Greg Maddux and Ken Griffey Jr. Milestones | MLB | Cincinnati Reds

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Griffey and Maddux are 2 baseball players who, no matter how hard you try to hate, you can't help but love the guys. It's already been said about how they got to where they are, and when the good guys do well, they don't get the spotlight that should be on them. Both of them are class acts, both are guaranteed to be in the HOF, and rightfully so. For once, let's see the media give these 2 guys their due instead of Roger this and Barry that.

417 days ago

primo

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I'm actually excited about the latest Griffey rumor... Griffey back to Seattle! Let's sit back and watch how quickly Jr. becomes everyone's favorite player again.

417 days ago

derms33

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Maddux is pretty darn good defensively as well, albeit with limited chances

398 days ago

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(Edited 06/01/08 2:42PM by nlbrenner)

Actually, when he was with Seattle, Griffey had an average of around 1 hr every 3.605 games which is better than A-rod's . Also, if he had played even 130 games per year when he was with the Reds hitting home runs at the same pace (he probably wouldn't be that good b/c of aging but it makes the math easier. This is about 36 HR's per season), he'd be at 722 by now.

Greg Maddux's feat is made all the more amazing to me considering his fastball is anything but overpowering. His accuracy and ability to mix speeds are the reasons he was able to reach this incredible mile stone and why he's still going strong at age 50 or however old he is now :).

398 days ago

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(Edited 06/01/08 12:49PM by ML31)

The thing I find horribly amusing is that many are assuming that Jr never took any kind of supplement whatsoever. And none have any reason to think he didn't except, "the media loved him". Or, "He's a nice guy who obviously enjoys playing the game."

I'm not accusing him of taking stuff, but I'm not letting him off the hook of suspicion either. Especially in an era where probably 80+% of all players were on something. It is completely reasonable to suspect EVERYONE.

398 days ago

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nlbrenner wrote:

Actually, when he was with Seattle, Griffey had an average of around 1 hr every 3.605 games which is better than A-rod's . Also, if he had played even 130 games per year when he was with the Reds hitting home runs at the same pace (he probably wouldn't be that good b/c of aging but it makes the math easier. This is about 36 HR's per season), he'd be at 722 by now.

Greg Maddux's feat is made all the more amazing to me considering his fastball is anything but overpowering. His accuracy and ability to mix speeds are the reasons he was able to reach this incredible mile stone and why he's still going strong at age 50 or however old he is now :).

had an average of around 3.605 hr's per game

I hope that is a typo. That means Jr hit almost 500 homers every 162 games!

398 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

had an average of around 3.605 hr's per game

I hope that is a typo. That means Jr hit almost 500 homers every 162 games!

Yes sry. I meant that he hit 1 HR every 3.605 games. My bad

398 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

The thing I find horribly amusing is that many are assuming that Jr never took any kind of supplement whatsoever. And none have any reason to think he didn't except, "the media loved him". Or, "He's a nice guy who obviously enjoys playing the game."

I'm not accusing him of taking stuff, but I'm not letting him off the hook of suspicion either. Especially in an era where probably 80+% of all players were on something. It is completely reasonable to suspect EVERYONE.

I agree that nobody can be completely removed from suspicion but in junior's case, we have seen the massive increase in body size that Barry Bonds had. Griff has never really looked like a bodybuilder

398 days ago

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(Edited 06/01/08 12:56PM by ML31)
nlbrenner wrote:

I agree that nobody can be completely removed from suspicion but in junior's case, we have seen the massive increase in body size that Barry Bonds had. Griff has never really looked like a bodybuilder

But... Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up. But no one suspected him! Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage. Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is. Every era had their scandals. And every one of them affected the game on the field. This steroid thing is no different. Let's just move on.

398 days ago

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(Edited 06/01/08 2:35PM by nlbrenner)
ML31 wrote:

But... Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up. But no one suspected him! Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage. Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is. Every era had their scandals. And every one of them affected the game on the field. This steroid thing is no different. Let's just move on.

398 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

But... Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up. But no one suspected him! Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage. Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is. Every era had their scandals. And every one of them affected the game on the field. This steroid thing is no different. Let's just move on.

I'm not saying that looking at players is an accurate method for determining whether or not they used steroids, but I think that is why the media and fans suspect some players more than others. If Griffey did steriods (I personally don't think so), he was way less obvious about it than players like Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, etc. who were all jacked. However, I agree with you that we all should just move on from it

398 days ago

Pat

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ML31 wrote:

But... Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up. But no one suspected him! Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage. Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is. Every era had their scandals. And every one of them affected the game on the field. This steroid thing is no different. Let's just move on.

Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?

398 days ago

Pat

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ML31 wrote:

But... Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up. But no one suspected him! Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage. Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is. Every era had their scandals. And every one of them affected the game on the field. This steroid thing is no different. Let's just move on.

Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?

398 days ago

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nlbrenner wrote:

I'm not saying that looking at players is an accurate method for determining whether or not they used steroids, but I think that is why the media and fans suspect some players more than others. If Griffey did steriods (I personally don't think so), he was way less obvious about it than players like Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, etc. who were all jacked. However, I agree with you that we all should just move on from it

I do not know why Frank Thomas is not considered "obvious". Big guy. Big numbers. It all adds up. IF that is what you think steroid use does.

But yeah. What MLB and the fans need to do is learn from this and move on.

398 days ago

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Pat wrote:

Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?

Not so. Weather or not I'm a "Bonds homer" has nothing to do with it. (For the record, I am not a "Bonds homer". I am a Bonds realist.)
Two things can be equally true. Did Bonds take something? Probably. Did most of the players in MLB take something? Probably.

The foolish thing is to assume some players are "clean" only because they smile when they play. I promise you, if Jr were a jerk to the media, he would be getting the Bonds treatment too. Don't deny it. You know it to be so.

398 days ago

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RenegadeLG wrote:

No, because even if he were a dick, he didn't triple in size during the course of his career. Quit wearing your anus as a necklace.

As usual, you are 100% wrong.

He did indeed add plenty of mass over his playing time. Most players do. But closed minded people with an agenda tend to ignore little facts like that.

Yes, I should take the RenegadeLG necklace off. It was a big mistake on my part.

398 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

As usual, you are 100% wrong.

He did indeed add plenty of mass over his playing time. Most players do. But closed minded people with an agenda tend to ignore little facts like that.

Yes, I should take the RenegadeLG necklace off. It was a big mistake on my part.

Griffey has never been a big guy. Bonds on the other hand noticeably got bigger in a very short amount of time. Look at his days in a Pirates uniform. He was skinny as a rail compared to the ox he's become.

398 days ago

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kramer wrote:

Griffey has never been a big guy. Bonds on the other hand noticeably got bigger in a very short amount of time. Look at his days in a Pirates uniform. He was skinny as a rail compared to the ox he's become.

Obviously you haven't seen Griffey play over the last 10 years.

Sure Bonds got bigger. But it was hardly overnight, as many wish was the case.

Jr was immune from accusations because he is likable. Being injured a lot kept him out of the public eye. And Bonds was taking the heat for all the players who used something anyway.

398 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

Obviously you haven't seen Griffey play over the last 10 years.

Sure Bonds got bigger. But it was hardly overnight, as many wish was the case.

Jr was immune from accusations because he is likable. Being injured a lot kept him out of the public eye. And Bonds was taking the heat for all the players who used something anyway.

Umm, he plays for the Reds, who now play the Pirates at least 17 times a year. Wanna try this again? You're trying to make Bonds out to be the victim, and he's not by a long shot. I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.

398 days ago

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kramer wrote:

Umm, he plays for the Reds, who now play the Pirates at least 17 times a year. Wanna try this again? You're trying to make Bonds out to be the victim, and he's not by a long shot. I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.

Bonds? A victim? That's a laugh. All the animosity he gets from fans he brought on himself. He's hardly a victim. If he is, he's a victim of his own attitude. I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.

I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.

Nope. Not mine. That would seem to be the mantra of all the people on the steroid witch hunt.

397 days ago

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Buttons wrote:

If anything, Griffey became overweight and slower over time. His injury recovery time is notriously horrible. His abilities have steadily diminished due to both injury and age. Bonds saw an increase in all things as he got older. The only attribute of Bonds' which got better, that would not be attributed to PED use would be his batting eye. Of course you would try to hijack this thread ML31, to apologize for Bonds.

Hijack? Nothing of the sort. I am right on topic here. Nor am I apologizing for Bonds. Geez.
In my post #37 I mentioned that Bonds is getting everything he deserves due to his arrogance.

All of a sudden claiming that assuming a player never took stuff because he smiled when he played is apologizing for Bonds? Knock that crap off.

Try being realistic here instead of snotty.

Griffey overweight? Maybe. But not fat. Slower? Sure. But Bonds got slower too. The injury rate is hardly evidence of not using any drugs. McGwire and Canseco were both injured all the time. Canseco is an admitted user and McGwire is another suspected user.

397 days ago

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(Edited 06/02/08 3:14PM by ML31)
Buttons wrote:

"All of a sudden claiming that assuming a player never took stuff because he smiled when he played is apologizing for Bonds? Knock that crap off."

This is your best shot huh? Griffey gets a pass because he smiles? Even you have to see how foolish and irresponsible that argument is.

And with that I will heed my own advice and just not respond to you anymore. It is sad when someone is as biased as you, but even sadder when they can't admit it. I feel even worse about myself being baited by the insults of a 42 year-old man.

That is not a shot. Do I need to spoon feed you?

What that comment about smiling means is that Griffey is loved by the media. They get along. He is not aloof. People like that. His nickname is even "Kid". And because of that, he gets certain passes that other players who are not like that don't get. Like not getting accused of taking steroids.
It's as simple as that. It is obvious to anyone who is looking at the steroid issues objectively, rather than trying single out a certain player or two.

Do you now see how foolish it is to assume certain players are NOT taking the stuff and certain players are?

This is not being biased. It is being open minded and realistic. Those who assume Jr is "clean" are the ones who are being biased.

I'm pretty sure that someone as closed minded as yourself won't get any of that, sadly.

You are welcome to respond when you are willing to entertain thoughts that conflict with your own biased viewpoints.

PS: I am wondering where in my post I actually insulted you. Did you take offense to me appropriately labeling your tone as snotty? If so, then sorry. But that is how your post was written. With a snotty arrogance that is unpleasant. On line, or in person.

393 days ago

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RenegadeLG wrote:

LOL @ comparing Griffey to this and this

You mean like

to

?

And this is more realistic because your 'before' Bonds pic is from 1982! I would have used a HS pic of Griff but had a hard time finding one. The difference would be even more pronounced if I had.

Using your logic, he MUST have taken something.

Please....

393 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

You mean like

to

?

And this is more realistic because your 'before' Bonds pic is from 1982! I would have used a HS pic of Griff but had a hard time finding one. The difference would be even more pronounced if I had.

Using your logic, he MUST have taken something.

Please....

Umm, you're aware that guys keep growing until they're about 18-21, right? So finding a picture of Griffey from HS to compare him to now is stupid.

393 days ago

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(Edited 06/06/08 9:03PM by ML31)
kramer wrote:

Umm, you're aware that guys keep growing until they're about 18-21, right? So finding a picture of Griffey from HS to compare him to now is stupid.

And the other guy used a picture of Bonds from High School. Yet you don't find THAT stupid? I smell inconsistencies here...

If I had used a Griffey HS pic, it would further show how similar Bonds and Griffey were.

393 days ago

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(Edited 06/06/08 8:52PM by ML31)
RenegadeLG wrote:

Without quoting ML31's retardedly uncropped pictures and further clogging the thread, Barry was the same size in that picture as he was at ASU and in Pittsburgh, so pick one of those if you want.

Griffey has gotten fat. Any idiot can tell the difference between fat and jacked.

Funny. The pictures ARE cropped. You get a kick out of displaying your ignorance, don't you?

Apart from that... If Bonds was the same size in your teenaged photo and in 1990, you would have used a picture from those days and NOT a teenaged one to better make your point. Unless you don't think things through. (likely)

You think that is fat? And Bonds ISN'T? That is like the anorexic girl looking at her bony thigh and thinking it is nothing but fat!

393 days ago

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ML31 wrote:

And the other guy used a picture of Bonds from High School. Yet you don't find THAT stupid? I smell inconsistencies here...

If I had used a Griffey HS pic, it would further show how similar Bonds and Griffey were.

I'm talking about guys in general. Sure, athletes can keep growing, but Griffey has steadily gained weight over time. Bonds on the other hand blew up like a blimp over the course of only a few years. Your attempts to defend Bonds are making you look worse by the minute, but you just keep on believing what you want to believe. The rest of us will be living in reality. Peace out.

393 days ago

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(Edited 06/06/08 9:07PM by ML31)
kramer wrote:

I'm talking about guys in general. Sure, athletes can keep growing, but Griffey has steadily gained weight over time. Bonds on the other hand blew up like a blimp over the course of only a few years. Your attempts to defend Bonds are making you look worse by the minute, but you just keep on believing what you want to believe. The rest of us will be living in reality. Peace out.

And I thought we were talking about athletes.

Both Griffey and Bonds both gained weight at similar rates over their career. When he moved to the Reds, he REALLY ballooned. But, he was a good guy who smiled when he played. He couldn't possibly be a steroid user!

You keep using that line of thinking while the real world knows the truth. Have fun with that.

PS... I'm not defending Bonds. Nowhere did I claim he was a great guy, doesn't deserve what he is getting, or that he never took anything.
The point here is that assuming some players didn't take the stuff when it is obvious the vast majority of players did is naive at best, foolish at worst.

393 days ago

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derms33 wrote:

Jr. has the sweetest swing ever. Imagine how many records he could have broken had he stayed healthy. A testament to him doing things naturally is unfortunately his ability to injure himself. But Griffey always gives his all and sould be mentioned as one of the greatest ever. Maddux would have a few more wins if the Padres could hit.

Canseco and McGwire were injured all the time too.

They both must have done it all naturally too!

But wait... Canseco is an admitted user and McGwire is an alleged user.

Maybe you need to come up with another reason to assume Griffey was "clean".

393 days ago