welfare card in the 80's it would not make the Yankees look better.  Assuming the schedule would be the same, they would still finish just as I showed.  

No, everyone DOESN'T hate winners.  Everyone hates winners who have unfair edges over other participants.  People tend to LOVE Tiger Woods.  And he wins more often than top golfers.  People loved Jordan too.  Guess what his teams did a lot of...  That's right.  WIN.

Your Yankee colored glasses really warp your view of the world.

11/10/09
0
ML31 wrote:
You see...  What you just did about the decade thing is called "nit-picking".  My point is still valid even with your nit picking.

No if there were a welfare card in the 80's it would not make the Yankees look better.  Assuming the schedule would be the same, they would still finish just as I showed.  

No, everyone DOESN'T hate winners.  Everyone hates winners who have unfair edges over other participants.  People tend to LOVE Tiger Woods.  And he wins more often than top golfers.  People loved Jordan too.  Guess what his teams did a lot of...  That's right.  WIN.

Your Yankee colored glasses really warp your view of the world.

Lol LOOOOK in the 80's the Yankees had more win then every other baseball team they just wasn't lucky enough to make the playoffs it wasn't bad it just wasn't the Yankees as they were in the past and these more recent time. This team is put on a high level more then any other teams in sport the idea that your a failure if you don't win the World Series it just hard for anyone to live up to. I think it funny that people want the most popular team in sports to be average its funny and to me it stupid. They make more money then every other baseball team period . So they should have a better team then most teams. The New York Yankees are the only baseball team worth over 1 billion dollars that more then team 2 and 3 combined and maybe even team 4 fact look it up. The only one of three teams in NY worth over one billion.

 

 

  • 1. Manchester United (soccer), $1.8 billion
  • 2. Dallas Cowboys (football), $1.6 billion
  • 3. Washington Redskins (football), $1.5 billion
  • 4. New England Patriots (football), $1.32 billion
  • 5. New York Yankees (baseball), $1.3 billion
  • 6. Real Madrid (soccer), $1.29 billion
  • 7. Arsenal (soccer), $1.2 billion
  • 8. New York Giants (football), $1.18 billion
  • 9. New York Jets (football), $1.17 billion
  • 10. Houston Texans (football), $1.17 billion

See only three other teams in American sports teams are worth more then the Yankees and one other in the world

They can have two more teams and both teams can have higher pay rolls then every other baseball team fact and the cost still wouldn't bother them. I have blinders on or have Yankee shaded glasses on ok. Let me put it this way if you have the most valuable business it would be stupid if you didn't sell the best products or just sell average products in that particular business. Anyway it just not good business to work in the middle if your at the top. It be dumb if they Yankee have all then money they didn't put out the best product they can have which is better then most teams can do. And as far as the Yankees having the highest payroll that only worked one time and that 2009. 1996-2001 teams had a more reasonable payroll still more then most baseball teams but not quit as bad. The team they got lucky with the players the brought up them selves they happen to have the best closer in the business every other closer and relief blew games only one guy didn't in the playoffs this post season you most likely know who he is. To me fan's need to layoff the Yankees and just support there teams and hope they can put out a better product next year to compete with the Yankees. The best way to make baseball better period is to just delete teams t words the end that go no where and will never go no where and let the teams in the middle be able to move to the top and maybe one day they can overtake the Yankees.

11/10/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

Lol LOOOOK in the 80's the Yankees had more win then every other baseball team they just wasn't lucky enough to make the playoffs it wasn't bad it just wasn't the Yankees as they were in the past and these more recent time. This team is put on a high level more then any other teams in sport the idea that your a failure if you don't win the World Series it just hard for anyone to live up to. I think it funny that people want the most popular team in sports to be average its funny and to me it stupid. They make more money then every other baseball team period . So they should have a better team then most teams. The New York Yankees are the only baseball team worth over 1 billion dollars that more then team 2 and 3 combined and maybe even team 4 fact look it up. The only one of three teams in NY worth over one billion.

 

 

  • 1. Manchester United (soccer), $1.8 billion
  • 2. Dallas Cowboys (football), $1.6 billion
  • 3. Washington Redskins (football), $1.5 billion
  • 4. New England Patriots (football), $1.32 billion
  • 5. New York Yankees (baseball), $1.3 billion
  • 6. Real Madrid (soccer), $1.29 billion
  • 7. Arsenal (soccer), $1.2 billion
  • 8. New York Giants (football), $1.18 billion
  • 9. New York Jets (football), $1.17 billion
  • 10. Houston Texans (football), $1.17 billion

See only three other teams in American sports teams are worth more then the Yankees and one other in the world

They can have two more teams and both teams can have higher pay rolls then every other baseball team fact and the cost still wouldn't bother them. I have blinders on or have Yankee shaded glasses on ok. Let me put it this way if you have the most valuable business it would be stupid if you didn't sell the best products or just sell average products in that particular business. Anyway it just not good business to work in the middle if your at the top. It be dumb if they Yankee have all then money they didn't put out the best product they can have which is better then most teams can do. And as far as the Yankees having the highest payroll that only worked one time and that 2009. 1996-2001 teams had a more reasonable payroll still more then most baseball teams but not quit as bad. The team they got lucky with the players the brought up them selves they happen to have the best closer in the business every other closer and relief blew games only one guy didn't in the playoffs this post season you most likely know who he is. To me fan's need to layoff the Yankees and just support there teams and hope they can put out a better product next year to compete with the Yankees. The best way to make baseball better period is to just delete teams t words the end that go no where and will never go no where and let the teams in the middle be able to move to the top and maybe one day they can overtake the Yankees.

Making the playoffs in the '80's wasn't about luck.  It was about being good.  So don't go there.  That's ignorant even for you.

The dollar value of the team is irrelevant for this discussion.  So stop wasting your time with that one.

We are not talking about cars of electronics.  We are talking about a sports league.  The product is ALL the teams.  Not just one.  A restaurant chain does not allow one franchise to suck up all the good chefs leaving all the other ones to barely get by.  Such a practice does not allow the chain, or business, to grow and make even more money.  

It depends on what you mean by "worked".  Seems to me it worked 12 of the last 16 seasons.   You speak of the players they brought up themselves.  That's fine.  But a lot of teams have brought up good players themselves.  The difference?  The Yankees can afford to keep them around.  Most teams can't.  And those that can usually have to pick and choose which one they can afford.  That's the difference. 

Think about it...  How much should a Royals fan back his team when he KNOWS before one pitch is ever thrown, that his team has a 1% chance of actually competing?  And if they do find lightning in a bottle, they KNOW it will NEVER last.  Why?  Because the team just can't afford it.  People aren't hating the Yankees so much as the failed economic system MLB has.  The Yankees are just the physical manifestation of it.  You can boo the Yankees at a game.  There is nowhere you can go to boo the terrible structure of MLB.

I tell you what...  Let's see how valuable the Yankees are when they are the one and only team in Major League Baseball.  They can declare themselves winners every year til the end of time.  I wonder how many people will come out to watch the Yankees play with themselves?

11/10/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Making the playoffs in the '80's wasn't about luck.  It was about being good.  So don't go there.  That's ignorant even for you.

The dollar value of the team is irrelevant for this discussion.  So stop wasting your time with that one.

We are not talking about cars of electronics.  We are talking about a sports league.  The product is ALL the teams.  Not just one.  A restaurant chain does not allow one franchise to suck up all the good chefs leaving all the other ones to barely get by.  Such a practice does not allow the chain, or business, to grow and make even more money.  

It depends on what you mean by "worked".  Seems to me it worked 12 of the last 16 seasons.   You speak of the players they brought up themselves.  That's fine.  But a lot of teams have brought up good players themselves.  The difference?  The Yankees can afford to keep them around.  Most teams can't.  And those that can usually have to pick and choose which one they can afford.  That's the difference. 

Think about it...  How much should a Royals fan back his team when he KNOWS before one pitch is ever thrown, that his team has a 1% chance of actually competing?  And if they do find lightning in a bottle, they KNOW it will NEVER last.  Why?  Because the team just can't afford it.  People aren't hating the Yankees so much as the failed economic system MLB has.  The Yankees are just the physical manifestation of it.  You can boo the Yankees at a game.  There is nowhere you can go to boo the terrible structure of MLB.

I tell you what...  Let's see how valuable the Yankees are when they are the one and only team in Major League Baseball.  They can declare themselves winners every year til the end of time.  I wonder how many people will come out to watch the Yankees play with themselves?

Sports are about composition and to me like the Royal and Pirate's and other teams if you can't hang with the big boys then just shut the team down. The fact is the Royals owner has more money then the main Yankees open his wallet it could be better. These teams fail they will always fail and nothing in the world can help them not fail. I don't care how long they been around if the Yankees was in the same boat get rid of the Yankees if you can't swim with the big fish get out or get Eaton. As for a restaurant chain which I worked with in the past there is a composition among chains and if for some reason a chain isn't working you get rid of it. This is heart braking but its business. What I been saying all along sports have just to many teams they just need to get rid of teams that are not working most likely they will never work. This will make some teams better because they will be able to draft higher. Also they will be able to get better free agents at a better price because less teams more player means lower salaries a good business model for years. As for making the playoffs it's always about luck, timing and skill. Phillies won the World Series last year they lost it this year. If you take the very same teams and played them next year Yankees could lose they could win people don't know. I'm 28 I was born in 1981 really I was to little to know what was going on when I became a teen I got into more sports so the teams then don't really matter to me. So I been spoiled the whole time though my bulls been poor for a while

11/10/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

Sports are about composition and to me like the Royal and Pirate's and other teams if you can't hang with the big boys then just shut the team down. The fact is the Royals owner has more money then the main Yankees open his wallet it could be better. These teams fail they will always fail and nothing in the world can help them not fail. I don't care how long they been around if the Yankees was in the same boat get rid of the Yankees if you can't swim with the big fish get out or get Eaton. As for a restaurant chain which I worked with in the past there is a composition among chains and if for some reason a chain isn't working you get rid of it. This is heart braking but its business. What I been saying all along sports have just to many teams they just need to get rid of teams that are not working most likely they will never work. This will make some teams better because they will be able to draft higher. Also they will be able to get better free agents at a better price because less teams more player means lower salaries a good business model for years. As for making the playoffs it's always about luck, timing and skill. Phillies won the World Series last year they lost it this year. If you take the very same teams and played them next year Yankees could lose they could win people don't know. I'm 28 I was born in 1981 really I was to little to know what was going on when I became a teen I got into more sports so the teams then don't really matter to me. So I been spoiled the whole time though my bulls been poor for a while

Dude, I need to call you out on something I normally never do.  You have GOT to read what you write.  Your writing is damn confusing.  I kinda get what you are saying but the reader should not have to interpret what you mean.  This has been going on the entire thread.  I mean, you have got to know what the difference between "composition" and "competition" is, right?  You capitalized "Eaton".  That was the final word of the sentence and the word I think you meant to use was "eaten".  I think you mean "heartbreaking" when you say "heart braking".  I'm not the world's greatest speller either.  But my God man...  You really need to check your work.

If MLB did what you suggest, contract all teams that can't spend like the Yankees, you would be left with one team.  How can a league grow with one team?  I guess they can be like the Globetrotters....

So when you say, "if for some reason a chain isn't working you get rid of it" I guess you mean that MLB ought to go out of business.  Because on the field, there is no fair competition.  It's not working so we should just get rid of it.  Remember, MLB is the chain and the club teams are franchises of the business chain.

Sure, making the playoffs at one time had a little luck involved.  Especially if the race came down to two or three teams at a similar skill level.  But the best teams still more often than not came out on top.  And, since the playoff field has been doubled, that luck factor has been shifted from the regular season to an even larger role in the post season.  But that is another subject all together.

11/10/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

I'm not talking about the teams that just can't compete with the Yankees no one can. I'm talking about teams who can't even compete with the middle of the road teams. Twins are not a big market team they make the playoffs. Rockies they make the playoffs among other teams even made the World Series like they Rays but just had to see down better teams which is hard to do. Padres, Pirates, Royals, Washington, among other teams like that can't compete with any team period. Look at the LA Clippers they never get anywhere they are in LA for heaven sakes it's basketball same thing a lot of team's in the NBA are in the same boat. That's why you just need to cut teams it won't work right away but it will make the league more competitive you can have better teams fuller ball parks because they can get better players people pay to see. I see tons of teams on TV the ball parks are empty. Not even the Yankees can be in the top bid for players year after year only 25 people on the roster at a time. The fact there would be also more players less bid wars and cheaper contracts teams would have less what I call filler players bad athlete just to fill a spot that can't be filled with a good player. Of course the best players among the bunch will always get top billing but tons of player that would go to only good teams normally that wouldn't go to a bad or middle team just because there would be less teams to go around and less money would be paid to him. 22 Fair to great teams it better then 32 bad to great teams with a lot of bad teams . As for my spelling I have a auto spell checker I'm not the best speller but I'm pretty good it just put it to something different I have to re read what I type which I didn't a lot of times.

 

11/10/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

I'm not talking about the teams that just can't compete with the Yankees no one can. I'm talking about teams who can't even compete with the middle of the road teams. Twins are not a big market team they make the playoffs. Rockies they make the playoffs among other teams even made the World Series like they Rays but just had to see down better teams which is hard to do. Padres, Pirates, Royals, Washington, among other teams like that can't compete with any team period. Look at the LA Clippers they never get anywhere they are in LA for heaven sakes it's basketball same thing a lot of team's in the NBA are in the same boat. That's why you just need to cut teams it won't work right away but it will make the league more competitive you can have better teams fuller ball parks because they can get better players people pay to see. I see tons of teams on TV the ball parks are empty. Not even the Yankees can be in the top bid for players year after year only 25 people on the roster at a time. The fact there would be also more players less bid wars and cheaper contracts teams would have less what I call filler players bad athlete just to fill a spot that can't be filled with a good player. Of course the best players among the bunch will always get top billing but tons of player that would go to only good teams normally that wouldn't go to a bad or middle team just because there would be less teams to go around and less money would be paid to him. 22 Fair to great teams it better then 32 bad to great teams with a lot of bad teams . As for my spelling I have a auto spell checker I'm not the best speller but I'm pretty good it just put it to something different I have to re read what I type which I didn't a lot of times.

 

But if you want a real competition, then you have to eliminate all teams who can't compete with the "big boys" or in this case, the "top dog".  The Yankees.  Which means that all teams not at their level should go.  This is not my thinking.   It is your reasoning. 
The Twins play in traditionally the weakest division i the Majors.  They have one team in the top ten of player salaries.  And that is a more recent phenomena.  They also are bucking the odds doing what they are doing.  Which can happen in this system.  People still win in Vegas as well.  Even though the deck is totally stacked in favor of the casino.  The Rox only make it because the playoffs expanded.  That is hardly a good example to use.  The Rays sucked for 10 years.  Then caught lightning in a bottle once.  The next season, back to mediocrity.  Without Yankee money, they simply cannot compete.  Padres, Pirates, Royals and DC are all teams who don't compete not because they are inept.  They don't compete because they don't have the money to.  Period.  If the Yankees didn't have the money they do, THEY would be grouped with those four.

You speak of the clippers, but just having a cap will not turn inept teams into winners.  You STILL have to know what you are doing.  Maybe if there was a cap, the four teams you mentioned would still suck.  But until then, the only conclusion we can draw is they suck because of a lack of money.  I'd like to find out for sure.  I'd also like to find out if the Yankees win because they have a strong front office, or do they win because they just outspend everyone?  No way to know under the current format.

Not even the Yankees can be in the top bid for players year after year only 25 people on the roster at a time

Actually, they can.  And it has happened.  In the old days, the Yankees would buy Browns and Senators starters just to sit on their bench.  And those teams would take the money just so they could meet payroll!  Not much has changed in MLB in the last 50 years it seems.

MLB is also dropping in popularity as it is.  How will it be good for the League to have even LESS a national presence?  That will create even more fans to NOT care about baseball.  You need to take those Yankee blinders off and see what is good for the game...  Not just what is good for the Yankees.

11/11/09
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ML31 wrote:
But if you want a real competition, then you have to eliminate all teams who can't compete with the "big boys" or in this case, the "top dog".  The Yankees.  Which means that all teams not at their level should go.  This is not my thinking.   It is your reasoning. 
The Twins play in traditionally the weakest division i the Majors.  They have one team in the top ten of player salaries.  And that is a more recent phenomena.  They also are bucking the odds doing what they are doing.  Which can happen in this system.  People still win in Vegas as well.  Even though the deck is totally stacked in favor of the casino.  The Rox only make it because the playoffs expanded.  That is hardly a good example to use.  The Rays sucked for 10 years.  Then caught lightning in a bottle once.  The next season, back to mediocrity.  Without Yankee money, they simply cannot compete.  Padres, Pirates, Royals and DC are all teams who don't compete not because they are inept.  They don't compete because they don't have the money to.  Period.  If the Yankees didn't have the money they do, THEY would be grouped with those four.

You speak of the clippers, but just having a cap will not turn inept teams into winners.  You STILL have to know what you are doing.  Maybe if there was a cap, the four teams you mentioned would still suck.  But until then, the only conclusion we can draw is they suck because of a lack of money.  I'd like to find out for sure.  I'd also like to find out if the Yankees win because they have a strong front office, or do they win because they just outspend everyone?  No way to know under the current format.

Not even the Yankees can be in the top bid for players year after year only 25 people on the roster at a time

Actually, they can.  And it has happened.  In the old days, the Yankees would buy Browns and Senators starters just to sit on their bench.  And those teams would take the money just so they could meet payroll!  Not much has changed in MLB in the last 50 years it seems.

MLB is also dropping in popularity as it is.  How will it be good for the League to have even LESS a national presence?  That will create even more fans to NOT care about baseball.  You need to take those Yankee blinders off and see what is good for the game...  Not just what is good for the Yankees.
Teams compete with the Yankees year after year. The Red Sox do, Angels and Phillies have 113 million dollar payroll and are in the playoffs year after year each winning a WS.. You don't need money to compete just have to be smart. Look Cubs, Tiger, Met's have over 100 pay roll for the most part they stink. If you can't get any better then those teams you shouldn't be in the Majors and there are worst teams then even them. Both San Frans teams never go anywhere. Yankees can pay for there mistake. They just gave about 75 million bucks to two player that didn't do anything in the majors. As for Baseball having less National Presence it will happen for a while but people will come back. Because with less teams it would be a better product period.

Baseball total payroll, 2008 to 2009

 
  Team 2008 payroll 2009 payroll
Yankees $209,081,577 $201,449,189
Mets $137,793,376 $149,373,987
Cubs $118,345,833 $134,809,000
Red Sox $133,390,035 $121,745,999
Tigers $137,685,196 $115,085,145
Angels $119,216,333 $113,709,000
Phillies $98,269,880 $113,004,046
Astros $88,930,414 $102,996,414
Dodgers $118,588,536 $100,414,592
Mariners $117,666,482 $98,904,166
Braves $102,365,683 $96,726,166
White Sox $121,189,332 $96,068,500
Giants $76,594,500 $82,616,450
Indians $78,970,066 $81,579,166
Blue Jays $97,793,900 $80,538,300
Brewers $80,937,499 $80,182,502
Cardinals $99,624,449 $77,605,109
Rockies $68,655,500 $75,201,000
Reds $74,117,695 $73,558,500
Diamondbacks $66,202,712 $73,516,666
Royals $58,245,500 $70,519,333
Rangers $67,712,326 $68,178,798
Orioles $67,196,246 $67,101,666
Twins $56,932,766 $65,299,266
Rays $43,820,597 $63,313,034
Athletics $47,967,126 $62,310,000
Nationals $54,961,000 $60,328,000
Pirates $48,689,783 $48,693,000
Padres $73,677,616 $43,734,200
Marlins $21,811,500 $36,834,000

11/11/09
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dragonzblade3232 wrote:
Teams compete with the Yankees year after year. The Red Sox do, Angels and Phillies have 113 million dollar payroll and are in the playoffs year after year each winning a WS.. You don't need money to compete just have to be smart. Look Cubs, Tiger, Met's have over 100 pay roll for the most part they stink. If you can't get any better then those teams you shouldn't be in the Majors and there are worst teams then even them. Both San Frans teams never go anywhere. Yankees can pay for there mistake. They just gave about 75 million bucks to two player that didn't do anything in the majors. As for Baseball having less National Presence it will happen for a while but people will come back. Because with less teams it would be a better product period.

Baseball total payroll, 2008 to 2009

 
  Team 2008 payroll 2009 payroll
Yankees $209,081,577 $201,449,189
Mets $137,793,376 $149,373,987
Cubs $118,345,833 $134,809,000
Red Sox $133,390,035 $121,745,999
Tigers $137,685,196 $115,085,145
Angels $119,216,333 $113,709,000
Phillies $98,269,880 $113,004,046
Astros $88,930,414 $102,996,414
Dodgers $118,588,536 $100,414,592
Mariners $117,666,482 $98,904,166
Braves $102,365,683 $96,726,166
White Sox $121,189,332 $96,068,500
Giants $76,594,500 $82,616,450
Indians $78,970,066 $81,579,166
Blue Jays $97,793,900 $80,538,300
Brewers $80,937,499 $80,182,502
Cardinals $99,624,449 $77,605,109
Rockies $68,655,500 $75,201,000
Reds $74,117,695 $73,558,500
Diamondbacks $66,202,712 $73,516,666
Royals $58,245,500 $70,519,333
Rangers $67,712,326 $68,178,798
Orioles $67,196,246 $67,101,666
Twins $56,932,766 $65,299,266
Rays $43,820,597 $63,313,034
Athletics $47,967,126 $62,310,000
Nationals $54,961,000 $60,328,000
Pirates $48,689,783 $48,693,000
Padres $73,677,616 $43,734,200
Marlins $21,811,500 $36,834,000
Wait...  In your post a few up you wrote...   I'm not talking about the teams that just can't compete with the Yankees no one can.  Now you are changing your tune on that?  The Angels win the division a lot and guess what?  They spend the most of any team in their division.  

Look, I have never claimed that money guarentees playoffs.  Nothing can do that.  But, what money does it increase the odds tremendously.  Not only that, but when a money team makes a money mistake, they can shrug it off.  They can absorb the hit.  If a low revenue team rolls the dice and throws a ton of money at a player and it turns out to be a mistake...  It can ruin the team for years.  The consequences of mistakes is just far far greater for the low revenue teams.  Therefore, they are not nearly as ready to pull the trigger on dishing the money out as a time like the Yankees are.

You are also mistaken about the game coming back.  It has a national presence now.  And the game nationally has never been as un-popular as it is today.  Unless certain things change, I do not see it coming back anytime soon.  And no, losing teams will not help.  It will make the game less popular.  Fewer people will watch.  And the all important national TV contracts will drop.  Meaning less money for the remaining teams.

What baseball needs to regain its former popularity is a few things... 

MLB needs to show they are doing something to address the existing competitive imbalance.  Something that will actually work.  Not this luxury tax nonsense.  Anyone with a brain knew that would do nothing.
MLB needs to bring the pennant races back.  (They became extinct when they created the 'welfare' card)
MLB needs to make the World Series and All Star Game (Their 'Jewell' events') unique and special again.  (ie: Interleague play must go)

If those three things are addressed, MLB will return to its former glory.

PS...  Why did you post the payroll list?  I have seen it before.  It doesn't seem to serve your post any.

11/11/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Wait...  In your post a few up you wrote...   I'm not talking about the teams that just can't compete with the Yankees no one can.  Now you are changing your tune on that?  The Angels win the division a lot and guess what?  They spend the most of any team in their division.  

Look, I have never claimed that money guarentees playoffs.  Nothing can do that.  But, what money does it increase the odds tremendously.  Not only that, but when a money team makes a money mistake, they can shrug it off.  They can absorb the hit.  If a low revenue team rolls the dice and throws a ton of money at a player and it turns out to be a mistake...  It can ruin the team for years.  The consequences of mistakes is just far far greater for the low revenue teams.  Therefore, they are not nearly as ready to pull the trigger on dishing the money out as a time like the Yankees are.

You are also mistaken about the game coming back.  It has a national presence now.  And the game nationally has never been as un-popular as it is today.  Unless certain things change, I do not see it coming back anytime soon.  And no, losing teams will not help.  It will make the game less popular.  Fewer people will watch.  And the all important national TV contracts will drop.  Meaning less money for the remaining teams.

What baseball needs to regain its former popularity is a few things... 

MLB needs to show they are doing something to address the existing competitive imbalance.  Something that will actually work.  Not this luxury tax nonsense.  Anyone with a brain knew that would do nothing.
MLB needs to bring the pennant races back.  (They became extinct when they created the 'welfare' card)
MLB needs to make the World Series and All Star Game (Their 'Jewell' events') unique and special again.  (ie: Interleague play must go)

If those three things are addressed, MLB will return to its former glory.

PS...  Why did you post the payroll list?  I have seen it before.  It doesn't seem to serve your post any.

I think for the most part the Cap is a bad idea NBA same bad teams are same bad teams no change, NFL same bad teams are same bad teams and if you take out the wild card that be even better for the Yankees means they have less games to play with this team they have now they can win every year that isn't cool.

If it was me I would Start spring training two week earlier then what it was before.

If you want to make it more watchable I say add two more wild cards in each league so there are six total wild cards. I would have four one City, two out of three playoffs between the 3rd division leaders and the wild card threes in a Wild Card Playoff, and wild card One and Two do the same you treat the 3rd Division Leader as like a proxy wild card of course the best teams would have the Three game playoff in there city. You give the 1st ,2nd Division Leaders Kinda a playoff bye but not really they just be on normal rest. Without a off day the winners go into the next round which is the normal Division Series.

But two outcomes can happen before that if the 3rd Division Leader Win's the Wild Card Playoff he plays Division Leader Two as like a reward playing the weaker Division Leader or if the WC team wins he plays Division Leader One punishment for being the last Wild Card. The second playoff Wild Card series will automatically play the team that the 3rd or last WC isn't playing. This would also start the playoffs early when baseball really most unwatchable September making a Wild Card Mini Playoff unless its a few teams down the wire which this past year only two team was down the Wire the Tigers and Twins. That means a lot of the smaller or medium market teams would have a shot to get into the playoffs and make each Division more of a fight. More ratings. After the Wild Card Playoff proceed with the normal baseball playoffs The Four Wild Card Playoff winner can play 5 straight days without a off day punishment for placing last.

11/11/09
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dragonzblade3232 wrote:

I think for the most part the Cap is a bad idea NBA same bad teams are same bad teams no change, NFL same bad teams are same bad teams and if you take out the wild card that be even better for the Yankees means they have less games to play with this team they have now they can win every year that isn't cool.

If it was me I would Start spring training two week earlier then what it was before.

If you want to make it more watchable I say add two more wild cards in each league so there are six total wild cards. I would have four one City, two out of three playoffs between the 3rd division leaders and the wild card threes in a Wild Card Playoff, and wild card One and Two do the same you treat the 3rd Division Leader as like a proxy wild card of course the best teams would have the Three game playoff in there city. You give the 1st ,2nd Division Leaders Kinda a playoff bye but not really they just be on normal rest. Without a off day the winners go into the next round which is the normal Division Series.

But two outcomes can happen before that if the 3rd Division Leader Win's the Wild Card Playoff he plays Division Leader Two as like a reward playing the weaker Division Leader or if the WC team wins he plays Division Leader One punishment for being the last Wild Card. The second playoff Wild Card series will automatically play the team that the 3rd or last WC isn't playing. This would also start the playoffs early when baseball really most unwatchable September making a Wild Card Mini Playoff unless its a few teams down the wire which this past year only two team was down the Wire the Tigers and Twins. That means a lot of the smaller or medium market teams would have a shot to get into the playoffs and make each Division more of a fight. More ratings. After the Wild Card Playoff proceed with the normal baseball playoffs The Four Wild Card Playoff winner can play 5 straight days without a off day punishment for placing last.

It makes perfect sense that a Yankee backer would not want a salary cap.  It shows that they have no faith in their team.  It shows they KNOW the only reason the Yankees are in a position to win year in and year out is because of their money.  A Yankee backing poo-pooing a salary cap is a completely selfish action.
You say the cap is bad for the NBA?  Wrong.  The bad teams remain bad not because of money.  But because they are run poorly.  That is what the salary cap reveals.  Those bad teams can never say "we don't have the money to compete".  Also, it allows for teams in low revenue markets to succeed.  Like San Antonio.  The NFL is a different animal.  But the cap does tend to make it so fans of bad teams can have hope.  Something MLB desperately needs.

So, you want to make the regular season even MORE worthless than it already is?  You must have never ever seen a pennant race.  They became extinct after the 1993 season.  That was something that made MLB unique to all other sports.  A do or die race with only the winner advancing.  It was GREAT!  Now, it doesn't exist.  Trust me, more playoffs will only turn more people off.  Part of the reason the World Series gets fantastically low numbers today is because the playoffs are so veeeerrrrrryyyyy  lllllloooooonnnnnnnggggggg.  The casual fan just gets turned off to that.  Die hards will watch anyway.  But there just aren't enough of them.  You need casual fans to watch for the numbers to go back up.  The Series went into November this year for the first time.  We implement your convoluted playoff, and it starts threatening to go into Thanksgiving!  The World Series needs to be over BEFORE Halloween at the absolute latest.  

Go back to two divisions in each League with only the Division Winners advancing to the World Series.  This will encourage good pennant races and keep the World Series contained in October.  The numbers will go back up.  No one wants to see more playoffs.

Yes, if the current economic structure remains intact, such a format does help the teams that spend the most in each division.  But that is why media revenue sharing AND a salary cap is needed to make this work.

I honestly believe what the public is starving for in baseball is a good old fashioned pennant race, and hope for their favorite teams.  Get that...  And MLB will rise again.

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Look I have faith in my team if you put or don't put a cap up most teams still wouldn't be able to afford players lol I don't think a cap would not bother the Yankees at all they would just have to.  And Then all you Yankee haters would still cry its not fair my team stinks the Yankees are always good then you hater would come up with something different Yankees are a smart team. LOL having the playoffs in September would make it more watchable. Look this year in Aug the playoffs was already set pretty much. And every year its the same teams over and over again not just the Yankees and every year its not your team in the playoffs. You can put on all the caps you want it won't matter if you put  100-150 Cap a lot teams still wouldn't be able to afford it. Look at the Cap in the NBA lol the Laker's are still one of the best teams in Basketball before and after the cap. Yankees will be one of the best teams before and after the cap. Look they already what I call the Yankee tax to try to bring down the Yankees. There would never be baseball if there was never the Yankee fast early part of 1900's Baseball was a struggle it really was on its way out then the Yankee bought Babe Ruth and baseball just blew up ever since its been popular world wide this is fact you can look this up its in history books. LOL I THINK EVERYTHING BASEBALL TRYS TO COME UP WITH IS REALLY BECAUSE THEY TRY TO BREAKDOWN THE YANKEES I DON'T SEE ANYTHING TAKING THEM DOWN.

11/11/09
2
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

Look I have faith in my team if you put or don't put a cap up most teams still wouldn't be able to afford players lol I don't think a cap would not bother the Yankees at all they would just have to.  And Then all you Yankee haters would still cry its not fair my team stinks the Yankees are always good then you hater would come up with something different Yankees are a smart team. LOL having the playoffs in September would make it more watchable. Look this year in Aug the playoffs was already set pretty much. And every year its the same teams over and over again not just the Yankees and every year its not your team in the playoffs. You can put on all the caps you want it won't matter if you put  100-150 Cap a lot teams still wouldn't be able to afford it. Look at the Cap in the NBA lol the Laker's are still one of the best teams in Basketball before and after the cap. Yankees will be one of the best teams before and after the cap. Look they already what I call the Yankee tax to try to bring down the Yankees. There would never be baseball if there was never the Yankee fast early part of 1900's Baseball was a struggle it really was on its way out then the Yankee bought Babe Ruth and baseball just blew up ever since its been popular world wide this is fact you can look this up its in history books. LOL I THINK EVERYTHING BASEBALL TRYS TO COME UP WITH IS REALLY BECAUSE THEY TRY TO BREAKDOWN THE YANKEES I DON'T SEE ANYTHING TAKING THEM DOWN.

Wow.  You just posted a pinata of ignorance.  No matter how one attacks this he will be rewarded.

Trust me, the cap would not be moved to the point above 29 of the 30 teams.  It would likely be moved closer to the mean.  Which last year was around $80 million.  How well do you think the Yankees would do if they had to slash their budge by $110 million?  Think that one through.   You can deny it all you want.  But the fact that you are a Yankee fan who is against a cap proves you know it is the money.  If you honestly believed the Yankees would do well spending less than 1/2 they do now, you would welcome a cap.  You are scared the Yankees wouldn't win.  I know it.  You know it.  Anyone who has read your posts knows it.

IF the Yankees were to continue to win with a cap and revenue sharing, then more power to them.  We would all be wrong about them.  I would freely admit it.  Too bad we will never find out.  Until then, the one and only one reason the Yankees do will is because they have more money.  Not because they are a good organization.

Why do you keep running back to the NBA?  The cap works there.  BTW...  The NBA does not have a hard cap.  They have a soft cap.  Meaning, teams are allowed to exceed the cap under certain conditions. 

You are wrong about baseball not existing without the Yankees.  Baseball existed before the Yankees and will exist after the Yankees.  If the American League was never created, Babe Ruth would have just played for some other team. 

The luxury tax was not created to "bring down the Yankees".  That is paranoia.  The tax was created to allow the teams that were bleeding money to get a small cash injection.  And that's all.  It had nothing to do with Yankee hating nor was it a tool to create a competitive balance.  All with a brain that worked properly knew the Tax would do any good on that front.

You know, if I were a Yankee fan and I honestly felt we had the best front office in baseball, I would welcome a cap and media revenue sharing.  Because I would want to end the idea that the Yankees win only because of money.  You don't want a cap.  You are afraid the Yankees will suck if they had to get by on a mere $90 payroll.  Admit it.

11/11/09
1
ML31 wrote:
Wow.  You just posted a pinata of ignorance.  No matter how one attacks this he will be rewarded.

Trust me, the cap would not be moved to the point above 29 of the 30 teams.  It would likely be moved closer to the mean.  Which last year was around $80 million.  How well do you think the Yankees would do if they had to slash their budge by $110 million?  Think that one through.   You can deny it all you want.  But the fact that you are a Yankee fan who is against a cap proves you know it is the money.  If you honestly believed the Yankees would do well spending less than 1/2 they do now, you would welcome a cap.  You are scared the Yankees wouldn't win.  I know it.  You know it.  Anyone who has read your posts knows it.

IF the Yankees were to continue to win with a cap and revenue sharing, then more power to them.  We would all be wrong about them.  I would freely admit it.  Too bad we will never find out.  Until then, the one and only one reason the Yankees do will is because they have more money.  Not because they are a good organization.

Why do you keep running back to the NBA?  The cap works there.  BTW...  The NBA does not have a hard cap.  They have a soft cap.  Meaning, teams are allowed to exceed the cap under certain conditions. 

You are wrong about baseball not existing without the Yankees.  Baseball existed before the Yankees and will exist after the Yankees.  If the American League was never created, Babe Ruth would have just played for some other team. 

The luxury tax was not created to "bring down the Yankees".  That is paranoia.  The tax was created to allow the teams that were bleeding money to get a small cash injection.  And that's all.  It had nothing to do with Yankee hating nor was it a tool to create a competitive balance.  All with a brain that worked properly knew the Tax would do any good on that front.

You know, if I were a Yankee fan and I honestly felt we had the best front office in baseball, I would welcome a cap and media revenue sharing.  Because I would want to end the idea that the Yankees win only because of money.  You don't want a cap.  You are afraid the Yankees will suck if they had to get by on a mere $90 payroll.  Admit it.
I had to Respect that just for the phrase "pinata of ignorance."

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With a Cap they would still be able to buy top free agents they would always be able to do that. They also would make it even cheaper for the Free Agent and the cap goes for other teams and you know what someone like Derek Jeter makes a year off field thats even before he even gets grass on the uniform for just playing in the city of New York millions and millions of dollars each year. NY is a media giant and players know they can make that kinda money here which is another advantage both the Mets and Yankees have. Look in the early 1900's -1920's MLB was in a down cycle they was struggling until Babe Ruth came to the Yankees look this up I watch and read a lot of stuff you not knowing your baseball history is a "pinata of ignorance." Maybe it should be popped like the big head of Barry Bonds. "Joking"Ruth really was the one guy who put Baseball on the map. And the Yankees worked with somewhat normal payroll in the past about 100 mil and won World Series they didn't have a 200 Mil payroll all the time. Cap works in the NBA you see the Knick's the past 10 years they stink. Make a hard cap that be better so every team has to spend a miniature $100 million dollar Max 150 payroll that would be the most fair. Follow the most popular Sport in the US NFL they have a Hard Cap

11/12/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
 

With a Cap they would still be able to buy top free agents they would always be able to do that. They also would make it even cheaper for the Free Agent and the cap goes for other teams and you know what someone like Derek Jeter makes a year off field thats even before he even gets grass on the uniform for just playing in the city of New York millions and millions of dollars each year. NY is a media giant and players know they can make that kinda money here which is another advantage both the Mets and Yankees have. Look in the early 1900's -1920's MLB was in a down cycle they was struggling until Babe Ruth came to the Yankees look this up I watch and read a lot of stuff you not knowing your baseball history is a "pinata of ignorance." Maybe it should be popped like the big head of Barry Bonds. "Joking"Ruth really was the one guy who put Baseball on the map. And the Yankees worked with somewhat normal payroll in the past about 100 mil and won World Series they didn't have a 200 Mil payroll all the time. Cap works in the NBA you see the Knick's the past 10 years they stink. Make a hard cap that be better so every team has to spend a miniature $100 million dollar Max 150 payroll that would be the most fair. Follow the most popular Sport in the US NFL they have a Hard Cap

With a Cap they would still be able to buy top free agents they would always be able to do that.

Dude...  Come on.  No one is THAT dim.  They would not be able to sign anyone if they were at or near the cap.  Do you even know what you are writing?

And why do you completely ignore what I have said?  I already addressed the Babe Ruth thing in a previous post.  If there were no Yankees Ruth would have played for someone else.  Get with it, chief.

You don't even know your own TEAM'S history.  For nearly their entire existence, the Yankees have paid more for their guys than any other team.  The total amount is relative.  If there is no cap, I promise you the Yankees will be the first team with a $300 million payroll.  

Why do you keep using the NBA?  Again, you completely ignore the facts in addition to what I write.  The Kicks suck because the cap keeps them from spending money on all the good players.  The Knicks are what the Yankees would be if MLB had a cap.  You have to know this.  You are frightened by it.  Afraid your Yankees can't dominate if the competition was more fair.

Your $100-$150 million range us absurd.  The mean is currently $80 million.  Why go so high?  Oh that's right...  To make it easier on your Yankees.  And a salary floor is a very very bad idea.  Such a thing would not allow teams to enter a rebuild mode.  It would cause some players to get overpaid and lock many teams into perpetual mediocrity.

11/12/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

First off what would really be better would be a Wage cap per playing position that would be better and it would stop a lot of the bidding wars and the player could choose what team he wants to play for rather then the Money. That be better and more fair then a Team Salary Cap. The real problem isn't the team salary but what the wages of the athlete gets. I know my history and who would of known what would of happen if Ruth went to another team. I agree the Yankees can have a 300 Million pay roll really they can have a 400 Million dollar payroll even more thats what I was told. So really teams are lucky they have just a 200 Million Dollar payroll. The Yankees can have Jason Bay, Halliday, Lacky. Figgons and  trade for Holiday and not even be bothered As for the Hard Cap Between 80-150 would be cool if its a cap I was just picking because not every team can even touch 100 Million I was not serious on that

11/12/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

First off what would really be better would be a Wage cap per playing position that would be better and it would stop a lot of the bidding wars and the player could choose what team he wants to play for rather then the Money. That be better and more fair then a Team Salary Cap. The real problem isn't the team salary but what the wages of the athlete gets. I know my history and who would of known what would of happen if Ruth went to another team. I agree the Yankees can have a 300 Million pay roll really they can have a 400 Million dollar payroll even more thats what I was told. So really teams are lucky they have just a 200 Million Dollar payroll. The Yankees can have Jason Bay, Halliday, Lacky. Figgons and  trade for Holiday and not even be bothered As for the Hard Cap Between 80-150 would be cool if its a cap I was just picking because not every team can even touch 100 Million I was not serious on that

No...  Salary cap per position makes no sense.   A general team salary cap allows for teams to mix and match where they want to spend and where they don't.  It does not lock a team into anything. 

BTW... Players already choose where they want to go.  And under a cap, they still could.  If they REALLY wanted to play in New York, but the Yankees (or Mets) were near the cap limit, they could simply take far less to play there than they could for some other team that had lots of cap room.  Completely fair for everyone.

Another great side effect of a cap is that if the cap is tied into how the game is doing nationwide, it would mean the players would have a personal stake in how the business is doing.  I mean, they essentially control what happens in the business anyway.  They should have a stake in it.  If business is down, the cap goes down.  If business is up, the cap goes up.  So, as the game does better, the players make more money.  It might case some players to think twice before dissing the fans.  Of course, this is also a reason why the MLBPA is against the cap.  They don't WANT any responsibility.  They want all the power but don't want a personal stake in the business.

And you are missing the entire boat for why a salary cap is needed.  It is to keep a good competitive balance.  I honestly do not care what the players make.  My whole thing is to make it so all teams have a shot.  If there is a system where all teams are even with all players making $50 a season, I'd be all for it.  If there is a system where all teams are even with all players making minimum wage, I'd be all for that too.  

11/12/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
    This year the Yankees will be under 200 Million Dollars was watching the hot stove. Salary Cap per position I think it would work people say only reason why Yankee get the player because they over pay if the player go to the Yankee still with a Salary Cap per position people can really stop crying. Top of that a Team Hard Cap of 80-150 a year like the NHL if you are over or under the cap you lose draft picks. No team can afford 50 Million dollars a year but the Yankee but I'm just saying.  I hate the Cap in Basketball and Football it stupid. I hate it if it was in baseball I think it would be dumb there are a lot owners richer then the Yankees put up or shut up.    

11/12/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
    This year the Yankees will be under 200 Million Dollars was watching the hot stove. Salary Cap per position I think it would work people say only reason why Yankee get the player because they over pay if the player go to the Yankee still with a Salary Cap per position people can really stop crying. Top of that a Team Hard Cap of 80-150 a year like the NHL if you are over or under the cap you lose draft picks. No team can afford 50 Million dollars a year but the Yankee but I'm just saying.  I hate the Cap in Basketball and Football it stupid. I hate it if it was in baseball I think it would be dumb there are a lot owners richer then the Yankees put up or shut up.    
You may think a position cap would work.  But you'd be wrong. 

And people are right.  The only reason the Yankees get the players they do is because they always offer the most money.  Period.  It a team salary cap, the Yankees could not do that unless they had room under the cap.  Just like everyone else.  A $150 million cap is ridiculous.  Considering only one team pays more than that.  It HAS to be low enough so ALL teams can have a shot.  

The cap in basketball and the NFL has been great for those leagues.   You have yet to provide one reason why you hate it.  It seems you just do for no reason.

There may be owners whose personal wealth is greater than the Steinbrenners.  But there is no team that makes money like the Yankees do.  We have been down this path before and you keep ignoring it.  It doesn't matter how much personal wealth an owner has.  All that matters is does the team make enough on its own to create a competitive product?  For 2/3 or the teams the answer is no.  Also, if owners of those teams pumped their own personal fortune into those teams they would soon not have a personal fortune anymore. 

Now please...  Unless you can counter that with a rational argument, drop the "richer owners who don't pay" crap.  It is a blind alley.  Worthless.  Meaningless.

11/13/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

Look most of what the Yankees put is a lot of personal Assets along with the Media assets among other things. Yes Network it self its worth over a billion dollars its self most valuable regional Network. I'm not saying the owners put money up the money every single year do it just to jump start the Team. And Start a fan base that will pay for ticket because you know your owners care about the product and knowing they are willing to do what it takes to win Like good old George there been years you can look this up he took a lost in the wallet just to make sure the team was ready to win. Main reason why people lose interest in the team is the simple fact they think the owners don't do what it takes to win. I hear it every day on Radio Mets won't put the money up. People want the teams to be like the Yankees and most owners can afford it. Remember Yankees was not the first team to have a 250 Million Dollar Contract Rangers tried it just didn't work. Yankees just took the contract over and at the time AROD was getting paid even less then Jeter at least by the Yankees.

11/13/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

Look most of what the Yankees put is a lot of personal Assets along with the Media assets among other things. Yes Network it self its worth over a billion dollars its self most valuable regional Network. I'm not saying the owners put money up the money every single year do it just to jump start the Team. And Start a fan base that will pay for ticket because you know your owners care about the product and knowing they are willing to do what it takes to win Like good old George there been years you can look this up he took a lost in the wallet just to make sure the team was ready to win. Main reason why people lose interest in the team is the simple fact they think the owners don't do what it takes to win. I hear it every day on Radio Mets won't put the money up. People want the teams to be like the Yankees and most owners can afford it. Remember Yankees was not the first team to have a 250 Million Dollar Contract Rangers tried it just didn't work. Yankees just took the contract over and at the time AROD was getting paid even less then Jeter at least by the Yankees.

Wrong.  The Steinbrenners put in ZERO personal assets into the Yankees.  (Apart from the initial purchase price)  They don't need to.  

Why do you keep repeating stuff that has been brought up before?  A YES type of network will not work in most markets.  Remember...  The Royals tried it and lost.  It is a combination of foolishness and ignorance to think that all teams can do what the Yankees do.  Please, stop repeating arguments I have already addressed.

Other teams have put up the money for players.  All have found they can't keep it up.  Even if teams make every decision correct, make all the right moves, there are many teams that will still not be able to maintain the high payroll. They simply can't do it.  Not because the owner is cheap.  Not because they don't make good decisions.  But because their team is  NOT  IN  NEW  YORK  CITY.   Again, please stop repeating your points.

Are you telling me that there are Met fans who think the Mets don't spend enough?  Good grief!  Those fans are just plain dumb.  There is no other word for it.  The Mets spent $149 million last year.  2nd only to your Yankees.  If they can't win with that then those running the team are either stupid or cursed.

Fans lose interest in their team because they know their team has no chance to win before the first pitch is even thrown.  They know that if their team ever gets a good player, they will lose him because their team cannot afford to keep him around.  All owners want to win.  And all owners do what they can to win. 

Trust me...  NO ONE wants their team to be like the Yankees.  People see the Yankees as what is WRONG with Major League Baseball.  People want their team to be part of the solution.  Not part of the problem.

You just admitted yourself that the Rangers tried to buy a player and it didn't work.  They gave out a Yankee like contract.  It was foolish and it hurt the team.  They tried to find someone willing to take Rodriguez off their hands.  No one would.  The only way they were able to get rid of him was if they paid some of his contract.  And you forget, the Red Sox were interested first.  But they needed to get him to take a pay cut.  But the MLBPA does not allow players to take the kind of cut the Red Sox were talking about.  Even if the player was OK with it.  Alex was getting paid WAY more than Jeter because the Rangers were, and still are, paying a part of his salary.

11/13/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

LOL no the Ranger are no longer pay the contract of A rod that was dealt with 2 years ago when the bailed out of the Contract. The Year the Red Sox won the World Series. He has a new contract paid for by only the Yankees now. People see the most popular team in Sports as what wrong with Baseball. The “MOST POPULAR TEAM IN SPORTS” NOT just America the World they are global they even have an Agreement with baseball china The agreement, the first such between a Major League Baseball (MLB) club and the CBA, allows the Yankees to send staff including coaches, trainers, doctors and scouts to China, while Chinese players will train at facilities overseas. The financial terms of the deal were not disclosed by Yankees executives, but it was indicated that a "significant" investment was involved. They are the first to have kinda like an over Seas Farm System. They had over 35 million viewers in Japan watch the World Series. I said the YES NETWORK WAS $1 BILL SORRY MAKE THAT 3. They have contracts with the NJ Nets and one of the most popular college football teams in the world really they are kinda the Yankees of College football Notre Dame. One of the best IV League Colleges Yale among other things college teams Penn State. They are even gonna have there own College Bowl. They even produce there own Products in house with the Dallas Cowboys. What they touch turns to gold they should be the model for business. They have baseball schools all over the world Mexico, DR, Puerto Rico among other Latin countries.


 


 

 


 

1. Alex Rodriguez 33,000,000


 

2. Derek Jeter 21,600,000


 

3. Mark Teixeira 20,625,000


 

4. A.J. Burnett 16,500,000


 

5. CC Sabathia 15,285,714


 

6. Mariano Rivera 15,000,000


 

7. Jorge Posada 13,100,000


 

8 a. Johnny Damon 13,000,000


 

8 b. Hideki Matsui 13,000,000


 

10. Robinson Cano 6,000,000


 

11. Andy Pettitte 5,500,000


 

12. Nick Swisher 5,400,000


 

13. Damaso Marte 3,750,000


 

14. Jose Molina 2,125,000


 

15. Jerry Hairston Jr. 2,000,000


 

16. Eric Hinske 1,500,000


 

17. Melky Cabrera 1,400,000


 

18. Brian Bruney 1,250,000


 

19. Joba Chamberlain 432,575


 

20. Edwar Ramirez 422,450


 

21. Brett Gardner 414,000


 

22. Ian Kennedy 408,925


 

23. Phil Hughes 407,650


 

24. David Robertson 406,825


 

25. Alfredo Aceves 406,750


 

26. Phil Coke 403,300


 

27. Jonathan Albaladejo 403,075


 

28 a. Francisco Cervelli 400,000


 

28 b. Mark Melancon 400,000


 

28 c. Michael Dunn 400,000


 

28 d. Ramiro Pena 400,000


 

You call that high payroll only 9 player were above 10 Million Only 3 Above 20 Mill other contracts aren't so bad if it wasn't for Arod they wouldn't look so bad be even with Arod and he was a trade then they give him a new contract wasn't really a free agent for say. Derek should have 20 mill he is Yankees baseball. So if it was not for three or 4 players they would look not so bad in the contract area. I'm really glad they are willing top out the money on the team unlike a lot of teams that just pocket the money. It fair to me you have like 10 other teams above 100 Million Dollars and they are only like 50 million dollars above the Mets pay roll. When they really can have a pay role of more then $400 a year.

11/13/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

1. Barry Zito    18,500,000 Biggest waste of about 20 Million Dollars ever   

11/13/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Wrong.  The Steinbrenners put in ZERO personal assets into the Yankees.  (Apart from the initial purchase price)  They don't need to.  

Why do you keep repeating stuff that has been brought up before?  A YES type of network will not work in most markets.  Remember...  The Royals tried it and lost.  It is a combination of foolishness and ignorance to think that all teams can do what the Yankees do.  Please, stop repeating arguments I have already addressed.

Other teams have put up the money for players.  All have found they can't keep it up.  Even if teams make every decision correct, make all the right moves, there are many teams that will still not be able to maintain the high payroll. They simply can't do it.  Not because the owner is cheap.  Not because they don't make good decisions.  But because their team is  NOT  IN  NEW  YORK  CITY.   Again, please stop repeating your points.

Are you telling me that there are Met fans who think the Mets don't spend enough?  Good grief!  Those fans are just plain dumb.  There is no other word for it.  The Mets spent $149 million last year.  2nd only to your Yankees.  If they can't win with that then those running the team are either stupid or cursed.

Fans lose interest in their team because they know their team has no chance to win before the first pitch is even thrown.  They know that if their team ever gets a good player, they will lose him because their team cannot afford to keep him around.  All owners want to win.  And all owners do what they can to win. 

Trust me...  NO ONE wants their team to be like the Yankees.  People see the Yankees as what is WRONG with Major League Baseball.  People want their team to be part of the solution.  Not part of the problem.

You just admitted yourself that the Rangers tried to buy a player and it didn't work.  They gave out a Yankee like contract.  It was foolish and it hurt the team.  They tried to find someone willing to take Rodriguez off their hands.  No one would.  The only way they were able to get rid of him was if they paid some of his contract.  And you forget, the Red Sox were interested first.  But they needed to get him to take a pay cut.  But the MLBPA does not allow players to take the kind of cut the Red Sox were talking about.  Even if the player was OK with it.  Alex was getting paid WAY more than Jeter because the Rangers were, and still are, paying a part of his salary.
 1. Barry Zito    18,500,000 Biggest waste of money ever

11/13/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

LOL no the Ranger are no longer pay the contract of A rod that was dealt with 2 years ago when the bailed out of the Contract. The Year the Red Sox won the World Series. He has a new contract paid for by only the Yankees now. People see the most popular team in Sports as what wrong with Baseball. The “MOST POPULAR TEAM IN SPORTS” NOT just America the World they are global they even have an Agreement with baseball china The agreement, the first such between a Major League Baseball (MLB) club and the CBA, allows the Yankees to send staff including coaches, trainers, doctors and scouts to China, while Chinese players will train at facilities overseas. The financial terms of the deal were not disclosed by Yankees executives, but it was indicated that a "significant" investment was involved. They are the first to have kinda like an over Seas Farm System. They had over 35 million viewers in Japan watch the World Series. I said the YES NETWORK WAS $1 BILL SORRY MAKE THAT 3. They have contracts with the NJ Nets and one of the most popular college football teams in the world really they are kinda the Yankees of College football Notre Dame. One of the best IV League Colleges Yale among other things college teams Penn State. They are even gonna have there own College Bowl. They even produce there own Products in house with the Dallas Cowboys. What they touch turns to gold they should be the model for business. They have baseball schools all over the world Mexico, DR, Puerto Rico among other Latin countries.


 


 

 


 

1. Alex Rodriguez 33,000,000


 

2. Derek Jeter 21,600,000


 

3. Mark Teixeira 20,625,000


 

4. A.J. Burnett 16,500,000


 

5. CC Sabathia 15,285,714


 

6. Mariano Rivera 15,000,000


 

7. Jorge Posada 13,100,000


 

8 a. Johnny Damon 13,000,000


 

8 b. Hideki Matsui 13,000,000


 

10. Robinson Cano 6,000,000


 

11. Andy Pettitte 5,500,000


 

12. Nick Swisher 5,400,000


 

13. Damaso Marte 3,750,000


 

14. Jose Molina 2,125,000


 

15. Jerry Hairston Jr. 2,000,000


 

16. Eric Hinske 1,500,000


 

17. Melky Cabrera 1,400,000


 

18. Brian Bruney 1,250,000


 

19. Joba Chamberlain 432,575


 

20. Edwar Ramirez 422,450


 

21. Brett Gardner 414,000


 

22. Ian Kennedy 408,925


 

23. Phil Hughes 407,650


 

24. David Robertson 406,825


 

25. Alfredo Aceves 406,750


 

26. Phil Coke 403,300


 

27. Jonathan Albaladejo 403,075


 

28 a. Francisco Cervelli 400,000


 

28 b. Mark Melancon 400,000


 

28 c. Michael Dunn 400,000


 

28 d. Ramiro Pena 400,000


 

You call that high payroll only 9 player were above 10 Million Only 3 Above 20 Mill other contracts aren't so bad if it wasn't for Arod they wouldn't look so bad be even with Arod and he was a trade then they give him a new contract wasn't really a free agent for say. Derek should have 20 mill he is Yankees baseball. So if it was not for three or 4 players they would look not so bad in the contract area. I'm really glad they are willing top out the money on the team unlike a lot of teams that just pocket the money. It fair to me you have like 10 other teams above 100 Million Dollars and they are only like 50 million dollars above the Mets pay roll. When they really can have a pay role of more then $400 a year.

I did not keep a daily tab on the status of Rodriguez' contract.  All I know was it was re-negociated when he was dealt to the Yankees with the Rangers paying for almost half his pay.  It's good for the Rangers that they are finaly out from under that albatross.

The Yankees are not the most popular team world wide.  You are foolish to believe that.  However, in addition to being the most popular baseball team, they are also the least popular.  If there was a salary cap, that hatred would drop.  As we know it is not the Yankees people hate.  It is the system that allows them to spend everyone else into oblivion.

The Yankees haven't cornered the market with international development.  The Royals have had a South African baseball camp for the last 5 or so years.  Other teams have done similar deals. 

Thank you for realizing that YES is something that no other team can do and is indeed one of the primary reasons the Yankees have so much more than every other team in the Majors.  YES is an argument in favor of revenue sharing and a salary cap.  For all the reasons you mentioned when blowing it up.

So...   Am I to understand that you are trying to show me that the Yankee payroll really isn't as high as people think?  Chief, that is spit take material.  You are trying to say that the billionaire up in Beverly Hills is really not as rich as people think because he only has 9 limos.   You have got to be joking, right?     right?

You know, even without A-Rod's pay the Yankees would STILL be $20 million ahead of the Mets.  And still almost $100 million ahead of the mean.  You know, 9 players making more $10 million puts that total ahead of EIGHTTEEN teams payrolls.  EIGHT-TEEN!!

Friendly advice...    I highly recommend you cease trying to prove that a $201 million payroll is really "not so bad."  That is a loosing cause.

11/13/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:

1. Barry Zito    18,500,000 Biggest waste of about 20 Million Dollars ever   

Sure.  That may be right.  Zito was a foolish signing.  And that move has pinched the Giants ability to spend.  Unlike the Yankees, if they make a $20 million mistake, they can blow it off and keep throwing more money around.

You know, you are justifying the Yankees the wrong way.  This is the argument Yankee fans ought to use...

"Yes, the Yankees spend more than everyone.  But they HAVE more than everyone.  There is no rule against high payrolls.  The Yankees operate within MLB rules." 

Then, you need to admit the real reason you don't want a salary cap.

"I, as a Yankee fan, am against a salary cap in Major League Baseball because it will keep my Yankees from using the biggest weapon they have in their quest to win every year.  It will force them to work within a much smaller budget closer to all the other teams.  This will make it more difficult for my Yankees to win.  And I, as a fan, do not like that."

Try going that route?  Honesty garners respect.

11/13/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
  No it wouldn't be bothered with a Cap but you know and I know that will never happen. With a cap they would still be able to get big ticket free agents. I really don't think it would bother them to much at all. Also I been watching a lot of Sport Center and other show there will be so many free agents and trades to the Yankee its not funny bet you that will get you angry. I Like the fact that at least one team is willing to do what it takes to win if they fail damn straight they will figure a way out. Yankees wanted Zito until we got Andy and we stop going for him lucky we did stop he one of the worst bust ever. Let trade Cain and Lincecum for A-Rod spot you 15 million so you can have the future home run king again. I'm a baseball purist and I don't like when baseball changes like baseball been fine way it is and it may be on a down cycle WS was rating high but it will return.   Winner of the All Star game gets home Field and its not even a serious game if it was the game would be played like a real game not a athlete gets two innings each just so a player can be seen thats stupid  Also every team has to have an All Star in it a lot players shouldn't be in it and let real winners in it

11/13/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
  No it wouldn't be bothered with a Cap but you know and I know that will never happen. With a cap they would still be able to get big ticket free agents. I really don't think it would bother them to much at all. Also I been watching a lot of Sport Center and other show there will be so many free agents and trades to the Yankee its not funny bet you that will get you angry. I Like the fact that at least one team is willing to do what it takes to win if they fail damn straight they will figure a way out. Yankees wanted Zito until we got Andy and we stop going for him lucky we did stop he one of the worst bust ever. Let trade Cain and Lincecum for A-Rod spot you 15 million so you can have the future home run king again. I'm a baseball purist and I don't like when baseball changes like baseball been fine way it is and it may be on a down cycle WS was rating high but it will return.   Winner of the All Star game gets home Field and its not even a serious game if it was the game would be played like a real game not a athlete gets two innings each just so a player can be seen thats stupid  Also every team has to have an All Star in it a lot players shouldn't be in it and let real winners in it
It is likely a cap will never happen.  But that would be because the MLBPA is a selfish and self serving organization who doesn't even have the best interest of their own members at heart.  Much less what is good for the game.

So, you are thinking that if there is a cap, the Yankees will be able to go over it?  Why would the Yankees be allowed to break the rules?  Would they buy exemptions?

So, you like the fact that your team has so much more resources that the season isn't even a fair fight?  How sporting of you.  Man, you must really fear a level playing field.  You know it.  I know it.  You may as well admit it.  You fear losing your advantage.  That's understandable.  But facing your fear is the best medicine for overcoming it.

Why trade for Cain and Timmy?  Why not just wait until they are eligible free agents and just buy them?  That's what the Yankees do, right?  Out spend everyone.   God knows the Yankees don't win because they run an efficient team.

11/15/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
  I see the distaste the Yankee isn't funny I love it really. Yankee would do fine with a Cap look the Best American League player this season wanted to be a Yankee he asked them if he can sign.  Guess what Mark only sign for an extra 13 million dollars for 8 years thats like $2 million extra that isn't a lot he wanted to be a Yankee. Fact is people want to play for the Yankee as for Holaday even Holiday wants to come here. You had the best baseball player for years you can't complain how we always get the best player when you had one of the best baseball players of all time though he was a Juice head.  

11/15/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
  I see the distaste the Yankee isn't funny I love it really. Yankee would do fine with a Cap look the Best American League player this season wanted to be a Yankee he asked them if he can sign.  Guess what Mark only sign for an extra 13 million dollars for 8 years thats like $2 million extra that isn't a lot he wanted to be a Yankee. Fact is people want to play for the Yankee as for Holaday even Holiday wants to come here. You had the best baseball player for years you can't complain how we always get the best player when you had one of the best baseball players of all time though he was a Juice head.  
Nice.  Each time I confront you with the truth, you run and hide behind the "hater" defense. 

As I told you, it's not so much that I hate the Yankees, it is that I hate the system.  The Yankees are the team that are capable of taking advantage of the system the most.  So they personify everything that is wrong with the system.

You know what?  If the Yankees paid me $13 million more than anyone else would, I'd say I wanted to work for them too!  Funny how all those players want to play for the Yankees yet the Yankees still offer them the most money by far!  I bet you think Sebathia would have signed with the Yankees if some other team offered $10 million more, don't you?  Saying you WANT to play for the team that gave you the most money by far is kinda part of the job.  When a player signs with the team that offered the most, they NEVER say it was about the money.  Ever.  If you don't know that then you are the most naive baseball fan in existence.  

True, the Giants had the best player of his time.  But, he WANTED to play for the Giants.  He could have gotten more elsewhere but stayed here. He grew up here.  His dad played here.  Only twice in his time here did he even get to the point where he filed for free agency.  The other times his contract came up, he signed extensions before that point.  The difference is, if the Giants had Yankee money they would have not only had Bonds, but every other good free agent out there too!  But they just couldn't afford it.
There are rare occasions when a player takes less to stay with a team.  Gwynn did it.  Ripken did it.  Even the lesser known Terry Steinbach did it when he took less to play in his home state of Minnesota and gave up the much higher A's offer.

You have to know that Tex, CC and Burnett would have NEVER gone to the Yankees if another team offered $2 more.  Gee, I wonder who Jeter would be playing for if the Yankees decided they could only afford $13 million instead of $21.  The Red Sox maybe?  What's that?  You say he would still play for the Yankees because he loves playing there?  Oh, that's rich!   That is just deranged thinking.

11/15/09
0
ML31 wrote:
Nice.  Each time I confront you with the truth, you run and hide behind the "hater" defense. 

As I told you, it's not so much that I hate the Yankees, it is that I hate the system.  The Yankees are the team that are capable of taking advantage of the system the most.  So they personify everything that is wrong with the system.

You know what?  If the Yankees paid me $13 million more than anyone else would, I'd say I wanted to work for them too!  Funny how all those players want to play for the Yankees yet the Yankees still offer them the most money by far!  I bet you think Sebathia would have signed with the Yankees if some other team offered $10 million more, don't you?  Saying you WANT to play for the team that gave you the most money by far is kinda part of the job.  When a player signs with the team that offered the most, they NEVER say it was about the money.  Ever.  If you don't know that then you are the most naive baseball fan in existence.  

True, the Giants had the best player of his time.  But, he WANTED to play for the Giants.  He could have gotten more elsewhere but stayed here. He grew up here.  His dad played here.  Only twice in his time here did he even get to the point where he filed for free agency.  The other times his contract came up, he signed extensions before that point.  The difference is, if the Giants had Yankee money they would have not only had Bonds, but every other good free agent out there too!  But they just couldn't afford it.
There are rare occasions when a player takes less to stay with a team.  Gwynn did it.  Ripken did it.  Even the lesser known Terry Steinbach did it when he took less to play in his home state of Minnesota and gave up the much higher A's offer.

You have to know that Tex, CC and Burnett would have NEVER gone to the Yankees if another team offered $2 more.  Gee, I wonder who Jeter would be playing for if the Yankees decided they could only afford $13 million instead of $21.  The Red Sox maybe?  What's that?  You say he would still play for the Yankees because he loves playing there?  Oh, that's rich!   That is just deranged thinking.
Fact is we really didn't want Mark but his interview went bad so he ask Cashman if he could join the Yankee's we just wanted pitching I really just though he was just an average player but he good I didn't think he that good.  He wanted to be a Yankee he was going to be a Red Sox until they did something to Mark he didn't like you don't follow a story good. I this depends on the team if the team stinks he will pass up the money also he just wanted to play east to be around his family more. Do you like the Red Sox, Angles or anything other team that has a higher payroll then yours. You think the Cap will help your team out your team been stinking for years no matter what you say about it they would spend there cap money stupidly. Derek he should get what he wants though he not as good he should get more then A Rod he is a true Yankee and no I don't think he would ever go to the Red Sox he one guy that looks at his image unlike you guy he cares what his spot in Yankee history like Mo. 

11/15/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
Fact is we really didn't want Mark but his interview went bad so he ask Cashman if he could join the Yankee's we just wanted pitching I really just though he was just an average player but he good I didn't think he that good.  He wanted to be a Yankee he was going to be a Red Sox until they did something to Mark he didn't like you don't follow a story good. I this depends on the team if the team stinks he will pass up the money also he just wanted to play east to be around his family more. Do you like the Red Sox, Angles or anything other team that has a higher payroll then yours. You think the Cap will help your team out your team been stinking for years no matter what you say about it they would spend there cap money stupidly. Derek he should get what he wants though he not as good he should get more then A Rod he is a true Yankee and no I don't think he would ever go to the Red Sox he one guy that looks at his image unlike you guy he cares what his spot in Yankee history like Mo. 
?????   Chief, you are so far gone it's unbelievable. 

I don't know why I am even bothering.  But here goes...

The Yankees needed a first baseman.  Tiexiera was the best free agent catch last year.  Rumor had it that he did want to play in the east.  But that didn't help the Yankees any.  They ponied up an offer that was longer and more money than anyone else.  The only other eastern team that showed an interest was, believe it or not, the Nationals.  NOT the Red Sox.  And the Yankees offer blew the Nats one out of the water.  If the Nationals had offered him the most, he would be playing for them.  That is a promise.  I know you don't believe that but it is the God's honest truth.  You are just so high on the Yankees it is preventing you from seeing the reality.  
I was hoping the Giants would offer up some coin for Tex.  He was a perfect fit for the team.  But they didn't even bother.  They did not want to get involved in a bidding war they knew they would lose.  Their budget was limited considering the bad free agent signings earlier AND they have a huge mortgage to pay on a ball park they paid for 100% themselves.  Something even the rich Yankees didn't do.  And they could have. 

Yes, a cap would indeed help my team.  It would help ALL teams who don't spend like the Yankees, Mets, Cubs and Red Sox do.  No it won't cause teams to not spend money stupidly.  Nothing can stop that.  But it will put all teams on a more even playing field.  Tell me, would you play a fantasy league where when you do your draft, one player has a budget that is twice as much as every other player?  Hell no. 

And chief, you didn't read and understand what I said about Jeter.  Pay closer attention.  I said IF the Yankees could not afford (I know that is a fantasy concept you can't understand...  Yankees not being able to afford someone, but go with it so I can make a point.) to pay Jeter as much as other teams could come contract time, Jeter would not, I repeat, NOT be a Yankee.  Because he would go where the money is.  It has nothing to do with image.  Players do not place image ahead of their paychecks.  Yankee players more than anyone.

I know you love your Yankees, but it is possible to be a fan and also be aware reality.

11/15/09
0
Wow, this has been entertaining to read, although Dragon's Yankees blinders are maddening.

I also had to laugh when you, Dragon, call yourself a "baseball purist." Now, ML I'd call a baseball purist. It's why he hates the Wild Card. Whereas you, Dragon, are, for one thing, an American League fan. And why not, it's just an extension of being a Yankees fan. Go with the side that's been winning most lately. But the truth is that if you're a real baseball purist, you would prefer the National League. The AL has been playing under different rules since 1973, a rule designed to artificially inflate offense and thus, theoretically, fan interest. The DH creates an entirely different game. More offense, yes, more "true hitters" 1-9 in the lineup. But also, pitchers have no fear to pitch inside because they know they're won't have to step up to the plate and face retribution. Also, managers have it easy in the AL. The chess moves that NL managers have to make in the late innings are one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game for real fans, and AL managers don't have to worry about any of that. Which also means that they need put little focus on bunting, sacrificing, the hit-and-run, stealing bases, and playing "small ball" because they can generally stock their lineups with sluggers. Yawn. All of which plays into my opinion that I stated on your other poll as to why in my mind Pujols is clearly the superior player compared to A-Rod.

11/15/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)

LOL the Yankees won the playoffs with mostly small ball station to station baseball im 28 I was not even around when they change the DH rule. Fact is when we are playing the NL parks we have a far worst disadvantage then the NL playing in the AL they get to put one better player on the field. Yankees have not won anything in Years until a couple weeks ago. Did you know Phillies hit more Home Runs then the Yankees they still lost. We play small ball against the Twins and Angle and also with our Defense we took alway there ability to play any kind of small ball our Defensive infield is as good as anyones. And Purist Yankees are one of the oldest teams in baseball the most successful team in America I'm a New Yorker you think I'm gonna pick the Mets who stink. They say injuries brought them down they stunk before that. I think Albert great he really great so is A-Rod they both are really great athletes. I wish he was on the Yankees but I guess having a first basemen who hit 39 home run and 120 something RBI's isn't bad. Fact the New York fan pick Jeter over Arod is Crazy A-Rod is far far better then Jeter. Only reason why AL has more power and everything because of the Yankee's they make it so other teams have to be powerful enough to compete and the league isn't only better but a lot better NL besides the Phillies stink once in a while a team gets luck but for the most part they have nothing on the AL.
 

11/15/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
  LOL you don't follow NY baseball do you. Fact is we traded for Nick Swisher to be the first basemen lucky we did get Mark. we was just looking for pitching which we got CC I didn't want AJ you can have him.  Derek would go to another team if they gave him a cheesy contract. I would also, I don't know if he would go to the Red Sox though. But they don't really like older players anyways. Tex might stick with the Yankees if it was the National paying him he said he wanted to play for a top team unless it was for stupid money but Yankees can match anything why people didn't try to get CC really they know if Yankees wanted him its all over. Like going to a fight knowing there no way you can win why go 

11/15/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
  

11/16/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
  I think without the Wild Card it would make it more easier for the Yankees to win World Series want it to be like years past were Yankees ran them off like water. Wild Card make it harder for a team to win everything I like it. And were has Yankees got beat most of the time in the Division Series that should praise you I know you crave the Yankee losing at anything. All this stuff is just to make it harder for the Yankee, The Yankee Tax everything man.   A cap would be another thing that Yankees will break may make the teams more even but it will make the teams more even which mean Yankees would still have a great shot and they know how to pick players.

11/16/09
0
jasonwrites wrote:
Wow, this has been entertaining to read, although Dragon's Yankees blinders are maddening.

I also had to laugh when you, Dragon, call yourself a "baseball purist." Now, ML I'd call a baseball purist. It's why he hates the Wild Card. Whereas you, Dragon, are, for one thing, an American League fan. And why not, it's just an extension of being a Yankees fan. Go with the side that's been winning most lately. But the truth is that if you're a real baseball purist, you would prefer the National League. The AL has been playing under different rules since 1973, a rule designed to artificially inflate offense and thus, theoretically, fan interest. The DH creates an entirely different game. More offense, yes, more "true hitters" 1-9 in the lineup. But also, pitchers have no fear to pitch inside because they know they're won't have to step up to the plate and face retribution. Also, managers have it easy in the AL. The chess moves that NL managers have to make in the late innings are one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game for real fans, and AL managers don't have to worry about any of that. Which also means that they need put little focus on bunting, sacrificing, the hit-and-run, stealing bases, and playing "small ball" because they can generally stock their lineups with sluggers. Yawn. All of which plays into my opinion that I stated on your other poll as to why in my mind Pujols is clearly the superior player compared to A-Rod.
You know, you refer to me as a "purist" when I don't think I am that "pure" when it comes to baseball.  I embrace changes to the game.  I do not wish to go back to bats with 3 inch handles.  Gloves with no webbing.  The dead ball.  I don't even have a problem with the DH existing in the American League while not in the National League.  I am all in favor of expansion when the time is right.  Yet I get labeled as a "purist" only because I hate the wild card and love (the long since dead) pennant races.

I'm just sayin'.

11/16/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
  LOL you don't follow NY baseball do you. Fact is we traded for Nick Swisher to be the first basemen lucky we did get Mark. we was just looking for pitching which we got CC I didn't want AJ you can have him.  Derek would go to another team if they gave him a cheesy contract. I would also, I don't know if he would go to the Red Sox though. But they don't really like older players anyways. Tex might stick with the Yankees if it was the National paying him he said he wanted to play for a top team unless it was for stupid money but Yankees can match anything why people didn't try to get CC really they know if Yankees wanted him its all over. Like going to a fight knowing there no way you can win why go 
Swisher wasn't traded for to play first.  His ability to play first was just a bonus or a back up if, by some miracle, someone offered more money to Tex.   They were going after Tex from day one.  There were no good free agent outfielders so they packaged the Swisher deal. 

I don't think Jeter would sign a cheezy deal.  I wouldn't either.  But I'm not surprised you would.  I'd want a solid deal.  One that payed good coin.  
It seems that you still aren't getting the point.  I honestly don't know if it is because you are intentionally missing it or are just not sharp enough to get it.  It must be the Kool-ade.  The team Jeter may have played for if the Yankees couldn't pay him that high amount doesn't matter.  The point is that at any point in his career, if some other team made it clear that they were willing to give Derek $2 more, he would sign with them.  It is not about the Yankees with these guys.  It is about the money.  You are blind to it if you think it is about the Yankee pinstripes.

Tiexiera would indeed be a National if they paid him more than the Yankees did.  And he would probably say he signed there for such and such reason.  But would never admit it was about the money.  No player does that.  Remember, when A-Rod signed with the Rangers, yeah it was the richest deal ever.  But he said it wasn't about the money.  He said he wanted to go somewhere where he had a chance to win.  Never mind the fact that the Mariners, the team he just bailed out on, just came off three division titles in 6 years.  Never mind the fact that the team he was going to sucked and whose future looked bleak even WITH him at short.

BTW...  What's all this "we" stuff?  What position do you play on the Yankees? 
Plus, who cares if YOU wanted AJ or not.  The Yankees did.  And paid him so huge that no one even came close.

BTW...  CC said he preferred to play on the west coast closer to his Bay Area home.  But guess what?  That Yankee money sure can change a man's tune on that!

11/16/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
  I think without the Wild Card it would make it more easier for the Yankees to win World Series want it to be like years past were Yankees ran them off like water. Wild Card make it harder for a team to win everything I like it. And were has Yankees got beat most of the time in the Division Series that should praise you I know you crave the Yankee losing at anything. All this stuff is just to make it harder for the Yankee, The Yankee Tax everything man.   A cap would be another thing that Yankees will break may make the teams more even but it will make the teams more even which mean Yankees would still have a great shot and they know how to pick players.
Believe it or not, my opinions and feelings on baseball matters are not ruled by how those things would affect the Yankees.  Shocked?

The welfare card does not make it harder to win the Series.  It only makes the outcome more random.

A cap would be another thing that Yankees will break

You mentioned this before.  Why do you think the Yankees will be allowed to break the cap (if one existed) while everyone else would be restricted by it?  Why why why?  Are you truly that out of touch?

If you think the Yankees would still have the best shot under a cap, then why are you afraid to support the cap?  I would think you would want to prove your faith was well placed.  
Of course, that is using logic.  Something that your Yankee kool-ade addiction seems to be suppressing.

11/16/09
0
(Edited by dragonzblade3232)
    Break meaning not break the rules but meaning they will break what ever you put in front of them. Baseball try to set something for the sole reason of Breaking the Yankees down. With a Cap they will play by the rule  They will still win World Series no matter what you put in-front of them. Yankees can't Break a rule set for the sole reason of breaking the Yankee they would be fined and everything not that they would pay fines Bud just as much of a Yankee hater as you are.  And if you get your way you will still cry and cry for something else maybe give the Yankees only 20 players and other teams 25 something. How come Attendance record high but last year ball parks are fuller in recent time Ratings are good.   

11/16/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
    Break meaning not break the rules but meaning they will break what ever you put in front of them. Baseball try to set something for the sole reason of Breaking the Yankees down. With a Cap they will play by the rule  They will still win World Series no matter what you put in-front of them. Yankees can't Break a rule set for the sole reason of breaking the Yankee they would be fined and everything not that they would pay fines Bud just as much of a Yankee hater as you are.  And if you get your way you will still cry and cry for something else maybe give the Yankees only 20 players and other teams 25 something. How come Attendance record high but last year ball parks are fuller in recent time Ratings are good.   
????   Huh?

What the eff are you on about?  Please clarify.  You aren't making any sense. 

A cap is not favored because people want to hurt the Yankees.  People favor it because they are tired of seeing the same 6 (rich) teams in the playoffs year after year after year.  Paranoid much?

11/16/09
0
ML31 wrote:
????   Huh?

What the eff are you on about?  Please clarify.  You aren't making any sense. 

A cap is not favored because people want to hurt the Yankees.  People favor it because they are tired of seeing the same 6 (rich) teams in the playoffs year after year after year.  Paranoid much?
I rewrote it. Better. But you forget you put a cap up the same 6 teams will be in the Playoffs year after year they are better not for the fact they can sign who ever they want. They Draft better also Yankees are loaded in the Farm System. So what next you will set something so the Yankees can't draft better Red Sox are loaded with pitcher for the next 10 Years Everyone the Angel bring up are good. You have two good pitcher that will be good for the next 20 years With a Cap they will play by the rule They will still win World Series no matter what you put in-front of them. Yankees can't Break a rule set for the sole reason of breaking the Yankee they would be fined and everything not that they would pay fines Bud just as much of a Yankee hater as you are. And if you get your way you will still cry and cry for something else maybe give the Yankees only 20 players and other teams 25 something. How come Attendance record high but last year ball parks are fuller in recent time Ratings are good.  

11/16/09
0
dragonzblade3232 wrote:
I rewrote it. Better. But you forget you put a cap up the same 6 teams will be in the Playoffs year after year they are better not for the fact they can sign who ever they want. They Draft better also Yankees are loaded in the Farm System. So what next you will set something so the Yankees can't draft better Red Sox are loaded with pitcher for the next 10 Years Everyone the Angel bring up are good. You have two good pitcher that will be good for the next 20 years With a Cap they will play by the rule They will still win World Series no matter what you put in-front of them. Yankees can't Break a rule set for the sole reason of breaking the Yankee they would be fined and everything not that they would pay fines Bud just as much of a Yankee hater as you are. And if you get your way you will still cry and cry for something else maybe give the Yankees only 20 players and other teams 25 something. How come Attendance record high but last year ball parks are fuller in recent time Ratings are good.  
Bud is not a fan of any team and he doesn't hate any team.  His only interest is to please those who employ him.  the 30 owners.  That's all.
Where have you been?  National ratings for MLB suck!  And have been falling steadilly for years.  National interest in the game is at an all time low.

You are also wrong about my reaction should the Yankees still win under a cap.  If they do, then they will have deserved a tip of the hat and a hearty "well done".

You seem to have a lot of faith that the same spendy teams who win now would still win under a cap.  I think some may still win.  Although the Yankees spend so much I just can't believe they would be one of the.  It will be a lot harder for them (the current spendy teams) to maintain that winning team year after year.  Thus, allowing more opportunity of other teams to reach the spotlight.  Which would be good for MLB.

What you call "Yankee hating" I call "Baseball loving".  You are being selfish while I am looking out for the entire institution of Major League Baseball.

28 hrs ago
0
ML31 wrote:
Wow.  You just posted a pinata of ignorance.  No matter how one attacks this he will be rewarded.

Trust me, the cap would not be moved to the point above 29 of the 30 teams.  It would likely be moved closer to the mean.  Which last year was around $80 million.  How well do you think the Yankees would do if they had to slash their budge by $110 million?  Think that one through.   You can deny it all you want.  But the fact that you are a Yankee fan who is against a cap proves you know it is the money.  If you honestly believed the Yankees would do well spending less than 1/2 they do now, you would welcome a cap.  You are scared the Yankees wouldn't win.  I know it.  You know it.  Anyone who has read your posts knows it.

IF the Yankees were to continue to win with a cap and revenue sharing, then more power to them.  We would all be wrong about them.  I would freely admit it.  Too bad we will never find out.  Until then, the one and only one reason the Yankees do will is because they have more money.  Not because they are a good organization.

Why do you keep running back to the NBA?  The cap works there.  BTW...  The NBA does not have a hard cap.  They have a soft cap.  Meaning, teams are allowed to exceed the cap under certain conditions. 

You are wrong about baseball not existing without the Yankees.  Baseball existed before the Yankees and will exist after the Yankees.  If the American League was never created, Babe Ruth would have just played for some other team. 

The luxury tax was not created to "bring down the Yankees".  That is paranoia.  The tax was created to allow the teams that were bleeding money to get a small cash injection.  And that's all.  It had nothing to do with Yankee hating nor was it a tool to create a competitive balance.  All with a brain that worked properly knew the Tax would do any good on that front.

You know, if I were a Yankee fan and I honestly felt we had the best front office in baseball, I would welcome a cap and media revenue sharing.  Because I would want to end the idea that the Yankees win only because of money.  You don't want a cap.  You are afraid the Yankees will suck if they had to get by on a mere $90 payroll.  Admit it.
I know I'm late to the party but "pinata of ignorance" may be the funniest thing I have ever read on this site.

 
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