Detroit Tigers Working on Miguel Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis Trade | MLB | Florida Marlins

578 days ago

drewstapes

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I must admit I've never heard of Andrew Miller - but would you make him untouchable if you have a chance to get both Cabrera and D-Train?

578 days ago

Seth

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Willis really seems to becoming a very average pitcher, and given that the Red Sox and Yankees are both refusing to offer up two of their best prospects in a deal for Johan Santana I can't see why Detroit would give up their best two for Cabrera and a #3 pitcher (Verlander and Bonderman are better)

578 days ago

mell_1289

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The Tigers organization has already stated that both Maybin and Miller are untouchable so I don't see this deal going down.

578 days ago

kantwistaye

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It has amazed me how untouchable prospects have become in the past couple of years. As a small market team, I can understand why. However, if you're the Yankees, Red Sox, or any other big market team, I think I'd be a bit more willing to let them go. Granted, Maybin and Miller are top of the line prospects, but I'd definitely give up one of them for Cabrera.

578 days ago

CHansen

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kantwistaye wrote:

It has amazed me how untouchable prospects have become in the past couple of years. As a small market team, I can understand why. However, if you're the Yankees, Red Sox, or any other big market team, I think I'd be a bit more willing to let them go. Granted, Maybin and Miller are top of the line prospects, but I'd definitely give up one of them for Cabrera.

I saw a line on this last season at the trade deadline, where the experts were noting that organizations are simply not willing to get rid of prospects for a chance to win now. It's just a change in philosophy, I suppose.

If I were the Tigers, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Miller certainly has potential, but the Tigers are ready to win NOW, especially with the Twins and White Sox being so down, and there is no guarantee that they will be in a position to compete when Miller is an effective MLB pitcher. How much longer is Pudge going to be there and be effective? Rogers? Ordonez? Guillen? Polanco, Renteria, Shef, etc.? The rest of the core of their team? I know they have some young talent but they would be serious championship contenders this season if they added Willis, and Cabrera would be an absolute monster in a spot where the Tigers need someone.

578 days ago

Seth

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It may be that our first big deal might be Erik Bedard to the Dodgers.

578 days ago

CriticalFanatic

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Seth wrote:

It may be that our first big deal might be Erik Bedard to the Dodgers.

Good for him. He deserves to play somewhere where his efforts will result in more wins.

578 days ago

CHansen

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Seth wrote:

It may be that our first big deal might be Erik Bedard to the Dodgers.

You mean the Royals initial agreement with suspected steroid user Jose Guillen for $12m/year wasn't a big deal?

What's up with that, anyway? Are they going to fill out their outfield with Brady Anderson and Sammy Sosa too?

578 days ago

kantwistaye

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CHansen wrote:

You mean the Royals initial agreement with suspected steroid user Jose Guillen for $12m/year wasn't a big deal?

What's up with that, anyway? Are they going to fill out their outfield with Brady Anderson and Sammy Sosa too?

Hold up... 12 mil a year?!?! I know they want to make it look like they are trying to win, but spread that 12 mil out a little bit over a couple of guys.

578 days ago

CHansen

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kantwistaye wrote:

Hold up... 12 mil a year?!?! I know they want to make it look like they are trying to win, but spread that 12 mil out a little bit over a couple of guys.

Well, the rumor is that they are strongly going after Kuroda for over $12m/year and Andruw for well over that amount, as well. The Royals are apparently trying to make a heck of a splash this year. I read somewhere that they have huge operating profits in the past few years thanks to the revenue sharing and not spending the money on players. Maybe this is the year they get serious about it.

578 days ago

MrNFL

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ESPN just said it'll be offical. They got Willis and Cabrera for a bunch of young players, such as Miller and Raybin.

578 days ago

kantwistaye

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Thats one heckuva lineup for Detriot.

Supposedly the Rolen to Milwaukee trade is off and won't happen.

578 days ago

Seth

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CHansen wrote:

You mean the Royals initial agreement with suspected steroid user Jose Guillen for $12m/year wasn't a big deal?

What's up with that, anyway? Are they going to fill out their outfield with Brady Anderson and Sammy Sosa too?

It may be unfounded but I have actually heard a rumor that KC was interest in Sosa.

578 days ago

BestofChicago

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Some sources say the deal is already accepted by both teams.

578 days ago

CHansen

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Seth wrote:

It may be unfounded but I have actually heard a rumor that KC was interest in Sosa.

Yeah, I actually read that as well, which is why I included Sammy in the comment. I don't think it will happen though, since the Royals already have a glut in the outfield and are still actively pursuing Andruw, although it's a longshot.

On paper, the Tigers now have the best lineup in professional baseball. Anyone disagree with that? I suppose you could make a case for the Yankees, Red Sox, and maybe the Indians and Angels, depending on what the Angels end up doing. But, I think the Tigers should have the best lineup in the MLB now. The rotation ain't bad, either.

578 days ago

Pat

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CHansen wrote:

Yeah, I actually read that as well, which is why I included Sammy in the comment. I don't think it will happen though, since the Royals already have a glut in the outfield and are still actively pursuing Andruw, although it's a longshot.

On paper, the Tigers now have the best lineup in professional baseball. Anyone disagree with that? I suppose you could make a case for the Yankees, Red Sox, and maybe the Indians and Angels, depending on what the Angels end up doing. But, I think the Tigers should have the best lineup in the MLB now. The rotation ain't bad, either.

Granderson, Pudge, Sheff, Maggs, Cabrera, Polanco...I'm a Sox fan, and I'd love to have that lineup.

That being said...with guys like Pedroia and Ellsbury, it's hard to gauge exactly how good the Sox will be at the plate over the course of an entire season.

578 days ago

CriticalFanatic

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CHansen wrote:

Yeah, I actually read that as well, which is why I included Sammy in the comment. I don't think it will happen though, since the Royals already have a glut in the outfield and are still actively pursuing Andruw, although it's a longshot.

On paper, the Tigers now have the best lineup in professional baseball. Anyone disagree with that? I suppose you could make a case for the Yankees, Red Sox, and maybe the Indians and Angels, depending on what the Angels end up doing. But, I think the Tigers should have the best lineup in the MLB now. The rotation ain't bad, either.

Yeah that's a pretty kick ass lineup. I think Miller wins a Cy Young in a few years, but the Tigers have stepped it up to join the Red Sox and Yanks in the playoffs.

Batting order projection?

Granderson
Renteria
Cabrera
Maggs
Sheffield
Pudge
Polanco
Doesn't matter
Doesn't matter

578 days ago

CHansen

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CriticalFanatic wrote:

Yeah that's a pretty kick ass lineup. I think Miller wins a Cy Young in a few years, but the Tigers have stepped it up to join the Red Sox and Yanks in the playoffs.

Batting order projection?

Granderson
Renteria
Cabrera
Maggs
Sheffield
Pudge
Polanco
Doesn't matter
Doesn't matter

Miller is all "projection" at this point, but he definitely looks promising. I take objection to you having Carlos Guillen (.859 OPS last year at SS, should definitely be better as a 1b) as a "doesn't matter", since he's an awfully good offensive player.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the Tigers now are able to trade away Inge and Thames, which should net them some pretty decent players, as well. This is a really fun trade (especially as an outsider) that should benefit both teams in their goals. Beyond the Box Score (sabermetrics blog) has a nice write-up on it, fwiw. http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2007/12/4/193943/719

577 days ago

CriticalFanatic

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CHansen wrote:

Miller is all "projection" at this point, but he definitely looks promising. I take objection to you having Carlos Guillen (.859 OPS last year at SS, should definitely be better as a 1b) as a "doesn't matter", since he's an awfully good offensive player.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the Tigers now are able to trade away Inge and Thames, which should net them some pretty decent players, as well. This is a really fun trade (especially as an outsider) that should benefit both teams in their goals. Beyond the Box Score (sabermetrics blog) has a nice write-up on it, fwiw. http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2007/12/4/193943/719

Ah yes, that guy. Oops. He matters.

I agree I like this trade for both team and BTBS summed it up well.

577 days ago

ahusted

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I don't understand how you trade away the entire farm system for a .500 pitcher and a IF you will be a DH in 2 years because he is so fat.

D-Train was all but forgotten in Florida last year and because ESPN says he is still good, everyone believes. he had near career lows in strikeouts, career highs in walks last season. he started 35 games without a complete game and is sub-.500 over the last two seasons with a 4+ ERA. now he is in ballparks that give up more HRs than the NL East ballparks and he doesn't get to hit (one of his strong suits).

Good luck with your old ass ex steroid users Detroit...you'll have a DL full of them by July.

577 days ago

Anthonyg7575

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(Edited 12/05/07 9:41AM by Anthonyg7575)

I know Miller and Maybin are considered "Top" prospects, but so far from what I've seen I'm not impressed. Miller is a combined 5-6 with a 5.69 ERA in 21 career games (including 13 starts in 2007), with 49 walks in 74.1 career innings. (Nice control) . Maybin got his first shot in the Majors this year and batted a whopping .143 in 49 at-bats with 21 (yes TWENTY-ONE) strikeouts. I'm actually more impressed with the numbers Badenhop and Trahern have put up in the minors....

577 days ago

gearhead

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Anthonyg7575 wrote:

I know Miller and Maybin are considered "Top" prospects, but so far from what I've seen I'm not impressed. Miller is a combined 5-6 with a 5.69 ERA in 21 career games (including 13 starts in 2007), with 49 walks in 74.1 career innings. (Nice control) . Maybin got his first shot in the Majors this year and batted a whopping .143 in 49 at-bats with 21 (yes TWENTY-ONE) strikeouts. I'm actually more impressed with the numbers Badenhop and Trahern have put up in the minors....

The key there is 74.1 innings and 49 at-bats. The sample size was too small to conclude much of anything from it, especially Maybin, who was only 20 and likely rushed by the Tigers those 24 games. Maybin's minor league numbers are very impressive given his age. Ditto Miller compared to Badenhop, because Badenhop is already 24, which is old for AA and ancient for A ball.

576 days ago

Anthonyg7575

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gearhead wrote:

The key there is 74.1 innings and 49 at-bats. The sample size was too small to conclude much of anything from it, especially Maybin, who was only 20 and likely rushed by the Tigers those 24 games. Maybin's minor league numbers are very impressive given his age. Ditto Miller compared to Badenhop, because Badenhop is already 24, which is old for AA and ancient for A ball.

I understand that but, when you trade away 2 of the biggest guys on your roster away, I want at least 1 of the guys to be Major League ready relatively soon. I don't think any of these guys are close to ready yet.