Please sign in to complete your action
 
DONE!
Cheer and debate with
6,000,000+ fans!
My Team:
Charlotte
My Team:
Michael
My Team:
Britney
6/10/08
Did Junior Waste His Ability?
We Expected More From Junior. We Expected Too Little From Bonds.


Points for debate:

Did Junior live up to his potential?

And how does Bonds' ceiling stack up against his?

Considering that Griffey is now a member of one of baseball’s most elite fraternities, he has accomplished more than all but a handful of outfielders—and really, all players in general—in the history of the game. Although his numbers have diminished, his sweet swing hasn’t. Although the electricity he exudes from the field has almost zapped out, the electricity he generates in the stands will never waver. Junior the “ballplayer” is no longer the competitor he once was, but his legend precedes him. There are few who have attained such status. To large extent, Bonds does not have this larger-than-life appeal because we disdain him with such vehemence.

However, Junior's injury woes have indubitably cast doubt on the level of his greatness. Were he able to stay healthy, he may have been considered the greatest; as it stands, he is great, but greater than most, not all. Bonds, no matter his awful reputation, was able to ascend the mountain with constancy. Junior’s path was more disjointed, and as a result, less staggering, but staggering nonetheless.

It is well documented that Griffey was hardly a reputable “worker” off of the field; that is, he practically coasted on his Mays-like supernatural talent and never sought to preserve it or enhance it through training or practice as others with lesser gifts did. In Seattle, it worked out well; in Cincinnati, not so much.

His body is a derivative of what it once was, and with his flawless swing, who knows what would’ve happened if he managed to preserve his legs? Did his body fail him or did he fail his body? Steroid-free or not—which, by the way, can never be overstated as a testament to the reality that Junior may be the last “clean” great of his kind—he was not the machine that Bonds was into the twilight of his career, nor was he able to maintain consistency in the vein of Hank Aaron. The last few years have shown us flashbacks of Junior’s former greatness, but his level of Gold Glove play and .300, 40 HR, 110 RBI seasons have gone by the wayside.

Although he’s almost 40. I shouldn't be so hard on him.

Here’s the interesting and unavoidable dichotomy of baseball’s current era: Bonds exceeded his natural potential because of unnatural habits, and Junior never reached his ceiling because he chose not to reach for it.

Fair or unfair?
21 comments
Vote!
Comment!
Your votes determine top comment

6/10/08
4

Griff's whole problem was that Cincy's pitching staff was such a joke for that long that he (as well as plenty of other players, I think at one point the past few years that almost all of the non-pitchers were all guys in AAA because of the injuries) was injured having to make an insane play in the field because the pitchers couldn't get anyone out.


6/10/08
2
I'm a Bonds guy, so I'm sort of biased, but I will say this. What always impressed me about Bonds was how motivated he was to become the best player ever. Yes, he cheated, but his drive and commitment to reaching that goal was unreal.

As much as I like Griffey, he spent too much of his career coasting in the offseason and relying solely on natural talent, and it caught up to him in his 30s. I don't think all of his injuries were the result of a lack of training, but some sure were - like every hamstring he ever pulled.

I just wish we'd seen half the commitment that Bonds had in Griffey. Then Griffey would probably be without question the greatest player ever.

6/10/08
2
Leg injuries limited his career...come on...he would have easily hit 700+ hr's if healthy!

6/10/08
4

Griff's whole problem was that Cincy's pitching staff was such a joke for that long that he (as well as plenty of other players, I think at one point the past few years that almost all of the non-pitchers were all guys in AAA because of the injuries) was injured having to make an insane play in the field because the pitchers couldn't get anyone out.


6/10/08
3
Even though his career has been marred by these injuries he still just hit his 600th homerun.  Yes he lived up to his potential.  He lived up to being one of the greatest to ever play the game.  5 tools..  1st ballot hall of famer..  And that is with missing about 3 years due to injury..  And no steroids..

6/10/08
1
(Edited by TheBigThree)
I agree that at "the end of the day it's just a game."

But the end of the day, it's also a job.

We treat Junior's job and Sheed's job with reverence, because they are unconventional jobs in which we have a vested interest.  In the same way that Sheed's teammates may be pissed at him for performing poorly when it was within his power to play with more focus, many coworkers may be pissed at a generic corporate employee if he or she lounges on the job and adversely affect the company as a result.

I haven't a clue what has gone through Griffey's mind through his career as it relates to his balance between life and game/job.  His OD may have been a tipping point, but by the same token, it may have just been the compulsive reaction of a raw teenager unsure how to handle the overwhelming pressure that had enveloped his life at such a young age.  He had big shoes to fill, and as fate would have it, his feet ended up growing several proverbial sizes larger than his father's cleats could accommodate.

I think Junior's lax off-field demeanor can best be explained by the fact that nary has he played for a contender.  The 90s Mariners were, by and large, mediocre and not good.  The Reds have been and still are -- more than by and large, but in totality -- awful.  There is no incentive for him to improve his play from what he can already accomplish off of raw talent, because an outfielder is incapable of hoisting a team on his back for 162 games to the point of a playoff push.  Had Junior spent his entire career in Seattle, he may have staved off many of his injuries (after all, the M's have had solid and even exceptional seasons in recent years).  Had he left Seattle for a club like New York, he may have taken off and become Ruth's heir.  We'll never know, and that's fine with me.  It's just a shame that we couldn't have seen what numbers he would have posted at or near full health for the past several years.

6/10/08
2
derms33 wrote:
Leg injuries limited his career...come on...he would have easily hit 700+ hr's if healthy!
One could make the same argument for Mickey Mantle. Unfortunately, injuries are a part of the game.

6/10/08
2
Bonds got up at 6 am every morning, went to the track to run for 2 hours, came home, ate breakfast, and then went to the gym for 4 hours.  He was perhaps the hardest working baseball player of all time.  Forget the steroids-they helped him break a record, but not nearly as much as Bonds' work ethic.  Griffey showed flashes of talent like Bonds, but couldn't sustain, for whatever the reason.  I think it was partially due to really bad luck.

What makes Bonds the best hitter in baseball was his eye, not his HR total.  His OBP was ridiculous, and his offensive numbers were always dampened by the # of Walks he got.  Also, Griffey got pitched to a ton more than Bonds did.  Especially in his peak years in Seattle when he had Jay Buhner and Edgar Martinez, among others, batting behind him.  The best offensive player who played with Bonds on the GIants was Jeff Kent or Rich Aurilia, and both of those only had one good offensive year each. 

6/10/08
2
Jon wrote:
One could make the same argument for Mickey Mantle. Unfortunately, injuries are a part of the game.
no doubt but getting wasted and ruining your liver aren't part of Griffey's game...however had he used the "Bonds" medicine he would have easily hit 700+

6/11/08
2
spankyc14 wrote:
Bonds got up at 6 am every morning, went to the track to run for 2 hours, came home, ate breakfast, and then went to the gym for 4 hours.  He was perhaps the hardest working baseball player of all time.  Forget the steroids-they helped him break a record, but not nearly as much as Bonds' work ethic.  Griffey showed flashes of talent like Bonds, but couldn't sustain, for whatever the reason.  I think it was partially due to really bad luck.

What makes Bonds the best hitter in baseball was his eye, not his HR total.  His OBP was ridiculous, and his offensive numbers were always dampened by the # of Walks he got.  Also, Griffey got pitched to a ton more than Bonds did.  Especially in his peak years in Seattle when he had Jay Buhner and Edgar Martinez, among others, batting behind him.  The best offensive player who played with Bonds on the GIants was Jeff Kent or Rich Aurilia, and both of those only had one good offensive year each. 
I'd rather be in Griffey's shoes than Bonds.  At least Griffey's son won't have to deal with the biting criticism of his father's choices!

And ... there is a real world out there.  Not everyone is going to choose to stay out of it as much as Bonds has just to get their name 'higher' in a record book they're already in!

I see Griffey as being kind of the Barry Sanders of baseball.  Barry, with almost no argument against from the peanut galleries, could've been the greatest of all time.  What if neither of the two guys wanted to be that guy?  What if they didn't want to be the #1?  There's a lot of publicity and media that come with that.  By being in the position they're in, they won't have to deal with press for the remainder of their lives ... they can lead normal lives! 

I know that's what I'd want.

6/11/08
2

Look Griffey didn't cheat us, he gave all he could and that is all you can ask. As for Bonds, I can't take away from what he achieved even with the use of PED's, and he did achieve quite a bit even before the PED's, but Barry had a choice about taking these substances. Now he has to live with the repercussions of those choices.


6/11/08
0
There's no denying that Griffey put it all out on the line every time he stepped on the field. But it was in the weight room and the video room where I think he slacked off. I could be wrong, but I know at least earlier in his career, he paid little to no attention to scouting reports, and he was never known for having an excellent workout regimen. That can take a toll on someone's career over the years.

6/11/08
1
RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
I'd rather be in Griffey's shoes than Bonds.  At least Griffey's son won't have to deal with the biting criticism of his father's choices!

And ... there is a real world out there.  Not everyone is going to choose to stay out of it as much as Bonds has just to get their name 'higher' in a record book they're already in!

I see Griffey as being kind of the Barry Sanders of baseball.  Barry, with almost no argument against from the peanut galleries, could've been the greatest of all time.  What if neither of the two guys wanted to be that guy?  What if they didn't want to be the #1?  There's a lot of publicity and media that come with that.  By being in the position they're in, they won't have to deal with press for the remainder of their lives ... they can lead normal lives! 

I know that's what I'd want.
Griffey's son also won't have to worry about what damage his father did to himself or when those effects might start to show themselves because of what his father put in his body.

6/11/08
0
(Edited by JKB37)

6/11/08
0
Pat wrote:
There's no denying that Griffey put it all out on the line every time he stepped on the field. But it was in the weight room and the video room where I think he slacked off. I could be wrong, but I know at least earlier in his career, he paid little to no attention to scouting reports, and he was never known for having an excellent workout regimen. That can take a toll on someone's career over the years.
Amen Brother!

6/11/08
0
spankyc14 wrote:
Bonds got up at 6 am every morning, went to the track to run for 2 hours, came home, ate breakfast, and then went to the gym for 4 hours.  He was perhaps the hardest working baseball player of all time.  Forget the steroids-they helped him break a record, but not nearly as much as Bonds' work ethic.  Griffey showed flashes of talent like Bonds, but couldn't sustain, for whatever the reason.  I think it was partially due to really bad luck.

What makes Bonds the best hitter in baseball was his eye, not his HR total.  His OBP was ridiculous, and his offensive numbers were always dampened by the # of Walks he got.  Also, Griffey got pitched to a ton more than Bonds did.  Especially in his peak years in Seattle when he had Jay Buhner and Edgar Martinez, among others, batting behind him.  The best offensive player who played with Bonds on the GIants was Jeff Kent or Rich Aurilia, and both of those only had one good offensive year each. 
Sorry, but i will disagree with you on Bonds. His numbers didnt start looking really good till he started taking steriods. Look at him as a rookie compared to his later years. You can definitley see the difference. I personally dont know any people that increase their size that much ridiculousy when they age. Athlete or non athlete. Griffey was a talented athlete and didnt have to cheat to get his numbers that will always rank higher in my book. I am sick of the athletes and coaches that are resorting to cheating to win games and are just basically bad people . Look at Bonds, Vick, Bryant and even coach Belichick. It saddens me terribly to see the way some athletes are cheating and do not care. I will alway give more respect to the older players who played pre steroids ball. What about the good hard working athletes like Nolan Ryan, Emmitt Smith, Bill Russell and a host of other exceptional athletes that trained hard and never had to use steroids to set thier records.

6/11/08
1
kevin23864 wrote:
Sorry, but i will disagree with you on Bonds. His numbers didnt start looking really good till he started taking steriods. Look at him as a rookie compared to his later years. You can definitley see the difference. I personally dont know any people that increase their size that much ridiculousy when they age. Athlete or non athlete. Griffey was a talented athlete and didnt have to cheat to get his numbers that will always rank higher in my book. I am sick of the athletes and coaches that are resorting to cheating to win games and are just basically bad people . Look at Bonds, Vick, Bryant and even coach Belichick. It saddens me terribly to see the way some athletes are cheating and do not care. I will alway give more respect to the older players who played pre steroids ball. What about the good hard working athletes like Nolan Ryan, Emmitt Smith, Bill Russell and a host of other exceptional athletes that trained hard and never had to use steroids to set thier records.
I hear buzzers going off in my head!

"His numbers didn't start looking really good till he ..."  No need to finish that sentence man! 

As a rookie in '86 his numbers were good enough to put him in the voting for rookie of the year (6th), and it only took him until '90 to win the MVP.  In '91 he finished 2nd for MVP, and than he won the MVP again in '92 and '93. 

His numbers did inflate due to steroid usage, but he had "great" numbers before he used!  I have no doubts that he would've been one of the top 20 players of all-time, even if he hadn't used.

6/12/08
0
RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
I hear buzzers going off in my head!

"His numbers didn't start looking really good till he ..."  No need to finish that sentence man! 

As a rookie in '86 his numbers were good enough to put him in the voting for rookie of the year (6th), and it only took him until '90 to win the MVP.  In '91 he finished 2nd for MVP, and than he won the MVP again in '92 and '93. 

His numbers did inflate due to steroid usage, but he had "great" numbers before he used!  I have no doubts that he would've been one of the top 20 players of all-time, even if he hadn't used.
Sorry but you totally missed my point. I didnt say he wasnt a great player. As for the  mvp seasons early in his career only one of those seasons was exceptional and I am talking about by todays standards. Let me put it this way. You used to win MVP  on around 30 to 35 homeruns homeruns. Now you have to hit 45 or better to even be considered.

 
Notify me by email about comments that follow mine.
Preview


BEST OF THE WEB
SHOP
MLB GEAR
Reebok NFL Equipment New E..
$79.95
New Era New York Yankees N..
$33.95
adidas Los Angeles Lakers ..
$24.95
MLB TICKETS
Loading...
MEET OUR FANS
Stacey
Tonique
 more
12,798,192+
ANSWER TODAY'S POLL
 more
PLAY NEVER-ENDING TRIVIA
Utah v. Houston
Detroit v. Chicago
Seattle v. Portland
New York v. LA
 more

TAKE A QUIZ
 more

PREDICT THE SCORE
NFL
NBA
NHL
NCAABB
Soccer
 more
2,555,658+
rhtkulkarni21 joined the Cricket league Fans of India.
Just now!
rhtkulkarni21 joined the Cricket league CricketFans.
Just now!
deep_saxena210 joined the Boxing league Fans of Sam Langford.
Just now!
deep_saxena210 joined the Boxing league Boxing Fans.
Just now!
simiSMAVS joined the Tennis league Fans of Graf, Steffi.
Just now!
simiSMAVS joined the Tennis league Tennis Fans.
Just now!
glocolorlabscbe joined the Cricket league Fans of India.
Just now!
glocolorlabscbe joined the Cricket league CricketFans.
Just now!
sripravallika92 joined the Arena Football league Fans of New York (Arena Football).
Just now!
sripravallika92 joined the Arena Football league Fans of Arena Football.
Just now!
 

Join Today
About FanIQ
Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Contact Us
Report A Bug
Help