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Ken Whisenhunt And Russ Grimm Have Extensive Knowledge About Steelers
NFL, Team News / Analysis, Player News / Analysis, Rumors, Arizona Cardinals, Ben Roethlisberger, Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm, Super Bowl

The Cardinals Appear To Have A Massive Coaching Advantage Heading Into The Super Bowl

1/22/09 in NFL   |   100%InjuryRate   |   1283 respect

I remember back when the Oakland Raiders made it to Super Bowl XXXVIII in 2003. They had hammered the Jets and Titans in the AFC playoffs and seemed to be on the verge of winning another Super Bowl. Only problem was that across the field from them at the Super Bowl were the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who had Jon Gruden as their head coach. Gruden was only one year removed from coaching the Raiders, having been released from his contract with the team the previous year. For us Raiders fans, we tried to convince ourselves that even though Gruden knew the Raiders cold, it wouldn't make that much of difference in the actual game.

How wrong we were.

NFL MVP Rich Gannon was picked off 5 times and several Bucs players admitted after the game that Gruden had given them so much information on Oakland's offense, they knew exactly what plays were being called. The problem, of course, was that the Raiders really hadn't tinkered much with their offense since Gruden had left. That was obviously a recipe for disaster.

Once again, we find ourselves in a similar position. As I'm sure you're well aware of, Ken Whisenhunt used to be the offensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers. But., perhaps even more important, he knows everything there is to know about Ben Roethlisberger.

And you'll be interested to know this. Back in September of 2007, in the only matchup thus far between the Whisenhunt Cardinals and the Roethlisberger-led Steelers, the Cardinals won 21-14. In the game, Roethlisberger went 17 for 32, getting picked twice and sacked him four times while he threw for 244 yards and two touchdowns.

While Whisenhunt is now two years removed from the Steelers, the fact still remains that he knows Roethlisberger's strengths and weaknesses better than anyone else out there. Whisenhunt was the one who brought Roethlisberger up and worked with Big Ben for his first three years in the league. It's Whisenhunt who built Roethlisberger into an NFL quarterback.

Also intriguing is that Russ Grimm, the former Steelers offensive-line coach who lost out on the Steelers coaching gig to Mike Tomlin, also came with Whisenhunt to the Cardinals in 2007. Grimm has a tremendous amount of knowledge as well on what the Steelers like to do, and what their weaknesses are. He is also more than aware of what it'll take to get past his old linemen to put pressure on Roethlisberger.

The fact that the Pittsburgh offense hasn't changed dramatically at all since Whisenhunt and Grimm left is also to the Cardinals advantage. The Steelers are still a smash mouth football team that likes to run and relies on Big Ben to manage games and occasionally produce a big play when the opportunity arises.

I think just looking at things objectively, the Cardinals need every edge they can get to beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl. And it looks like on the coaching end, they've already got that. Whether that'll translate over into the game remains to be seen, but there's little question that the Cardinals have an incredible opportunity that they can take advantage of to improve their chances of leaving Tampa as World Champions.
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1/24/09   |   MarkTheShark   |   590 respect

wrote:
The Eagles had a defense?

Ranked number 3 right behind the Ravens and Steelers...I have never seen a more dominant performance by an offensive coordinator than what Todd Haley pulled against the Eagles. I thought the Cards would be fortunate to score 20. My gut says the Steelers will quell the Cards high flying Offense....but, the Cards have proved most of us wrong three games in a row now..............

1/23/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
To be honest I don't really care eather way my teams is in the Super Bowl your did not even make the play offs and frankly I am tired of playing games good by.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point. You really have nothing to say, so you're just regurgitating what you've heard from other people. When you get called out on it, you shut it down. Why am I not surprised? Good day.

1/23/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Pat wrote:
I'm not denying that it happened. I just want you to explain exactly what they did, how they used it to their advantage, and how it affected the outcome of the games. I would like to know how exactly it affected their play calling, and specific examples of when and where they benefited from it.

The bottom line is, all you know (and all everyone else knows) is that the Patriots video taped some teams. We don't know how many, we don't know how often, we don't know exactly what they used the tapes for, and we don't know exactly how it affected their games.

So please, for the love of God, stop pretending you do. Because you don't. It's a fact.

To be honest I don't really care eather way my teams is in the Super Bowl your did not even make the play offs and frankly I am tired of playing games good by.

1/23/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
Here you go and artical proving my point.


Patriots Caught Cheating
Tuesday September 11, 2007
With the misadventures of Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, and any other miscreant we've forgotten about finally fading into the background, it seemed our focus could shift to the birth of a new NFL season. But with just one weekend of the 2007 schedule in the books, controversy has surfaced again in the form of misdoings on the sidelines by the New England Patriots.
On Sunday, a member of the Patriots organization was caught shooting video of the New York Jets' bench as the team sent in defensive signals. NFL security confiscated the video camera and videotape, and shipped it to commissioner Roger Goodell, who, in turn, invited Patriots head coach Bill Belichick to New York for a little sit-down.
Tuesday ESPN's Chris Mortenson confirmed that Goodell has concluded the Patriots did in fact violate rules that all teams had specifically been warned about by the new commissioner. And now the team faces sanctions that could include the loss of multiple draft picks, suspensions, and/or fines.
In my view, players who give themselves a competitive advantage through illegal sources (and are caught) are suspended and fined, so the same should apply in a situation such as this. If Belichick knew about this, which it's hard to imagine he didn't, then he should be suspended and fined. And as a deterrent to others who might be tempted to do anything similar in the future -- or are already doing it at this time -- Goodell should show he means business by stripping the team of a valuable draft pick or two.
The really sad part about this is it leaves a cloud hanging over what the franchise has accomplished in recent years, and leaves a nasty little stain on this century's first dynasty. We'll always wonder now, was Belichick a genius or was he operating on an unfair playing field?
Patriots Logo courtesy of the National Football League

I'm not denying that it happened. I just want you to explain exactly what they did, how they used it to their advantage, and how it affected the outcome of the games. I would like to know how exactly it affected their play calling, and specific examples of when and where they benefited from it.

The bottom line is, all you know (and all everyone else knows) is that the Patriots video taped some teams. We don't know how many, we don't know how often, we don't know exactly what they used the tapes for, and we don't know exactly how it affected their games.

So please, for the love of God, stop pretending you do. Because you don't. It's a fact.

1/23/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Here you go and artical proving my point.


Patriots Caught Cheating
Tuesday September 11, 2007
With the misadventures of Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, and any other miscreant we've forgotten about finally fading into the background, it seemed our focus could shift to the birth of a new NFL season. But with just one weekend of the 2007 schedule in the books, controversy has surfaced again in the form of misdoings on the sidelines by the New England Patriots.
On Sunday, a member of the Patriots organization was caught shooting video of the New York Jets' bench as the team sent in defensive signals. NFL security confiscated the video camera and videotape, and shipped it to commissioner Roger Goodell, who, in turn, invited Patriots head coach Bill Belichick to New York for a little sit-down.
Tuesday ESPN's Chris Mortenson confirmed that Goodell has concluded the Patriots did in fact violate rules that all teams had specifically been warned about by the new commissioner. And now the team faces sanctions that could include the loss of multiple draft picks, suspensions, and/or fines.
In my view, players who give themselves a competitive advantage through illegal sources (and are caught) are suspended and fined, so the same should apply in a situation such as this. If Belichick knew about this, which it's hard to imagine he didn't, then he should be suspended and fined. And as a deterrent to others who might be tempted to do anything similar in the future -- or are already doing it at this time -- Goodell should show he means business by stripping the team of a valuable draft pick or two.
The really sad part about this is it leaves a cloud hanging over what the franchise has accomplished in recent years, and leaves a nasty little stain on this century's first dynasty. We'll always wonder now, was Belichick a genius or was he operating on an unfair playing field?
Patriots Logo courtesy of the National Football League

1/23/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
Check out my quiz on fan Iq then you no how much I remember of all  5 super bowl rings.  As for how cheating won your games when you are recoring the way coaches are calling games you will no the play ahead of time its pretty simple. 

You will know what? Please explain to me exactly how they cheated.

Or, instead of lying and pretending you know what you're talking about, just admit that you really don't know exactly what was involved. Nor do you know how it affected the games, or even IF it affected the games at all. Am I right? Of course I am. Have a nice day.

1/23/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Pat wrote:
How did the cheating help the Patriots win those Super Bowls? Once you can tell me exactly how it affected their play on the field, I'll pretend that you have a valid point.

Also... how many of those SB wins do you remember? Exactly.

Check out my quiz on fan Iq then you no how much I remember of all  5 super bowl rings.  As for how cheating won your games when you are recoring the way coaches are calling games you will no the play ahead of time its pretty simple. 

1/23/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

wrote:
I remember ALL of them.....

Here you go...


1/23/09   |   xtra_ill   |   531 respect

zzz.........


S.S.D.D.

1/23/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
Three rings that have been tainted by cheaters. Here is a real picture 5 rings won the hard way with honesty and fairness.

How did the cheating help the Patriots win those Super Bowls? Once you can tell me exactly how it affected their play on the field, I'll pretend that you have a valid point.

Also... how many of those SB wins do you remember? Exactly.

1/23/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Pat wrote:
You're right... it's really hard to be jealous of a team who has won 3 Super Bowls in the past decade. Wait, what?




I vividly remember my team's Super Bowl rings. What about you?

Three rings that have been tainted by cheaters. Here is a real picture 5 rings won the hard way with honesty and fairness.

1/23/09   |   richard2007

wrote:
At least a shot to get trounced in payback fashion for that ridiculous towel trashing charade. That's what they get.

I have to agree with you...When I saw White do that, I knew it would come back to hurt

1/22/09   |   kramer   |   10785 respect

Pat wrote:
Well... you said "Nobody can score on that defense."

Somebody did.

Tennessee put up 24 points on Pittsburgh's defense.  That's the highest amount they've given up all year.  Oh and yes, I'm right when I say the Titans offense scored 24, because Ben threw a pick 6.  However, he has NOT turned the ball over in the playoffs, not even against the turnover machine that is Baltimore's defense.  If he played that smart against the defense that's 2nd in the league behind the defense of his own team, he won't throw any interceptions against the Cards either.

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

wrote:
How many games have they played this year? 19? And this is all you've got?

That game was on Ben completely. Johnson and White were snuffed out. And Johnson and White are an infinite number of >'s Hightower and James.

Not to pull a dookiepacker, but I would feel comfortable betting every last dime I have on the Steelers rolling the Cardinals by at least 10, forfeiting a garbage Arizona score late.

You hate Ben, and are on at least a subconcious level upset that he keeps winning while the Patriots are old news.  What you're forgetting is that I hate him too, but I don't let it cloud my objectivity regarding this game.. it's going to be a laugher.

Well... you said "Nobody can score on that defense."

Somebody did.

1/22/09   |   Big_Country78   |   38 respect

LOL

that's for EVERYONE who told me how bad the NFC WEST sucks this year.

nfc west is the best!

1/22/09   |   MarkTheShark   |   590 respect

wrote:
Wisenhunt probably looked like crap in practice against his own team's defense. Doesn't matter what he knows. Nobody can score on that defense.

..or the Eagle's de....fe...oh....uh...never mind

1/22/09   |   richard2007

Pat wrote:
You're right... no one could possibly put up points against the Steelers.


And to think, after that game I thought my Titans might have a shot this year!!!! Boy was I wrong

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

wrote:
Wisenhunt probably looked like crap in practice against his own team's defense. Doesn't matter what he knows. Nobody can score on that defense.

You're right... no one could possibly put up points against the Steelers.


1/22/09   |   dipstick   |   56 respect

100%injuryrate, I would agree, but for the most part, this Steelers offense IS entirely different than when Whiz was in control.

Ben did great before, because Ben was limited.  Defenses stacked against the run and we were still able to run under Whiz, we had a FAR better line and a better running game.  Ben hit high percentage passes out of playaction a ton more back then than he even has the opportunity now.

This offense today utilizes single-back sets well over 80% when in the past a FB was used just as much or more.  The defenses don't stack against the run as much/the same as they did before.  Parker used to be able to run 50+ yds almost every other game, because he'd squirt through a hole or bounce it outside and no one was there to catch him, now defenses leave one or two back more out of respect for Ben, and they catch Parker incase he squirts through.

Also, I highly doubt that in any game Whiz was coordinator, that Ben went empty backfield, ever, let alone on 1st and 10, or 3rd and 1.  This offense is more on Ben's shoulders now, it was on the running game when Whiz had the drivers seat.

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

tarchul2 wrote:
You know it kinda hard to be jealous of the Patriots being that there coach was caught cheating.  I am not a Patriots hater but that really made me wonder about the wins they did get.  Were they legit or was he watching the tapes he had recorded from previous years.

You're right... it's really hard to be jealous of a team who has won 3 Super Bowls in the past decade. Wait, what?




I vividly remember my team's Super Bowl rings. What about you?

1/22/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Pat wrote:
Ummm... and 29 other teams. Good one, though. It's funny when a guy has his team in the Super Bowl, and is still insanely jealous of the Patriots.

You know it kinda hard to be jealous of the Patriots being that there coach was caught cheating.  I am not a Patriots hater but that really made me wonder about the wins they did get.  Were they legit or was he watching the tapes he had recorded from previous years.

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

steeler7rulz wrote:
53 players sitting watching the superbowl who are they?????   The Patriots''''''lmaooooooooooo

Ummm... and 29 other teams. Good one, though. It's funny when a guy has his team in the Super Bowl, and is still insanely jealous of the Patriots.

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

steeler7rulz wrote:
its funny to see all the Patriot fans dissing Ben,,,,dont hate the player people hate the game,,steelers hopefully get the other hand started and pull further away from the cheateriots,,by the way where was all u Patriot fans back when they could barely win 3 games a year ,,,brady comes along and poof the invention of the Bandwagon comes galloping along,,funny is'nt it,,,

The better question is... where were you last year?

Next time, try for a coherent post. most of the Steelers rings are from before you were even old enough to remember... I'm sure you really enjoyed them, didn't you?

1/22/09   |   steeler7rulz   |   8 respect

53 players sitting watching the superbowl who are they?????   The Patriots''''''lmaooooooooooo

1/22/09   |   steeler7rulz   |   8 respect

its funny to see all the Patriot fans dissing Ben,,,,dont hate the player people hate the game,,steelers hopefully get the other hand started and pull further away from the cheateriots,,by the way where was all u Patriot fans back when they could barely win 3 games a year ,,,brady comes along and poof the invention of the Bandwagon comes galloping along,,funny is'nt it,,,

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

kramer wrote:
Oh my, his "career" rating in the SB is 22.6, how dreadful considering the Steelers have only been to it ONCE since he was drafted!

You're right... it's dreadful.

1/22/09   |   tarchul2   |   33 respect

Two years ago when Ken Whisenhunt was our offensive coordinator we played a completely different game.  Right after he left Mike Tomlin let go of Alan Fanica  the bus had left and he was no longer needed both Ben and Miller were still considered Rookies.   Ben is not our only treat we have Ward, Holmes, Miller  and Parker there is much more to our offense then Big Ben.  The Cardinals have to worry about our Defense they have yet to play a team with smash mouth hitting the way we do.  Mike Tomlin is a smart guy  so needless to say the Steelers are not going to play Wisenhunt football they will be playing Tomlin football.  The Steelers will prevail and bring Ring 6 home. 

1/22/09   |   kramer   |   10785 respect

Pat wrote:
Whisenhunt isn't the only one who knows everything about Ben Roethlisberger. I'm right there with him. And in the interests of educating all of you, I will share my knowledge with the masses:

1) He sucks.
2) He's overrated.
3) His career QB rating in the Super Bowl is 22.6
4) That rating will likely improve on Feb 1, only because it really can't get any worse than that.
5) He sucks, and he's overrated.

Based on that knowledge that Whisenhunt has (and now you have it too!), the Cards are going to rock the house.

Oh my, his "career" rating in the SB is 22.6, how dreadful considering the Steelers have only been to it ONCE since he was drafted!

1/22/09   |   njstixx

What Dumpster said...where's Belichick anyway?

1/22/09   |   dumpsterdave6   |   1 respect

The Steelers appear to have a massive PLAYER advantage.

1/22/09   |   LA_dodgers_fan

Everybody is talking about Whisenhunt but very little mention of Grimm. I've often heard Grimm referred to as one of, if not the smartest man in football by quite a few  current and ex players who have been involved with him.  While I also think this may be getting a bit overblown I do think think there's a reason Grimm and Whisenhunt stuck together. I'm not saying he's the reason for Whisenhunt's success, but it would be foolish to look past a man with that type of knowledge about the game, especially when he's coaching against his former team.

To all the Pittsburgh fans who think this is gonna be a cake walk,  maybe you should ask  Pat and some other NE fans how last year's Super Bowl went.  Don't take anything for granted. Arizona WILL show up. Guaranteed.

1/22/09   |   100%InjuryRate   |   1283 respect

wrote:
Well Pat and 100%...... in all the YRS I have been a Steeler fan the team has not changed on both sides of the ball O is run first pass second.. The D is hit hard every down.. I'm happy we have have Coach Tomlin on our sideline... Say what you have to about Ben and the rest of the team but come Feb 1st there will be crow for both of you guys to eat.... Pat knows how that tastes from the Ravens game....


Oh I have nothing against the Steelers. I wrote this only because I do think the Cards have an advantage here. I think Tomlin is great coach as well, and this whole Whisenhunt-Big Ben thing is probably a bit overblown. But as a guy who watched his team get picked apart by a former coach, I tell you it scares me. And it should scare you too.

1/22/09   |   muska-125

Well i am a Rams fan so i wached the cards cruch us both time this year, so i give all my respect to the cards and how far they have gone. Now Whisenhut is a great coach, and true he was with the steelers team, and probably should have been there head coach. Mike on the other hand is also a great coach, the steelers defense is the best in the league, but i don't think they can stop larry fritzgerald he is just to good. So yes i would say the cardinals have a little bit of an advantage coaching wise, but not much. If the steelers stop Larry then the will win its that simple

1/22/09   |     |   1 respect

Well Pat and 100%...... in all the YRS I have been a Steeler fan the team has not changed on both sides of the ball O is run first pass second.. The D is hit hard every down.. I'm happy we have have Coach Tomlin on our sideline... Say what you have to about Ben and the rest of the team but come Feb 1st there will be crow for both of you guys to eat.... Pat knows how that tastes from the Ravens game....


1/22/09   |   100%InjuryRate   |   1283 respect

wrote:
Wow, look at the statistics. I have mentioned it before, as has Willie Parker, that the Steelers hardly ever use a FB anymore. Many times when there is a FB, it is a TE and not a normal FB. Back then we had a young, uninjured Willie Parker, and a grizzled veteran the Bus. Now we have an injured Parker, and some 3rd and 4th string backs.

We DON'T run smashmouth football anymore. And that may be a big weakness in this game.

There is actually very little similarity to the offense from 2005.

Just because your running backs aren't as good doesn't mean you aren't still running. Sure, it may not be the "smashmouth" of old, but Roethlisberger isn't throwing 40 times a game on average. He threw one more pass this season than he did during Whisenhunt's last year.

And I didn't say the Steelers are the same as their Super Bowl year. I said "The fact that the Pittsburgh offense hasn't changed dramatically at all since Whisenhunt and Grimm left is also to the Cardinals advantage."

Roethlisberger's stats are almost identical in 2006, 2007 and 2008. He's the key anyway, and I don't see any trends that suggest he's anything different from the guy Whisenhunt coached back in 2006.

1/22/09   |   100%InjuryRate   |   1283 respect

wrote:
Actually the offense has changed, the line is totally different, and the former coaches know nothing about Tomlin.  And lets not forget that the STEELERS know plenty about the two coaches you speak of.  It should be a great game, but I think this part of it is overblown.

You remind me of me before the Raiders Super Bowl

"Oh, it won't matter at all that Gruden's on the other sideline.........."

1/22/09   |   100%InjuryRate   |   1283 respect

wrote:
Actually the offense has changed, the line is totally different, and the former coaches know nothing about Tomlin.  And lets not forget that the STEELERS know plenty about the two coaches you speak of.  It should be a great game, but I think this part of it is overblown.

How has their offense changed? The Steelers always play the same way. There's almost no difference between this team and the won that won the Super Bowl against Seattle. Great defense, offense powered primarily by Ben making plays when they're available and running the ball over and over and over again.

They don't have Bettis (who's from Detroit), but the Steelers didn't suddenly become the Air Coryell offense. They're not that different then from when Whisenhunt was there.

1/22/09   |   Pat   |   4510 respect

Whisenhunt isn't the only one who knows everything about Ben Roethlisberger. I'm right there with him. And in the interests of educating all of you, I will share my knowledge with the masses:

1) He sucks.
2) He's overrated.
3) His career QB rating in the Super Bowl is 22.6
4) That rating will likely improve on Feb 1, only because it really can't get any worse than that.
5) He sucks, and he's overrated.

Based on that knowledge that Whisenhunt has (and now you have it too!), the Cards are going to rock the house.