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5/11/09
David Ortiz Should Be Traded By The Red Sox
Is It Time To Trade David Ortiz? Logic Says Yes.
It's never easy to talk about trading away the face of a franchise, but since sports is a business, this discussion inevitably comes up from time to time. And right now, it's something the Red Sox should be discussing.

I'm of course talking about trading David Ortiz. If the Red Sox are smart, they should do everything possible to try and move this guy sometime this season.

Why? Let's get right to it.

Ortiz is 33, which means his best years are behind him. That's evidenced by the fact that he spent most of last year out with a busted wrist and has followed that injury plagued season with a paltry .221 average and no home runs in 2009. On top of all this, he's still owed $25 million per his contract (which ends in 2010). He's obviously not worth that all.

The other troubling thing is that while most players start to deteriorate around ages 33-35, there's legitimate concern that Ortiz may have spent his best years with the Red Sox on steroids, thereby inflating his numbers. So rather than deteriorating slowly, Ortiz is dropping off a cliff like a rock, due the combination of age and being off the juice.

And let me just say this. Almost no one gets better after 33 without being on something, especially with Papi's body type. So if the Red Sox believe the old Papi is going to return, then I hope they found some new undetectable designer steroid, because other than that it's not happening.

It's also not crazy for the Red Sox to consider dealing Ortiz. They desperately need a shortstop more than they need an aging DH. Certainly, at this point in time, with questions about Ortiz's health and possible past steroid use, you're really only going to get pennies on the dollar by trading him. But getting rid of that hefty salary might allow you to sign a decent shortstop before the 2010 season, and it's just possible you might actually pick up a decent prospect in a trade if you package someone else in with Ortiz.

This, of course, isn't an ideal situation. It's never fun having to trade away a guy who was the face of a franchise and who helped "Reverse The Curse." But this is the way things are. Ortiz is hurting the Red Sox right now, and he's going to continue to hurt them as long as he's on the roster. Even if all the Red Sox can do is unload him for next to nothing, it's still better than keeping him as a highly paid souvenir of the good old days.

Trade the franchise? It might help. [
Wall Street Journal]
35 comments
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5/11/09
10
Brendanc8504 wrote:
David Ortiz set the record for home runs in a season in 06. helped win the world series in 07, was injured in 08 with a wrist injury, and has gotten off to a slow start in 09. Yeah, we should get rid of him now before its too late......or we could not give up on him.

I'm sorry but your justification sounds very Dan Duquett-esk. Remember, he was the guy that said Clemens was past his prime? And your argument is based around Papi used to be on the juice, which has never been proven. Thanks for the advice though.
To be fair, Clemens WAS past his prime. He just happened to enjoy the benefits of ANOTHER prime, thanks to performance enhancing drugs.

And while it has never been proven, there are a ridiculous amount of signs pointing to Ortiz using them as well.

5/11/09
7
(Edited by radiowave000)
WHO is Boston gonna trade him to?  You just made the argument that he's old and on the downside. Who needs a washed up DH? Cleveland already has Hafner.

5/11/09
0
David Ortiz set the record for home runs in a season in 06. helped win the world series in 07, was injured in 08 with a wrist injury, and has gotten off to a slow start in 09. Yeah, we should get rid of him now before its too late......or we could not give up on him.

I'm sorry but your justification sounds very Dan Duquett-esk. Remember, he was the guy that said Clemens was past his prime? And your argument is based around Papi used to be on the juice, which has never been proven. Thanks for the advice though.

5/11/09
10
Brendanc8504 wrote:
David Ortiz set the record for home runs in a season in 06. helped win the world series in 07, was injured in 08 with a wrist injury, and has gotten off to a slow start in 09. Yeah, we should get rid of him now before its too late......or we could not give up on him.

I'm sorry but your justification sounds very Dan Duquett-esk. Remember, he was the guy that said Clemens was past his prime? And your argument is based around Papi used to be on the juice, which has never been proven. Thanks for the advice though.
To be fair, Clemens WAS past his prime. He just happened to enjoy the benefits of ANOTHER prime, thanks to performance enhancing drugs.

And while it has never been proven, there are a ridiculous amount of signs pointing to Ortiz using them as well.

5/11/09
1
Brendanc8504 wrote:
David Ortiz set the record for home runs in a season in 06. helped win the world series in 07, was injured in 08 with a wrist injury, and has gotten off to a slow start in 09. Yeah, we should get rid of him now before its too late......or we could not give up on him.

I'm sorry but your justification sounds very Dan Duquett-esk. Remember, he was the guy that said Clemens was past his prime? And your argument is based around Papi used to be on the juice, which has never been proven. Thanks for the advice though.
Clemens was past his prime. Then he shot himself up with enough 'roids to kill a bull. Using Clemens as an example of a player who did well late in his career is ridiculous. Why stop with Clemens? I hear Barry Bonds had a pretty good late career too.

5/11/09
1
OK, so ill give you props on the Clemens response. I can agree with that.

Whether Ortiz is worth 25 million over the next year and a half however is debatable, not as you say not worth it. It is still yet to be seen what Papi is going to bring to the table this year. I don't think that 39 games into the season is enough of  a scale to determine what his production will be.

I also didn't know we desperately needed a shortstop. We have 3 of them, Lugo, nick Green, and....there is a 3rd forgive me for not being able to come up with his name at the moment. Green has been hittin the ball pretty well, but regardless the Red Sox have not had stability at that position pretty much since Nomar was traded, so why do we now desperately need to trade Big Papi to address the situation?

5/11/09
7
This is garbage.  Ortiz is returning from surgery that directly impacts his swing.  He's not even a year removed from that surgery.  It's MAY 11.  It is much too early to suggest he be traded.  Drop him to 6th in the order for a couple of weeks.  If he doesn't snap out of it by then, maybe we'll see.

I just love how we're declaring everyone in baseball that hits home runs a user of roids now.  That's where we are headed, aren't we?  This is infuriating.

5/11/09
6
The concept of this article is all wrong.  Branch Rickey always said it is better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.  It is obviously one year too late on Papi.  They will have to hope he adjusts and regains his stroke themselves, because no one will trade for him now.  It would have been better to trade him last year or right after 2007.  I mean, they apparently traded Manny at the right time...

And Ortiz's drop off this year is more likely a combination of injury, age, and lack of Manny protecting him, steroids would be a distant fourth, if for whatever reason he chose this year to go off them (considering they have been extensively testing for four years now, this seem an odd option).  It happens to a lot of sluggers; they lose a couple inches on the swing and take a long time to adjust (or worse, don't adjust at all).  For example, Carlos Delgado looked like he was absolutely done last year the first 2 months of the season.  At age 36, he was over swinging, over compensating, flying open, head moving...he was a mess and the Mets were thisclose to releasing him.  Then he adjusted, found his swing again, and put up a season's worth of numbers in 3 1/2 months.  Now, this has happened a lot over the history of baseball, unfortunately now, steroids makes everyone a suspect.  If Papi snaps out of it and starts mashing suddenly, the whispers start.  It is a very messy time to be an aging baseball player.

5/11/09
1
Brendanc8504 wrote:
OK, so ill give you props on the Clemens response. I can agree with that.

Whether Ortiz is worth 25 million over the next year and a half however is debatable, not as you say not worth it. It is still yet to be seen what Papi is going to bring to the table this year. I don't think that 39 games into the season is enough of  a scale to determine what his production will be.

I also didn't know we desperately needed a shortstop. We have 3 of them, Lugo, nick Green, and....there is a 3rd forgive me for not being able to come up with his name at the moment. Green has been hittin the ball pretty well, but regardless the Red Sox have not had stability at that position pretty much since Nomar was traded, so why do we now desperately need to trade Big Papi to address the situation?
Jed Lowrie

5/11/09
1
Pat wrote:
Jed Lowrie
ty

5/11/09
2
jacobmrley wrote:
The concept of this article is all wrong.  Branch Rickey always said it is better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.  It is obviously one year too late on Papi.  They will have to hope he adjusts and regains his stroke themselves, because no one will trade for him now.  It would have been better to trade him last year or right after 2007.  I mean, they apparently traded Manny at the right time...

And Ortiz's drop off this year is more likely a combination of injury, age, and lack of Manny protecting him, steroids would be a distant fourth, if for whatever reason he chose this year to go off them (considering they have been extensively testing for four years now, this seem an odd option).  It happens to a lot of sluggers; they lose a couple inches on the swing and take a long time to adjust (or worse, don't adjust at all).  For example, Carlos Delgado looked like he was absolutely done last year the first 2 months of the season.  At age 36, he was over swinging, over compensating, flying open, head moving...he was a mess and the Mets were thisclose to releasing him.  Then he adjusted, found his swing again, and put up a season's worth of numbers in 3 1/2 months.  Now, this has happened a lot over the history of baseball, unfortunately now, steroids makes everyone a suspect.  If Papi snaps out of it and starts mashing suddenly, the whispers start.  It is a very messy time to be an aging baseball player.
The lack of Manny protection is a HUGE factor in it. Manny/Ortiz was a double headed Monster that nobody wanted to deal with, well whats the easiest way to defeat a double headed Monster? Start by cutting off one of its heads!

People are going to find out real quick though that even though Jason Bay doesnt have dreadlocks, he can provide some protection to Ortiz. Once people realize that, this problem goes away

5/11/09
3
How much value does he even have at this point? I think he's much more valuable to the SOX, once he pulls it together, than he would be to another team.

5/11/09
2
Brendanc8504 wrote:
The lack of Manny protection is a HUGE factor in it. Manny/Ortiz was a double headed Monster that nobody wanted to deal with, well whats the easiest way to defeat a double headed Monster? Start by cutting off one of its heads!

People are going to find out real quick though that even though Jason Bay doesnt have dreadlocks, he can provide some protection to Ortiz. Once people realize that, this problem goes away
Bay is getting pitched to, and he is knocking the f**k outta the ball. So your point is on target - they will soon pitch around him and pitch to Ortiz.  It is up to Papi to take advantage of it.

5/11/09
2
jacobmrley wrote:
Bay is getting pitched to, and he is knocking the f**k outta the ball. So your point is on target - they will soon pitch around him and pitch to Ortiz.  It is up to Papi to take advantage of it.
as it lies right now, I wouldn't want anyone up to bat in the eighth inning or later more then Jason Bay.

5/11/09
5

Boston will not trade him...and here's why:

1)   They would not risk trading him to an AL team that would have a chance of making it to the World Series

2)   Another AL team that does not have a realistic shot at the World Series wouldn't want him

3)   He's a DH now, which rules out pretty much the entire NL


So...........who's left ?     

(It's one thing to say someone should be traded, but try coming up with a potential suitor !    I just don't see any out there.    Actually, the team that may make sense could be the Yankees......but something tells me that won't pull a trade off....call me crazy !!! )


5/11/09
3
exactly, this sports news came from the Wall Street Journal? Yeah, cause that's what I want the people on wall st to be focusing on. The Redsox trading Papi, not getting our economy out of the toilet

5/11/09
2
snbslugger wrote:
This is garbage.  Ortiz is returning from surgery that directly impacts his swing.  He's not even a year removed from that surgery.  It's MAY 11.  It is much too early to suggest he be traded.  Drop him to 6th in the order for a couple of weeks.  If he doesn't snap out of it by then, maybe we'll see.

I just love how we're declaring everyone in baseball that hits home runs a user of roids now.  That's where we are headed, aren't we?  This is infuriating.
I agree we are all making snap judgements what ever happened to the idea that players do go hot or cold during the season

5/11/09
4
Ortiz is untradeable because if he picks it back up, there will be no need to trade him, and if he stays in the toilet, no one will want to pick up that $25 million.

5/11/09
0
I don't think they can trade him if they wanted to, unless they traded him for a sack of bats like that minor league dude a while back.

5/11/09
0
No not my papi !!!

5/11/09
1
 I'll just tell you this, he's not going to get traded.  I don't see him getting that upper in fast ball hit anymore.  He needs to work with a team that has a slugger who's a stud so that it can help.

5/11/09
0
first he is untradeable currently with that contact, second his performance would get them nothing of consquence, thirdly it takes awhile to come back from wrist surgry. so lets see where he stands at the end of june

5/11/09
0
bjaffe wrote:
first he is untradeable currently with that contact, second his performance would get them nothing of consquence, thirdly it takes awhile to come back from wrist surgry. so lets see where he stands at the end of june
 I agree fully but his bat still isn't catching up with that high inside fastball I think he's just in the decline of his career.

5/11/09
1
i dont want to admit it...but ur right!! hes been in a slump the past season and hes in one now!! id hate the sox to trade him...but its true! being a sox fan and all...u probably wouldnt be hearing this. but come on!! TEK is doing better than him. im sory...but its true!!!

5/11/09
0
The problem isn't Ortiz. The problem is he doesn't have the protection he once had in the lineup. Whether you liked Manny being Manny or not (I am on the "not" side), he had a huge impact on the effectiveness of Big Papi. I'm sorry, but Jason Bay just doesn't quite have the same effect.

5/11/09
0
WhoDat12 wrote:
The problem isn't Ortiz. The problem is he doesn't have the protection he once had in the lineup. Whether you liked Manny being Manny or not (I am on the "not" side), he had a huge impact on the effectiveness of Big Papi. I'm sorry, but Jason Bay just doesn't quite have the same effect.
So... that's why he's not hitting with any power at all?

Sorry, not buying it.

5/12/09
0
Brendanc8504 wrote:
OK, so ill give you props on the Clemens response. I can agree with that.

Whether Ortiz is worth 25 million over the next year and a half however is debatable, not as you say not worth it. It is still yet to be seen what Papi is going to bring to the table this year. I don't think that 39 games into the season is enough of  a scale to determine what his production will be.

I also didn't know we desperately needed a shortstop. We have 3 of them, Lugo, nick Green, and....there is a 3rd forgive me for not being able to come up with his name at the moment. Green has been hittin the ball pretty well, but regardless the Red Sox have not had stability at that position pretty much since Nomar was traded, so why do we now desperately need to trade Big Papi to address the situation?
The Red Sox have Julio Lugo, Nick Green, and Jed Lowrie to fill the shortstop position.  Lugo is a question mark, Nick Green, even though he is only 30 years old has been enjoying a career year at shortstop for Boston.  The team gave him a chance and he has made the most of it, accumulating more at bats, more hits, more doubles, RBI's, over a .300 batting average, than he has had in the past five years combined and he only has 76 at bats so far.  Lowrie is hurt and the Red Sox add a new dimension to their offense with Green in the lineup every game.  I have to agree though that Ortiz is ready to move onto greener pastures and I hear that the Dodgers could use a player like him.  He could join Manny and play first.  His stats are guaranteed to explode dramatically, for the simple reason all the pitchers in the National League will throw him mistakes, just as they did with manny last year.  He could be the final piece of the puzzle that takes the Dodgers into the playoffs and they have the budget to pay him his outrageous salary.  To explain his no homeruns, pitchers know how to pitch to big papi and he is now prone to inside fastballs, due to age and his swing slowing down.  Pitchers can work around him and take their chances with Bay.  If you never see the ball over the plate, Babe Ruth wouldn't hit any home runs either.

5/12/09
0
WhoDat12 wrote:
The problem isn't Ortiz. The problem is he doesn't have the protection he once had in the lineup. Whether you liked Manny being Manny or not (I am on the "not" side), he had a huge impact on the effectiveness of Big Papi. I'm sorry, but Jason Bay just doesn't quite have the same effect.
Disagree I think Ortiz is just going past his prime, I mean Bay is absolutely no slouch what so ever and I would venture to say it's a little insulting to say that bout the guy.  Not his fault he was stuck on the Pirates before getting to Boston.  The protection thing wouldn't help with him not getting on that upper cheese he's just losing the bat speed to keep up on it.  Whether ur on the side of he did or didn't roid he's still just slow and he's getting older talking about 05 and 06 is 4 or 3 years go that's a lot of wear and tear on a guy who's in the post season every year going deep and playing in arguably the hardest division in baseball.

As for the shortstop I thought they were a fan of Lowrie from what I understood.  Lugo is old and I don't know enough about Green to comment.  Last I remember their strength was a strong pitching staff with a good overall team with clutch hitting from ManRam/Papi.  They'd get on base move players and then get those runs in and their pitching staff was smashing the opponents so...I would look to get that staff back to championship level.  I haven't heard much on their staff this year been mainly keeping an eye on the teams I enjoy Indians, Rangers, & Phillies.

Last I check a career of: .284 .347 OBP .522 SLG and .901 OPS and hitting no less than 21 homers since being a full time player in '04 on the dreadful Pirates (u know that has to affect his overall numbers) is a guy who can't get it done.  23 hr's with the Bucs traded to Bos 12 hr's in 49 games I think dude can ball.

5/12/09
0
no gm in their right mind would trade a dozen donuts for big floppy. enjoy wasting that 25 mil boston.

5/12/09
0
voiceofreason wrote:
The Red Sox have Julio Lugo, Nick Green, and Jed Lowrie to fill the shortstop position.  Lugo is a question mark, Nick Green, even though he is only 30 years old has been enjoying a career year at shortstop for Boston.  The team gave him a chance and he has made the most of it, accumulating more at bats, more hits, more doubles, RBI's, over a .300 batting average, than he has had in the past five years combined and he only has 76 at bats so far.  Lowrie is hurt and the Red Sox add a new dimension to their offense with Green in the lineup every game.  I have to agree though that Ortiz is ready to move onto greener pastures and I hear that the Dodgers could use a player like him.  He could join Manny and play first.  His stats are guaranteed to explode dramatically, for the simple reason all the pitchers in the National League will throw him mistakes, just as they did with manny last year.  He could be the final piece of the puzzle that takes the Dodgers into the playoffs and they have the budget to pay him his outrageous salary.  To explain his no homeruns, pitchers know how to pitch to big papi and he is now prone to inside fastballs, due to age and his swing slowing down.  Pitchers can work around him and take their chances with Bay.  If you never see the ball over the plate, Babe Ruth wouldn't hit any home runs either.
No way would I send Ortiz to the same place Manny is.......I have already seen that movie, I don't  need to see it again.

"Lugo is a question mark, Nick Green, even though he is only 30 years old has been enjoying a career year at shortstop for Boston"

A career year? You realize its only May right? You know the season just started last month right? Just had to make sure I don't know about the term "career year" but he has been hitting the ball well and he is good on defense.

5/12/09
0
PewterPower wrote:
no gm in their right mind would trade a dozen donuts for big floppy. enjoy wasting that 25 mil boston.
we will enjoy what we get from that 25 mil.....enjoy watching

 
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