Identical QBs: One A Joke, One A Hero | NFL | New York Giants

2/1/08

2

I like the post, but COMPLETELY disagree that they are identical QBs. Eli Manning is far more accurate, and has improved throughout his career, slowly learning to limit his turnovers and capable of making big throws in pressure moments.

The reason they are treated differently leading up to their super bowl is that Eli Manning has played well down the stretch, whereas the Bears won in spite of him.

I will grant you that Rex takes more heat than he should. The OL sucks, no running game this season and he doesn't have Plaxico Burress to throw too. BUT, given the choice of which I'd rather take it wouldn't take more than a nanosecond to choose.

2/1/08

kantwistaye

2

Its interesting that their numbers line up like that, but this is proof that sometimes the numbers do lie. Rex's QB rating was that high only because of his first six games or so. After that he was horrible.

Eli has been progressively improving throughout the playoffs. Check out his game against the Packers again, and you'll see that he made some great throws. He's been able to put the ball on the spot, something he used to not be able to do, and something Grossman never could quite do.

Interesting thoughts though.

2/1/08

CriticalFanatic

1

kantwistaye wrote:

Its interesting that their numbers line up like that, but this is proof that sometimes the numbers do lie. Rex's QB rating was that high only because of his first six games or so. After that he was horrible.

Eli has been progressively improving throughout the playoffs. Check out his game against the Packers again, and you'll see that he made some great throws. He's been able to put the ball on the spot, something he used to not be able to do, and something Grossman never could quite do.

Interesting thoughts though.

Rex had 4 games with sub 36 ratings and the two unspeakable games at 1.6 and 0.00. Eli had two bad games. The thing Rex had for him was that the Bears defense was so insanely good the Bears actually managed to win a few games for him.

2/1/08

TerikaHarifa

0	Don't hold back Bob. Tell us how you really feel.

2/1/08

IlliniBob72

1

CriticalFanatic wrote:

I like the post, but COMPLETELY disagree that they are identical QBs. Eli Manning is far more accurate, and has improved throughout his career, slowly learning to limit his turnovers and capable of making big throws in pressure moments.

The reason they are treated differently leading up to their super bowl is that Eli Manning has played well down the stretch, whereas the Bears won in spite of him.

I will grant you that Rex takes more heat than he should. The OL sucks, no running game this season and he doesn't have Plaxico Burress to throw too. BUT, given the choice of which I'd rather take it wouldn't take more than a nanosecond to choose.

I'm sorry, but what is this based on? It certainly isn't the numbers. If anything, Eli has regressed. His interceptions the last three regular seasons is 17, 18, and 20. So, he is slowly INCREASING his turnovers. His passing ratings the last three seasons are 75.9, 77.0, and 73.9. This is actually his worst season of his first three full seasons. Eli is FAR more accurate? 1.5% completion difference doesn't support that at all.

Also, Eli didn't play well down the stretch. Yes, he had a good game against the Patriots, but he had a passer rating over 80 in only 2 of the Giants' last 6 games, including a stellar 18 for 53 effort in a loss to the Redskins. Grossman in 2006 surpassed 80 in 3 of the Bears' last 4 games.

What you are saying actually supports my case. Somehow, you believe that Eli is far and away superior to Rex Grossman, but the stats don't lie and they say IT'S JUST NOT TRUE!!! Again, Grossman is no Joe Namath, but this lead-up to the Super Bowl has people believing that Eli Manning is the next coming of Peyton Manning.

2/1/08

CriticalFanatic

1

IlliniBob72 wrote:

I'm sorry, but what is this based on? It certainly isn't the numbers. If anything, Eli has regressed. His interceptions the last three regular seasons is 17, 18, and 20. So, he is slowly INCREASING his turnovers. His passing ratings the last three seasons are 75.9, 77.0, and 73.9. This is actually his worst season of his first three full seasons. Eli is FAR more accurate? 1.5% completion difference doesn't support that at all.

Also, Eli didn't play well down the stretch. Yes, he had a good game against the Patriots, but he had a passer rating over 80 in only 2 of the Giants' last 6 games, including a stellar 18 for 53 effort in a loss to the Redskins. Grossman in 2006 surpassed 80 in 3 of the Bears' last 4 games.

What you are saying actually supports my case. Somehow, you believe that Eli is far and away superior to Rex Grossman, but the stats don't lie and they say IT'S JUST NOT TRUE!!! Again, Grossman is no Joe Namath, but this lead-up to the Super Bowl has people believing that Eli Manning is the next coming of Peyton Manning.

You lost me at "if anything he's regressed."

Have you been watching him play? Talk to any GM in the league and they'll tell you those that judge by statistics are fools. You're not one of those, I just think you're trying hard to defend a QB that isn't any good.

Manning has grown tremendously in terms of reading defenses. Grossman has yet to show those instincts. Interceptions are often situational ... I feel like I've watching 80% of the Giants season (damn Fox) and of course, I watched every Bears game last year. For my money, they aren't even in the same ballpark. Eli had his two worst games in unsatisfactory weather situations (no excuse, but you don't see that in the stat sheet).

The Giants are in the Super Bowl because Eli Manning has progressed tremendously down the stretch -- he didn't have an MVP season, of course -- but it's how he's finished that's been completely different than Rex.

Rex had a 0.00 rating last year in Week 17. Eli nearly beat the best team of all time.

In the Bears first playoff game, if it wasn't for Matt Hasselbeck's stupid interception, the Bears wouldn't have advanced. Once again, defense. Bears game against the Saints was an utter defense domination. I do credit Rex for not fumbling every snap, but you play well when you have that much comfort in your defense getting you field position and a lead.

We know how Rex performed in the Super Bowl.

Eli hasn't thrown an interception in three playoff games ... all on the road, mind you. Eli has won 10 straight road games as a QB.

Moreover, Eli has turned into a confident quarterback. Rex always looked shaky.

2/1/08

IlliniBob72

0

CriticalFanatic wrote:

You lost me at "if anything he's regressed."

Have you been watching him play? Talk to any GM in the league and they'll tell you those that judge by statistics are fools. You're not one of those, I just think you're trying hard to defend a QB that isn't any good.

Manning has grown tremendously in terms of reading defenses. Grossman has yet to show those instincts. Interceptions are often situational ... I feel like I've watching 80% of the Giants season (damn Fox) and of course, I watched every Bears game last year. For my money, they aren't even in the same ballpark. Eli had his two worst games in unsatisfactory weather situations (no excuse, but you don't see that in the stat sheet).

The Giants are in the Super Bowl because Eli Manning has progressed tremendously down the stretch -- he didn't have an MVP season, of course -- but it's how he's finished that's been completely different than Rex.

Rex had a 0.00 rating last year in Week 17. Eli nearly beat the best team of all time.

In the Bears first playoff game, if it wasn't for Matt Hasselbeck's stupid interception, the Bears wouldn't have advanced. Once again, defense. Bears game against the Saints was an utter defense domination. I do credit Rex for not fumbling every snap, but you play well when you have that much comfort in your defense getting you field position and a lead.

We know how Rex performed in the Super Bowl.

Eli hasn't thrown an interception in three playoff games ... all on the road, mind you. Eli has won 10 straight road games as a QB.

Moreover, Eli has turned into a confident quarterback. Rex always looked shaky.

My position really isn't pro-Rex as a QB. I felt last year that he was given an incredibly hard time for a QB in his first full season playing. Rex threw for 282 yards in that Seattle game you are crediting the defense for, with some big throws on the game winning drive.

OK, well if Eli didn't throw 20 picks because of poor defense reading, what is it then? Poor accuracy? Poor decision-making? Or is he the unluckiest QB in the league? Because, as you likely know, his 20 INTs tied for the league lead.

Eli has had a nice 4 game stretch. If that is what all the Eli-love derives from, that's fine. I think a case can be made though that neither QB was treated the way they deserved though.

2/1/08

CriticalFanatic

2

(Edited by CriticalFanatic)
IlliniBob72 wrote:

My position really isn't pro-Rex as a QB. I felt last year that he was given an incredibly hard time for a QB in his first full season playing. Rex threw for 282 yards in that Seattle game you are crediting the defense for, with some big throws on the game winning drive.

OK, well if Eli didn't throw 20 picks because of poor defense reading, what is it then? Poor accuracy? Poor decision-making? Or is he the unluckiest QB in the league? Because, as you likely know, his 20 INTs tied for the league lead.

Eli has had a nice 4 game stretch. If that is what all the Eli-love derives from, that's fine. I think a case can be made though that neither QB was treated the way they deserved though.

To be fair, Eli has been THOROUGHLY bashed throughout his career. None of those comments were included here. Insulted just as personally and probably more than Rex. You're taking the last three games of comments into account. I'd argue Eli was treated more unfairly in his first two full seasons of playing than Rex. Also, Sexy was given some solid pub leading into the Super Bowl last year as I recall. But when you throw up a rating of 0.00 and 1.6 skepticism does arise.

Eli deserves some praise for nearly beating the best.team.ever and then winning three straight road playoff games. That's an astounding feat.

Ultimately, these two will be judged on how they perform Sunday.

2/1/08

IlliniBob72

0

CriticalFanatic wrote:

To be fair, Eli has been THOROUGHLY bashed throughout his career. None of those comments were included here. Insulted just as personally and probably more than Rex. You're taking the last three games of comments into account. I'd argue Eli was treated more unfairly in his first two full seasons of playing than Rex. Also, Sexy was given some solid pub leading into the Super Bowl last year as I recall. But when you throw up a rating of 0.00 and 1.6 skepticism does arise.

Eli deserves some praise for nearly beating the best.team.ever and then winning three straight road playoff games. That's an astounding feat.

Ultimately, these two will be judged on how they perform Sunday.

You're probably right. I'm not privvy to as much Eli discussion as I am Rex talk, but if that is right, the media sure has forgiven and forgotten quickly!

I just think Rex has been unfairly turned into a punchline. It's taken Eli four seasons to put it together, and even then only at the end of the season. Grossman, in his first full season, put up the same numbers and led a team to a 13-3 record and the SB, and became a codeword for poor QB play. Hardly seems fair.

2/1/08

CriticalFanatic

0

IlliniBob72 wrote:

You're probably right. I'm not privvy to as much Eli discussion as I am Rex talk, but if that is right, the media sure has forgiven and forgotten quickly!

I just think Rex has been unfairly turned into a punchline. It's taken Eli four seasons to put it together, and even then only at the end of the season. Grossman, in his first full season, put up the same numbers and led a team to a 13-3 record and the SB, and became a codeword for poor QB play. Hardly seems fair.

I think the core of our disagreement revolves around the term "led."

2/1/08

IlliniBob72

0

CriticalFanatic wrote:

I think the core of our disagreement revolves around the term "led."

I suppose that's true. Grossman led the team as much as Orton did the season before, I guess. I just question how big a role Eli had on the Giants' season, with the team 21st in passing yards and leading the league in INTs. Teams don't get on the shoulders of a QB with a 73.9 rating and throwing nearly as many picks as TDs.

2/1/08

JewelOfSong

4

IlliniBob72 wrote:

You're probably right. I'm not privvy to as much Eli discussion as I am Rex talk, but if that is right, the media sure has forgiven and forgotten quickly!

I just think Rex has been unfairly turned into a punchline. It's taken Eli four seasons to put it together, and even then only at the end of the season. Grossman, in his first full season, put up the same numbers and led a team to a 13-3 record and the SB, and became a codeword for poor QB play. Hardly seems fair.

What it comes down to is the media is fickle. Right now, New York loves Manning b/c the Giants are in the Super Bowl and he has played well in his last 4 games, including 3 playoff wins on the road. But all season long, up until they beat the Bucs in the first round, Eli would get ripped by the NY media constantly. It was insane.

Just one example... all season long, he would get criticized for not showing enough emotion, saying that his body language showed he didn't care... now they all praise him, saying his calm demeanor is the key to his leadership ability.

I am not singing the praises of Eli Manning. Honestly, I was beginning to wonder during that Viking game if he would ever put it all together. I am extremely pleased with what I have seen from him (and the rest of the team) the last 4 and 1/2 games. But it's too small a sample size to start comparing him to Phil Simms. I want to see what he does next season before I anoint him as the Peyton Manning. But the media needs a story for the here and now, whether it's reasonable or not.

2/2/08

100%InjuryRate

1	Rex, best QB EVAR.

2/4/08

CriticalFanatic

1	I hate being this guy, but just wanted to make sure the argument was over ... for now.

2/4/08

IlliniBob72

0	CriticalFanatic wrote: I hate being this guy, but just wanted to make sure the argument was over ... for now. What argument was that? That Manning and Grossman had nearly identical numbers for their Super Bowl seasons and were treated differently by the media the weeks prior to the Super Bowl? Nothing that happened yesterday changed that.