Ben Roethlisberger Is The Most Overrated Player In The NFL

Another Win, And More Proof That Ben Roethlisberger Is Grossly Overrated

9/11/09 in NFL   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

I've said it before, and I will undoubtedly say it again. Ben Roethlisberger is the single most overrated player in the NFL today.

Despite an enormous pile of evidence that places him squarely in the top 10-12 out of NFL quarterbacks, people consistently try to place him in the top tier of elite quarterbacks in the NFL.

Last night's season opener was a great example of this. In a game where the offense struggled badly early in the game, largely due to Roethlisberger's play. There's no getting around it... Ben Roethlisberger played absolutely terribly to start the game, and it cost the Steelers a chance to put it away early.

Of course, when you read about the game in various recaps, you'll see very little mention of that, if at all. Instead, people are gushing about Ben Roethlisberger and his supposedly clutch performance.

I'm not going to sit here and bash him. I will readily admit that he stepped up his play in the second half, and was a much better game manager than he was in the first half. However, he did nothing to show that he's an elite quarterback. A good quarterback, yes. But not elite.

The good: Roethlisberger finished the game 33 for 43, with 363 yards, and his team won.
The bad: He threw only 1 TD, threw 2 interceptions, and took a HUGE sack that was entirely his fault, and took his team out of field goal position, which could have allowed them to win the game in regulation. And while his completion percentage and his yardage looks good, he only averaged 11 yards per completion. In 2008, that would have ranked 24th in the league, tied with Trent Edwards. So obviously his passes weren't deep, impressive passes. They were low-risk, dink-and-dunk passes, and the wideouts were expected to get yards after the catch.

In the end, there were definitely some good things about Roethlisberger's game last night, but overall he had a very average performance. The real keys to the game were the defense holding the Titans to only 10 points, and their special teams, who blocked a Rob Bironas field goal. Had it not been for that field goal block, the Titans could have won the game.

However, you still see titles like "Big Ben Does It Again". That post contains exactly zero mentions whatsoever of the special teams play, or any mention whatsoever of Troy Polamalu, whose play made a huge difference in keeping the Titans off the scoreboard early in the game.

In mainstream media, the trend is the same. "Clutch moments becoming old hat for Big Ben", according to Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports. He at least mentioned the blocked field goal, although he gave zero credit to the Steelers, and instead blamed only Bironas. And he at least mentioned the stellar play of Polamalu and Ben's horrific play in the first quarter, but that was hardly a footnote to the rest of the article, which did nothing but gush about how "clutch" Ben Roethlisberger is, and how he's a "mega-star" in the National Football League.

So why do people think that Ben Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback? There's one clear answer. Because he plays for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Plain and simple. Of course, that's not what they would say, if you asked them. They might talk about his two Super Bowl rings. They might talk about his 18 game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime. They might talk about his one Pro Bowl-caliber season in 2007, when he threw 32 TD's. They might talk about how "tough" he is. They might mention that "his" winning percentage is as good as anyone else through their first 5 years in the league.

They won't, of course, mention that the Steelers' defense has been one of the most elite defensive units in recent memory, and was the biggest part of their postseason success. They won't mention the fact that in order to orchestrate a 4th quarter comeback, you first must suck bad enough to be losing after the first 3 quarters. They won't mention that his performance in his first Super Bowl win was the single worst performance ever by a winning quarterback in the Super Bowl, or that his one positive contribution to that game (a rushing TD) was heavily disputed, in a game that had some very controversial officiating. They also won't mention that winning percentage is a team statistic, and should never be attributed to a single player.

Another thing that they probably won't mention is that the success of the Steelers, since Ben Roethlisberger has entered the league, has been inversely proportionate to the number of passes that he has thrown. In other words, the more he throws the ball, the more they lose. The less they rely on him, the more they win.

The Steelers are 15-0 in games where Ben throws less than 20 passes. They are 19-2 when he throws between 20 and 24 passes. When he throws between 25-30 passes, they are 11-5. When Ben Roethlisberger throws more than 30 passes, the Pittsburgh Steelers are 9-14... a losing football team.

So is Ben Roethlisberger really an elite quarterback? Absolutely not. He's a good quarterback, and I'm sure Steelers fans are satisfied with the results that they have seen in the past 5 years. However, there are several quarterbacks that could have accomplished the same thing, if they were in the same situation as Roethlisberger. They might not have the rings, but neither did Dan Marino. Is there any doubt that he's better than Roethlisberger? There shouldn't be.

For once, let's look at the situation with some semblance of reality, and place Ben Roethlisberger exactly where he belongs... squarely in the top 10 among NFL QB's. Any worse, and you're not giving him any credit. But any more than that, and you're just not paying attention.
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10/25/09   |   daretheygo

daretheygo wrote:
The most grossly over rated starting QB in the NFL the past 10 years is. #5 from the Phildelphia Eagles. Donavan McNabb. McNabb let a Rob Johnson led Offence that averages a pultry 18points per game with the Tampabay Buccaneers beat him. Whon in turn go on  and beat a Rich Gannon Raiders Team that would have lost to all 16 NFC Teams in that super bowl as badly as he played.

your tight... Brad..Rob... they both sucked !!

10/24/09   |   aerockyulhim

daretheygo wrote:
The most grossly over rated starting QB in the NFL the past 10 years is. #5 from the Phildelphia Eagles. Donavan McNabb. McNabb let a Rob Johnson led Offence that averages a pultry 18points per game with the Tampabay Buccaneers beat him. Whon in turn go on  and beat a Rich Gannon Raiders Team that would have lost to all 16 NFC Teams in that super bowl as badly as he played.

That was Brad Johnson you're thinking of

10/24/09   |   daretheygo

The most grossly over rated starting QB in the NFL the past 10 years is. #5 from the Phildelphia Eagles. Donavan McNabb. McNabb let a Rob Johnson led Offence that averages a pultry 18points per game with the Tampabay Buccaneers beat him. Whon in turn go on  and beat a Rich Gannon Raiders Team that would have lost to all 16 NFC Teams in that super bowl as badly as he played.

10/14/09   |   uwgb44   |   28 respect

(Edited by uwgb44)

Im putting the under over on the number of post for this thread at 350...Who wants some of that action??  Joking only of course.

10/14/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Ramon_R wrote:
roflmao

Stats are never an absolute truth, Pat. Look I understand you're young, you have plenty of time to let all of this sink in. But tell me, and be honest about it. Is Seneca Wallace a better QB than Eli Manning? Answer honestly. Look at that silly chart above and tell me that Seneca Wallace is a better QB than Eli Manning.  Some day, you'll learn that the only absolute truth is wins and losses. That's the only stat you could ever call an absolute truth.

As for Ben, even if I weren't a Steelers fan, I know good QBs when I see them play. There's a certain quality about good QBs that can't be duplicated by the lower tier. Whether or not you're willing to recognize that quality is on you. I can't tell you who to think is a great QB, but I can convince you that you're denying the facts when looking at certain QBs in the league. Your statement in calling Roethlisberger the most overrated QB and have nothing to back up your claim, even if you used stats to support that claim, was clearly a misguided attempt to get under the skin of Steelers fans. But you know what, it worked. And now, til the day you turn 50 years old, this debacle will be attached to you for cyber life. I feel for you young one, I really do. Steelers fans don't forget or forgive too easily. Ask Bradshaw.

No, stats don't lie. People lie, when they misinterpret those stats, but the stats themselves are always 100% true. If someone tells you that passer rating alone is the ONE thing that determines how good a QB is, then they are wrong. This is why you have no understanding of what I'm talking about.

And no matter how much you try to claim that you'd feel the same way if you weren't a Steelers fan, the bottom line is that you don't know. And most non-Steelers fans seem to agree with me.

Honestly, I don't care about how Steelers fans think of me. Most of them seem like completely crazed homers anyway, and are not interested in logical discussion. They have earned zero respect from me, so their opinion of me is entirely irrelevant.

10/13/09   |   Debacled

" Your statement in calling Roethlisberger the most overrated QB ....."

No, Ramone.  Pat didn't just say Roethlisberger is the most overrated QB in the league.  Rather, Pat declared Big Ben is the most overrated player in the entire NFL.

Pat has quite the sense of humor.

10/13/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

Pat wrote:
What did I edit? Did I take out anything that you said? Or did I just shrink the stats that you copied and pasted in order to try to get it to fit on the page? Calm down, big guy. It's my job to monitor and edit posts as necessary, whether it's for inappropriate content or formatting issues. I have no need to edit something because someone disagrees with me. If I edited out anything you said, feel free to elaborate, but I can assure you that I didn't. And if I need to edit further comments in the future, whether they be yours or someone else's, I will do so.

As for your argument, you're still completely missing the point. The mere fact that you brought up guys who only started 8 games last year demonstrates that perfectly.

Stats do not lie. They tell absolute truths. Nothing on earth is more truthful than accurate statistics. Some people twist statistics to try to skew their meaning and therefore provide inaccurate and/or flawed analysis, but the stats themselves are still true.

I understand that you're a Steelers fan, and you desperately want to believe that Ben Roethlisberger is a great QB. However, he hasn't yet proven that to be the case. No matter what ignorant and convoluted spin you try to put on my argument, the fact is that you haven't said a single thing that even remotely refutes anything I've said. Keep trying, though. It's entertaining. And you're proving to everyone that everything I say about Steelers fans holds true... at least about some of you.

roflmao

Stats are never an absolute truth, Pat. Look I understand you're young, you have plenty of time to let all of this sink in. But tell me, and be honest about it. Is Seneca Wallace a better QB than Eli Manning? Answer honestly. Look at that silly chart above and tell me that Seneca Wallace is a better QB than Eli Manning.  Some day, you'll learn that the only absolute truth is wins and losses. That's the only stat you could ever call an absolute truth.

As for Ben, even if I weren't a Steelers fan, I know good QBs when I see them play. There's a certain quality about good QBs that can't be duplicated by the lower tier. Whether or not you're willing to recognize that quality is on you. I can't tell you who to think is a great QB, but I can convince you that you're denying the facts when looking at certain QBs in the league. Your statement in calling Roethlisberger the most overrated QB and have nothing to back up your claim, even if you used stats to support that claim, was clearly a misguided attempt to get under the skin of Steelers fans. But you know what, it worked. And now, til the day you turn 50 years old, this debacle will be attached to you for cyber life. I feel for you young one, I really do. Steelers fans don't forget or forgive too easily. Ask Bradshaw.

10/13/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

aacwell wrote:
last years complete season stats

If I were you, I'd be embarrassed to even have posted that. Thanks for proving my point.

10/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

If you want this to end, you're not helping matters much by continuing to post, just saying.

10/13/09   |   aacwell

last years complete season stats

10/13/09   |   aacwell

1 Philip Rivers, QB SDG 478 312 65.3 4009 8.39 67 34 11 25 105.5 251
2 Chad Pennington, QB MIA 476 321 67.4 3653 7.67 80 19 7 24 97.4 228
3 Kurt Warner, QB ARI 598 401 67.1 4583 7.66 79 30 14 26 96.9 286
4 Drew Brees, QB NOR 635 413 65.0 5069 7.98 84 34 17 13 96.2 317
5 Peyton Manning, QB IND 555 371 66.8 4002 7.21 75 27 12 14 95.0 250
6 Aaron Rodgers, QB GNB 536 341 63.6 4038 7.53 71 28 13 34 93.8 252
7 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 380 251 66.1 3043 8.01 65 15 10 23 92.7 277
8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 450 276 61.3 3448 7.66 75 26 14 20 91.4 265
9 Jeff Garcia, QB TAM 376 244 64.9 2712 7.21 71 12 6 23 90.2 226
10 Matt Cassel, QB NWE 516 327 63.4 3693 7.16 76 21 11 47 89.4 231
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
11 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 434 265 61.1 3440 7.93 70 16 11 17 87.7 215
12 Shaun Hill, QB SFO 288 181 62.8 2046 7.10 48 13 8 23 87.5 227
13 Seneca Wallace, QB SEA 242 141 58.3 1532 6.33 90 11 3 14 87.0 153
14 Eli Manning, QB NYG 479 289 60.3 3238 6.76 48 21 10 27 86.4 202
15 Donovan McNabb, QB PHI 571 345 60.4 3916 6.86 90 23 11 23 86.4 245
16 Jay Cutler, QB DEN 616 384 62.3 4526 7.35 93 25 18 11 86.0 283
17 Trent Edwards, QB BUF 374 245 65.5 2699 7.22 65 11 10 23 85.4 193
18 Jake Delhomme, QB CAR 414 246 59.4 3288 7.94 65 15 12 20 84.7 206
19 Jason Campbell, QB WAS 506 315 62.3 3245 6.41 67 13 6 38 84.3 203
20 David Garrard, QB JAC 535 335 62.6 3620 6.77 41 15 13 42 81.7 226
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
21 Brett Favre, QB NYJ 522 343 65.7 3472 6.65 56 22 22 30 81.0 217
22 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 428 257 60.0 2971 6.94 70 14 12 32 80.3 186
23 Kerry Collins, QB TEN 415 242 58.3 2676 6.45 56 12 7 8 80.2 167
24 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 469 281 59.9 3301 7.04 65 17 15 46 80.1 206

10/13/09   |   aacwell

This needs to just end. Pretty much only steeler fans think is a god send. They thought tommy maddox and kordell stewart were amazing then bash them to this day. Tommy Maddox and his family were threatened because he was playing bad. SUCH GREAT FANS .. Watch a steeler game in a bar in pittsburgh. Ben throws a pick or gets sacked. All you hear is bench him he sucks bench him. Let him have another bad year like he did in 2006 and this conversation will end. Steeler fans are soooo great right. The main source of why i hate the steelers are their  fans. THEY SUCK 

10/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Post 313 and counting...

10/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

What did I edit? Did I take out anything that you said? Or did I just shrink the stats that you copied and pasted in order to try to get it to fit on the page? Calm down, big guy. It's my job to monitor and edit posts as necessary, whether it's for inappropriate content or formatting issues. I have no need to edit something because someone disagrees with me. If I edited out anything you said, feel free to elaborate, but I can assure you that I didn't. And if I need to edit further comments in the future, whether they be yours or someone else's, I will do so.

As for your argument, you're still completely missing the point. The mere fact that you brought up guys who only started 8 games last year demonstrates that perfectly.

Stats do not lie. They tell absolute truths. Nothing on earth is more truthful than accurate statistics. Some people twist statistics to try to skew their meaning and therefore provide inaccurate and/or flawed analysis, but the stats themselves are still true.

I understand that you're a Steelers fan, and you desperately want to believe that Ben Roethlisberger is a great QB. However, he hasn't yet proven that to be the case. No matter what ignorant and convoluted spin you try to put on my argument, the fact is that you haven't said a single thing that even remotely refutes anything I've said. Keep trying, though. It's entertaining. And you're proving to everyone that everything I say about Steelers fans holds true... at least about some of you.

10/13/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

(Edited by Ramon_R)

That's asinine, almost as bad as the author of this poorly conceived article. Hey look, there's more to being a QB than putting up astronomical numbers. If you're going to judge Ben by the numbers that Drew Brees or Peyton Manning are putting up, then you're probably right. Reason being, the systems they play in are vastly different than the one Ben is playing in. While their offense is built around the passing game, the Steelers system has always been about balance. So you're right, Ben doesn't have the ridiculous numbers  that Kurt Warner might have. He doesn't measure up to those stats because he doesn't necessarily have the opportunity to put up the same number of passes as they have on a weekly basis. That's not Steelers football.
Even as far back as Chuck Noll - Terry Bradshaw, they were about balance attacks. They were among the only teams in the NFL to have 2 1,000 yd rushers, while having a diverse passing attack. 

But let's say for example, we were to go by the numbers. I think you'd do yourself a favor by looking at his first 5 seasons again. It's been posted here before, look at the stats. If you're trying to convince somebody that Ben hasn't done well up to this point, you're not doing that good of a job. Now, in the original author of this bird cage lining's opinion, you're dead on. You couldn't be more correct. But even by your own argument, you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Going by your logic, Shaun Hill was a better QB than Roethlisberger last season. And so was Senneca Wallace. Going by your logic, last year Chad Pennington was better than Peyton Manning. Your trust in numbers proves my earlier point. Those very numbers would have you putting Matt Schub in the Pro Bowl over Matt Ryan. The point here is simple.

STATS LIE.

And it's fans like yourself that go by the numbers without realizing what conditions those numbers were created in, or the situation that were tied to those stats, you'd be more than happy to thrust a David Garrard into the HoF before you would Brett Favre. Based on stats, you probably think Eli Manning doesn't hold as much value as Kyle Boller. You can't trust stats without the foundation for those stats presented to you or known personally.


And Pat, don't edit my post again. If you can't handle the heat, keep your tail feathers away from the grill.The truth hurts,doesn't it? Nothing says I been defeated, more than editing somebody else's posts, right Pat? I guess I should blame Bill Belicheck for your ability to undermine the system. We learn from the best, don't we Pat?

10/13/09   |   aacwell

sljthuma wrote:
Big Ben is best. I wouldnt trade him for anyone. He fits the Steeler mold perfectly.Big Ben is God Sent.No more Tommy Madox. 2 Rings in first 5 years is best of all. More rings to come.Hall of Fame Big Ben.Steelers are a complete package, Troy Palamola, Hines Ward,Santonio Holmes,Heath Miller,Harrison, I would not want anyone else.Steeler Nation is what its called and its for a reason. The terrible towel blk and gold,I love it. Hey, and dont mess with the towel, the tiatns havnt won a game since the stomping of the towel. TJ whosyour mama did it and lost Carsen Palmer the next time they played and the Steelers won the Superbowl 40 XL. Big Ben is the man and anyone who says they wouldnt want him on there team is just jealous. All you dorks need to check yourself and come see me when you get 6 rings. Go Steelers and Get well Troy, we need you bad. We would be 5-0 if we never lost him. Thanks Steeler Nation for all the suport and go Steelers. Wooooooooooooooooooo, lets make it 7 this year and shut em all up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your missing the point. he doesnt have the statistics to be considered one of the greats. Look at the whole last season when you have defense who holds teams to an average of seven points per game and you need to make a 4th quarter comeback to win. when you throw only two more touchdowns then you do interceptions. when you play mr happy feet and hold the ball and get sacked more than neone in the nfl.  he had the worst performance in the history of the nfl in his first superbowl.

This year he's putting up good numbers but who have they played. A titans team that has no idenity and they had to beat them in overtime. a chargers team who is hurting on defense bad. who has really no defensive line. and the freaking detroit lions. Let me see him win games in the first 3 quarters on a regular basis against good teams and we can continue the conversation. And yes the steelers due have 6 super bowls and they are the greatest nfl team in history but that doesnt change the fact that they have a dooche bag quarter back who wants to change the teams identity. Then again its the media who blows him up ne ways who's fault is it really .

10/12/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

Jason Campbell @ #5 destroys your credibility my friend.

10/12/09   |   sljthuma

Big Ben is best. I wouldnt trade him for anyone. He fits the Steeler mold perfectly.Big Ben is God Sent.No more Tommy Madox. 2 Rings in first 5 years is best of all. More rings to come.Hall of Fame Big Ben.Steelers are a complete package, Troy Palamola, Hines Ward,Santonio Holmes,Heath Miller,Harrison, I would not want anyone else.Steeler Nation is what its called and its for a reason. The terrible towel blk and gold,I love it. Hey, and dont mess with the towel, the tiatns havnt won a game since the stomping of the towel. TJ whosyour mama did it and lost Carsen Palmer the next time they played and the Steelers won the Superbowl 40 XL. Big Ben is the man and anyone who says they wouldnt want him on there team is just jealous. All you dorks need to check yourself and come see me when you get 6 rings. Go Steelers and Get well Troy, we need you bad. We would be 5-0 if we never lost him. Thanks Steeler Nation for all the suport and go Steelers. Wooooooooooooooooooo, lets make it 7 this year and shut em all up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10/6/09   |   fantasybeast24

c'mon people. Steeler fans will say hes greatness. Everyone else says hes overrated. Of course Brady fans think hes trash.
As you can see this was started by Pat, a Boston Fanboy, who despises Big Ben. Why? Maybe because New England hasnt seen a lombardi trophy in a while.
This is classic talk that will never ever ever end.

10/6/09   |   fantasybeast24

jacksonmacdonald wrote:
 So overated ya he steps up BUT is not a all time QB like BRADY

of course said by a boston chump

9/24/09   |   uwgb44   |   28 respect

Wow we have hit the 300 mark can we get to 400??

9/22/09   |   laggman

Love 'em, hate 'em, that's your choice. I try not to get into their personal lives, I only care about what happens on game day. Their personal lives will take care of themselves. If by chance "Big Ben" is a jerk off the feild, then sooner or later he will get his "come-upence". Everyone with over-inflated egos WILL sooner or later EXPLODE!!! I've been a Steeler fan all my life and even I don't consider him as one of the great ones. The great ones have gotten the years under their belts not to mention the years of consistencey. He is good at what he does and with a few more years of marinateing AND maturization, he may be able to join that elite group of Steeler greats. To quote a phrase: ' that's just my opinion,I could be wrong'.

9/21/09   |   aacwell

Try being a Pirate fan this day and age living in pittsburgh and you would understand my bitterness towards the steelers lol

9/21/09   |   aacwell

Aside from him being "gods himself throwing a football as all the yinsers here in the burgh like to think" hes a total tool bag off the field. The National media and WDVE make him out to be this stand up guy... but if you would only here the stories of the everday pittsburghers who get the honor to meet him.. you wouldnt think the same about him. He is a total ass. and there are many stories about him to prove that. I dont care how many super bowls his TEAM wins or as everyone likes to think he wins. He will always be an overated tool bag.
Im from pittsburgh and have always lived here and happen to hate the steelers..And it all started when big bum worthleisburger got to tahn.  LETS GO BUCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9/19/09   |   rogercarver1960   |   126 respect

QBs who hold the ball for that extra second or two so their receiver can get open will make more big plays than those who throw on their first glance of the receiver.

9/19/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

Pat wrote:
If everyone is saying he's in the top 3 (many people do), and he's really not even in the top 5 (he's not), then he's overrated.

Your opinion (he's not top 5) doesn't make it a fact. Neither does mine. "Grossly overrated"? I just don't see that. Read my post right before the one you replied to. Remeber these are opinions. No one is right or wrong.

9/19/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Dubya wrote:
Yeah..I guess now I know... Grossly Overated means not in the top 3.

If everyone is saying he's in the top 3 (many people do), and he's really not even in the top 5 (he's not), then he's overrated.

9/19/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

Yeah..I guess now I know... Grossly Overated means not in the top 3.

9/17/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

Actually there are quite a few NFL anaylists that put Roethlisberger right around 5 on their lists. And these are people who played in the NFL. So its just an opinion. No one here is 100% right. To say someone is wrong for thinking Roethlisberger is in the top 5 isn't exactly having an open mind. Phil Simms, for an example of someone who played the QB position, seems to think Roethlisberger is a top 5 quaterback. Not sure he is breaking it down statistically when he was forming his opinion but rather watching him play. Anyway, for me once you get out of the top 3 it opens up for a lot of arguments. Brady, Manning,Brees then I bet everyone's list starts to have a lot of differences.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Sorry, Pat, let me be more clear. "backing up" your statement doesn't count if its your own opinion.

I meant, find me some proof. Not opinion.

I have provided several sources who rank NFL teams and their units for a living and ranked the Steelers O-line in the bottom five.

You have provided no proof only conjecture. Your definition of backed up comes nowhere close to mine.

And its your OPINION he is not an elite QB. Sorry for you but the majority of NFL minds don't agree with you. Its ok you don't have to be right 100% of the time.

Once again, I haven't seen these sources that you mentioned, and I'm not scrolling up to find them. Post them again, or stop patting yourself on the back for citing sources. My source is my personal observation of an awful lot of football games.

And you're actually not entirely correct. Most of the people who think he's elite are either Steelers fans, or people who automatically overrate the QB position by default.

As for your other comment, the fact remains that several other QB's beat up on that Cardinals defense pretty badly, and they weren't all great QB's by any stretch. You can make a big deal out of it being the Super Bowl, but that doesn't suddenly make the Cardinals defense any better.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Debacled wrote:
LOL, now you're chalking up Ben's SB winnind drive to the Card's crappy defense.  It must have been because of that crappy Ravens D then, that Big Ben was able to drive the Steelers 92 yards in Baltimore late in the 4th before chucking the game winner, sealing the division.

I guess that's the stuff of "the single most overrated player in the NFL today."


You funny man.

I'm not chalking it up completely to the Cardinals' crappy defense, but you have to realize that this was the same defense that got dominated by guys like Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb, Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Cassel earlier in the season. Let's just try to keep it in perspective before we pretend that drive was really that impressive.

9/17/09   |   Debacled

Pat wrote:
Yeah, because the Cardinals had such a great defense.

If he is better than anyone at avoiding sacks, then how does he take more sacks than anyone else? That doesn't make sense to me.

LOL, now you're chalking up Ben's SB winnind drive to the Card's crappy defense.  It must have been because of that crappy Ravens D then, that Big Ben was able to drive the Steelers 92 yards in Baltimore late in the 4th before chucking the game winner, sealing the division.

I guess that's the stuff of "the single most overrated player in the NFL today."


You funny man.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
And if Brady had a body like Giselle then he could finally wear those clothes he envies.

If, If, If.

Still waiting on you to back up any statements you have proferred on the Steelers O-line.

My point is that the scenario of which you spoke is completely irrelevant, because the situation is completely out of the quarterback's control once he leaves the field.

And if you notice, I have already backed up those statements. But like the typical Steelers honk that you are, you only read what you want to read. Just like you see what you want to see, and that's why you're convinced that Ben Roethlisberger is so great, despite the fact that he's really just a 17-TD, 15-INT type QB, with poor field vision, a slow release, and worse decision making skills than Brett Favre, which leads to him taking twice as many sacks as he needs to.

But don't worry... the Steelers have a good enough team that they're able to win despite their QB's weaknesses, so I'm not even sure why all you guys even care. So your QB isn't an elite QB... who cares? He doesn't have to be.

9/17/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

I got the O/U at 400 posts when people finally stop beating this thing into the ground.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Pffft...some "fan" you are.  How could you let it pass that two of the Patriots Super Bowl's Brady led the drive for the game winning field goal???  #1 Patriots fan my ass. 

Because he intentionally was very specific about the "game-winning TD drive" part. Personally, I think it's irrelevant, because as I pointed out earlier, there are a LOT more circumstances behind it than just the QB, but yes, you're right. Brady has been a part of a few Super Bowl-winning FG drives.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Well we will continue to disagree, as nothing in the last paragraph you said is a fact except a few stats that are not relevant to this discussion.

The fact is that Big Ben is a Top 5 QB. His O-line for the last 14 months has been one of the worst in the league and the Steelers have won many a game only because Big Ben was able to create something out of nothing.

Oh and he has still done something in the Super Bowl that Brady never has - lead his team to a game-winning TD drive.  And Big Ben now has one of the best endings to a Super Bowl ever.

As I've said before, if the Patriots defense didn't let Eli Manning, David Tyree and Plaxico Burress crap all over their secondary, then Tom would have one of those as well. So obviously it's a completely irrelevant statistic that has no real bearing on anything.

If you're going to scold me for mentioning "a few stats that are not relevant to this discussion", then at least don't turn around and do the same thing. No one likes a hypocrite.

And no, it's not a fact that Big Ben is a top 5 QB. It's a fact that he absolutely is NOT, because there are at least 5 QB's who are better than him.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
I see so you are still ducking the question - Can you prove your statement that the Steelers are not in the bottom 5 of the NFL in rankings of O-line.

I have quoted 3 sources. You quote none. Still waiting for proof and not your conjecture.

And thanks for trying to blur the question, but the Steelers were 23rd in rushing last year. Your comment about when they were Top 10 in rushing is irrelevant.

Please back up your statement that the Steelers O-line is not in the bottom 5 of the NFL in rankings.

They were 23rd in rushing, but that was after injuries decimated their RB's and they were left grabbing guys off the street. In the 3 years before that, they were 2nd, 3rd and 10th, not in that order. I'm not going to scroll up to see where you quoted these sources, but in a vast majority of cases, it's very difficult to gauge the quality of one offensive line vs another.

If you're going by sacks, then I think it's unfair to blame the linemen on sacks that Ben seems more than willing to take by holding onto the ball too long. If you judge it by running game, then they've been mostly solid since Ben's career started. But of course you're going to bash them, because you're a typical Steelers fan who sits there and disrespects the entire team regularly by pretending that Ben Roethlisberger is the only reason they ever win a game. Whatever.

All I know is when I watch the Steelers play, Ben Roethlisberger takes as many sacks that are his fault as he does because of his O-line. if he had better field vision and a quicker release, he could take less sacks. Brady, Manning and Brees are guys who excel in those areas.

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Pat, this comment is 100% wrong.

I am still waiting for you to prove your claim that the Steelers O-line is not in the bottom 5 in the NFL. Their run game has been broken since the beginning of last season. They rarely even use a FB in formations.

To claim that the Steelers and their offense is the same one they had when Bettis was there is ignorance of the facts.

When you can prove your claim about the Steelers O-line, then we will talk. Until then, I agree with the majority of NFL minds who put Big Ben in the Top 5.

Ben Roethlisberger led the league in sacks over a period of time in which the Steelers were consistently in the top 10 in rushing. I realize run blocking and pass blocking are two different things, but clearly the O-Line isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

And no, the comment isn't 100% wrong. Name another QB who matched Tom Brady's statistical output in 2007. Exactly... it has never happened... in ANY system.

9/17/09   |   1hosslover

wrote:
even with a "broken" run game, they won the championship, not bad , don't you think?

Right on Poppy!

9/17/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

bamf528 wrote:
He may not be the best overall, but this guy is a great QB. He is better than anybody else extending the play and avoiding sacks. Just watch the superbowl, my Cards threw some crazy blitzes at him but he would always get away!

Yeah, because the Cardinals had such a great defense.

If he is better than anyone at avoiding sacks, then how does he take more sacks than anyone else? That doesn't make sense to me.

9/17/09   |   bamf528   |   12 respect

He may not be the best overall, but this guy is a great QB. He is better than anybody else extending the play and avoiding sacks. Just watch the superbowl, my Cards threw some crazy blitzes at him but he would always get away!

9/17/09   |   judolphin

wrote:
judoplhin, your points are well taken.  While Pat can come off abrasive at times, I think he has a lot to learn as do we all about certain life things.  With that said though, Pat is a young man and has maturing to do.  I myself, did not really fully mature and become a decent person to everyone including my adversaries until I hit around 30.  Maybe Pat will read this and see that he has some things to work on himself with handling of others.....my guess is these things will anger Pat.  And Pat is still a young buck.  But in time after he gets over the anger part, he will grow from these things. 

You see, we all have areas to improve in how we handle others.  We all need to check ourselves and none of us should throw stones as we all live in the proverbial glass houses......

That is all I am saying.  Believe me, I have been frustrated with Pat myself at times.  But after going back and forth at times, I have seen points and I am not afraid to admit that at 20 years younger than me I have learned a few things from him.  We can all learn from each other.

OK...now you can all mock.  Lets get a nice rendition of Koombayah going shall we.  We do have to remember that it is all in good fun and sports, competition....the whole thing, is losing its purpose once we lose sight of that.

:) Well said.

9/17/09   |   JohnK59   |   14 respect

(Edited by JohnK59)

re: hmm - and yet the Pats were caught cheating??! i can't control what this FanIQ site starts with - it was relevant to your comment that was posted on whatever page I started with that had a link to your article - i appreciate a good debate too - but methinks you like to hear yourself talk...

9/16/09   |   judolphin

(Edited by judolphin)

Yes, but -- forgive me -- he does it by being a something of a jack-ass. Let compare him to Colin Cowherd, who is my favorite guy on sports talk radio. He makes people think and argue because he says things almost no one has said before, presenting things in ways you never thought of. Combine that with his confidence and arrogance, voila... interesting show.  I love it even though I disagree with half of what he says. Even when he's dissed Jacksonville, or Pittsburgh, he made me think, but I still had to respect his opinion.

So what I'm saying is, Pat is like Colin Cowherd without his positive characteristics. Sure he gets people to read and argue with him, but I don't think he's provoked too much thought. Burning down a straw man (few reasonable people argue Ben is BEST IN THE NFL) and watching people get pissed off because they're being misrepresented, or because his argument is presented in a condescending fashion, is not really something to take pride in.

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

judolphin wrote:
Funny, I think my Hummer analogy is a pretty intelligent observation.

Watch him guys, he uses a classic debate trick: he will respond to a paragraph full of good points by nitpicking on an unimportant detail that really had little to do with what the other person was really talking about. And if you disagree with him, he basically calls you stupid and/or blind without actually using the words "stupid" or "blind". (he has done this to dozens of other posters who didn't insinuate he owns a Hummer).

Of course you think the Hummer analogy is an intelligent observation. After all, you're the same person who thinks Ben Roethlisberger isn't overrated.

9/16/09   |   judolphin

Pat wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion. I'm not surprised, but usually people aren't so blatant about it.
(Edited by judolphin)

Funny, I think my Hummer analogy is a pretty intelligent observation.

Watch him guys, he uses a classic debate trick: he will respond to a paragraph full of good points by nitpicking on an unimportant detail that really had little to do with what the other person was really talking about. And if you disagree with him, he basically calls you stupid and/or blind without actually using the words "stupid" or "blind". (he has done this to dozens of other posters who didn't insinuate he owns a Hummer).

9/16/09   |   JohnK59   |   14 respect

Despite the fact you think you're doing your job - Ben is doing his job - it ain't pretty, but I'll take Ben any day of the week with the rest of the "TEAM" - Pittsburgh plays as a team - end of story!  And us Burghians and Burghian fans love the fact that after 6 super bowls, we're still the "underdog"...especially in the media and anal-yst's eyes.

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

JohnK59 wrote:
hmm - and yet the Pats were caught cheating??!

Yeah, and Michael Jackson died, too. However, much like your comment, it's completely irrelevant to the conversation. Thanks for playing, though.

9/16/09   |   JohnK59   |   14 respect

hmm - and yet the Pats were caught cheating??!

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

judolphin wrote:
251 comments and counting, huh?

So what you're saying is, you bought a REALLY BIG Hummer.

Thanks for acknowledging that you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion. I'm not surprised, but usually people aren't so blatant about it.

9/16/09   |   judolphin

Pat wrote:
So now you're insinuating that I have a small penis because I disagree with you? Wow... that's an interesting take.

Actually, my job is to get people talking about sports on this site. 251 comments and counting. Looks like I'm doing alright. The fact that I'm 100% correct is really just a bonus.
(Edited by judolphin)

251 comments and counting, huh?

So what you're saying is, you bought a REALLY BIG Hummer.

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

judolphin wrote:
Pat,

Brady's great and holds several NFL records. BR holds no NFL records.

The fact that (a.) you're not secure with this as a fan, and (b.) that you're so passionate about people saying BR is the 4th best QB in the league instead of 8th best QB (who cares?) leads me to this analogy:

What you're doing is the sports fan equivalent of a chubby 40 year old buying a Hummer. You're obviously compensating for something.

So now you're insinuating that I have a small penis because I disagree with you? Wow... that's an interesting take.

Actually, my job is to get people talking about sports on this site. 251 comments and counting. Looks like I'm doing alright. The fact that I'm 100% correct is really just a bonus.

9/16/09   |   judolphin

Pat wrote:
For the record, Tom Brady has played 7 full seasons. Ben has played 5. It's not unfair at all.
(Edited by judolphin)

Pat,

Brady's great and holds several NFL records. BR holds no NFL records.

The fact that (a.) you're not secure with this as a fan, and (b.) that you're so passionate about people saying BR is the 4th best QB in the league instead of 8th best QB (who cares?) leads me to this analogy:

What you're doing is the sports fan equivalent of a chubby 40 year old buying a Hummer. You're obviously compensating for something.

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

For the record, Tom Brady has played 7 full seasons. Ben has played 5. It's not unfair at all.

9/16/09   |   Debacled

Pat wrote:
Hahaha... he's 5-4 in those situations. Way to pull a random stat out of thin air and pretend it's relevant. The fact is that when a guy throws a ton of screen passes and short passes, that's not carrying the offense. No single player carried that offense.

For the record, the Patriots are 14-7 when Tom Brady passes 40+ times.

Yep, Brady is in a league of his own when tossing the rock 40 times a game.  But you must at least acknowledge, Big Ben is, by historical standards, extremely successfull when put in those situations.  As I mentioned before, look at how the Colts fair when Manning throws it that much.  Big Ben is in the top 12 all-time in these situations.

Is that indicitive of the most overrated player in the entire NFL?

I have no beef with your opinion Brady is better than Big Ben.  Its not even a fair comparison, really, since Ben hasn't been in the league nearly as long.   We'll have a much better perspective on that score in about 5 or so years.  However, to call Ben the most overrated player in the entire National Football League today is laughable.

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Yinzer wrote:
Thought you weren't comparing ben to tom?

I'm not. As you can see, there's no comparison there. Brady is far too good to even be compared to someone like Ben. I was just pointing out that fact.

9/16/09   |   Yinzer   |   1 respect

Pat wrote:
Hahaha... he's 5-4 in those situations. Way to pull a random stat out of thin air and pretend it's relevant. The fact is that when a guy throws a ton of screen passes and short passes, that's not carrying the offense. No single player carried that offense.

For the record, the Patriots are 14-7 when Tom Brady passes 40+ times.

Thought you weren't comparing ben to tom?

9/16/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

jasonseman wrote:
 LMAO. He isnt capable of carrying an offense? Did you watch thursday game? His Running game had less then 40 yards while he had over 360 yards passing. So who CARRIED that offense? Was it Parker and his 15 yards or whatever he had? OR was it Ben and his 363 yards passing against one of the best defenses and past D's in the NFL.

Oh year, there are 11 guys in the history of the NFL that have a winning record when throwing 40+ times. Ben Roethlisberger is one of those guys.

Hahaha... he's 5-4 in those situations. Way to pull a random stat out of thin air and pretend it's relevant. The fact is that when a guy throws a ton of screen passes and short passes, that's not carrying the offense. No single player carried that offense.

For the record, the Patriots are 14-7 when Tom Brady passes 40+ times.

9/16/09   |   jasonseman

Pat wrote:
If Ben Roethlisberger was a better QB, the Steelers would have had him throw the ball more. They (incorrectly) thought Tommy Maddox was capable of running a pass-first offense, so they let him throw 519 times in 2003. They KNOW that Ben Roethlisberger isn't capable of carrying the offense, so you'll never see him throw it that much.

Ben Roethlisberger is completely capable of playing QB for a team with a run-first mentality and a dominant defense. Anything else, and he's just not good enough.

 LMAO. He isnt capable of carrying an offense? Did you watch thursday game? His Running game had less then 40 yards while he had over 360 yards passing. So who CARRIED that offense? Was it Parker and his 15 yards or whatever he had? OR was it Ben and his 363 yards passing against one of the best defenses and past D's in the NFL.

Oh year, there are 11 guys in the history of the NFL that have a winning record when throwing 40+ times. Ben Roethlisberger is one of those guys.

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Once again, within a particular system, who knows how a certain player would have developed.  Take away Jerry Rice and John Taylor and Roger Craig and perhaps Montana does not have those numbers.  Take Brady out of the Patriot system and he does not have those numbers.  Perhaps Bledsoe does not get injured and Brady does not get the chance and languishes on the bench instead of getting the confidence he got from that season that has carried him throughout his career.  You NEED these hypothetical situations because they are relative to his career. 

In other news Brady entered into the system and they did tweak it after he took Bledsoe's job.  Just as the Steelers create a system for Ben, the 49ers created a system for Montana, the Packers created a system for Favre and so on.  It is all relative.  Who knows how it would have turned out for Brady had he not been in the Patriots system.  That is all I am saying.

That's fine. You are choosing to emphasize what you don't know, based on what may have happened. I choose to concern myself with what I know for a fact, based on real accomplishments and what has actually happened. Perhaps that's why I get it, and so many people don't.

9/15/09   |   1hosslover

(Edited by 1hosslover)

Big Ben, pre-madonna, yep. But what QB isn't? The ones that are not over rated are the ones that are over looked. If Big Ben doesn't blow his horn who will? (no answer needed lol)

9/15/09   |   Beaneaters   |   17676 respect

Kinda reminds of another QB who just kept winning, Troy Aikmen. Some QBs put up great fantasy football stats and never don a ring, some just find a way to win. Ben has another ring or two to win. Don't be a hater.

9/15/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
And I would make the same argument about Montana.  Revolutionary system at the time.  Bledsoe had career numbers in that system.  We will never know because it just guess work and statistical analysis.  If Ben were drafted by the Patriots we may be discussing him in the pantheon of great QB's.

You could make the argument, but at the end of the day, Joe Montana has arguably the best resume out of any QB in the history of the NFL, and top 3 at the very worst, and Brady is the closest we've seen to Montana. You NEED hypothetical situations to try to justify calling Ben Roethlisberger one of the best. No such rhetoric is needed with Brady. His accomplishments, between the individual ones and what he has done as part of a team, have far exceeded those of anyone else in the NFL today.

In other news, Bledsoe never played in the same system as Brady has had. The Patriots completely changed their system when Brady came in, and then continued to tweak it as he progressed as a QB. The system is nothing like it was with Bledsoe. Bledsoe had career numbers because he had a huge arm, and was on the Patriots in his prime. That's usually when guys have career numbers.

9/15/09   |   Mannysworld   |   121 respect

Ok its very clear neither side is going to ever convince the other of its point. Lets just say both are very good for their respective teams and leave it at that. One more post on here about this, and Obama is going to be inviting us all to the White House for a beer. Which would only lead to more fighting; you know he thinks that Cutler and the Bears are better than BOTH the Brady and the Patriots and Big Ben and the Steelers.

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
here we go again another year of my QB is better then Yours.  It is already old and its only week one

I'm not the one who compared Roethlisberger to Brady. That was one of your fellow delusional towel-wavers. I am very well aware that there is no comparison between the two.

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
I would disagree.  Statistics are just that.  Statistics.  And if you traded Brady into another system who knows if he would have the same success.  He did not truly blossom until he got to the Patriots.  He was an afterthought in the draft and became the starter due to Bledsoe being injured.  I would suggest many of these same mediocre players you mention may have similar success in the Patriot system.  Perhaps even Ben.  There is no arguing Brady has reaching unreal heights.  But to make the blanket comment that nobody else could do the same is pure conjecture.

I didn't say that no one could. I said that no one HAS. And remember, Montana was a sleeper in the draft as well. Draft position means very little. The bottom line is that there are very few quarterbacks in the history of the NFL who have accomplished what Tom Brady has accomplished. There are far more who have accomplishments that are similar to Ben Roethlisberger, and several of them are not very good quarterbacks.

9/15/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Pat wrote:
The difference is that we've seen several mediocre players succeed in similar systems to what the Steelers have now. We have seen QB's that we would all agree are average do pretty much the same thing as Roethlisberger does. We have never, in any system, seen a QB have the statistical success that Tom Brady has had, and Joe Montana is the only QB in the history of the game who has matched Brady's overall level of success.

here we go again another year of my QB is better then Yours.  It is already old and its only week one

9/15/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

Pat wrote:
The difference is that we've seen several mediocre players succeed in similar systems to what the Steelers have now. We have seen QB's that we would all agree are average do pretty much the same thing as Roethlisberger does. We have never, in any system, seen a QB have the statistical success that Tom Brady has had, and Joe Montana is the only QB in the history of the game who has matched Brady's overall level of success.

Just to give a couple examples of why you can blow your stats up your a$$.  Brady got to 50TD's because Belicheck never called off the dogs, sure, Brady still had to do it, but different coaches mentalities plays a large roll on stats.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007110500/2007/REG9/ravens@steelers#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore  <--- 1st half success  (less than 10 passes in second half)

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2006101509/2006/REG6/chiefs@steelers#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore <---- 1st half success (5 passes in the second half)

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2005091104/2005/REG1/titans@steelers#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-boxscore <--- 1st half success (2 passes in second half)

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:

Brady is a product of the Patriot system just as Ben is a product of the Steelers system.  As you say, you can throw all the stats out you want but they are both products of the system they play in.  People say you could put anyone at QB of the Steelers and they would have the same results and the exact same argument can be made for Brady.  If you dropped Brady onto the Lions or Rams would he be the same?  No.  Neither would Ben. 

The difference is that we've seen several mediocre players succeed in similar systems to what the Steelers have now. We have seen QB's that we would all agree are average do pretty much the same thing as Roethlisberger does. We have never, in any system, seen a QB have the statistical success that Tom Brady has had, and Joe Montana is the only QB in the history of the game who has matched Brady's overall level of success.

9/15/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

"You're never as good as you think you are and you're never as bad as "they" say you are."-Bill Cowher in many press conferences. As far as the Steelers being a run first team....If they still are they are not very good at it anymore. If it continues the way it has all of last season and now to start this season they will be relying on Roethlisberger more and more. To me it seemed they threw to set up the run against Tennessee. Just one game though.

9/15/09   |   Jubanator14   |   367 respect

9/15/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

Pat wrote:
You'd lose your last dollar.

You're probably right.  Pats would have won more championships with Ben.

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

dipstick wrote:
I would bet my last dollar that if you swapped Roethlisberger with Brady throughout Brady's career, there would be minimal difference in stats/championships.

If you swapped Brady with Roethlisberger throughout Roethlisberger's career, you'd end up with more games like the '07 loss to the Giants.

You'd lose your last dollar.

9/15/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

Pat wrote:
If Ben Roethlisberger was a better QB, the Steelers would have had him throw the ball more. They (incorrectly) thought Tommy Maddox was capable of running a pass-first offense, so they let him throw 519 times in 2003. They KNOW that Ben Roethlisberger isn't capable of carrying the offense, so you'll never see him throw it that much.

Ben Roethlisberger is completely capable of playing QB for a team with a run-first mentality and a dominant defense. Anything else, and he's just not good enough.

I would bet my last dollar that if you swapped Roethlisberger with Brady throughout Brady's career, there would be minimal difference in stats/championships.

If you swapped Brady with Roethlisberger throughout Roethlisberger's career, you'd end up with more games like the '07 loss to the Giants.

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

dipstick wrote:
Stats are stats, and you can't refute them, you can only look at them from an infinite number of angles.

Go and look at Roethlisberger's 1st half passing stats in his early years, and don't forget the Steelers mentality when it comes to winning (just have 1 more point, burn the clock with ball control/running offense) you'd see why Roethlisberger didn't have the passing numbers early on.

If Ben Roethlisberger was a better QB, the Steelers would have had him throw the ball more. They (incorrectly) thought Tommy Maddox was capable of running a pass-first offense, so they let him throw 519 times in 2003. They KNOW that Ben Roethlisberger isn't capable of carrying the offense, so you'll never see him throw it that much.

Ben Roethlisberger is completely capable of playing QB for a team with a run-first mentality and a dominant defense. Anything else, and he's just not good enough.

9/15/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

Pat wrote:
Marino's numbers dwarf Roethlisberger's early in their respective careers, and Elway was not considered a great QB early in his career. Also, notice that Ben has WAY less attempts than Marino or Elway. That's because the Steelers do NOT depend on him to carry the offense, like Marino had to do. Roethlisberger's a game manager. A better version of Trent Dilfer. That's it.

You can twist the stats to try to mean whatever you want, but the fact is that it's ridiculous to even dream of comparing Roethlisberger to Marino. If the Steelers somehow had Marino in his prime instead of Roethlisberger, they would have gone 19-0 several times.

Stats are stats, and you can't refute them, you can only look at them from an infinite number of angles.

Go and look at Roethlisberger's 1st half passing stats in his early years, and don't forget the Steelers mentality when it comes to winning (just have 1 more point, burn the clock with ball control/running offense) you'd see why Roethlisberger didn't have the passing numbers early on.

9/15/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Big Ben did just what big Ben always does makes plays and wins games.  Frankly it does'nt really matter what anyone thinks of big Ben us Steeler fans know what kind of quarter back he is and what we can expect out of him. 

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Marino's numbers dwarf Roethlisberger's early in their respective careers, and Elway was not considered a great QB early in his career. Also, notice that Ben has WAY less attempts than Marino or Elway. That's because the Steelers do NOT depend on him to carry the offense, like Marino had to do. Roethlisberger's a game manager. A better version of Trent Dilfer. That's it.

You can twist the stats to try to mean whatever you want, but the fact is that it's ridiculous to even dream of comparing Roethlisberger to Marino. If the Steelers somehow had Marino in his prime instead of Roethlisberger, they would have gone 19-0 several times.

9/15/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

(Edited by Pat)

I'm going to cut this short and simple for you, enough so that even Pat can make sense of it all.

The right side of Ben's offenisve line is NON-EXISTANT. It has been that way for the last 4-5 seasons now.

You can read on if you want to, or you can walk away knowing what you know of the Steelers O-line. Your choice, not holding you to the screen here.

You think it's about Ben holding on to the ball too long. I'd invite you to take a closer look at that O-line. Because of the play on the right side, plays are busted, regardless of it being a passing play or a running play. Once you do observe Ben's line, you'll soon realize that it's not that Ben is holding on to the ball, he's scrambling around because the defense has already came through to get him. All he's trying to do is prolong the play long enough for his receivers to get open, to make something out of nothing. Rob Johnson hung on to the ball too long, sitting in the pocket, not even attempting to throw. Ben's not hanging around in the pocket. What pocket? Ben wishes he had the pockets Johnson had with the Bills, right about now.

Okay, don't believe me. Let's ask a Philly fan what they think about our O-line. I can gaurantee you they'd laugh their asses off, remembering that defensive performance in Philly last year.  You don't want to believe what I'm saying here,

ASK  PHILLY FANS WHAT THEY SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THE EAGLES PLAYED THE STEELERS.


Most of the guys on that O-line, are still on the team today, starting no less, doing the same thing they've been doing: Allowing Ben to get hit, sacked and rushed into making bad passes down field. I have no reason for lies when it comes to the Steelers franchise or it's players. I only hope to share the thought I have as it comes to the sieve that is the rigth side of the line, in front of Ben and the RBs. The passing game and the running game has struggled side by side.

Why Steelers fans hold Ben in high standing? Simply put, he's been pretty damn good thus far this early in his career. He certainly measures up to some of the all-time greats at this phase of his career, not to mention he's already been in two superbowls. The only one to reach more superbowls is Brady, but you already knew that much. Again, you don't want to believe me, check out the chart below. It's a little old but it does give you a general idea. Great reading for stat honchos out there. Only wish I made this chart myself.

Roethlisberger

2004

196

295

66.4

2621

8.9

17

11

98.1

Roethlisberger

2005

168

268

62.7

2385

8.9

17

9

98.6

Roethlisberger

2006

280

469

59.7

3513

7.5

18

23

75.4

Roethlisberger

2007

214

320

66.9

2564

8

25

11

102.9

totals

 

858

1352

63.46%

11083

8.197

77

54

91.47

Notes: Comp% above 62 % 3 times, Qb rating above 98 3 times, YPA above 8 3 times

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QB

Year

Comp

Att

%

Yards

YPA

TD

INT

Rating

ELWAY

1983

123

259

47.5

1663

6.4

7

14

 

ELWAY

1984

214

380

56.3

2598

6.8

18

15

 

ELWAY

1985

327

605

54

3891

6.4

22

23

 

ELWAY

1986

280

504

55.6

3485

6.9

19

13

 

totals

 

944

1748

54.00%

11637

6.657

66

65

71.92

Notes: never broke 8 YPA in his career, only 25 TD's 4 times, 61% 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QB

Year

Comp

Att

%

Yards

YPA

TD

INT

Rating

Marino

1983

173

296

58.4

2210

7.5

20

6

 

Marino

1984

362

564

64.2

5084

9

48

17

 

Marino

1985

336

567

59.3

4137

7.3

30

21

 

Marino

1986

378

623

60.7

4746

7.6

44

23

 

totals

 

1249

2050

60.93%

16177

7.891

142

67

95.21

Notes: only 3 years in entire career with comp% above 61%

9/15/09   |   jronda56

More like grossly underrated, jealous.

9/15/09   |   Mannysworld   |   121 respect

joshwillis52 wrote:
The only reason I keep calling Brady names is mainly because I just don't like him because he seems way too arrogant and cocky to me. I do think that winning is a little overrated just because every player is in a different offense, but what I just my opinions off of is what they do with what they have. Roethlisberger has a good offense but he doesn't have or even close to the lo the o-line Brady does or have somebody like Randy Moss who can burn you deep almost every play. Manning I would say has as good of an o-line, but not recievers. Brees doesn't have near as good as Brady in either of those positions. The only reason I put Palmer ahead of him is because IF he can still play like he did in 06' then he is definitely better. He had Chad Johnson who obviously wasn't as good last year as he was in recent, but Houshmanzadeh wasn't exactly one of the top recievers back then as he is now and the Bengals line pretty much sucked compared to what Brady has had his entire career. Rivers to me has actually played better with a little a less to work with. I'm also convinced that the only reason Brady won two of his Super Bowls were because of the whole Spygate thing. The Rams were by far a much better team in in the first Super Bowl he won and so were the Steelers in the AFC Championship game in the second they won. The Pattsies had both teams defensive signals. The only reason I don't go as far as saying the Spygate thing was why they won the third championship is because nobody really knows if they had the Panthers or any other team they played in the playoffs signals they played to get there.

I have always never really liked Brady to begin with, but the thing that made me absolutley hate him in the end was that he thought it was really funny and stupid of Plaxico Burress to predict the Patriots would only score 17 points in the 07' Super Bowl against the Giants and then didn't even put up that many. That just made him look really cocky and an idiot for saying that.

First, thanks for clearing up your thought process for me. I still don't agree with it, but now I know where you are coming from. First I will say that the Pats O-Line is WAY overrated. Always has been. Koppen and Mankins are solid but thats it. Light is the most over rated player on the team. Any above average spped end kills him! (see Schoebal from last night.) I don't thin Pitts line is greatr, but I think they judge the lines on how mauch Big Ben gets hit/sacked. Remember, he holds on to the ball much much longer than either Manning or Brady so he is bound to take more hits. The recevers he has are also more possesion receivers, like Heinz Ward, who may run more complex routes to get open, rather than "speed" guys, who may break free quicker with simpler routes. This also means he needs to hold onto the ball longer. 
As far as having better recievers, he has only had great receivers the for one year. Moss and Welker came together the same year. before that he worked with "good" receivers like Troy brown, David Givens, David Patten, Jabar Gaffney. Hardly top quality receivers. Manning has had Wayne, Harrison, Clark, all Pro Bowlers. No comparison there.
Palmer is a good QB with tools as good as any of them, but he is not in either Manning or Bradys class when it comes to the total package.
And please get over the "Spygate" thing. Every team was doing it (even Jimmy Johnson and Parcells admitted to doing it in some form) they just got caught because of the COWard Mangini. In the SB win over the Rams it was an assistant to an assistant who watched (not taped) the ONE of the Rams paractices and came back with Marshall Faulk is returning kicks. The patriots had played them earlier in the year and went toe-to-toe with them, before losing late. THATS where they figured out if you beat the crap out of the Faulk, Holt and Bruce you could beat them. As far as the Steelers and their crying, there is no whining allowed from that side. For complete details on theri cheating please google "pittsburgh steelers, Steroids".  A quote from a former steeler:

"Then it was Jim Haslett’s turn to confess in 2005. The former Steelers player admitted he had been using steroids throughout his career and that he was not just the one who was doing some juicing. Haslett said that the Pittsburgh Steelers teams, from the 1970s to 1980s, had used steroids to dominate the sport."

Not saying they were the only ones, but I think you get my point. All teams will do whatever necessary to win..

9/15/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

tpg6362 wrote:
From where I sit right now at 7:55PM on Monday Night, ole Patsie here shouldn't count his Brady chickens before they are hatched. The lowly Bills are going toe to toe with the Patsies at the moment. It's early, I know, but thought I'd mention it. The good news is the throwback Patriots uni's are great. They should stick with the throwback and remove the newer ELVIS helmet from the lineup. 

You were saying?

Brady and the Patriots with another 4th quarter comeback... thanks in large part to Brady playing like crap in the first half. I was pleased with the end result, but not that impressed by Brady, who really only played well for about 5 minutes, and didn't go deep the entire game. Hopefully it's just rust after a year off.

9/14/09   |   tpg6362

From where I sit right now at 7:55PM on Monday Night, ole Patsie here shouldn't count his Brady chickens before they are hatched. The lowly Bills are going toe to toe with the Patsies at the moment. It's early, I know, but thought I'd mention it. The good news is the throwback Patriots uni's are great. They should stick with the throwback and remove the newer ELVIS helmet from the lineup. 

9/14/09   |   Captain_Chaos   |   287 respect

to Quote Super Troopers:

sniff, sniff.........smells like sex in here.

on a more serious note - relax everyone.

9/13/09   |   torontolui   |   112 respect

you seemed to be enthralled by stats , i suggest you watch the latest episode of america's game on the nfl network featuring the season of the steelers, the coach and ben acknowledge his faults on the field of play however the risk reward if you will makes ben successful ,

i don't live in pittsburgh, just a fan and won't lose any sleep about thinking what player is overrated , but it is clear that it bothers because you are a pats fan

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

jw1968 wrote:
And while his completion percentage and his yardage looks good, he only averaged 11 yards per completion. In 2008, that would have ranked 24th in the league, tied with Trent Edwards. So obviously his passes weren't deep, impressive passes. They were low-risk, dink-and-dunk passes, and the wideouts were expected to get yards after the catch.

2008 was his worst year in that category, yet he finished 11th.  His league rankings for the previous four years?  7th, 4th, 1st, and 3rd.  You used a stat from a single game to indict him as a QB and even better, you did it with a stat in which he's finished in the top four three times in five seasons and the top seven four times in five seaons.  Pathetic.

Right, but my point in that particular case was that while everyone was praising his performance in that game, it was NOT a good game... even by HIS standards, as you pointed out.

9/13/09   |   jw1968

And while his completion percentage and his yardage looks good, he only averaged 11 yards per completion. In 2008, that would have ranked 24th in the league, tied with Trent Edwards. So obviously his passes weren't deep, impressive passes. They were low-risk, dink-and-dunk passes, and the wideouts were expected to get yards after the catch.

2008 was his worst year in that category, yet he finished 11th.  His league rankings for the previous four years?  7th, 4th, 1st, and 3rd.  You used a stat from a single game to indict him as a QB and even better, you did it with a stat in which he's finished in the top four three times in five seasons and the top seven four times in five seaons.  Pathetic.

9/13/09   |   laggman

You know what? Stop hatin' Pat! You sound like your everyday run-of -the mill Cowboy fan(or whoever you root for)

9/13/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

Jubanator14 wrote:

Jub wins.

9/13/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

I like Jason Campbell to, but there is no way I put him in the top 5, or close to the top 10 for that matter because he has been very inconsistent. The Texans getting Schaub from the Falcons for only a 2nd round pick was a great move in my opinion, but he hasn't really done anything at all since being with the Texans because of injuries so I can't really consider him a top 10 QB. Not saying he won't be, but hasn't done it yet. I would consider Vick a better QB before the the dogfighting thing, but he has been out for two years and there is no way I consider him a better QB now since Schaub has at least been around the game and Vick hasn't. Garrard and Romo haven't done a whole lot either, but it's more than Schaub. I have been trashing Cutler even since he was traded to the Bears just because I can't wait to see him get knocked around by the Vikings defense, but he has definitely done more than Schaub also. Favre has obviously declined the last three out of four years, but he has also been better than Schaub, especially since he had the torn bicep.

9/13/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

Mannysworld wrote:
So you keep calling Brady names but why isn't he an Elite QB? I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your argument, but I don't understand your position. If you are saying winning is over-rated then how do you justify putting Manning and Big Ben in front of him? They win games too. If you say winning should be valued more then how do you explain  Brees, Palmer,and Rivers ahead of him? They haven't  won anything. If stats are important than only Manning should be in front of him. If stats aren't important than why is Brees so high. This list's logic is hard to follow. If you hate him for being over-hyped or sleeping with Giselle thats somethig different.

The only reason I keep calling Brady names is mainly because I just don't like him because he seems way too arrogant and cocky to me. I do think that winning is a little overrated just because every player is in a different offense, but what I just my opinions off of is what they do with what they have. Roethlisberger has a good offense but he doesn't have or even close to the lo the o-line Brady does or have somebody like Randy Moss who can burn you deep almost every play. Manning I would say has as good of an o-line, but not recievers. Brees doesn't have near as good as Brady in either of those positions. The only reason I put Palmer ahead of him is because IF he can still play like he did in 06' then he is definitely better. He had Chad Johnson who obviously wasn't as good last year as he was in recent, but Houshmanzadeh wasn't exactly one of the top recievers back then as he is now and the Bengals line pretty much sucked compared to what Brady has had his entire career. Rivers to me has actually played better with a little a less to work with. I'm also convinced that the only reason Brady won two of his Super Bowls were because of the whole Spygate thing. The Rams were by far a much better team in in the first Super Bowl he won and so were the Steelers in the AFC Championship game in the second they won. The Pattsies had both teams defensive signals. The only reason I don't go as far as saying the Spygate thing was why they won the third championship is because nobody really knows if they had the Panthers or any other team they played in the playoffs signals they played to get there.

I have always never really liked Brady to begin with, but the thing that made me absolutley hate him in the end was that he thought it was really funny and stupid of Plaxico Burress to predict the Patriots would only score 17 points in the 07' Super Bowl against the Giants and then didn't even put up that many. That just made him look really cocky and an idiot for saying that.

9/13/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

When Brady Roethlisberger Brees Manning Manning Rivers McNabb Romo....... gets 5+ seconds of spotless protection, he can carve any defense.

The thing is, each (elite) QB has excelled in their own given situations.  Brady has had excellent D's backing him up as much as Roethlisberger.  Romo and Brady arguably have had the best OL protecting them.  Warner has always benefitted from having an elite receiving corps.

When it comes to rating QB's it's all about personal opinion, I think we know where certain people stand.

9/13/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

Pat wrote:
The offensive line can not be blamed for all of the sacks. Everyone who has ever seen him play knows that he takes sacks that are no fault of his offensive line, more so than almost any other QB in the league. And even when the Steelers had a very good o-line, he was still getting sacked 40+ times.

In other news, my QB has 3 Super Bowl rings. But they aren't just his... they belong to the ENTIRE TEAM. Just so you know, it's possible to win without an elite QB. And the Steelers are proof of that.

Ah, you must be a Pats fans. Now the plot thickens.....

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2008/karma.htm

For one, you've already contradicted yourself. You can't possibly be a Top 10 QB and not be considered elite, not with two rings. Because whether you want to admit it or not, Ben got them to the big show, and as you've pointed out it took a team effort to win those Lombardi's, not a lone QB.

Ben may not be your wonder boy Brady, but I'll take Ben over him any day of the week and twice on Sunday, as far as the Steelers O-line is concern. Brady would not only struggle behind the current line Ben has, he'd sink to the bottom of the league. Quickly. Because it's a well known fact that Brady can't deal with too much pressure coming his way. If his O-line is falling a part, he chews them out and expects different results.

You won't see that from Ben. That's not who he is.  For one thing, Ben's O-line is already broken. He doesn't expect more than he has right now. He just makes do with what he has. Call Ben "The McGyver of QBs".  Because any QB that can win a Superbowl with that makeshift of an O-line is deserving of such a tag. The fact that he wins with that makeshift O-line, should make opposing defense sweat, when he does get to play behind an O-line worthy to field again. That should frighten the league. That should keep defensive coordinators up at night. If Ben ever finds himself behind a good O-line again, we're going to see the type of numbers he used to put up at Miami Ohio. We already have proof of that of him as a rookie. We know what he can do, he's already shown us what he's capable of, if you give him a decent line and some weapons to fire the rock to.

If you took Ben and put him behind the Pats O-line, I bet you'd sing a different tune. In fact, you'd probably sound like John Denver right about now. I'm just saying that while nobody has ever accused Ben of being  THE best QB, to say he's overrated because of the play without considering the play of his O-line, is a fallacy. In fact, Ben doesn't get enough credit for the job he does behind that line. You couldn't put Joe Montana at the peak of his career behind that line and get better results. Not with the line Ben has dealt with the last 4-5 years. The last good line Ben had was his rookie season. That's a long ways from what he's dealing with right now. And you're lying to yourself if Ben isn't at the very least #5 on the list of top rated QBs in the league. Who else is there after Brady, Peyton, Warner and Brees?

Donnavan McNabb? You'd put McNabb ahead of Roethlisberger? A QB that has proved himself to be a choke artist, ahead of somebody that, 9/10 is as solid as a rock when the pressure is on? Put Roethlisberger behind that line Mcnabb has, i bet you anything Philly fans would riot every other season after a Superbowl win. I'd even put money down on that.

Philip Rivers: You'd take Rivers over Roethlisberger? Rivers can barely make do with the weapons he has right now. And contrary to popular belief, the Chargers have more weapons than the Steelers do, particularly in the passing game. He also has a better O-line. Now put Roethlisberger behind the Chargers line. At the very least you're going to see a stat line like this 320yds 21/28 3 TDs 0 INTs . You wanna know why? Ben doesn't play favorites, Ben plays with what he has. And while he has Holmes, Miller and Ward, there's not very much else behind them right now. Now compare that to what Rivers have. You see it now?

Hey look, I'm not trying to bust that huge head of yours after your ENTIRE TEAM won the Superbowl 3 times already. Because as far as I'm concern 2 of those wins are in dispute, seeing how your head coach had to deal with "Spy Gate" and the other one, you shouldn't even have been there to begin with, considering the TUCK RULE and all. Let's put this Pittsburgh envy to rest. Respect the game. Okay?

2 rings in this decade, and it's not over with yet. Just saying, despite the O-line.....Nobody could do it better, not with an O-line that resembles a fishnet trying to hold water....

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
Once again, you obviously did not read it very well, and are just filling in the blanks with what you think I'm saying. That's why you can't just admit that I am 100% correct.

The day you are 100% correct with anything to do with the Steelers will be the day hell freezes over, goodnight.

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Out of curiosity, which of these is the ONE sentence where I give him credit?

"I will readily admit that he stepped up his play in the second half, and was a much better game manager than he was in the first half."

"The good: Roethlisberger finished the game 33 for 43, with 363 yards, and his team won."

"In the end, there were definitely some good things about Roethlisberger's game last night"

"He's a good quarterback, and I'm sure Steelers fans are satisfied with the results that they have seen in the past 5 years."

"For once, let's look at the situation with some semblance of reality, and place Ben Roethlisberger exactly where he belongs... squarely in the top 10 among NFL QB's. Any worse, and you're not giving him any credit."

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Once again, you obviously did not read it very well, and are just filling in the blanks with what you think I'm saying. That's why you can't just admit that I am 100% correct.

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

The article does prove that you're making him out to be much worse than you just said he is.  I'm fine with differing opinions, but to write this article, which I know damn well you wrote just to sound off, is extremely pathetic.  Of course you will disagree, but your hatred of Roethlisberger and the entire Steelers organization sticks out like a sore thumb on this site.  To even attempt to deny that would be ridiculous.  I also have not put him on a pedestal, I'm saying he's better than YOU personally give him credit for, and that is the truth.  I am done arguing with a person who has such a thick head he can't even realize that this entire article is a complete joke.  I've read this article in its entirety, and you have ONE sentence where you give him credit.  The rest of it is nothing but trying to prove your claim that he's overrated when NO football fan with any brains has EVER considered him to be the best QB in the league.  In the end, the truth is he's better than you give him credit for, and that's where it should end, and that's where it WILL end as far as I'm concerned.

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
I'd put him about 5th.  I'm not going to argue placement when you admit he's a top 10 QB.  However, this article suggests something much different, and makes him out to be FAR worse than he is.  That is the one thing you fail to understand.

Ok, so that means you are putting him ahead of at least one of the following QB's: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Kurt Warner. You're saying Ben Roethlisberger is better than at least two of those guys.

I highly disagree. I think they are all significantly better QB's, for a variety of reasons. That's why I think you overrate him.

And if you really paid attention to the article, you would realize that I'm not making him out to be that bad. You're just upset because I don't put him on a pedestal like you do. The fact is that I actually DID commend him in some parts of this, and I flat out said that he's a top 10-12 QB... and I think that's exactly what he is.

There is no part of this discussion that I fail to understand. There are clearly points that you have flat out ignored, so I understand how you might feel that way, but it has nothing to do with me not understanding anything.

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
Then where would you rank him among QB's in the NFL right now?

I'd put him about 5th.  I'm not going to argue placement when you admit he's a top 10 QB.  However, this article suggests something much different, and makes him out to be FAR worse than he is.  That is the one thing you fail to understand.

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
Again, I've also never argued that he's the best QB in the game.  I do however try to make you get through your thick head that he is not the overrated schmuck you make him out to be every single chance you get.

Then where would you rank him among QB's in the NFL right now?

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
Instead of trying to come up with all of these convoluted theories and ridiculous excuses, if you just realized that Ben Roethlisberger is a slightly above average QB, the world would make much more sense to you. It's amazing how many excuses you make for him, when the reality is that he's just not THAT good. He's good, and definitely top 10, but that's it. And like I said before... there's nothing wrong with that. The Steelers don't need a great QB. They just need someone who can dump the ball off to the flats, and hand it off a bunch of times. And Ben fits that.

Again, I've also never argued that he's the best QB in the game.  I do however try to make you get through your thick head that he is not the overrated schmuck you make him out to be every single chance you get.

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
2004 and 2005 had nothing to do with Jerome Bettis I guess, who was able to plow through people, followed by Willie Parker who was able to get to the outside and get around people until the rest of the NFL figured out his style of play.  Alan Faneca was the ONLY thing holding that line together.  It fell apart completely after he left.  The stats really don't show how bad that O-line actually is.  Any knowledgeable Steeler fan will tell you that for the past few years, the team's 2 biggest weaknesses have been the O-line and special teams.  It makes me laugh that you simply check one stat and try to turn that into the argument that the O-line was very good, because it's not.

Instead of trying to come up with all of these convoluted theories and ridiculous excuses, if you just realized that Ben Roethlisberger is a slightly above average QB, the world would make much more sense to you. It's amazing how many excuses you make for him, when the reality is that he's just not THAT good. He's good, and definitely top 10, but that's it. And like I said before... there's nothing wrong with that. The Steelers don't need a great QB. They just need someone who can dump the ball off to the flats, and hand it off a bunch of times. And Ben fits that.

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
They had to have been doing SOMETHING right between 2004-2007, when the Steelers were 2nd, 5th, 10th and 3rd in the NFL in rushing, respectively.

2004 and 2005 had nothing to do with Jerome Bettis I guess, who was able to plow through people, followed by Willie Parker who was able to get to the outside and get around people until the rest of the NFL figured out his style of play.  Alan Faneca was the ONLY thing holding that line together.  It fell apart completely after he left.  The stats really don't show how bad that O-line actually is.  Any knowledgeable Steeler fan will tell you that for the past few years, the team's 2 biggest weaknesses have been the O-line and special teams.  It makes me laugh that you simply check one stat and try to turn that into the argument that the O-line was very good, because it's not.

9/13/09   |   Jubanator14   |   367 respect

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
I've never changed my story about the Steelers offensive line, I've said how bad it is for years.  It's been a weakness since before Alan Faneca left, nice attempt to make me look like a fool though.  I'd just like to know when you think their O-line was "very good."

They had to have been doing SOMETHING right between 2004-2007, when the Steelers were 2nd, 5th, 10th and 3rd in the NFL in rushing, respectively.

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
I love how you keep changing your story to fit what you're trying to say. I use facts, and I never waver from them. You, on the other hand, change your story every few hours, once you realize that you're not making any sense.

Why do you people get so bothered about this? So what... your QB isn't elite... who cares? You still win, right? You're not the first team to win without a great QB, and you won't be the last.

I've never changed my story about the Steelers offensive line, I've said how bad it is for years.  It's been a weakness since before Alan Faneca left, nice attempt to make me look like a fool though.  I'd just like to know when you think their O-line was "very good."

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
Ben was a rookie in 2004, the O-line was shaky in 2005 and hasn't been elite since.  I'm not sure where you get telling people he was sacked 40+ times with an elite O-line, because those 2 words don't fit in the same sentence together, they haven't for quite a few years in Pittsburgh.

I love how you keep changing your story to fit what you're trying to say. I use facts, and I never waver from them. You, on the other hand, change your story every few hours, once you realize that you're not making any sense.

Why do you people get so bothered about this? So what... your QB isn't elite... who cares? You still win, right? You're not the first team to win without a great QB, and you won't be the last.

9/13/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Ben was a rookie in 2004, the O-line was shaky in 2005 and hasn't been elite since.  I'm not sure where you get telling people he was sacked 40+ times with an elite O-line, because those 2 words don't fit in the same sentence together, they haven't for quite a few years in Pittsburgh.

9/13/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Ramon_R wrote:
I'm drawing a blank here. Name any QB that can play behind an O-line that allows more than 40+ sacks a year and still reach two superbowls in the process, this early in his career.

NAME ONE.....JUST ONE.

We'll wait for that reply. You're welcome.

Because the truth of the matter is, and has been for quite some time now, the Steelers are fielding a below par O-line. The3y have their share of good moments. But they tend to have had their fair share of bad ones as well. There's not another QB in this league that's going to perform stellar behind a line that gives up more than 20 sacks by halfway throught eh season. Not one. And while some of those are Ben's fault, 3/4 of it isn't. You can call him overrated all you want to. But the bottom line is very simple.

WIN SUPERBOWLS BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Ben has 2 rings, how about your QB?

The offensive line can not be blamed for all of the sacks. Everyone who has ever seen him play knows that he takes sacks that are no fault of his offensive line, more so than almost any other QB in the league. And even when the Steelers had a very good o-line, he was still getting sacked 40+ times.

In other news, my QB has 3 Super Bowl rings. But they aren't just his... they belong to the ENTIRE TEAM. Just so you know, it's possible to win without an elite QB. And the Steelers are proof of that.

9/13/09   |   Ramon_R   |   1 respect

I'm drawing a blank here. Name any QB that can play behind an O-line that allows more than 40+ sacks a year and still reach two superbowls in the process, this early in his career.

NAME ONE.....JUST ONE.

We'll wait for that reply. You're welcome.

Because the truth of the matter is, and has been for quite some time now, the Steelers are fielding a below par O-line. The3y have their share of good moments. But they tend to have had their fair share of bad ones as well. There's not another QB in this league that's going to perform stellar behind a line that gives up more than 20 sacks by halfway throught eh season. Not one. And while some of those are Ben's fault, 3/4 of it isn't. You can call him overrated all you want to. But the bottom line is very simple.

WIN SUPERBOWLS BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Ben has 2 rings, how about your QB?

9/13/09   |   phlyerphan12

wrote:
I hate to differ w/ you but if he didn't make the plays and duding make the passes helllo and if the player dose not catch the ball drops the ball it is Ben's fault to ya like all QB he over throws some times but all QB do so u have your opinion and all the steeler fans out there differ w/ YOU

I mean, I agree that Roethlisberger is a legitimate starting QB in the NFL. I'm not saying he's terrible. But he doesn't make plays that other QBs wouldn't make. You could have put a lot of different quarterbacks into Roethlisberger's spot and the Steelers still likely would have won their last two Super Bowls.

9/12/09   |   SaintDrew   |   31 respect

Are you serious with this love for Schaub? lol...what a joke. He is ok, but he cannot stay healthy and he is certainly not a top-10 QB. Take off your Texans homer glasses and start watching some NFL football this season. And if you're not giving Drew Brees statistical credit in your top-10, you certainly cannot count Schaub. He's won even less and doesn't put up remotely near the stats Brees puts up. You have no credibility.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Man I went through this whole thread and I am laughing hysterically. Whatever the stats, look at the most recent Results. Ben has come from behind wins in his last 2 games, One of which was the SuperBowl. This last win his completion percentage was 75%, in a game when his team rushed for what 12 yards, and his defense gave up over 300 total yards, and still got the win. The last game Brady completed he couldn't bring his team from behind when they lost in the SuperBowl. Just simple facts, not statistics.

"The last game Brady completed he couldn't bring his team from behind when they lost the SuperBowl."

This is a false statement, and is a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. The Patriots were losing 10-7 in the 4th quarter. Brady threw a TD pass to Randy Moss with 2:42 left in the game. So technically, he DID "bring his team from behind" in the 4th quarter. However, the defense let the Giants roll down the field and score another TD in response.

Tom Brady did NOT play well in that Super Bowl, and that was a huge reason they lost. His offensive line was getting abused, but Brady wasn't playing well either. However, if the defense had been able to stop the Giants from scoring with 38 seconds left, Brady would have gotten credit for a 4th quarter comeback, despite playing poorly in that game. Would that have suddenly meant he played well? No, but the Patriots would have won, and he would have gotten one more notch in the "4th quarter comebacks" stat... proving exactly how misleading that statistic really is.

9/12/09   |   Debacled

(Edited by Debacled)

Wow, Pat.   Your article oozes frustration.    You say Big Ben is the single most over-rate player in the NFL today.  Are you kidding?  Am I to believe that you cannot find any player on any team in the NFL less deserving of the praise they get then a QB who's brought home more Lombardi's the last 5 years or had more wins than any QB in the league in their first 5 seasons?     Well, I'm not sold.

The Steelers are .500 when Ben throws 40 or more times a game.  That's pretty darn good.  In fact, its all-time good.     When teams start throwing it that much, they usually lose.  Check out the Colts' record when Manning chucks it that much: 18 wins versus 31 losses.    The fact is Big Ben can shoulder the load when called upon.  He's been doing it for 5+ seasons now, so we can dismiss anyone who still suggests his success is a fluke.

Big Ben has always been a down field QB.  Against a stout Titans' D, his YPA was 7.46.    Brady's career YPA is 7.2, while Big Ben's has averaged 7.9 yards per attempt over his career.    Again, those are excellent numbers, and are certainly not indicative of a QB who makes a living dinking and dunking. 

And while you are correct Big Ben didn't play particularly well in his first Superbowl, you need to look into that title run a little more broadly if you are trying to be honest about Ben's role in bring home the Steelers 5th Lombardi.  That season, the Steelers were a just wild card that squeaked into the playoffs.(I'm sure that had nothing to do with Ben spending several games in street close due to a knee injury)  Anyway, once in the playoffs, Big Ben put the whole team on his back and landed in the Superbowl.   On rout to leading his team to 3 consecutive road playoff victories, an NFL first, Ben went 49 - 72 for 680 yards to go along with 7 touchdowns.  You might also remember a no-so-insignificant tackle he made that contributed mightily to the Steelers upsetting the Colts in the Divisional round.  I agree he is not the reason the Steelers beat Seattle, however, Ben IS the reason the Steelers got to play in the Superbowl in the first place.

While I have no doubt Brady is a great, imagine him playing behind that swiss cheese of an offensive line in Pittsburgh.  Do you really think Brady could be as successful if he were in the same situation Ben has been in the last few seasons?      Its hard for me to imagine.  That's not to say I believe Big Ben is better than Brady, its just Ben is/would be better at quarterbacking the Steelers in their current situation.

I find it interesting how you casually brush off Ben's success as a product of his team having an excellent defense, yet have no problem heaping praise on Brady even though two of his title winning teams had excellent defenses themselves.  To be blunt, both of these QB's stumbled into great situations.  Its a credit to both of them that they made the most of their opportunities.

I guess that Pittsburgh defense won the SB when they blew a 13 point 4th quarter lead and let Kurt Warner and Fitz go freakin' crazy.   Big Ben had little to do with that victory.  Right.

The MOST overrated player in the entire NFL.  Really??

Pat, your credibility slip is showing


 

9/12/09   |   kingmcheese

oh real , please dont make me laugh so hard lolo

9/12/09   |   salp98

Do you know what Pittsburgh fans are not talking about?  Tom Brady's QB rating.  In a city oversaturated with sports information, you would find nothing on the radio, television, blogs, newspapers or bathroom walls.  I think it's great that New England fans devote a large portion of their free time disparaging Ben.  Keep up the good work.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

danny_n94 wrote:
Whats more important, style or substance? I am not a huge ben fan, but he is like Elway in a way. He doenst need stats, he has got WINS. That is the bottom line. Who cares how he wins, when the game is on the line he come thru. I dont get the hate for Ben. But I guess hating in him is chic. I would rather have a winner than a GQ cover clown. Brady has done well and is a great QB, but why all the hate towards Ben. Win is a win regarless how it happens

No one is hating on him. I even said myself that he's top 10. That's not hating. I just disagree with those who place him in the top 3-5 QB's in the league.

In other news, HE does not win. His TEAM wins.

9/12/09   |   danny_n94   |   114 respect

Whats more important, style or substance? I am not a huge ben fan, but he is like Elway in a way. He doenst need stats, he has got WINS. That is the bottom line. Who cares how he wins, when the game is on the line he come thru. I dont get the hate for Ben. But I guess hating in him is chic. I would rather have a winner than a GQ cover clown. Brady has done well and is a great QB, but why all the hate towards Ben. Win is a win regarless how it happens

9/12/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

I still don't understand why Tom Brady is even referenced at all in this post.  I don't see what Brady has anything to do with Roethlisberger.  

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
I'm not making anything up.  Deny you would've written an article making Brady a god all you want, every person on this site knows better.  Also, you can throw one of those INTs out of this argument, because it was on a hail mary at the end of the first half.  You know just as well as I do that those things are toss ups, they were given the name of a prayer for a reason, but because it was a Titans player that caught it in the mess of people at the goal line, you add it to your argument to make it look like Ben played worse than he actually did.

Prove it. I can show many examples of where I have criticized some of my favorite players when they screw up. Give me ONE example of when I unjustly praised Tom Brady, or any other Boston-area athlete.

Until you actually give me an example, I can only assume that you are talking out of your ass. Because you are. And everyone knows it, aside from delusional Steelers homers like yourself.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Mannysworld wrote:
So you keep calling Brady names but why isn't he an Elite QB? I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your argument, but I don't understand your position. If you are saying winning is over-rated then how do you justify putting Manning and Big Ben in front of him? They win games too. If you say winning should be valued more then how do you explain  Brees, Palmer,and Rivers ahead of him? They haven't  won anything. If stats are important than only Manning should be in front of him. If stats aren't important than why is Brees so high. This list's logic is hard to follow. If you hate him for being over-hyped or sleeping with Giselle thats somethig different.

Excellent point. There is no logical or intelligent way to justify putting Tom Brady any lower than #2. Anyone who even makes an attempt is just blind to the facts.

9/12/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

I'm not making anything up.  Deny you would've written an article making Brady a god all you want, every person on this site knows better.  Also, you can throw one of those INTs out of this argument, because it was on a hail mary at the end of the first half.  You know just as well as I do that those things are toss ups, they were given the name of a prayer for a reason, but because it was a Titans player that caught it in the mess of people at the goal line, you add it to your argument to make it look like Ben played worse than he actually did.

9/12/09   |   Mannysworld   |   121 respect

joshwillis52 wrote:
Wow. This has got to be the worst top 10 QB list I have ever seen. #3 and #4 are kind of hard for me to choose from so I'll just pu them both there.

1. P. Manning
2. D. Brees
3. D. McNabb/B. Roethlisberger
4. B. Roethlisberger/D. McNabb
5. C. Palmer(If he can still play like he did in 06')
6. P. Rivers
7. Tom "Pretty Boy" Brady
8. Eli Manning
9. Kurt Warner
10. Jay Cutler

So you keep calling Brady names but why isn't he an Elite QB? I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your argument, but I don't understand your position. If you are saying winning is over-rated then how do you justify putting Manning and Big Ben in front of him? They win games too. If you say winning should be valued more then how do you explain  Brees, Palmer,and Rivers ahead of him? They haven't  won anything. If stats are important than only Manning should be in front of him. If stats aren't important than why is Brees so high. This list's logic is hard to follow. If you hate him for being over-hyped or sleeping with Giselle thats somethig different.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
I read your comment, and you are still a hypocrite more than you want to admit, and here's why.  Had this been the Patriots in the very same situation, trailing late in the game and coming back to win, you would have written an article about how amazing Tom Brady is.  We ALL know you would have.  Fortunately for you it was the Steelers so you could sound off about Big Ben and say that he's overrated.  It's almost, in fact it IS laughable.

If Tom Brady threw 1 TD and 2 INT, and averaged only 11 yards per completion, I absolutely would not have written about how amazing he is. Now you're just making stuff up.

Find an example of when I praised Tom Brady for throwing more interceptions than touchdowns, and I will concede that you are right. The problem is, you are blatantly lying, and completely fabricating your statements.

I love a good debate, but if you continue to just lie to me and everyone else, and make things up because you don't have anything more productive to add to the conversation, then it's hard to take you seriously or respect a single thing you say.

9/12/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
Read my comment, and then try again. You were obviously too caught up in trying to accuse me of hypocrisy, and failed to actually understand what I was saying. Take your black and gold homer glasses off, get your thinking cap, and come back to me again with a more relevant and intelligent comment, please.

I read your comment, and you are still a hypocrite more than you want to admit, and here's why.  Had this been the Patriots in the very same situation, trailing late in the game and coming back to win, you would have written an article about how amazing Tom Brady is.  We ALL know you would have.  Fortunately for you it was the Steelers so you could sound off about Big Ben and say that he's overrated.  It's almost, in fact it IS laughable.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
We all know the defense played incredibly against the Titans.  However, the point you still haven't seemed to understand is that while you praise Brady and bash Roethlisberger, the Pats under Brady have more comeback wins than do the Steelers under Roethlisberger.  Therefore, by your own logic above, your team and Brady have had something go wrong and have sucked bad enough to be trailing after 3 quarters MORE than have the Steelers and Roethlisberger.  Denying that with what you wrote yourself in this very article is hypocritical, and I hope you can see that.

Read my comment, and then try again. You were obviously too caught up in trying to accuse me of hypocrisy, and failed to actually understand what I was saying. Take your black and gold homer glasses off, get your thinking cap, and come back to me again with a more relevant and intelligent comment, please.

9/12/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
I understand your point completely. I'm not saying that comeback wins are a "bad" stat. I'm just saying that it needs to be kept in perspective. It's good, but there are many reasons why you: 1) can't attribute it solely to the QB, and 2) shouldn't act like it's an amazing statistic.

For starters, as I said, the most important part of racking up 4th quarter comebacks is making sure you're losing after 3 quarters. So while it's good that you win the game, it comes with the reality that clearly something went wrong beforehand.

Secondly, you need to realize that 4th quarter comebacks, much like wins, can NOT be attributed to a QB. He is merely one piece of the entire team, all of whom make a difference in the win. For example, the Steelers defense held the Titans to 3 points in the second half of their game on Thursday. So what's more impressive? Roethlisberger and the offense scoring 6 points in 35 minutes of football? Or the defense holding the Titans to only 3 points in those same 35 minutes? In my opinion, and the opinion of most intelligent football fans, the defense was MUCH more impressive. But you'll still give Roethlisberger credit for a "comeback win" ... when the fact is that they were only ever 3 points down in the first place, and had 11 minutes to score.

The bottom line is that Steelers fans claim that the 4th quarter/OT "comeback" wins are what makes Roethlisberger great. My point is that those 4th quarter/OT wins are great, they are NOT something that makes a QB great in and of themselves. They are a combination of the effort of an entire team, and actually does not always accurately reflect the performance of the QB himself.

So while Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger all "have" many 4th quarter/OT comeback wins, I don't think that statistic in particular is an accurate way to gauge a QB or his performance. There are too many other factors in play, and it would be far more prudent to rely on other methods to judge their performance.

You may disagree with the final conclusion, but you can not intelligently deny that what I'm saying is correct in this case.

We all know the defense played incredibly against the Titans.  However, the point you still haven't seemed to understand is that while you praise Brady and bash Roethlisberger, the Pats under Brady have more comeback wins than do the Steelers under Roethlisberger.  Therefore, by your own logic above, your team and Brady have had something go wrong and have sucked bad enough to be trailing after 3 quarters MORE than have the Steelers and Roethlisberger.  Denying that with what you wrote yourself in this very article is hypocritical, and I hope you can see that.

9/12/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

Where is your list backed up with stats at? Hell, you have Jason Campbell in the top 5. You have Rodgers, Pennington, and Campbell ahead of McNabb. Matt Schaub at #10 over Romo, Cutler, Warner, and Garrard? Brett Favre is still better than Schaub.

Believe me, I'm no Jay Cutler fan at all, but he is the tenth best QB in the league. I also don't think Palmer is washed up, he has just had a lot problems with injuries. Notice what I typed in parenthesis as I ranked him.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Where did I deny that? Even in the article, I said that he would be in the top 10... just not in the top 5, or top 1 or 2, as some of these head cases are saying.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
You just missed the point.  He has MORE comeback wins than Big Ben, which by your logic in the article above, means he has sucked more times in his career than Big Ben.  I know you don't believe that is the case, and neither do I.  However, if you're using that logic to justify why Roethlisberger isn't any good, yet throwing that logic out the window when it comes to Brady, you're being hypocritical.

I understand your point completely. I'm not saying that comeback wins are a "bad" stat. I'm just saying that it needs to be kept in perspective. It's good, but there are many reasons why you: 1) can't attribute it solely to the QB, and 2) shouldn't act like it's an amazing statistic.

For starters, as I said, the most important part of racking up 4th quarter comebacks is making sure you're losing after 3 quarters. So while it's good that you win the game, it comes with the reality that clearly something went wrong beforehand.

Secondly, you need to realize that 4th quarter comebacks, much like wins, can NOT be attributed to a QB. He is merely one piece of the entire team, all of whom make a difference in the win. For example, the Steelers defense held the Titans to 3 points in the second half of their game on Thursday. So what's more impressive? Roethlisberger and the offense scoring 6 points in 35 minutes of football? Or the defense holding the Titans to only 3 points in those same 35 minutes? In my opinion, and the opinion of most intelligent football fans, the defense was MUCH more impressive. But you'll still give Roethlisberger credit for a "comeback win" ... when the fact is that they were only ever 3 points down in the first place, and had 11 minutes to score.

The bottom line is that Steelers fans claim that the 4th quarter/OT "comeback" wins are what makes Roethlisberger great. My point is that those 4th quarter/OT wins are great, they are NOT something that makes a QB great in and of themselves. They are a combination of the effort of an entire team, and actually does not always accurately reflect the performance of the QB himself.

So while Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger all "have" many 4th quarter/OT comeback wins, I don't think that statistic in particular is an accurate way to gauge a QB or his performance. There are too many other factors in play, and it would be far more prudent to rely on other methods to judge their performance.

You may disagree with the final conclusion, but you can not intelligently deny that what I'm saying is correct in this case.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

LEAVE BEN ALONE!!!1

9/12/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

You just missed the point.  He has MORE comeback wins than Big Ben, which by your logic in the article above, means he has sucked more times in his career than Big Ben.  I know you don't believe that is the case, and neither do I.  However, if you're using that logic to justify why Roethlisberger isn't any good, yet throwing that logic out the window when it comes to Brady, you're being hypocritical.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Btw, the Brady comment is irrelevant. I don't have to justify anything that Tom Brady has done. By any and every standard imaginable, Tom Brady is THE best quarterback in the NFL, period. And he is, by any standard, a better quarterback than Ben Roethlisberger.

When people bring up Ben's comeback wins, that's one of their main justifications about why they think he's a great QB. If I were to tell you why Tom Brady is a great QB, I wouldn't need to bring up something as trifling and arbitrary as "comeback wins". I would mention the times he led the league in passing TD's and passing yards with no-name WR's, who have never done anything on other teams. I would point out that he thrived as a game manager early in his career, and then he thrived when he was asked to carry the offense as his career went on. I would mention that he has played as well in the playoffs as anyone in history. I would mention that when he finally had some legitimate weapons in his offense, he had the best year in the history of the QB position. Comeback wins wouldn't even cross my mind.

9/12/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Pat wrote:
"if you weren't the assistant editor, this would've never been featured."

This sentence is so full of epic fail that it's not even funny. Just so you know, I personally featured this story, which is a direct rebuttal to my post. This would have been featured if ANYONE wrote it, and you know that for a fact. Just like the rebuttal was featured, because it is a quality, well-written post. In other news, FanIQ does not have an "Assistant Editor". Thanks for making up a title for me, though.

It is actually a cold hard fact.  Nobody else on this site bashes Ben Roethlisberger like you do.  Nobody else looks for a slight problem by Ben during the game just so they can write a BS article like this to ridicule him.  You featured the other article pretty much because you HAD to in order to be fair.  However, it never would've been written if you would keep your Brady-loving mouth shut for once in your life about Big Ben instead of constantly being a jag-off and claiming he's overrated by YOUR standards and then trying to pass it off as fact.

BTW, I'd like to see your response about Brady's 4th quarter comebacks.  Since your article here states that in order to have a 4th quarter comeback, you must suck bad enough to be losing after 3 quarters, by that reasoning it means Brady has sucked 26 times.

9/12/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

Wow. This has got to be the worst top 10 QB list I have ever seen. #3 and #4 are kind of hard for me to choose from so I'll just pu them both there.

1. P. Manning
2. D. Brees
3. D. McNabb/B. Roethlisberger
4. B. Roethlisberger/D. McNabb
5. C. Palmer(If he can still play like he did in 06')
6. P. Rivers
7. Tom "Pretty Boy" Brady
8. Eli Manning
9. Kurt Warner
10. Jay Cutler

9/12/09   |   tpg6361

hey patsie, that will change IF the Pats get into the tournament 
this year

9/12/09   |   tpg6361

Pat wrote:
What's his record against the Patriots in the postseason? I'll give you a hint... zero wins.

hello, Newman

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

wrote:
Typical bile from a NE fan. We'll see how overrated he is IF the Patriots make the playoffs.

What's his record against the Patriots in the postseason? I'll give you a hint... zero wins.

9/12/09   |   johnshirey54   |   162 respect

Gisele Bundchen made thirty-three million dollars this past year (Brady made a little over thirteen million), so I don't think she needs to come to him for money.

9/12/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

kramer wrote:
Ben tries to make plays, he had a sack in which he had absolutely no time to throw the ball, he led yet another comeback, the Titans tried to force the ball into Ben's hands and he made them pay for it, one of those INTs was the hail mary at the end of the first half, and if you weren't the assistant editor, this would've never been featured.

"if you weren't the assistant editor, this would've never been featured."

This sentence is so full of epic fail that it's not even funny. Just so you know, I personally featured this story, which is a direct rebuttal to my post. This would have been featured if ANYONE wrote it, and you know that for a fact. Just like the rebuttal was featured, because it is a quality, well-written post. In other news, FanIQ does not have an "Assistant Editor". Thanks for making up a title for me, though.

9/12/09   |   kantwistaye   |   4211 respect

(Edited by kantwistaye)

WINS are a team stat.  By the same argument, Pittsburgh had the best offensive line in the game last year.  You can't credit wins to just one position and not the others.  I guess we should congratulate Willie Parker on being the best RB in the game as well since he won the Super Bowl last year.

By the way, if you think Tom Brady can't go over the top or hasn't, please watch a New England football game this year.  Or, just watch the tape of him owning Anthony Smith all game long.

9/12/09   |   Flone87   |   6 respect

Moronic...If any QB "dinks and dunks"  is one of your arguments,  Tom Brady is not elite either. Oh, and for the person who made his list and put Jason Campbell at number 5, you need your head examined.

The ultimate measure of a QB is only one stat: WINS. Fantasy football has made everyone so stat conscious, but stats only matter in fantasy land, which, is where too many people, including the author of this dumb blog live. If you take out the debacle season after SBXL, where Ben was a crash test dummy, then lost his appendix, and played games still concussed, His seasons go 15-1, SBXL title, playoffs (, 12-4 (vs hardest schedule ever) and 2nd SB title.
Furthermore...put Brady on the Steelers and he would NOT fair as well Big Ben has with our porous O-line.

9/12/09   |   dragn_lover

is ben roethlisberger overrated?.....i'm not sure about that. but he can make things happen when he needs to, and he has the time from his line. also a very tough player, let's give credit where it is due. and wait & see what happens this year.

9/12/09   |   dragn_lover

Jess wrote:
I actually think that's what Pat's trying to say in the article - Ben's line gives him the time to pull off great plays. What does he do if his line doesn't hold and he doesn't have all day? Does he still tear teams apart? I think he's saying that people tend to give  too much credit to the QB in this case, and not enough to the entire team.

I'm not arguing with you here; I'm just saying that you basically just proved Pat's point - and it makes a lot of sense. I can see why the media hypes Ben up - there needs to be a hero to praise. I fail to see the logic in Steelers fans putting the QB above the rest of their team though, especially when it's the rest of the team that makes him look so good.

very well said....and also true!

9/12/09   |   phlyerphan12

If Roethlisberger played on the Lions, or the Rams, or the Browns, they'd still suck and this would be a moot discussion. I think we can all agree that Super Bowls are a team stat (especially when it's not like Roethlisberger has lit up the playoffs in his career), and the ONLY reason Roethlisberger is even part of a consideration of top QBs is because of his Super Bowl wins. Statistically, he doesn't stack up.

Without a great Steelers team behind him, nobody would be arguing that Roethlisberger was a top 10 QB. Nobody would care.

9/12/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

wrote:
 See... now you are just trying to get Pat all upset...... we all know that Brady has proved himself to be one of the games elite quartbacks of all times... up there with Bradshaw, Griese, Montana....... and the others.....

OMG. Please tell me you did not just say he is in the elite quarterbacks of all time. I will admit that Brady is a good quarterback, but I have a hard time even putting him in the top 5 in the league right now. Actually, I had this same argument with a friend the other day and I ranked him as the #7 best QB in the league right now. I get a lot of criticism for this and I'm sure I will here too, but Tom "Pretty Boy" Brady is the most overrated QB of all time.

9/12/09   |   aos035   |   68 respect

Drew Brees has the best stats and accuracy but hes still ignored because of a bad team.

9/12/09   |   aos035   |   68 respect

Umm... Did anyone else see the 3 penalties on Polemalu?

9/12/09   |   larrystarstruck   |   23 respect

 It's hard for me to call a QB that has won two superbowls overrated. However, he does seem to hold on to the ball too long and takes two many sacks.

9/11/09   |   Whammer   |   70 respect

Whammer wrote:
If you say so I think they both would of made the playoffs. Theres only 2 qbs I take over Ben. He might hold on to the ball to long and take a stupid sack but the pros well out weigh the cons...and btw they would of won in regulation IF Ward doesnt fumble so u cant play of ifs. IF the Titans wouldnt of played prevent defense they they probably would of won

Plus IF they dont call that imagary pass interference on Troy he doesnt get hurt on that blocked field goal a couple plays later and you never know the Tians might not of scored

9/11/09   |   affordabletax

Haters never die....LOL!!! You can't penalize a QB for being on a great team. Just as much as 400 yards passing games don't necessarily equate to wins, you have to understand game management is just as much a part of being a great QB. I think people don't like Ben because of the perception that hasn't had to work hard to improve or get better since he has been in the league. He got drafted by a team who needs exactly what he gives and the rest is history.

9/11/09   |   da_fortune_cooki

Well I am not a STEELER fan, OK maybe sort just a lil .. but my point is.. any person who can take their team to the SB, as many times as he has .. has to be doing something right .. YES there are better quarter backs out there whom actually do there job the right way .. its the rest of the team that can't seem to get there s**t in one sock.. my point being .. with all and everything that he has going on right now with the press and legal crap.. he is doing an awesome job doing what he does .. now whether or not he actually throws the ball to whom he means too.. or gets it to where it is suppose to be going .. that's another story in itself .. but as far as being a awesome quarterback is left to be said.. lets see his stats at the end of this years season and compare them to some of the others who we all think is the best and see if his measure up .. or even close... but once again .. that's just my opinion.. lol... goooooooooooooo dolphins....

9/11/09   |   Whammer   |   70 respect

Pat wrote:
If you swap Rivers and Roethlisberger, the Chargers would have missed the playoffs last year, and the Steelers would still have won the Super Bowl.

If you say so I think they both would of made the playoffs. Theres only 2 qbs I take over Ben. He might hold on to the ball to long and take a stupid sack but the pros well out weigh the cons...and btw they would of won in regulation IF Ward doesnt fumble so u cant play of ifs. IF the Titans wouldnt of played prevent defense they they probably would of won

9/11/09   |   Bashfulblue   |   7 respect

Be is not overated

9/11/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Whammer wrote:
You can have a qb that throws for 400 yards a game I will have one that wins games and championships Pretty or ugly all he does is just win

If you swap Rivers and Roethlisberger, the Chargers would have missed the playoffs last year, and the Steelers would still have won the Super Bowl.

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

Whammer wrote:
You can have a qb that throws for 400 yards a game I will have one that wins games and championships Pretty or ugly all he does is just win

Remind me how many people are on the field at any given time?

9/11/09   |   Whammer   |   70 respect

Whammer wrote:
You think Ben is overrated and I think Bellicheck is overrated. I bet you there are 30 other teams that would like to have him. Im glad we got Ben instead Of Eli or Rivers

You can have a qb that throws for 400 yards a game I will have one that wins games and championships Pretty or ugly all he does is just win

9/11/09   |   lavabuster   |   30 respect

Whammer wrote:
You think Ben is overrated and I think Bellicheck is overrated. I bet you there are 30 other teams that would like to have him. Im glad we got Ben instead Of Eli or Rivers

I'm sorry, but i cannot believe you just typed that......Anyone and i mean ANYONE who takes Big Ben over Phillip Rivers is out of their minds......

9/11/09   |   Whammer   |   70 respect

Pat wrote:
Wow.... you should go back and read that again. I think you're confused, because nothing that you just said is even remotely relevant.

You think Ben is overrated and I think Bellicheck is overrated. I bet you there are 30 other teams that would like to have him. Im glad we got Ben instead Of Eli or Rivers

9/11/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Whammer wrote:
But I guess stealing signs is quite alright....So I guess the same goes for your coach Bellicheck everyone says hes a genius where were these people at when he had a record of 36-44 in Cleveland. Apparently the people in Cleveland dont think hes a genius

Wow.... you should go back and read that again. I think you're confused, because nothing that you just said is even remotely relevant.

9/11/09   |   Whammer   |   70 respect

Pat wrote:
All this guy team does is win and win ugly.

/fixed

But I guess stealing signs is quite alright....So I guess the same goes for your coach Bellicheck everyone says hes a genius where were these people at when he had a record of 36-44 in Cleveland. Apparently the people in Cleveland dont think hes a genius

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

wrote:
Oops, you are gonna make Pat mad. He thinks that Bradshaw was a terrible QB and not elite either.

Bradshaw had eleventy billion Hall of Fame teammates, and STILL had a 51.9% completion percentage and a 5.4% INT percentage.   Any half way decent QB would have been a part of 4 Super Bowl wins with those squads.

The most over-rated player ever will always be Joe Namath though.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

wrote:
It was not me who rated Jason Campell in the top # 5 my concern was the rateing on rothlisberger  rateing him # 6 'Don't think so" # 1 is more the lucky number

I know it wasn't you, I didn't say it was.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Jason Campbell in the top 5?  You're kidding, right?

9/11/09   |   aerockyulhim

The second article in as many days where I didn't even need to read the article to know that Pat wrote this. 

9/11/09   |   jacksonmacdonald   |   2 respect

Yinzer wrote:


nuff said :/

AT LEAST HE CAN PLAY QB

9/11/09   |   jacksonmacdonald   |   2 respect

(Edited by jacksonmacdonald)

 Ya at least he can play QB unlike Ben who
and your just saying that cause u like the steelrs

9/11/09   |   jacksonmacdonald   |   2 respect

 So overated ya he steps up BUT is not a all time QB like BRADY

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

danny_n94 wrote:
Talking about Cutler tossing picks in chicago. Ben wasnt 2nd in picks last year that douche who is the bears QB was

I didn't think he was, but of course this article was an idiotic attempt to bash Ben.  Therefore I thought you were talking about the Steelers, d'oh!

9/11/09   |   joshwillis52   |   114 respect

Ben Roethlisberger the most overrated player in the NFL? Sorry, but no, that award has already been given to Tom "Pretty Boy" Brady.

 

9/11/09   |   danny_n94   |   114 respect

kramer wrote:
Strong OL?  You're obviously not talking about the same Steelers.  That OL has been a mess for quite a few years.

Talking about Cutler tossing picks in chicago. Ben wasnt 2nd in picks last year that douche who is the bears QB was

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

danny_n94 wrote:
He was 2nd in the NFL in picks last year with 2 good receivers and a stong OL. He will push Favre for the lead this year

Strong OL?  You're obviously not talking about the same Steelers.  That OL has been a mess for quite a few years.

9/11/09   |   MTP256

 Should I make absurd statements about pointless rankings by some random person on the internet?  Hmm...Actually, I'm going to make a list that has Brady as the 30th best QB.  He had no touchdowns last year!!  And of course this list will define who wins this season.

9/11/09   |   Jubanator14   |   367 respect

wrote:
Funny, I used to think the same thing about Brady in his first 4 seasons. Clearly the Patriots defense and the kicking was winning the games. Yet the media made him out to be the hero.

There is also the little stat that says that Big Ben has the MOST 4th qtr or OT game-winning drives in all of the NFL with 19. Not either Manning, not Brady.

The NFL and its media don't care about fantasy stats, but only wins. That is why Big Ben is elite. Because playing behind one of the worst lines in the NFL, and now in the last 13 months with the Steelers running game broken, he still wins games. That makes him elite.

While doing some looking around the internet, I found a really interesting and informative blog post that went back and broke down all of the great 4th quarter comeback/game winning drives. Here it is http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401 if you or anyone want to check it out.

It breaks it down how a lot of those numbers for all quarterbacks are skewed and lays out the numbers in this chart.

QB                 Reported     Actual
John Elway              47        34
Brett Favre             42        27
Dan Marino              37        36
Peyton Manning          37        28
Drew Bledsoe            32        24
Joe Montana             31        31
Johnny Unitas           31        34
Tom Brady               28        20
Roger Staubach          23        15
Ben Roethlisberger      19        15
Chad Pennington          7         7
Jay Cutler               7         5
It is pretty interesting stuff really.

9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

So basically all this talk has come up with is this....no quarterback is better than the sum of his parts. Joe Montana might suck without Roger Craig, John Taylor, Dwight Clark and company.  Tom Brady might not have won a game if he played for the Detroit Lions a few years ago. It will always take a team to win in football. You truly have to be pretty good on both sides of the ball to win a championship. Brady and P. Manning at the top of the list for sure. Roethlisberger to be mentioned in the next 5 is not a stretch at all.

9/11/09   |   nk1956   |   475 respect

Pat, you are a brave man taking on Steeler Nation.  You make some very analytical points that, unfortunately, will only piss off Steeler nation.  I do not believe Big Ben would be so legendary on a team not so well stocked as Pittsburgh.  Could he turn around the 49ers?  No.  Could he make the Texans a Super Bowl team?  No. 

9/11/09   |   realist1961   |   1 respect

Well, he is not the first Pittsburgh QB to be overrated.  Bradshaw was average at best and he has a few rings to show for it.  SB rings are not the measure of a great QB, ask Marino or Fouts or Moon.  I agree Ben gets "the job done", same as any number of other QB's.

9/11/09   |   uwgb44   |   28 respect

Raider_Dave wrote:
I was merely responding to your use of the term in your post.  If "elite" QB means top 5-10, then Big Ben no doubt is an elite QB.  Regardless of stats, he WINS.

So say someone like Drew Brees, Or lets say Carsen Palmer for a few years with the Bengals, They put up huge numbers but dont get the wins because their defences are no good. It isnt just the QB that "wins" games it is the whole roster. You could have taken the best QB there ever was and put them on some teams and they would never win. A win loss record is not all you can judge a QB on. Can anyone say with a straigh face that Kerry Collins is an ELITE QB cuz he went 13-3 last year I think not. Like Ben he has a very good team around so he doesnt have to do it all himself. Like no one seems to understand what Pat is saying. He is not saying Ben doesnt deserve credit for the wins. He is just saying that the rest of the team around him should get a little more since they are a big reason why Ben's win loss record is so good.

9/11/09   |   tritonman917

Jess wrote:
I actually think that's what Pat's trying to say in the article - Ben's line gives him the time to pull off great plays. What does he do if his line doesn't hold and he doesn't have all day? Does he still tear teams apart? I think he's saying that people tend to give  too much credit to the QB in this case, and not enough to the entire team.

I'm not arguing with you here; I'm just saying that you basically just proved Pat's point - and it makes a lot of sense. I can see why the media hypes Ben up - there needs to be a hero to praise. I fail to see the logic in Steelers fans putting the QB above the rest of their team though, especially when it's the rest of the team that makes him look so good.

UMMMMMMM "BIG" Ben WINS Again!!!!!!!!!

9/11/09   |   danny_n94   |   114 respect

MrNFL wrote:
True.  He was spoiled with Denver, strong O-Line, two solid receivers.  He's got Matt Forte and nothing else with the Bears.  He'll probably be second in the NFL in INTs.  Of course, Old Man Arm Punt will be first.

He was 2nd in the NFL in picks last year with 2 good receivers and a stong OL. He will push Favre for the lead this year

9/11/09   |   sprode   |   52 respect

Dear god man, do you ever give up the goat?  Write about something else, you're just taking up space and being droll.

Nobody really cares.

9/11/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

"James Harrison was on Sirius last night on my way home about 12:30

1. He mentioned that at least one of the long pass plays on the TN TD drive the Steelers only had 10 men on the field

2. He was asked, what did you do to prepare for OT?

he said, "I cut my tape off. Seriously, I cut my tape off. Ben came up to me and said I got this one, so I listened to my QB and I cut my tape off""

9/11/09   |   kantwistaye   |   4211 respect

pittfanstan wrote:
And has 2 SB Wins and beat the Chargers twice last season.

Pittsburgh did that not Ben Roethlisberger.  If Rivers and Roethlisberger switched teams, Pittsburgh would still have 2 SB wins and 2 wins over the Chargers last season.

9/11/09   |   psukixaz

WhoDat12 wrote:
Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger have had better TEAMS around them than Manning, McNabb, Rivers, and Brees. As a rookie, Roethlisberger came into the perfect situation: dominant defense, excellent run game. That relieves some of the pressure that a young quarterback would normally face.  I wouldn't necessarily say that he is overrated, but in a perfect situation to succeed. 

If you asked me a year ago, I probably would have agreed with the overrated statement. He has proven me wrong. He is the leader of this team, and the team believes in him. He is in a perfect situation. People can twist numbers around to show whatever they want. When it's all said and done, it is the intangibles with Ben. It's the things that you can't measure that makes him one of the top QBs. What you can measure is results. His team has won 2 Super Bowls in 5 years. He may not be "elite", but he deserves more respect than he has been shown.

9/11/09   |   pittfanstan

And has 2 SB Wins and beat the Chargers twice last season.

9/11/09   |   LT21DaBest

im not going to lie i absolutely despise the steelers and big ben and i do agree hes overated but he gets the job done tho even tho hes a sack magnet and a interception king

9/11/09   |   kantwistaye   |   4211 respect

gfeller07 wrote:
I think most teams would take him.

All that means is that he's in the top 15 of all QBs in the league. Nobody disagrees there.

9/11/09   |   WhoDat12   |   2252 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger have had better TEAMS around them than Manning, McNabb, Rivers, and Brees. As a rookie, Roethlisberger came into the perfect situation: dominant defense, excellent run game. That relieves some of the pressure that a young quarterback would normally face.  I wouldn't necessarily say that he is overrated, but in a perfect situation to succeed. 

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

wrote:
Not to mention Cutler has no receivers to throw the ball to....unless you count Hester running a fly pattern every down.

True.  He was spoiled with Denver, strong O-Line, two solid receivers.  He's got Matt Forte and nothing else with the Bears.  He'll probably be second in the NFL in INTs.  Of course, Old Man Arm Punt will be first.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

guylake wrote:
Only 69 comments? I am very disappointed, Steelers fans.

It's only been a couple hours, give it time.

9/11/09   |   guylake   |   321 respect

Only 69 comments? I am very disappointed, Steelers fans.

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

Beaze wrote:
 Yo, I do not understand why everyone is so high on Rodgers, lol.  Warner is tough, no doubt and for one seasons?  I'd still take Big Ben if all things were equal (same elite recievers and same tough D).

Eli?  You are smokin'
Cutler...just wait until he tosses it up to those Bears recievers.
Ryan I feel is the same type of player.  Manages the game, makes smart throws and lets the run game and D do the work.
Palmer is an f---in' joke.  I'm sorry, lol.

I see big things from Rodgers this year.  He was really impressive last year, I think he'll be regarded very highly by years end.  

Like I said involving Eli/Cutler/Palmer, it's close for me, and could go either way.  For Palmer, it depends if he ever can return to his top form.  Eli has improved recently.  Cutler, based on pure talent I'd put ahead of Ben, but I do think he's going to struggle a good deal with the craptastic Bears O.

9/11/09   |   Beaze   |   271 respect

MrNFL wrote:
Wow, Beaze?  I haven't seen that name on here in ages...

I'd rather have Brady, Peyton, McNabb, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Rodgers, Ryan.  Eli Manning, Cutler, Palmer are about even in my book with him.  So he's anywhere from 9th to 12th for me.

 Yo, I do not understand why everyone is so high on Rodgers, lol.  Warner is tough, no doubt and for one seasons?  I'd still take Big Ben if all things were equal (same elite recievers and same tough D).

Eli?  You are smokin'
Cutler...just wait until he tosses it up to those Bears recievers.
Ryan I feel is the same type of player.  Manages the game, makes smart throws and lets the run game and D do the work.
Palmer is an f---in' joke.  I'm sorry, lol.

9/11/09   |   feel_the_steel   |   9 respect

Oh, and one more thing.........I think Pat makes some great posts, but this subject is really getting kind of 'broken record' to me, so I will take my leave of this thread with the only comment that truly matters:



9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

kramer wrote:
They won't mention the fact that in order to orchestrate a 4th quarter comeback, you first must suck bad enough to be losing after the first 3 quarters.

For the record, Pat, I guess this means Tom Brady has sucked 26 times in his career then, huh?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

Including two Superbowl comebacks. Only field goal drives.

9/11/09   |   Beaze   |   271 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

You can't really count winning championships or seasons in the NFL though.  No one player can win or lose a game.  It may seem that way in the age of ESPN and highlight reels, but it don't come down to one player.

LT, Peterson and Barry-freakin'-sanders are probably the greatest, most talented, etc... running backs of their era.  But it takes 21 other starters and more bench players to win a game.

What I'm saying is this...if someone gave me the keys to a NFL franchise and said "go" I'm taking those 5 QBs before I get to Big Ben.  I love Big Ben, but I'm trying to win.

Forget the TEAMS they play for, just look at the player...who would you take first on your team (not fantasy teams either)?

9/11/09   |   gfeller07

I think most teams would take him.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

They won't mention the fact that in order to orchestrate a 4th quarter comeback, you first must suck bad enough to be losing after the first 3 quarters.

For the record, Pat, I guess this means Tom Brady has sucked 26 times in his career then, huh?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

wrote:
No, it is not a giant stretch:

In five years, Eli has a 56 percent completion rate, 6.4 yard passing average, 200 passing yards per game, 98 TD, 74 Int, 120 sacks, and a 76.1 QB rating.

In six years, Michael Vick has a 54 percent completion rate, 6.7 yard passing average, 155 passing yards per game, 71 TD, 52 Int, 187 sacks, and a 75.7 QB rating.
 

Sometimes I forget how god awful Eli was to start his career.  But he is much better now, and now is a solid quarterback.  His first few years, he blew.  Obviously, comparing careers, Ben easily beats him.  But I had to chose RIGHT NOW which one I'd rather have, it's close for me.

9/11/09   |   Beaze   |   271 respect

kramer wrote:
BEAZE!

 KRAMER!  (running on the beach)

9/11/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

Someone's just bitter that Ben is undefeated in the state of Ohio.

9/11/09   |   PuckahoIic   |   622 respect

considering the fact that everytime you see the steeles in a playoff game or a game that really matters, what is it that EVERY opposing team says when it come to their game plan?.............    lets make roethlesberger beat us in the air and stop the steeler's running game.................... that's NEVER said when it comes to brady, manning , rivers, or brees

9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

Jess wrote:
I actually think that's what Pat's trying to say in the article - Ben's line gives him the time to pull off great plays. What does he do if his line doesn't hold and he doesn't have all day? Does he still tear teams apart? I think he's saying that people tend to give  too much credit to the QB in this case, and not enough to the entire team.

I'm not arguing with you here; I'm just saying that you basically just proved Pat's point - and it makes a lot of sense. I can see why the media hypes Ben up - there needs to be a hero to praise. I fail to see the logic in Steelers fans putting the QB above the rest of their team though, especially when it's the rest of the team that makes him look so good.

Haha. Ben's line gives him time to make great plays. Just the opposite. Sometimes..yes, he holds onto the ball too long. The offensive line of the Steelers is not very good. They don't run block well and they don't pass block well. As far as putting Roethlisberger above the team....never. Winning. That is the objective of all teams.

9/11/09   |   Raider_Dave   |   47 respect

wrote:
You mean Tom "get 'em pregnant and bail" Brady?

HAHAHAHA!!  I don't dislike Brady, but that is hilarious.  Big time WIN.

+ 1000000

9/11/09   |   feel_the_steel   |   9 respect

BTW Pat......last night was Ben's 20th game winning drive, just thought you should know.

9/11/09   |   feel_the_steel   |   9 respect

kramer wrote:
Ben tries to make plays, he had a sack in which he had absolutely no time to throw the ball, he led yet another comeback, the Titans tried to force the ball into Ben's hands and he made them pay for it, one of those INTs was the hail mary at the end of the first half, and if you weren't the assistant editor, this would've never been featured.

You go kramer!

9/11/09   |   JKB37   |   2409 respect

Bottom line is he wins..  However he does it, whether the team around him allows him to "manage" games, or if its actually him who delivers the wins...  He wins games..  And beyond that, he wins superbowls...  I'd take him on my team...  I don't know how you can overrate that...

9/11/09   |   PuckahoIic   |   622 respect

(Edited by PuckahoIic)

hell...... if wearing a patriots halter top gets me a few nights with giselle , then slide one on me , baby !!!!!

9/11/09   |   Yinzer   |   1 respect

SaintDrew wrote:
OMFG watch this double-pump fake he puts on the safety!!! Incredible! I've never seen anything like this in my whole life!!! Collinsworth was going overboard last night with that sh*t.

thats why you have to turn the volume down on the Tv and tune the radio to 102.5..

9/11/09   |   SaintDrew   |   31 respect

OMFG watch this double-pump fake he puts on the safety!!! Incredible! I've never seen anything like this in my whole life!!! Collinsworth was going overboard last night with that sh*t.

9/11/09   |   Raider_Dave   |   47 respect

dumpsterdave6 wrote:
I just want to know, besides Steeler fans, who is calling him an elite quarterback?

I was merely responding to your use of the term in your post.  If "elite" QB means top 5-10, then Big Ben no doubt is an elite QB.  Regardless of stats, he WINS.

9/11/09   |   Jess   |   34438 respect

Brendanc8504 wrote:
I was just messin around........I watched the entire game last night, and what I came away with was the fact that Ben had a TON of time in the pocket. He is gonna tear teams apart if he has that much time to survey the field. There were a few instances where he got hit, or knocked down. That of course is what the experts are harping on, but I think that was more then the exception then the rule. When The line held, Ben had all day

I actually think that's what Pat's trying to say in the article - Ben's line gives him the time to pull off great plays. What does he do if his line doesn't hold and he doesn't have all day? Does he still tear teams apart? I think he's saying that people tend to give  too much credit to the QB in this case, and not enough to the entire team.

I'm not arguing with you here; I'm just saying that you basically just proved Pat's point - and it makes a lot of sense. I can see why the media hypes Ben up - there needs to be a hero to praise. I fail to see the logic in Steelers fans putting the QB above the rest of their team though, especially when it's the rest of the team that makes him look so good.

9/11/09   |   dumpsterdave6   |   1 respect

MrNFL wrote:
That's a GIANT stretch.  Eli doesn't have a 50% completion and a ton of interceptions.

Last Year: (Ben on top, Eli on bottom)  Statistically, they are pretty close actually, very similar sample sizes and very similar numbers.  But the key is the interception numbers, where Eli had a clear edge.

While Eli in his career has had INT issues (74 total, 3.2%)  he does have a better INT percentage than Ben (69 total, 3.6%) 

Personally, I think both players are inflated by the media, but I think Ben is more so IMO.

         
          Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A
            
       281 469 59.9 3301 17 3.6 15 3.2 65 7.0
           
      289 479 60.3 3238 21 4.4 10 2.1 48 6.8

Eli Manning blows too.

9/11/09   |   Yinzer   |   1 respect

looks like Ms. McNultys'  lawyers are getting desperate as of late. from the looks of your last post, im sure you have experience with women and lawyers.

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

(Edited by Jubanator14)

That's a GIANT stretch.  Eli doesn't have a 50% completion and a ton of interceptions.

Last Year: (Ben on top, Eli on bottom)  Statistically, they are pretty close actually, very similar sample sizes and very similar numbers.  But the key is the interception numbers, where Eli had a clear edge.

While Eli in his career has had INT issues (74 total, 3.2%)  he does have a better INT percentage than Ben (69 total, 3.6%) 

Personally, I think both players are inflated by the media, but I think Ben is more so IMO.

         

          Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A
            
       281 469 59.9 3301 17 3.6 15 3.2 65 7.0
           
      289 479 60.3 3238 21 4.4 10 2.1 48 6.8

9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

People from boston should stick to baseball.

9/11/09   |   uwgb44   |   28 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

Now put Peyton Manning at the helm behind that defence the last 5 years how many rings would they have then? Im thinking 3 or 4 who knows maybe 5

9/11/09   |   Mannysworld   |   121 respect

here is the thing, Fiirst I hate Big Ben, and don't think he is an elite QB. However, he can be and is a perfect fit for the Steelers. Isn't that whats most imprtant? He manages the games to THEIR game plan, not the Colts or the Patriots. I don't think he possesses the skills to thrive on other, more prolific systems, but he is a great fit for that team. How interchangeable he is into other systems is a different argument. 
I do agree with some of the other posts on here though, he, in no way, was responsible for that win last night.  Oh and Collinsworth is horrible as a color guy.....just saying

9/11/09   |   dumpsterdave6   |   1 respect

TheRoss wrote:
I have never seen anyone refer to him as the best Quarterback in the league. He is a good manager, and a good Quarterback, who makes big plays, but also makes some really bad plays as well. To me, I look at him like Troy Aikman. But Aikman had a better cast around him than Roethlisberger does. But Aikman was never an "elite" QB, and I don't think ben is either. But I have never gotten the idea that anyone outside of Pittsburgh did anyway.

Now you're comparing Aikman with Roethlisberger? Child Please.

9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

SaintDrew wrote:

Well if Manning, Brees, McNabb, Rivers all had the Steelers defense holding opponents down to 8 points a game I'm sure they would all have Super Bowl Championships right now too.

Philly and San Diego have had respectable defenses over the past years. And the Giants..if u mean Eli..or..Colts if you mean Peyton have had better D's since Dungy arrived. Plus both Mannings have won Superbowls.

9/11/09   |   tron8808   |   1 respect

 Big Ben leads the best 2 minute drill in football

9/11/09   |   dumpsterdave6   |   1 respect

Raider_Dave wrote:
Pro Bowls are not fair evaluations in determining whether or not a player is an "elite" player.  They are popularity contests that many players duck out of anyways.  But the biggest factor, is that the AFC QB picture has guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, and did have guys like Brett Favre, Jay Cutler, and Drew Brees in it in the past.  Pro Bowls do not constitute great or elite QB's, wins do, and Big Ben wins.

I just want to know, besides Steeler fans, who is calling him an elite quarterback?

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

Beaze wrote:
 It's all relative, I mean who would you rather have?  I'd rather have (in no particular order):

Brady
Peyton
Mc5 (McNabb for you non-Philadelphians)
Rivers
Brees

Drawing a blank...yup, that's it.  6?  I guess that is top 10.  

But stop hating on Big Ben man, he beat Shaq for crying out loud.  Tom Brady never beat Shaq!






Wow, Beaze?  I haven't seen that name on here in ages...

I'd rather have Brady, Peyton, McNabb, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Rodgers, Ryan.  Eli Manning, Cutler, Palmer are about even in my book with him.  So he's anywhere from 9th to 12th for me.

9/11/09   |   TheRoss   |   356 respect

I have never seen anyone refer to him as the best Quarterback in the league. He is a good manager, and a good Quarterback, who makes big plays, but also makes some really bad plays as well. To me, I look at him like Troy Aikman. But Aikman had a better cast around him than Roethlisberger does. But Aikman was never an "elite" QB, and I don't think ben is either. But I have never gotten the idea that anyone outside of Pittsburgh did anyway.

9/11/09   |   psukixaz

SaintDrew wrote:

Well if Manning, Brees, McNabb, Rivers all had the Steelers defense holding opponents down to 8 points a game I'm sure they would all have Super Bowl Championships right now too.

True.
I forgot that Brady and Manning didn't have defenses.  They got there all by themselves.

9/11/09   |   BigTone2475   |   326 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

It's called an elite defense just ask Trent Dilfer.

9/11/09   |   Dubya   |   39 respect

I don't care if people rate him as the #32 QB in the league. I want him as our QB. Facts are facts. The Steelers win with Roethlisberger playing QB. Won again last night. We had absolutely no running game. I think Ben had something to do with the win.

9/11/09   |   MrNFL   |   175 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

TEAMS win Super Bowls.

9/11/09   |   Yinzer   |   1 respect



nuff said :/

9/11/09   |   drn0iswatr   |   731 respect

there is no doubt that Big Ben is not elite - but he gets the job done...something my friend over in Arlington can't seem to do. 

9/11/09   |   SaintDrew   |   31 respect

psukixaz wrote:
Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

Well if Manning, Brees, McNabb, Rivers all had the Steelers defense holding opponents down to 8 points a game I'm sure they would all have Super Bowl Championships right now too.

9/11/09   |   Brendanc8504

I was just messin around........I watched the entire game last night, and what I came away with was the fact that Ben had a TON of time in the pocket. He is gonna tear teams apart if he has that much time to survey the field. There were a few instances where he got hit, or knocked down. That of course is what the experts are harping on, but I think that was more then the exception then the rule. When The line held, Ben had all day

9/11/09   |   Captain_Chaos   |   287 respect

Pat - i like reading your articles, but you use the word overrated way too much man. its starting to sound "over used" in your postings.

but a good writeup nonetheless

I have to disagree, Big Ben is not Overrated.........>Eli Manning is overrated.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Brendanc8504 wrote:
Mooser,

you didnt think I would let that comment slide did you? Yes, Bruschi said that, he is obviously not going to be one sided. But he said "one of the best" not the best. And he said best bruschi himself had played against....Bruschi didnt play against Tom Brady......the shrine stays

Mooser was pointing out that one of your former players is giving Big Ben a lot of credit, something Pat does not know how to do, EVER!

9/11/09   |   psukixaz

Brady 3 SB's won 9 years in the league.
Manning 1 SB won 11 years in the league.
McNabb 0 SB won 10 years in the league.
Rivers 0 SB won 5 years in the league.
Brees 0 SB won 8 years in the league.

ROETHLISBERGER 2 SB WON 5 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE

9/11/09   |   Brendanc8504

wrote:
Tedy Bruschi on the ESPN post game last night called Ben one of the best QB's in the league and the toughest he ever played against.  I guess you will have to take down your shrine to Tedy now PATriots fans.

Mooser,

you didnt think I would let that comment slide did you? Yes, Bruschi said that, he is obviously not going to be one sided. But he said "one of the best" not the best. And he said best bruschi himself had played against....Bruschi didnt play against Tom Brady......the shrine stays

9/11/09   |   Raider_Dave   |   47 respect

dumpsterdave6 wrote:
You always create your own argument with Roethlisberger. I hardly ever hear anyone call him an "elite" quarterback. He only has one Pro Bowl, so players, coaches and fans don't find him an elite quarterback. I don't see him in the Top 5 of any QB polls, so where are these people calling him elite? That being said, I like the fact that you hate him.

Pro Bowls are not fair evaluations in determining whether or not a player is an "elite" player.  They are popularity contests that many players duck out of anyways.  But the biggest factor, is that the AFC QB picture has guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, and did have guys like Brett Favre, Jay Cutler, and Drew Brees in it in the past.  Pro Bowls do not constitute great or elite QB's, wins do, and Big Ben wins.

9/11/09   |   cc87138713

Just because Ben has the backing of an incredible defense does not make him any less spectacular as a quarterback.  Several other teams that have a similair scheme e.g; Baltimore, cannot rely on their quarterback to make a game winning drive almost every time.  He evades being sacked many times a game, and keeps plays alive that most quarterbacks could not.  Comparing his stats to others isn't an effective argument, any quarterback (including Ben) would have much better stats if he were running a high octane offense *cough* *cough* Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.  Furthermore using his 1-2 TD-Interception ration isn't important because Ben is streaky at the right time, and throws very few interceptions in the post season.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Ben tries to make plays, he had a sack in which he had absolutely no time to throw the ball, he led yet another comeback, the Titans tried to force the ball into Ben's hands and he made them pay for it, one of those INTs was the hail mary at the end of the first half, and if you weren't the assistant editor, this would've never been featured.

9/11/09   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

Beaze wrote:
 It's all relative, I mean who would you rather have?  I'd rather have (in no particular order):

Brady
Peyton
Mc5 (McNabb for you non-Philadelphians)
Rivers
Brees

Drawing a blank...yup, that's it.  6?  I guess that is top 10.  

But stop hating on Big Ben man, he beat Shaq for crying out loud.  Tom Brady never beat Shaq!






BEAZE!

9/11/09   |   psukixaz

"So why do people think that Ben Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback? There's one clear answer. Because he plays for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Plain and simple. Of course, that's not what they would say, if you asked them. They might talk about his two Super Bowl rings. They might talk about his 18 game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime. They might talk about his one Pro Bowl-caliber season in 2007, when he threw 32 TD's. They might talk about how "tough" he is. They might mention that "his" winning percentage is as good as anyone else through their first 5 years in the league." - Pat

9/11/09   |   Raider_Dave   |   47 respect

In last night's game, as well as countless others, Ben keeps plays alive, and often turns broken ones into something positive.  He constantly found the open man last night, and showed a fantastic pocket presence while leading his team to an OT win that should've ended in regulation (Hines Ward's fumble).  He was a 77% passer against a very good team and a very solid defense, and the bottom line is that him (and his team) wins games.

9/11/09   |   dumpsterdave6   |   1 respect

You always create your own argument with Roethlisberger. I hardly ever hear anyone call him an "elite" quarterback. He only has one Pro Bowl, so players, coaches and fans don't find him an elite quarterback. I don't see him in the Top 5 of any QB polls, so where are these people calling him elite? That being said, I like the fact that you hate him.

9/11/09   |   Beaze   |   271 respect

 It's all relative, I mean who would you rather have?  I'd rather have (in no particular order):

Brady
Peyton
Mc5 (McNabb for you non-Philadelphians)
Rivers
Brees

Drawing a blank...yup, that's it.  6?  I guess that is top 10.  

But stop hating on Big Ben man, he beat Shaq for crying out loud.  Tom Brady never beat Shaq!






9/11/09   |   WV_Mountaineer   |   118 respect

The Steelers are arguably the best franchise in football, look who they pick to be their guarterback.

9/11/09   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

keppieboy wrote:
 All this guy does is win and win ugly.

All this guy team does is win and win ugly.

/fixed

9/11/09   |   keppieboy   |   158 respect

 All this guy does is win and win ugly.

9/11/09   |   Raider_Dave   |   47 respect

Big Ben is a fantastic QB and a great game manager, please get over it already.  Sure he was god-awful in both his Super Bowl appearances, but he has two rings, and is among the best game managers in the league.