Jim Boeheim wins No.900

The most overrated coach in college basketball history wins No.900

12/18/12 in NCAABB   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

Dec 17, 2012; Syracuse, NY, USA; Syracuse Orange head coach Jim Boeheim is presented a plaque by forward James Southerland (center with masque) and Syracuse Orange Director of Athletics Dr. Daryl Gross (right) during a ceremony following the game against the Detroit Titans at the Carrier Dome to recognize his 900th career win. Mandatory Credit: Rich Barnes-USA TODAY SportsSyracuse Head Coach Jim Boeheim achieved Monday night what only 2 other head coaches in the history of division I college basketball had done previously--win 900 career games. The other two coaches are true legends of the game. When I think of Bob Knight and Mike Krzyzewski (I copied and pasted his last name--no idea how to spell it) I think of excellence and National Championships.

As a North Carolina Tar Heels fan, I would be blind to ignore that Dean Smith may have been the most overrated coach in college basketball history. He had some of the best players every year, but consistently failed in the final four or championship game. In fact, you can make a case that if not for Fred Brown passing the ball to James Worthy (not his teammate for you young folks) in the '82 championship game, or Chris Webber having a mental meltdown in the '93 National Championship game, Smith may have never won the big game.

Now when you look at Jim Boeheim, in 34 years at Syracuse, he has led the Orange to ONLY 3 final four appearances and ONE National Championship. And let's be honest, he had to go out and recruit an obvious one-and-done player in Carmelo Anthony to get that lone title. Only one elite appearance since and even missed the tournament in back-to-back years.

I am so sick of hearing from the Cuse alumni about how great a coach this man is. Please look at how mediocre his non conference schedule is every year. They want to put him on a pedestal for winning 20 games every year. Not too hard to do when you already have 12 or 13 wins against inferior opponents before entering Big East play.

It is official: Dean Smith is no longer the most overrated coach in the history of college basketball--Jim Boeheim is.

And before you defend him, how many coaches would you rather have before you get to Boeheim?

Congrats on the 900 wins and ONE National Championship.
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1/17/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

orangemen90 wrote:
You use the word overrated too easy and often,,, this column is overrated!!!

I used the word twice in the column genius. I guess reading isn't key at the Cuse. After all, we know Fab Melo couldn't read. How about James Southerland? All of a sudden ineligible???? Kris Joesph etc. I could go on and on. Nice program.

1/17/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

orangemen90 wrote:
You use the word overrated too easy and often,,, this column is overrated!!!

And keep scheduling cupcakes at home before conference play.

1/17/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

orangemen90 wrote:
You use the word overrated too easy and often,,, this column is overrated!!!

No surprise coming from alumni. I work with people like you who drink the kool-aid. Keep drinking and continue watching them fall short of the National Championship.

1/14/13   |   orangemen90   |   5785 respect

You use the word overrated too easy and often,,, this column is overrated!!!

12/30/12   |   sandishepard   |   70 respect

Congrats to Jim Boeheim.  You've worked long and hard for this victory.  You've had to put up with a lot of histronics/attitudes from players and others.  Why people can't be happy for you and your accomplishments is beyond me.  Enjoy your moment in the sun.  You aren't going to be able to please every body all of the time, it's just a fact of life.  Tell your family THANK YOU for putting up with your career choice, it probably wasn't easy for them either.   

12/20/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

2000bigb wrote:
Brad Stevens had a lottery pick in Gordon Hayword and another NBA player in Shelvin Mack.  How did Butler do last season without that NBA talent?  They missed the NCAA tournament.

Florida was loaded.  NBA talent all over in Noah, Brewster and Al Horford for both years.  What has Donovan done since?  Did you know Boeheim is 3-0 against Donovan since then?  Boeheim  is 5-1 against Izzo to.

Also as an FYI, Donovan and Izzo have been coaching for nearly 20 years now.  Izzo only has 1 title.  Boeheim would have had a title within 10 years of taking the Syracuse job had Smart's shot rimmed out.  That's how close he was.

Didn't Butler just knock off previously top ranked Indiana? Butler had a down year but weren't terrible. Remember, their league normally gets one team.

Donovan lost his players to the next level, took a hit and then has been to back-to-back elite 8s, and is ranked top 10 this year.  And no matter what talent level he had, he WON back-to-back National titles. You can't possibly dismiss that.

12/20/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

2000bigb wrote:
Mort, you listed Roy Williams as having 2 titles.  Jim Boehiem and Syracuse beat Roy Williams and a heavily favored Kansas team for the title in 2003.  Boeheim also beat Roy Williams and a heavily favored Kansas in 1996 on the way to the National Championship vs. Kentucky.  Boeheim and Syracuse destroyed UNC in Madison Square Garden just a couple years ago.

Fact is, Roy Williams had the luxury of getting the best players in the country at Kansas and UNC.  He's the ultimate roll the ball out coach.  Boeheim's Syracuse team that crushed UNC didn't have a single kid rated in the Top 100, and UNC had about 7 McDonald's AA's on it.  UNC had a loaded team last year and didn't make the Final Four.  How is UNC doing this season?

BTW...didn't Jim Boeheim and Syracuse beat UNC and Dean Smith to get to that 1987 title game?

When you send as many players to the next level as UNC does, it may take time to replenish. Not all the freshman he recruits will pick up the college game that fast. Look at how Kentucky is doing this year as well.

12/20/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

2000bigb wrote:
"And let's be honest, he had to go out and recruit an obvious one-and-done player in Carmelo Anthony to get that lone title."
 
Dean Smith needed Michael Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins to win his first title-a game they nearly lost.   Name a team that won it all without a great player. You need talent to win. That's certainly not a knock on Boeheim.
 
And before you go slinging accusations about week non-conference scheduling, keep in mind Syracuse has beaten North Carolina (by a lot), Kansas (in KC), Florida 3 times, Memphis (once in Memphis)  twice, Stanford, Cal, Michigan, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and San Diego State (in San Diego) in the last 4 years.  That's on top of beating Wisconsin, Kansas State, and Gonzaga in the NCAA's.

That non-conference argument does not hunt.  Syracuse plays Georgetown, Pitt, Louisville, Connecticut, Marquette, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, and Villanova.  They don't get to feast on Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami and Maryland every night.

Please read what I said about Dean Smith.

12/20/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

2000bigb wrote:
Quick question.  How far did UNC go last year with 4 NBA lottery picks?  Did they get to the Final Four?

You do know Kendall Marshall broke his hand and missed the Kansas game? And I killed Harrison Barnes in that Regional Semifinal for not being more aggressive. Listen, I am very critical of my own teams. I have been killing Roy for a few years now due to his inability to recruit a legit perimeter threat. Hasn't had one since Wayne Ellington.

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

"And let's be honest, he had to go out and recruit an obvious one-and-done player in Carmelo Anthony to get that lone title."

 
Dean Smith needed Michael Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins to win his first title-a game they nearly lost.   Name a team that won it all without a great player. You need talent to win. That's certainly not a knock on Boeheim.
 
And before you go slinging accusations about week non-conference scheduling, keep in mind Syracuse has beaten North Carolina (by a lot), Kansas (in KC), Florida 3 times, Memphis (once in Memphis)  twice, Stanford, Cal, Michigan, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and San Diego State (in San Diego) in the last 4 years.  That's on top of beating Wisconsin, Kansas State, and Gonzaga in the NCAA's.

That non-conference argument does not hunt.  Syracuse plays Georgetown, Pitt, Louisville, Connecticut, Marquette, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, and Villanova.  They don't get to feast on Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami and Maryland every night.

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

Quick question.  How far did UNC go last year with 4 NBA lottery picks?  Did they get to the Final Four?

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

MortonsLaw wrote:
With your infinite wisdom, please tell me why Boeheim is so great.

  • 900 wins
  • 34 20 win seasons
  • 3 National Title games
  • 1 title
  • 5 Big East Tournament titles
  • 9 Big East Regular Season titles
  • 402 Big East wins
  • 47 Big East Tournament wins
  • 75% overall winning percentage
  • patented 2-3 zone
  • amazing consistency-never a losing season
  • missed the NCAA tournament only 6 times in 36 years
Let's face it, Boeheim is getting better as he gets older.  Syracuse was 34-3 last year and was likely  a Fab Melo away from another Final 4.  They are currently #3 in the nation and look to be title contender again.  He's won 900 games without the top-tier recruits the bluebloods get at UNC, Duke, and Kentucky.  In fact, Syracuse went 10 years without getting a McDonald's AA in 90's.  It's really quite amazing what he's done at Syracuse.  He's done more with much less.

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

MortonsLaw wrote:
Jim Calhoun and Roy Williams all have more than one National Championship in less years.  Tom Izzo has been to 6 final fours. And obviously your inability to comprehend what overrated means prevents me from reaching your pea brain. Isn't it about winning it all? Should he have more than 3 final four appearances in 34 years? I give up, you know more than I do. I should quit my day job working in sports tv, because you know more than me. I should destroy my Emmy nomination because it was a fluke. I am a fraud and you are the king of sports knowledge. Congrats.
(Edited by 2000bigb)

Mort, you listed Roy Williams as having 2 titles.  Jim Boehiem and Syracuse beat Roy Williams and a heavily favored Kansas team for the title in 2003.  Boeheim also beat Roy Williams and a heavily favored Kansas in 1996 on the way to the National Championship vs. Kentucky.  Boeheim and Syracuse destroyed UNC in Madison Square Garden just a couple years ago.

Fact is, Roy Williams had the luxury of getting the best players in the country at Kansas and UNC.  He's the ultimate roll the ball out coach.  Boeheim's Syracuse team that crushed UNC didn't have a single kid rated in the Top 100, and UNC had about 7 McDonald's AA's on it.  UNC had a loaded team last year and didn't make the Final Four.  How is UNC doing this season?

BTW...didn't Jim Boeheim and Syracuse beat UNC and Dean Smith to get to that 1987 title game?

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

Trokspot wrote:
Maybe some tough love here, but you do make some strong arguments.  I do think that you could argue that simply his longevity is impressive...though they don't have a lot of Championships under him, he has consistently produced winning teams for a long time.

I agree with this.  Boeheim is 100-16 since his 800th win 3 years ago.  Name the coaches that have won more games in the last 3 years.  He's won the Big East, by far the toughest conference, easily twice in the last 3 years.  Syracuse was ranked #1 in 2009 and last year for large parts of the seasons.  Perhaps Boeheim is one injured starting center in 2009 and one Fab Melo away from 2 more titles or FF appearances.

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

MortonsLaw wrote:
I initially had Pitino on the list. My memory failed me that he has only one as well. Based on the talent he has had, he definitely should have more than one.
(Edited by 2000bigb)

If you're going by just championships,  then just about every great coach is overrated, right?

How many coaches have at least 2 titles in the modern era?  5?  How many active coaches?  3?  

Rick Pitino has 2 Final Fours and 2 Elite 8's in the last 9 years.  Is he overrated?  It sounds like you don't think Tom Izzo is overrated because he's been to 6 Final Four's and 1 title.  Pitino also has 6 Final Fours and 1 title, but he did it at 3 different schools, including Providence.  

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

MortonsLaw wrote:
Brad Stevens led Butler to back-to-back championship games with far less talent than Boeheim's ever had. And how about what Billy Donovan has done at Florida in less years? Two National championships and 3 final 4 appearances in the past decade, not in 34 years.

Brad Stevens had a lottery pick in Gordon Hayword and another NBA player in Shelvin Mack.  How did Butler do last season without that NBA talent?  They missed the NCAA tournament.

Florida was loaded.  NBA talent all over in Noah, Brewster and Al Horford for both years.  What has Donovan done since?  Did you know Boeheim is 3-0 against Donovan since then?  Boeheim  is 5-1 against Izzo to.

Also as an FYI, Donovan and Izzo have been coaching for nearly 20 years now.  Izzo only has 1 title.  Boeheim would have had a title within 10 years of taking the Syracuse job had Smart's shot rimmed out.  That's how close he was.

12/20/12   |   2000bigb

Coach Boeheim won 900 games, played for a national title 3 times (name all the coaches that have done that), and it currently #3 in the nation.  Boeheim never got the recruits that UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Kansas got.  He's underrated, if anything.

12/19/12   |   huskerdoug2009   |   2790 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
With your infinite wisdom, please tell me why Boeheim is so great.

Sir, I haven't lived with my mom since I was 18 so if you want to talk sports talk sports, if you want to make things personal then run your mouth to someone who cares.  I never said Boeheim was great, I simply said your opinion, that he was overrated was more than a stretch.  I also responded to your comment about Dean Smith as now #2 overrated.  I see it says your a Tarheel fan, correct or not?  If so why is Dean Smith overrated?  Jim Boeheim has been head coach at Syracuse for 34 years, Smith coached North Carolina for roughly 36 years which makes both men 1st ballot hall of famers.  You also don't stay that long at universities by simply playing mediocre competion.  Both have also been thought of enough by their peers that they have been either an assistant or head coach of USA basketball during olympic competition.

12/19/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
Jim Calhoun and Roy Williams all have more than one National Championship in less years.  Tom Izzo has been to 6 final fours. And obviously your inability to comprehend what overrated means prevents me from reaching your pea brain. Isn't it about winning it all? Should he have more than 3 final four appearances in 34 years? I give up, you know more than I do. I should quit my day job working in sports tv, because you know more than me. I should destroy my Emmy nomination because it was a fluke. I am a fraud and you are the king of sports knowledge. Congrats.

What is genious? Learn how to spell before you address me again.

12/19/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

huskerdoug2009 wrote:
So what is your definition of overrated Genious?  National Championships?  So by that definition, Dan Marino is overrated in the NFL, Ernie Banks must be overrated in baseball, and Stockton/Malone must be in the NBA right? 

Sports tv huh?  So once again you live by the same logic as the employees at ESPN then?  Because you work in sports tv, then your an expert and the rest of us should bow down and kiss the ground where you walk? 
(Edited by MortonsLaw)

With your infinite wisdom, please tell me why Boeheim is so great.

12/19/12   |   huskerdoug2009   |   2790 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
Jim Calhoun and Roy Williams all have more than one National Championship in less years.  Tom Izzo has been to 6 final fours. And obviously your inability to comprehend what overrated means prevents me from reaching your pea brain. Isn't it about winning it all? Should he have more than 3 final four appearances in 34 years? I give up, you know more than I do. I should quit my day job working in sports tv, because you know more than me. I should destroy my Emmy nomination because it was a fluke. I am a fraud and you are the king of sports knowledge. Congrats.

So what is your definition of overrated Genious?  National Championships?  So by that definition, Dan Marino is overrated in the NFL, Ernie Banks must be overrated in baseball, and Stockton/Malone must be in the NBA right? 

Sports tv huh?  So once again you live by the same logic as the employees at ESPN then?  Because you work in sports tv, then your an expert and the rest of us should bow down and kiss the ground where you walk? 

12/18/12   |   Curly9   |   1 respect

I'm not going to get in a war of words why Mr Boeheim deserves the accolades he gets in winning 900...AND HE DOES DESERVE ANY AND ALL! BUT  do not put Knight in the same category! No matter what Knight did he deserves no recognition he's a despicable human being. We all know about all the atrocities he caused, chair throwing, kicking players etc. the one instance that stands out in my mind was in the NCAA tourney (he lost) and he berated a volunteer. Took the guy to task because he said "Looks as if Coach Knight isn't coming to address the press"...Knight won't after him relentlessly on National TV. Can't get the scene out of my mind...it was idiotic  the guy just put his head down and walk away. Just a pathetic thing to do for a grown man.

12/18/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

Brad Stevens led Butler to back-to-back championship games with far less talent than Boeheim's ever had. And how about what Billy Donovan has done at Florida in less years? Two National championships and 3 final 4 appearances in the past decade, not in 34 years.

12/18/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
Jim Calhoun and Roy Williams all have more than one National Championship in less years.  Tom Izzo has been to 6 final fours. And obviously your inability to comprehend what overrated means prevents me from reaching your pea brain. Isn't it about winning it all? Should he have more than 3 final four appearances in 34 years? I give up, you know more than I do. I should quit my day job working in sports tv, because you know more than me. I should destroy my Emmy nomination because it was a fluke. I am a fraud and you are the king of sports knowledge. Congrats.

I initially had Pitino on the list. My memory failed me that he has only one as well. Based on the talent he has had, he definitely should have more than one.

12/18/12   |   Trokspot   |   65 respect

Maybe some tough love here, but you do make some strong arguments.  I do think that you could argue that simply his longevity is impressive...though they don't have a lot of Championships under him, he has consistently produced winning teams for a long time.

12/18/12   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

huskerdoug2009 wrote:
Let me get this straight, Jim Boeheim is overrated right?  Now he is ahead of Dean Smith(your opinion) as #1 overrated?  Who are you comparing them to?  John Wooden, Coach K and Bob Knight?  Maybe in those cases their a notch below, however if you say Rick Pitino or Calipari I would suggest you look farther into your facts.  Boeheim was a Keith Smart buzzer beater from one National Championship and he lost to Kentucky in 96 for what would be another one.  You think all or even 3/4 of the other coaches win's who have 900 weren't against so called "cupcakes?" 

Sometimes the fan articles on fan iq and the statements that go with them make me wonder if people take their laptops into the bar and then right at closing time, when their "three sheets to the wind" type up their greatest thoughts!
(Edited by MortonsLaw)

Jim Calhoun and Roy Williams all have more than one National Championship in less years.  Tom Izzo has been to 6 final fours. And obviously your inability to comprehend what overrated means prevents me from reaching your pea brain. Isn't it about winning it all? Should he have more than 3 final four appearances in 34 years? I give up, you know more than I do. I should quit my day job working in sports tv, because you know more than me. I should destroy my Emmy nomination because it was a fluke. I am a fraud and you are the king of sports knowledge. Congrats.

12/18/12   |   huskerdoug2009   |   2790 respect

Let me get this straight, Jim Boeheim is overrated right?  Now he is ahead of Dean Smith(your opinion) as #1 overrated?  Who are you comparing them to?  John Wooden, Coach K and Bob Knight?  Maybe in those cases their a notch below, however if you say Rick Pitino or Calipari I would suggest you look farther into your facts.  Boeheim was a Keith Smart buzzer beater from one National Championship and he lost to Kentucky in 96 for what would be another one.  You think all or even 3/4 of the other coaches win's who have 900 weren't against so called "cupcakes?" 

Sometimes the fan articles on fan iq and the statements that go with them make me wonder if people take their laptops into the bar and then right at closing time, when their "three sheets to the wind" type up their greatest thoughts!