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12/5/07
Florida Marlins Potential $10 Million Payroll Embarrassing for MLB
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If any silver lining can be found for Florida Marlins fans, all three of them, it's that hopefully Jeffrey Loria's plans for a $10 million payroll this season will be the impetus for a mandated minimum salary figure.

The picture above is from a Marlins game this September. Sell out crowd. At this rate, Florida would be lucky to see this many fans on opening day.

Should the Miguel Cabrera-Dontrelle Willis trade go through, and it's not completely there yet reports Amy Nelson of the addictive Winter Meeting's Blog, Kevin Gregg would become the highest paid Marlin at 575,000.

I don't know what the appropriate figure would be for a minimum payroll, but something north of $20 seems reasonable. What do you think?
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12/5/07
5
According to this article, last season, the Marlins received $31 million through revenue sharing. Their payroll was $14.9 million. This year they will most likely receive more money and spend less.

The team posted a $43 million profit in 2006, which was the HIGHEST IN THE MAJORS.

That is ridiculous. A team should not be rewarded for putting a bad team on the field. At the very least, teams should be required to spend the majority of any revenue sharing they get to try and improve their team (like what the Rockies have done). That's the whole point of revenue sharing. It's supposed to be for competitive balance, not to make greedy owners rich. Loria is a joke and he needs to be out of baseball.

12/5/07
0
This just adds to the wonderful world of sports in south Florida right now. This will be a short lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng season.

12/5/07
2
Unless there is a salary cap there is no need for a salary floor.  If the Yankees can spend as much money as they want the Marlins should be allowed to spend as little money as they want.  Both are equally embarassing to the sport in my opinion.

12/5/07
0

The sad thing is down here in south Florida the fans only support winners. If you aren't winning then you aren't selling tickets but prices go up anyways. The Canes football program is the only one that sells a majority of its tickets but compared to the late '80s and early '90s it is falling too.

 

 

 


12/5/07
3
They'll never be able to move Kevin Gregg and that bloated salary.

12/5/07
0
(Edited by Tron)

under $10 million is low, but the Marlins have won 2 world series in the past decade. They unloaded everyone after the first one, rebuilt and won another. The team has a history of doing this with positive results. The Marlins are now absolutely loaded with young talent. In a few years, they will be back.

 

Now, if it were the Royals or Brewers that shrunk this low I would be concerned. But I don't think you can mandate a minimum salary number. The Marlins weren't going to be able to pay Cabrera or Willis what the Yankees or Red Sox could if they hit free agency. Why blame them for getting two of the best prospects in the game? So now they have tons of talent in their system. Would you rather them spend $55 million on Gil Meche and have a $30 million pay roll?  They have a system and it works.


12/5/07
0
As a fan base, would you be happy with 5 terrible years followed by a championship? Because if you are, then the Marlins is your team.

12/5/07
0
kantwistaye wrote:
Unless there is a salary cap there is no need for a salary floor.  If the Yankees can spend as much money as they want the Marlins should be allowed to spend as little money as they want.  Both are equally embarassing to the sport in my opinion.
And even if there were a cap, there should be no floor.  Not unless there were provisions for teams to go below it for a certain time frame for rebuilding.

12/5/07
0
Jubanator14 wrote:
As a fan base, would you be happy with 5 terrible years followed by a championship? Because if you are, then the Marlins is your team.

Would you not be happy winning a world series every 5 years? Now, the Marlins have no fan base, which is why no one goes to games. But I remember in the spring of 2004 fans were going to Indians games to see Sizemore, Sabathia, Peralta, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner when they were "up and coming" players. In a good market, the fans would appreciate the young players and still go to the games. Seriously, one world series every 5 years. That's not bad.


12/5/07
1
Tron wrote:

Would you not be happy winning a world series every 5 years? Now, the Marlins have no fan base, which is why no one goes to games. But I remember in the spring of 2004 fans were going to Indians games to see Sizemore, Sabathia, Peralta, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner when they were "up and coming" players. In a good market, the fans would appreciate the young players and still go to the games. Seriously, one world series every 5 years. That's not bad.

I mean think about it. The Marlins came into the MLB in 1992 and won the World Series in 1997. Blew the team up, and won another World Series in 2003. So let me be the first congratulate the 2009 World Series Champion Florida Marlins.

12/5/07
0
(Edited by kappafla211)
Tron wrote:

Would you not be happy winning a world series every 5 years? Now, the Marlins have no fan base, which is why no one goes to games. But I remember in the spring of 2004 fans were going to Indians games to see Sizemore, Sabathia, Peralta, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner when they were "up and coming" players. In a good market, the fans would appreciate the young players and still go to the games. Seriously, one world series every 5 years. That's not bad.

Well then in your scenario they should win the WS again this year with a $10 million salary. Highly doubt that. I used to go to at least 15 to 20 games a year until  their fire sale and I watched the rest on TV. Now I am disgusted to watch them. Simply because of greedy ownership. 

 

To show you how bad Wayne Huizenga is(owner of the ballpark). The Florida Marlins get nothing from the concessions sold during games or from parking. They have to give a % of merchandise sales to him also. That is a hit to any owner.


12/5/07
0
kappafla211 wrote:

Well then in your scenario they should win the WS again this year with a $10 million salary. Highly doubt that. I used to go to at least 15 to 20 games a year until  their fire sale and I watched the rest on TV. Now I am disgusted to watch them. Simply because of greedy ownership. 

 

To show you how bad Wayne Huizenga is(owner of the ballpark). The Florida Marlins get nothing from the concessions sold during games or from parking. They have to give a % of merchandise sales to him also. That is a hit to any owner.

The Marlins waited to blow up the team after their last WS because they were angling for a new stadium. They had a good, young core that, if they got a new stadium that brougth ownership revenue, they would have been able to keep. So, now Marlins fans can look to 2011!

12/5/07
5
According to this article, last season, the Marlins received $31 million through revenue sharing. Their payroll was $14.9 million. This year they will most likely receive more money and spend less.

The team posted a $43 million profit in 2006, which was the HIGHEST IN THE MAJORS.

That is ridiculous. A team should not be rewarded for putting a bad team on the field. At the very least, teams should be required to spend the majority of any revenue sharing they get to try and improve their team (like what the Rockies have done). That's the whole point of revenue sharing. It's supposed to be for competitive balance, not to make greedy owners rich. Loria is a joke and he needs to be out of baseball.

12/5/07
3
(Edited by CHansen)
Jon wrote:
According to this article, last season, the Marlins received $31 million through revenue sharing. Their payroll was $14.9 million. This year they will most likely receive more money and spend less.

The team posted a $43 million profit in 2006, which was the HIGHEST IN THE MAJORS.

That is ridiculous. A team should not be rewarded for putting a bad team on the field. At the very least, teams should be required to spend the majority of any revenue sharing they get to try and improve their team (like what the Rockies have done). That's the whole point of revenue sharing. It's supposed to be for competitive balance, not to make greedy owners rich. Loria is a joke and he needs to be out of baseball.
Yeah, I alluded to this in another thread, but revenue sharing is the main reason there should be a salary floor.  These teams, like the Royals and Marlins, are making huge profits because other teams are sending them checks.  They shouldn't be receiving these checks unless they make good faith efforts to use that money to better themselves, and thus, the league.

Edit to add: The argument could be made that teams like the Royals who recently added another team to their farm system and expanded efforts into South American scouting, are using that money without spending it all on salary.  I think that would be my main opposition to the salary floor, because you can improve your organization without spending it on salary.  The main thing would be to have some sort of enforcement that would force teams to spend the revenue sharing money on good faith efforts to improve the organization, instead of putting the profit in their pockets.

12/5/07
0
Jon wrote:
According to this article, last season, the Marlins received $31 million through revenue sharing. Their payroll was $14.9 million. This year they will most likely receive more money and spend less.

The team posted a $43 million profit in 2006, which was the HIGHEST IN THE MAJORS.

That is ridiculous. A team should not be rewarded for putting a bad team on the field. At the very least, teams should be required to spend the majority of any revenue sharing they get to try and improve their team (like what the Rockies have done). That's the whole point of revenue sharing. It's supposed to be for competitive balance, not to make greedy owners rich. Loria is a joke and he needs to be out of baseball.
You have the MLBPA to thank for that.  The owners wanted to impose a salary cap but the MLBPA will not allow it.  So, they came up with this idiotic Robin Hood style luxury tax.  Which does nothing to help the low revenue teams improve.  What it mostly does is maintains the status quo.  The high revenue teams still get lots of money.  The low revenue teams are still poor, just not as.  Just enough for them to not be able to scream poverty.  But the competitive imbalance remains.

The only way this would change is if the MLBPA suddenly realized what was better for the game, and allowed for a salary cap, along with REAL revenue sharing among local media.  Not just a paltry redistribution of money.  But something to help the low revenue teams actually compete.

12/6/07
0

Either way here in south Florida the fans won't come out. Look at the two World Series years. The fans didn't start coming out or watching on TV(or buying merchandise) until they were in the playoff hunt. South Florida is a crazy place to live. Over half the people I talk to at my job don't know anything about Florida sports (except the Dolphins are 0-12). Some are sports fans but from different areas of the U.S. and world.

 

Loria is a business man he knows what the market is like down here. The Miami Heat won the title 2 seasons ago and now the radio stations can't even give away the tickets to the game.

 

So why would you go out and build a team if you know its title or bust. I think Loria is just making some money until he can sell the team or move it. I think it will be the latter of the two. Because fan base is the key to any successful sports city. New York teams suck from time to time and the fans still come out. Boston, Chicago, and Detroit are just a few others that fans love their sports in their town. South Florida won't ever be like that. Which equals no money spent if not needed.

 

I grew up in the Midwest and to see an area like this that doesn't care about its sports programs........SUCKS and I have been witnessing it for 16 years.


12/6/07
0
kappafla211 wrote:

Either way here in south Florida the fans won't come out. Look at the two World Series years. The fans didn't start coming out or watching on TV(or buying merchandise) until they were in the playoff hunt. South Florida is a crazy place to live. Over half the people I talk to at my job don't know anything about Florida sports (except the Dolphins are 0-12). Some are sports fans but from different areas of the U.S. and world.

 

Loria is a business man he knows what the market is like down here. The Miami Heat won the title 2 seasons ago and now the radio stations can't even give away the tickets to the game.

 

So why would you go out and build a team if you know its title or bust. I think Loria is just making some money until he can sell the team or move it. I think it will be the latter of the two. Because fan base is the key to any successful sports city. New York teams suck from time to time and the fans still come out. Boston, Chicago, and Detroit are just a few others that fans love their sports in their town. South Florida won't ever be like that. Which equals no money spent if not needed.

 

I grew up in the Midwest and to see an area like this that doesn't care about its sports programs........SUCKS and I have been witnessing it for 16 years.

I think whatever Loria touches is doomed anyway.  He owned the Expos before the Marlins remember....

12/6/07
0
ML31 wrote:
I think whatever Loria touches is doomed anyway.  He owned the Expos before the Marlins remember....
One word will explain all of that. GREED

12/9/07
0
lol, why should MLB be embarrassed. The Florida Marlins organization should be embarrassed, not MLB. It just proves that Florida doesnt care about winning anymore. When you have come this low 4 years after you won the World Series, thats all on the organization. Its simple. They have made a series of bad trade in the past years, getting rid of Beckett, Burnett, Willis, Cabrera, Lowell that has NOTHING to do with the MLB screwing them. Why should MLB be embarrassed.

12/11/07
0
kappafla211 wrote:
One word will explain all of that. GREED
Greedy owners.  Greedy Players.   What a combination.

12/11/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
lol, why should MLB be embarrassed. The Florida Marlins organization should be embarrassed, not MLB. It just proves that Florida doesnt care about winning anymore. When you have come this low 4 years after you won the World Series, thats all on the organization. Its simple. They have made a series of bad trade in the past years, getting rid of Beckett, Burnett, Willis, Cabrera, Lowell that has NOTHING to do with the MLB screwing them. Why should MLB be embarrassed.
...anymore..?????  When did the Marlins EVER care about winning?

12/11/07
0
ML31 wrote:
...anymore..?????  When did the Marlins EVER care about winning?
In 03.

12/11/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
In 03.
and 1997.

12/12/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
In 03.
Prove it.  Just because they finished 10 games out, got hot at the right time and were fortunate that Bud Selig expanded the playoffs so 2nd rate teams like the fish could get in the post season does not mean they cared about winning.

12/12/07
0
Jubanator14 wrote:
and 1997.
Just because Hyzinga(sp) acted like George Steinbrenner and threw a ton of money at players doesn't mean they cared about winning.  It means that owner was part of the problem with MLB and not the solution. 

12/12/07
0
(Edited by Jubanator14)
ML31 wrote:
Just because Hyzinga(sp) acted like George Steinbrenner and threw a ton of money at players doesn't mean they cared about winning.  It means that owner was part of the problem with MLB and not the solution. 
Steinbrenner throws tons of money at players because he cares about winning. He isn't spending money just to spend money.

12/12/07
0
Jubanator14 wrote:
Steinbrenner throws tons of money at players because he cares about winning. He isn't spending money just to spend money.
Steinbrenner threw money at the Yankees because he had the money and he could.  That also makes him part of what is wrong with MLB.  Other owners who DON'T throw money at players do not have a lesser desire to win. 

If GB owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, you know for sure that he would not be spending like he does with the Yanks.  Because he couldn't afford to! 

12/12/07
0
(Edited by Jubanator14)
ML31 wrote:
Steinbrenner threw money at the Yankees because he had the money and he could.  That also makes him part of what is wrong with MLB.  Other owners who DON'T throw money at players do not have a lesser desire to win. 

If GB owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, you know for sure that he would not be spending like he does with the Yanks.  Because he couldn't afford to! 
He could afford it if he only owned the Pirates. Steinbrenner wants to win and he spends like it. Jeffrey Loria wants to make a profit. Each has their own business model and since they both own those teams, they can do with their teams what they want.

12/12/07
0
Jubanator14 wrote:
He could afford it if he only owned the Pirates. Steinbrenner wants to win and he spends like it. Jeffrey Loria wants to make a profit. Each has their own business model and since they both own those teams, they can do with their teams what they want.
So, you are saying that McClathy can spend like Steinbrenner does if he wanted to. 

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.....

12/12/07
0
ML31 wrote:
So, you are saying that McClathy can spend like Steinbrenner does if he wanted to. 

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.....
All owners have money, its their choice to spend it..... there isnt ONE poor owner in the MLB. Its that simple. How did they get to own the team anyway? Because they are rich, and can afford pretty much anything. Steinbrennar just has the most passion for getting the best team on the field and winning. Some people hate him for that, I love that he cares about winning. The same can be said about Boston, LA Angels, Chicago, Mets, Mariners, and the Tigers.

12/12/07
0
ML31 wrote:
So, you are saying that McClathy can spend like Steinbrenner does if he wanted to. 

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.....
I didn't say that. You said If GB owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, you know for sure that he would not be spending like he does with the Yanks. So if Steinbrenner owned the Pirates he would spend like he does with the Yankees.

12/12/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
All owners have money, its their choice to spend it..... there isnt ONE poor owner in the MLB. Its that simple. How did they get to own the team anyway? Because they are rich, and can afford pretty much anything. Steinbrennar just has the most passion for getting the best team on the field and winning. Some people hate him for that, I love that he cares about winning. The same can be said about Boston, LA Angels, Chicago, Mets, Mariners, and the Tigers.
That was just straight up ignorant.  I hope you realized their is something in common between those teams you named and the size of their respective cities.

12/12/07
1
(Edited by ML31)
BestofChicago wrote:
All owners have money, its their choice to spend it..... there isnt ONE poor owner in the MLB. Its that simple. How did they get to own the team anyway? Because they are rich, and can afford pretty much anything. Steinbrennar just has the most passion for getting the best team on the field and winning. Some people hate him for that, I love that he cares about winning. The same can be said about Boston, LA Angels, Chicago, Mets, Mariners, and the Tigers.
Of course they have money.  And they didn't get rich giving their money to baseball players.

Not many owners have another business they can use to subsidize their baseball team. 

The fact is, with a few exceptions at both ends of the scale, the owners spend what they can afford.  Period.  Steinbrenner spends because he can.  McClathy doesn't because he can't.  It's as simple as that.
Under the current economic set up, you can't blame owners who don't have money for not spending it.  Those who have overspent what they had have ALL come to regret it later.

This is why MLB needs REAL revenue sharing combined with a cap.  But that is another discussion.

12/12/07
0
Jubanator14 wrote:
I didn't say that. You said If GB owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, you know for sure that he would not be spending like he does with the Yanks. So if Steinbrenner owned the Pirates he would spend like he does with the Yankees.
No, he wouldn't because he wouldn't have the income to do it.  Unless his ship building business netted $200 million in profits every year.

12/12/07
0
(Edited by BestofChicago)
kantwistaye wrote:
That was just straight up ignorant.  I hope you realized their is something in common between those teams you named and the size of their respective cities.
ALRIGHT! So dont blame the organization, nor MLB, blame the fans because there is also something in common with the teams I named, they all have loyal fans. That is something Florida lacks. Cubs sell more season tickets then Florida sells regular tickets on game day.

12/12/07
0
ML31 wrote:
Of course they have money.  And they didn't get rich giving their money to baseball players.

Not many owners have another business they can use to subsidize their baseball team. 

The fact is, with a few exceptions at both ends of the scale, the owners spend what they can afford.  Period.  Steinbrenner spends because he can.  McClathy doesn't because he can't.  It's as simple as that.
Under the current economic set up, you can't blame owners who don't have money for not spending it.  Those who have overspent what they had have ALL come to regret it later.

This is why MLB needs REAL revenue sharing combined with a cap.  But that is another discussion.
ALRIGHT! So dont blame the organization, nor MLB, blame the fans because there is also something in common with the teams I named, they all have loyal fans. That is something Florida lacks. Cubs sell more season tickets then Florida sells regular tickets on game day...

12/12/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
ALRIGHT! So dont blame the organization, nor MLB, blame the fans because there is also something in common with the teams I named, they all have loyal fans. That is something Florida lacks. Cubs sell more season tickets then Florida sells regular tickets on game day.

It has nothing to do with how loyal the fans are either.  Its called being a small market.  The only way to fix it is a salary cap/revenue sharing.  Theres no Green Bay Packers without a salary cap and revenue sharing in the NFL.  Milwaukee had the 12 best attendance this year in what is one the smallest markets in all of baseball.  Boston was 11th (granted, in a bigger park Boston would be higher).  Its all about markets.  The Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers etc will always rake in more money than the Brewers, Royals, Pirates, Twins etc regardless of how sucessful or loyal their fans are.  It all has to do with market.


12/12/07
0
BestofChicago wrote:
ALRIGHT! So dont blame the organization, nor MLB, blame the fans because there is also something in common with the teams I named, they all have loyal fans. That is something Florida lacks. Cubs sell more season tickets then Florida sells regular tickets on game day...
Loyal fans do help.  But that is just gate.  And just as important as fans coming through the turnstile is corporate sponsors.  Teams now days need both.  But the big difference between the haves and have nots of baseball is local TV revenue.  The Yankees get tons and tons and tons of money from their local TV because they are in New York City.  That is a tremendous advantage that the Royals and Pirates of the league don't get.  The problem with MLB economics is that it doesn't take demographics into consideration.  The Royals could do everything right.  Draft wisely.  Make great trades.  Have perfect marketing.  But even if they did all that, they simply cannot equal the money that teams like the Yankees make.  Local TV is more important than loyal fans.  THAT is what needs to be shared in MLB. 

 
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