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5/12/08
Greg Maddux and Ken Griffey Jr. Milestones
Accomplishing Outstanding Feats the Natural Way Goes Unnoticed
READ MORE:
MLB, Cincinnati Reds, San Diego Padres, Greg Maddux, Ken Griffey Jr.
by CriticalFanatic more posts by author
54
Friday night Greg Maddux accomplished a feat that will likely NEVER be repeated again in Major League baseball history. Ken Griffey Jr. will reach 600 HR's in the next couple weeks (hopefully), a feat that only five other players in Major League history have accomplished, two of which were heavily juiced.

Where are the Sunday Conversations, the live at-bat look-ins, the daily attention to these legends?

What Roger Clemens ate for breakfast or who he slept with last year gets more pub these days that the best pitcher of our era reaching a major milestone. Just because Mad Dog was ho-hum about his 350th, doesn't mean we need to be. Maddux sits at 9th on the all-time wins list but in the modern era he trails only Warren Spahn (363 wins from 1942-1965) and Roger Clemens (354 from 1984-2007).

I respect Greg for not being an attention whore about this, but still, he deserves a parade, a day on the baseball calendar honoring him and every other honor we can hand out.

Ken Griffey Jr. will always hold the title of best home run hitter during my lifetime. It's scary to think how many HR's he may have hit with some assistance to stay healthy like another left handed slugger. You'd hardly know that Junior was just three away from 600 unless you followed the Reds on a daily basis. All three of you.

After Barry Bonds 24/7 last summer, maybe we're exhausted with the hub-bub of the home run. I know I've felt that way. But that doesn't mean we ignore the one player who's gone about it the right way. Griff is the one who deserves live break-ins to every at-bat and all that absurdity.

Like Maddux, he's not asking for it, but for the sake of younger baseball fans learning the game I hope these guys don't go unnoticed. These are the two worth emulating.
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5/12/08
11
Jr. has the sweetest swing ever.  Imagine how many records he could have broken had he stayed healthy.  A testament to him doing things naturally is unfortunately his ability to injure himself. But Griffey always gives his all and sould be mentioned as one of the greatest ever.  Maddux would have a few more wins if the Padres could hit.

5/12/08
11
Jr. has the sweetest swing ever.  Imagine how many records he could have broken had he stayed healthy.  A testament to him doing things naturally is unfortunately his ability to injure himself. But Griffey always gives his all and sould be mentioned as one of the greatest ever.  Maddux would have a few more wins if the Padres could hit.

5/12/08
8

It's an unfortunate thing that these two are suffering the punishment for players of the past decade and their choices(they made) to be in the spot light.

 

I can say that I have followed these stats on web articles this season. But it is a shame to watch good great players not get the news time they deserve from the media.

 

But instead we hear how MLB is screwing Barry Bonds and not letting him play the game he loves destroyed.


5/12/08
1
Agreed on Junior. Didn't always appreciate him - early on I thought he was pretty self absorbed, but that's true of alot of people. He's the genuine article and desrves more attention than he's getting. 

5/12/08
0
I have nothing more to add to this post... you hit the nail on the head.

5/12/08
1

Did you drink too much coffee this morning? 

5/12/08
4

We should celebrate the accomplishments of Griffey Jr. and Maddux.

I think too many fans are looking at them like they are a couple of granola eating, Dead listening, VW Mircobus driving hippies. They did it the way we all clamor to see, hard work, dedication and without the use of PED's. Sure I would have like to seen Griffey stats if he had not gotten hurt, but it happened it does not diminish what he has accomplished. Look Ted Williams is still one of the greats and he gave up 5 1/2 years of his prime to be a pilot.

As for Maddux, the dude just punches the clock. He may have never had more than 25 wins in a season, but each year he seems to keep delivering. Hell he is delivering all the way to upstate New York.

 

If any of this rambling has made sense, please let me know.

5/12/08
1

Thing is about these two, is that we've become too accustomed to seeing them perform consistently that we're no longer impressed. It's more like we knew they would get to this point so there is no excitement.

 

During the mid-'90's Maddux and Griffey dominated the sport with an blitzkreig that has yet to rivaled. They are most likely to be 1st Balloters and still be held in a distinguished light opposed to most of the other players that played in the same time frame.

 

The one thing that I felt that Griffey did to diminsh some of his light was join the NL. I admire that he did it for the honor of his father and his love for his hometown, but he is best suited for the AL in the DH role. Whereas Maddux is still best for the NL.

5/13/08
0
Griffey and Maddux are 2 baseball players who, no matter how hard you try to hate, you can't help but love the guys.  It's already been said about how they got to where they are, and when the good guys do well, they don't get the spotlight that should be on them.  Both of them are class acts, both are guaranteed to be in the HOF, and rightfully so.  For once, let's see the media give these 2 guys their due instead of Roger this and Barry that.

5/13/08
1
I'm actually excited about the latest Griffey rumor... Griffey back to Seattle! Let's sit back and watch how quickly Jr. becomes everyone's favorite player again.

5/13/08
2
Maddux is pretty darn good defensively as well, albeit with limited chances

6/1/08
0
(Edited by nlbrenner)

Actually, when he was with Seattle, Griffey had an average of around 1 hr every 3.605 games which is better than A-rod's . Also, if he had played even 130 games per year when he was with the Reds hitting home runs at the same pace (he probably wouldn't be that good b/c of aging but it makes the math easier. This is about 36 HR's per season), he'd be at 722 by now.

 

Greg Maddux's feat is made all the more amazing to me considering his fastball is anything but overpowering. His accuracy and ability to mix speeds are the reasons he was able to reach this incredible mile stone and why he's still going strong at age 50 or however old he is now :).

 

6/1/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
The thing I find horribly amusing is that many are assuming that Jr never took any kind of supplement whatsoever.  And none have any reason to think he didn't except, "the media loved him".  Or, "He's a nice guy who obviously enjoys playing the game."

I'm not accusing him of taking stuff, but I'm not letting him off the hook of suspicion either.  Especially in an era where probably 80+% of all players were on something.  It is completely reasonable to suspect EVERYONE.

6/1/08
0
nlbrenner wrote:

Actually, when he was with Seattle, Griffey had an average of around 1 hr every 3.605 games which is better than A-rod's . Also, if he had played even 130 games per year when he was with the Reds hitting home runs at the same pace (he probably wouldn't be that good b/c of aging but it makes the math easier. This is about 36 HR's per season), he'd be at 722 by now.

 

Greg Maddux's feat is made all the more amazing to me considering his fastball is anything but overpowering. His accuracy and ability to mix speeds are the reasons he was able to reach this incredible mile stone and why he's still going strong at age 50 or however old he is now :).

 

had an average of around 3.605 hr's per game

I hope that is a typo.  That means Jr hit almost 500 homers every 162 games!

6/1/08
0
ML31 wrote:
had an average of around 3.605 hr's per game

I hope that is a typo.  That means Jr hit almost 500 homers every 162 games!
Yes sry. I meant that he hit 1 HR every 3.605 games. My bad

6/1/08
0
ML31 wrote:
The thing I find horribly amusing is that many are assuming that Jr never took any kind of supplement whatsoever.  And none have any reason to think he didn't except, "the media loved him".  Or, "He's a nice guy who obviously enjoys playing the game."

I'm not accusing him of taking stuff, but I'm not letting him off the hook of suspicion either.  Especially in an era where probably 80+% of all players were on something.  It is completely reasonable to suspect EVERYONE.
I agree that nobody can be completely removed from suspicion but in junior's case, we have seen the massive increase in body size that Barry Bonds had. Griff has never really looked like a bodybuilder

6/1/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
nlbrenner wrote:
I agree that nobody can be completely removed from suspicion but in junior's case, we have seen the massive increase in body size that Barry Bonds had. Griff has never really looked like a bodybuilder
But...  Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up.  But no one suspected him!  Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage.  Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is.  Every era had their scandals.  And every one of them affected the game on the field.  This steroid thing is no different.  Let's just move on.

6/1/08
0
(Edited by nlbrenner)
ML31 wrote:
But...  Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up.  But no one suspected him!  Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage.  Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is.  Every era had their scandals.  And every one of them affected the game on the field.  This steroid thing is no different.  Let's just move on.

6/1/08
0
ML31 wrote:
But...  Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up.  But no one suspected him!  Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage.  Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is.  Every era had their scandals.  And every one of them affected the game on the field.  This steroid thing is no different.  Let's just move on.
I'm not saying that looking at players is an accurate method for determining whether or not they used steroids, but I think that is why the media and fans suspect some players more than others. If Griffey did steriods (I personally don't think so), he was way less obvious about it than players like Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, etc. who were all jacked. However, I agree with you that we all should just move on from it

6/1/08
2
ML31 wrote:
But...  Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up.  But no one suspected him!  Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage.  Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is.  Every era had their scandals.  And every one of them affected the game on the field.  This steroid thing is no different.  Let's just move on.
Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?

6/1/08
1
ML31 wrote:
But...  Neither did most of the players who have tested positive.

You really can't tell who took what just by looking at them.
Frank Thomas ballooned up.  But no one suspected him!  Because he was a nice guy!

I'd rather just admire the players accomplishments and forget about the drug garbage.  Since it is reasonable to suspect everyone... (sigh) The game just can't be enjoyed like that.
It is what it is.  Every era had their scandals.  And every one of them affected the game on the field.  This steroid thing is no different.  Let's just move on.
Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?

6/1/08
0
nlbrenner wrote:
I'm not saying that looking at players is an accurate method for determining whether or not they used steroids, but I think that is why the media and fans suspect some players more than others. If Griffey did steriods (I personally don't think so), he was way less obvious about it than players like Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, etc. who were all jacked. However, I agree with you that we all should just move on from it
I do not know why Frank Thomas is not considered "obvious".  Big guy.  Big numbers.  It all adds up.  IF that is what you think steroid use does.

But yeah.  What MLB and the fans need to do is learn from this and move on.

6/1/08
0
Pat wrote:
Of course you feel this way... you're a Bonds homer. Why wouldn't you rather just forget about the guys who disgraced the game?
Not so.  Weather or not I'm a "Bonds homer" has nothing to do with it.  (For the record, I am not a "Bonds homer".  I am a Bonds realist.)
Two things can be equally true.  Did Bonds take something?  Probably.  Did most of the players in MLB take something?  Probably. 

The foolish thing is to assume some players are "clean" only because they smile when they play.  I promise you, if Jr were a jerk to the media, he would be getting the Bonds treatment too.  Don't deny it.   You know it to be so.

6/1/08
0
As usual, you are 100% wrong.

He did indeed add plenty of mass over his playing time.  Most players do.  But closed minded people with an agenda tend to ignore little facts like that.

Yes, I should take the RenegadeLG necklace off.  It was a big mistake on my part. 

6/1/08
0
ML31 wrote:
As usual, you are 100% wrong.

He did indeed add plenty of mass over his playing time.  Most players do.  But closed minded people with an agenda tend to ignore little facts like that.

Yes, I should take the RenegadeLG necklace off.  It was a big mistake on my part. 
Griffey has never been a big guy.  Bonds on the other hand noticeably got bigger in a very short amount of time.  Look at his days in a Pirates uniform.  He was skinny as a rail compared to the ox he's become.

6/1/08
0
kramer wrote:
Griffey has never been a big guy.  Bonds on the other hand noticeably got bigger in a very short amount of time.  Look at his days in a Pirates uniform.  He was skinny as a rail compared to the ox he's become.
Obviously you haven't seen Griffey play over the last 10 years.

Sure Bonds got bigger.  But it was hardly overnight, as many wish was the case.

Jr was immune from accusations because he is likable.  Being injured a lot kept him out of the public eye.  And Bonds was taking the heat for all the players who used something anyway.

6/1/08
0
ML31 wrote:
Obviously you haven't seen Griffey play over the last 10 years.

Sure Bonds got bigger.  But it was hardly overnight, as many wish was the case.

Jr was immune from accusations because he is likable.  Being injured a lot kept him out of the public eye.  And Bonds was taking the heat for all the players who used something anyway.
Umm, he plays for the Reds, who now play the Pirates at least 17 times a year.  Wanna try this again?  You're trying to make Bonds out to be the victim, and he's not by a long shot.  I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.

6/1/08
0
kramer wrote:
Umm, he plays for the Reds, who now play the Pirates at least 17 times a year.  Wanna try this again?  You're trying to make Bonds out to be the victim, and he's not by a long shot.  I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.
Bonds?  A victim?  That's a laugh.  All the animosity he gets from fans he brought on himself.  He's hardly a victim.  If he is, he's a victim of his own attitude.  I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.

I guess anybody who hits more than 15 HRs a year is on steroids if we go by your theory.

Nope.  Not mine.  That would seem to be the mantra of all the people on the steroid witch hunt.

6/2/08
0
Hijack?  Nothing of the sort.  I am right on topic here.  Nor am I apologizing for Bonds.  Geez.
In my post #37 I mentioned that Bonds is getting everything he deserves due to his arrogance. 

All of a sudden claiming that assuming a player never took stuff because he smiled when he played is apologizing for Bonds?   Knock that crap off.

Try being realistic here instead of snotty.

Griffey overweight?  Maybe.  But not fat.   Slower?  Sure.  But Bonds got slower too.  The injury rate is hardly evidence of not using any drugs.  McGwire and Canseco were both injured all the time.  Canseco is an admitted user and McGwire is another suspected user.

6/2/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
That is not a shot.  Do I need to spoon feed you?

What that comment about smiling means is that Griffey is loved by the media.  They get along.  He is not aloof.  People like that.  His nickname is even "Kid".  And because of that, he gets certain passes that other players who are not like that don't get.  Like not getting accused of taking steroids.
It's as simple as that.  It is obvious to anyone who is looking at the steroid issues objectively, rather than trying single out a certain player or two.

Do you now see how foolish it is to assume certain players are NOT taking the stuff and certain players are?

This is not being biased.  It is being open minded and realistic.  Those who assume Jr is "clean" are the ones who are being biased.

I'm pretty sure that someone as closed minded as yourself won't get any of that, sadly.

You are welcome to respond when you are willing to entertain thoughts that conflict with your own biased viewpoints.

PS:  I am wondering where in my post I actually insulted you.  Did you take offense to me appropriately labeling your tone as snotty?  If so, then sorry.  But that is how your post was written.  With a snotty arrogance that is unpleasant.  On line, or in person.

6/6/08
0
You mean like to ?

And this is more realistic because your 'before' Bonds pic is from 1982!  I would have used a HS pic of Griff but had a hard time finding one.  The difference would be even more pronounced if I had.

Using your logic, he MUST have taken something.

Please....

6/6/08
0
ML31 wrote:
You mean like to ?

And this is more realistic because your 'before' Bonds pic is from 1982!  I would have used a HS pic of Griff but had a hard time finding one.  The difference would be even more pronounced if I had.

Using your logic, he MUST have taken something.

Please....

Umm, you're aware that guys keep growing until they're about 18-21, right?  So finding a picture of Griffey from HS to compare him to now is stupid.

6/6/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
kramer wrote:

Umm, you're aware that guys keep growing until they're about 18-21, right?  So finding a picture of Griffey from HS to compare him to now is stupid.

And the other guy used a picture of Bonds from High School.  Yet you don't find THAT stupid?  I smell inconsistencies here...

If I had used a Griffey HS pic, it would further show how similar Bonds and Griffey were.

6/6/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
Funny.  The pictures ARE cropped.  You get a kick out of displaying your ignorance, don't you?

Apart from that...  If Bonds was the same size in your teenaged photo and in 1990, you would have used a picture from those days and NOT a teenaged one to better make your point.  Unless you don't think things through.  (likely)

You think that is fat?  And Bonds ISN'T?  That is like the anorexic girl looking at her bony thigh and thinking it is nothing but fat!

6/6/08
0
ML31 wrote:
And the other guy used a picture of Bonds from High School.  Yet you don't find THAT stupid?  I smell inconsistencies here...

If I had used a Griffey HS pic, it would further show how similar Bonds and Griffey were.
I'm talking about guys in general.  Sure, athletes can keep growing, but Griffey has steadily gained weight over time.  Bonds on the other hand blew up like a blimp over the course of only a few years.  Your attempts to defend Bonds are making you look worse by the minute, but you just keep on believing what you want to believe.  The rest of us will be living in reality.  Peace out.

6/6/08
0
(Edited by ML31)
kramer wrote:
I'm talking about guys in general.  Sure, athletes can keep growing, but Griffey has steadily gained weight over time.  Bonds on the other hand blew up like a blimp over the course of only a few years.  Your attempts to defend Bonds are making you look worse by the minute, but you just keep on believing what you want to believe.  The rest of us will be living in reality.  Peace out.
And I thought we were talking about athletes.

Both Griffey and Bonds both gained weight at similar rates over their career.  When he moved to the Reds, he REALLY ballooned.  But, he was a good guy who smiled when he played.  He couldn't possibly be a steroid user!

You keep using that line of thinking while the real world knows the truth.  Have fun with that.

PS...  I'm not defending Bonds.  Nowhere did I claim he was a great guy, doesn't deserve what he is getting, or that he never took anything.
The point here is that assuming some players didn't take the stuff when it is obvious the vast majority of players did is naive at best, foolish at worst.

6/6/08
0
derms33 wrote:
Jr. has the sweetest swing ever.  Imagine how many records he could have broken had he stayed healthy.  A testament to him doing things naturally is unfortunately his ability to injure himself. But Griffey always gives his all and sould be mentioned as one of the greatest ever.  Maddux would have a few more wins if the Padres could hit.
Canseco and McGwire were injured all the time too.

They both must have done it all naturally too!

But wait...  Canseco is an admitted user and McGwire is an alleged user. 

Maybe you need to come up with another reason to assume Griffey was "clean".

6/6/08
0
Its not my opinion.  It's the opinion of the guy who wrote the message.  I was simply pointing out an inconsistency.

Not sure why you feel you need to share a vague comment regarding your inbox...  But then, you have shown yourself to be very self centered.  Perhaps you feel you are doing readers some kind of weird favor.

 
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