Miguel Cabrera wins American League MVP award

The old-school thinkers win, and so does Miguel Cabrera

11/15/12 in MLB   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Oct 16, 2012; Detroit, MI, USA; Detroit Tigers third baseman Miguel Cabrera (24) during game three of the 2012 ALCS against the New York Yankees at Comerica Park.  Mandatory Credit: Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY SportsDespite a lot of support from baseball's most respected stat geeks, Miguel Cabrera won the American League MVP over Mike Trout, and it really wasn't even all that close.

Cabrera received 22 of 28 possible 1st place votes, running away with the award. Trout received the other 6 first place votes, and finished 2nd.

Adrian Beltre, Robinson Cano, and Josh Hamilton rounded out the top 5.

Click here to see the full voting.

Cabrera won the Triple Crown, leading the league in HR, RBI and batting average. He was the first player to do so since Carl Yastrzemski in 1967.

Congratulations to Miguel Cabrera for an outstanding season, and the 2012 AL MVP award.
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11/28/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

jaysinw wrote:
No you did not follow me there I talked about starters and you went to bench players being hurt. LaRoche is a main reason they won in 2012 and everyone had the Marlins, Braves and Philles in the top 3 in the East with the Nationals fighting for 3rd and the Mets trying to stay out of the basement.

No way the West was as good as the East,  D-backs a quality team, please not even close they were a 500 team only because they can beat up other teams in the West, and the Astros which was the worst team in the ML. The Dodgers I will give they started off hot and then after the All-star spinal down hill.

Yes, Tim and Matt are/were good Sanchez, was never good just decent, just like a flame that glow and quickly disappeared. Lincecum had more then one bad season, and I do hope he comes back I really like the guy. Cain among the best serious, not even close, his stats has not change and like every year after the all star game is starts to lose it, and goes through stretches of pitching liking crap, good thing he has a defense behind him. He is a solid #2 pitcher still not close to being an ACE of a rotation.


One half of the  the offense, again Melky left in the middle of August and by then Pagan, Pence, Scutaro who hit .362 when he went to the Giants was all  ready there and playing  well. Sandoval yes got injured I got that still came back to play and put up numbers, Pence had more game wining hits in those last two months then Posey, so again how are yo going to say he was awful? No one is saying he was great, but when the Giants needed a lift he was one of he main player to do it.  In the Nationals line up there was not another half of an offense, only LaRoche through out the year.

Wait Sanchez, your second baseman, did he play for the Giants this year, I know you Cluberson, Huff, Scutaro, Theriot, and Arias, play second base for the giants what Sanchez? I got you you mean Feddy Sanchez, who was an average hitter, I am not sure how you really think he would have added so much to the Giants line up, ,seeing how those who replace was as good, or in Scutaro case he was better.

Again I know this is hard for you to understand which also is why you contradict yourself through this whole thing. The Nats. lost their players in the beginning of the season, and no one had them winning the EAST, ( most had the Philles, Marlins and Braves) a few had the Nationals getting into the play-offs, by wild card after the Philles went down. (which also shows that every one out there believe the East was the toughest division along with the Central because that is where to 2 wild cards were coming from)

So NO, no one thought the Nationals season was over because they did not figure they were for real it took to the all star game for the MLB network to say yes they are for real, except for a few who stood alone. Now the Giants many had them pick to win the West and when the Dodgers went on a tear many wonder if the dodgers could stay hot all season or would they fade, After injuries the Dodgers began to faded and again the talk of the giants winning the West was there, so when Melky got suspend every one to include MLB network said it is a big lost put since the Giants made moves all ready they had continue to say that the Giants were in place to over take the Dodgers because of the downward spinal they were in. The D-backs were never in contention for the West and was never mention to do anything but finish third.

Now saying that all and having your own words Posey was 1/2 of the offense for the Giants, not only can you argue that he was the MVP on the NL, if the BWAA actually had some standards in picking players for the award it would be proved. LaRoche was the only offense all season the Nats could count on.
 Put Whiteside or Sanchez, well I cannot use Sanchez he was hurt, still I could have taken Whiteside and won the division, the only reason the Giants did not win the division without Posey last season was because the D-backs had better pitching, This year the Dodgers pitching disappeared after the All-Star break, so there is no reason out all that you can could up with in saying the Giants would not have won the West without Posey. A 6 game difference between 2010 season with Posey and 2011 without him and 8 games difference without him in 2010 and with him in 2012. That is because the D-backs had pitching and Dodges had nothing Stretch.

I do not recall talking about bench players being hurt except in context with the regular starters being hurt as well.  Which is where you went.
Going into the season, the Nats were the popular choice to win the East.  It wasn't unanimous but many felt they would at the very least contend.  Yes, going into the season people felt the east was stacked.  But as the season unfolded it turned out that was not the case.  The Marlins stunk.  The Met stunk.  The Phils were way worse than many predicted.  That left the Braves and Nats.  And from day one, the Nats were always there.  As the season went on no one felt they would lose their lead.  Ever.  The same was not said for the Giants.  The mere fact they were in first place was a mild surprise to nearly everyone.  Not only that, every day they were in first all the pundits were completely expecting them to fall.  Even before the Melky suspension.  They all felt the Dodgers would get their act together and pass the Giants.
Lincecum has had but ONE bad season.  His first season was partial and he was adequate.  His next two he won the Cy.  The next season he was still great and his team won the World Series.  His next season he was still the ace.  Only 2012 did he pitch badly.  It's possible he has lost it but it's premature to say so after one bad out of 5 full seasons.  Cain has been the #2 starter for the Giants for years now and would be the #1 starter on at least 18 teams.  Perhaps more.  And this year he WAS the teams #1 guy.
Read this again...  You keep repeating wrong.  Posey was 1/2 of the only consistent offense on the team.  Scutero didn't show up until late.  Pence sucked when he arrived.  Sandoval was hurt and in and out of the line up all year.  Pagan would blow hot and cold all year.  Only Cabrera and Posey could be counted on to produce consistently.
Thinking the Giants could have played Whiteside and still won is just plain ignorant.  Not only does that make zero sense on its own, but it was proved the previous season when Whiteside WAS the #1 guy and the team came up short.  Sanchez is a question mark.  Maybe.  But there is no reason to think he would have the same impact Posey does.  Also, we are talking about what IS.  Not what could have been.  Posey played and Posey was the difference. 
The fact is, the NL west was a better division that people gave it credit for.  It is lazy to think it just because the west was terrible for a couple of seasons recently.  Things change.  The west is better than it was just 4 years ago.

Look...  It seems you will never give the Giants their just due because of some sort of bias against them.  Fine.  Just admit it.  We can agree to disagree and move on.

11/28/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

ML31 wrote:
LaRoche had a good year yes, but he was certainly not the key to their success.  Going into the season the Nats were deemed to be the team to beat and none of that changed in the course of the season.  But take Posey out and replace him with Whiteside or Sanchez and the Giants don't win the west.  Period.  It turns out Posey was the one key player that drives that team. 
The west is stronger than you think.  Not saying it's as good as the Central by any means but it is certainly at least as good as the East.  The Dodgers and Snakes were both quality teams. In the east?  The Braves are about as good as the Dodgers.  The Mets for all the money they spend suck.  The Marlins have sucked forever.  And the Phils are on their way down from being good.  The divisions are at least even.  Saying the West is terrible is just laziness because the division was terrible at one time.
The Sanchez I referred to was the oft injured 2nd baseman.  Not the back up catcher...  Get real.   I admitted they got real lucky with Scutero.  The traded for him because their infield was dropping like flies all season long.  He was traded for 3rd base help but when the Panda came back (from his 2nd injury, btw) he was hot and 2nd was wide open due to lack of production of whoever was put there.  Pence was simply awful for his two months.  If he was hot before the trade he cooled off REAL fast after.  If you think his presence helped propel the Giants to the division crown then you didn't watch him play more than a few games. 
The pitchers you mentioned were very good.  Only Sanchez flamed out.  I'm not prepared to count out Lincecum after just one bad season.  But Cain has showed to be among the leagues best.  I'm sure you will disagree but the results just don't support that.
If I ever got off point it's because I followed you there.  The Giants were better this year for many reasons.  The biggest and most important one...  Posey was around the full season AND picked it up when the only other consistent bat in the line up went down.  What it comes down to is this...  When 1/2 of the only consistent offense in the Giants line up went down, everyone thought the Giants were through especially since what has lately been their biggest strength (starting pitching) wasn't quite up to their high standard as in years past.  Posey picked up the slack.  Yet, when the Nats lost players, NO ONE thought their season was in jeopardy.  Therefore...  Posey is immensely more valuable to the Giants than LaRoche is to the Nats.  There can be no legitimate argument.

No you did not follow me there I talked about starters and you went to bench players being hurt. LaRoche is a main reason they won in 2012 and everyone had the Marlins, Braves and Philles in the top 3 in the East with the Nationals fighting for 3rd and the Mets trying to stay out of the basement.

No way the West was as good as the East,  D-backs a quality team, please not even close they were a 500 team only because they can beat up other teams in the West, and the Astros which was the worst team in the ML. The Dodgers I will give they started off hot and then after the All-star spinal down hill.

Yes, Tim and Matt are/were good Sanchez, was never good just decent, just like a flame that glow and quickly disappeared. Lincecum had more then one bad season, and I do hope he comes back I really like the guy. Cain among the best serious, not even close, his stats has not change and like every year after the all star game is starts to lose it, and goes through stretches of pitching liking crap, good thing he has a defense behind him. He is a solid #2 pitcher still not close to being an ACE of a rotation.


One half of the  the offense, again Melky left in the middle of August and by then Pagan, Pence, Scutaro who hit .362 when he went to the Giants was all  ready there and playing  well. Sandoval yes got injured I got that still came back to play and put up numbers, Pence had more game wining hits in those last two months then Posey, so again how are yo going to say he was awful? No one is saying he was great, but when the Giants needed a lift he was one of he main player to do it.  In the Nationals line up there was not another half of an offense, only LaRoche through out the year.

Wait Sanchez, your second baseman, did he play for the Giants this year, I know you Cluberson, Huff, Scutaro, Theriot, and Arias, play second base for the giants what Sanchez? I got you you mean Feddy Sanchez, who was an average hitter, I am not sure how you really think he would have added so much to the Giants line up, ,seeing how those who replace was as good, or in Scutaro case he was better.

Again I know this is hard for you to understand which also is why you contradict yourself through this whole thing. The Nats. lost their players in the beginning of the season, and no one had them winning the EAST, ( most had the Philles, Marlins and Braves) a few had the Nationals getting into the play-offs, by wild card after the Philles went down. (which also shows that every one out there believe the East was the toughest division along with the Central because that is where to 2 wild cards were coming from)

So NO, no one thought the Nationals season was over because they did not figure they were for real it took to the all star game for the MLB network to say yes they are for real, except for a few who stood alone. Now the Giants many had them pick to win the West and when the Dodgers went on a tear many wonder if the dodgers could stay hot all season or would they fade, After injuries the Dodgers began to faded and again the talk of the giants winning the West was there, so when Melky got suspend every one to include MLB network said it is a big lost put since the Giants made moves all ready they had continue to say that the Giants were in place to over take the Dodgers because of the downward spinal they were in. The D-backs were never in contention for the West and was never mention to do anything but finish third.

Now saying that all and having your own words Posey was 1/2 of the offense for the Giants, not only can you argue that he was the MVP on the NL, if the BWAA actually had some standards in picking players for the award it would be proved. LaRoche was the only offense all season the Nats could count on.
 Put Whiteside or Sanchez, well I cannot use Sanchez he was hurt, still I could have taken Whiteside and won the division, the only reason the Giants did not win the division without Posey last season was because the D-backs had better pitching, This year the Dodgers pitching disappeared after the All-Star break, so there is no reason out all that you can could up with in saying the Giants would not have won the West without Posey. A 6 game difference between 2010 season with Posey and 2011 without him and 8 games difference without him in 2010 and with him in 2012. That is because the D-backs had pitching and Dodges had nothing Stretch.

11/28/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

jaysinw wrote:
The West was not even close to being a strong division what which team are you calling strong"?????All you had was the Dodgers the D-back and Padres were a joke. Pence was more hot then cold when the Giants got him he came up with the winning hits more times then not.

Really, Posey that did of a deal last season the Giants won 8 less games without Posey, coming in 2nd and was in the play-off contention till Sep. 24. 8 games in not the big of an in cease.

Sanchez gone from day one, which Sanchez are you talking about, the backup catcher who cares we are not talking about back up not even close to being the same as losing your starter.

Lucky Scutero got hot the last months of the season he did not become a Giants till the end of July just like Pence who was also hot and so was Pagan who hit over .360 from August on.

this is no different when you went out and said that Jonathan Sanchez, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain were great pitchers. Sanchez was traded to the Royal sucked there and went to the Rockies and sucked there Lunchroom never recovered like you stated and had even a worse year in 2012. Matt Cain who you claim issues were because he did not get run support got the run support this year and his stats are about the same this year as every other year and he had run support.

Every team has injuries I agree, which is why when your starters is hit with injuries and you have one player which is consisted in getting the hits which puts his team ahead, tied or within 1 run to tying the game especially with 2 outs is more important then a player who got hot for 2 months and majority of his hits came by when his team is out of hit or the winning side or losing side.

Please stay on point and do not say ever again the Giants were better this year because Posey was playing when there is only an 8 game difference between this year and 2011, and when they won it in 2010 with Posey they only won 6 more games then they did without him in 2011. Not a big difference, without LaRoche you are looking at 17-23 games difference for the Nats in which his hit brought the team back into a tie or win. Signs do not point to the Giants winning the West if they had Posey, he is a good player, but the D-backs pitching was better, and they got hot when it counted. That is like saying the Tigers would have won the WS because all signs point to it, because they have a better staff and hotter hitters. That is why the game is played and unnamed players come out and make big impact just like Cody Ross, an average player who did not do much prior to 2010 and has not since.
(Edited by ML31)

LaRoche had a good year yes, but he was certainly not the key to their success.  Going into the season the Nats were deemed to be the team to beat and none of that changed in the course of the season.  But take Posey out and replace him with Whiteside or Sanchez and the Giants don't win the west.  Period.  It turns out Posey was the one key player that drives that team. 
The west is stronger than you think.  Not saying it's as good as the Central by any means but it is certainly at least as good as the East.  The Dodgers and Snakes were both quality teams. In the east?  The Braves are about as good as the Dodgers.  The Mets for all the money they spend suck.  The Marlins have sucked forever.  And the Phils are on their way down from being good.  The divisions are at least even.  Saying the West is terrible is just laziness because the division was terrible at one time.
The Sanchez I referred to was the oft injured 2nd baseman.  Not the back up catcher...  Get real.   I admitted they got real lucky with Scutero.  The traded for him because their infield was dropping like flies all season long.  He was traded for 3rd base help but when the Panda came back (from his 2nd injury, btw) he was hot and 2nd was wide open due to lack of production of whoever was put there.  Pence was simply awful for his two months.  If he was hot before the trade he cooled off REAL fast after.  If you think his presence helped propel the Giants to the division crown then you didn't watch him play more than a few games. 
The pitchers you mentioned were very good.  Only Sanchez flamed out.  I'm not prepared to count out Lincecum after just one bad season.  But Cain has showed to be among the leagues best.  I'm sure you will disagree but the results just don't support that.
If I ever got off point it's because I followed you there.  The Giants were better this year for many reasons.  The biggest and most important one...  Posey was around the full season AND picked it up when the only other consistent bat in the line up went down.  What it comes down to is this...  When 1/2 of the only consistent offense in the Giants line up went down, everyone thought the Giants were through especially since what has lately been their biggest strength (starting pitching) wasn't quite up to their high standard as in years past.  Posey picked up the slack.  Yet, when the Nats lost players, NO ONE thought their season was in jeopardy.  Therefore...  Posey is immensely more valuable to the Giants than LaRoche is to the Nats.  There can be no legitimate argument.

11/27/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

ML31 wrote:
Sounds like you are talking about the kind of injuries that every team goes through.  The Giants had their share, too.  Sandoval was in and out of the line up all year long.  Sanzhez was gone from day one.  They didn't get their solution until they got lucky with Scutero getting red hot the last two months.  Who would have thought THAT?  Not to mention the revolving door bull pen situation.  Pence had a nagging foot injury that hampered him his entire time with the team and it was reflected in his crappy .617 OPS.  Pagan did blow hot and cold.  May was a hot month but his bat was absent for the next two.  Cabrera was consistent since day one and was the only bat (apart from Posey's) that could be counted on to produce.  When he went down, nearly EVERYONE felt that was the end of the Giants.  MLB network people were writing them off.  Especially when the Dodgers got Ramierez and promptly swept a series from them. 

Sorry...  All things being equal Posey was indeed far more important to the Giants than LaRoche was to the Nats.  There is no argument.    Without LaRoche, the Nats still win the East.  Which was not as strong as you may think and the West is much stronger than you see it, too.  Take Posey away and the Giants would be finished.  Just like they were in 2011.  I'm convinced the Giants win the West that year had he been playing.  No, i can't prove that.  But all signs point to it.

The West was not even close to being a strong division what which team are you calling strong"?????All you had was the Dodgers the D-back and Padres were a joke. Pence was more hot then cold when the Giants got him he came up with the winning hits more times then not.

Really, Posey that did of a deal last season the Giants won 8 less games without Posey, coming in 2nd and was in the play-off contention till Sep. 24. 8 games in not the big of an in cease.

Sanchez gone from day one, which Sanchez are you talking about, the backup catcher who cares we are not talking about back up not even close to being the same as losing your starter.

Lucky Scutero got hot the last months of the season he did not become a Giants till the end of July just like Pence who was also hot and so was Pagan who hit over .360 from August on.

this is no different when you went out and said that Jonathan Sanchez, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain were great pitchers. Sanchez was traded to the Royal sucked there and went to the Rockies and sucked there Lunchroom never recovered like you stated and had even a worse year in 2012. Matt Cain who you claim issues were because he did not get run support got the run support this year and his stats are about the same this year as every other year and he had run support.

Every team has injuries I agree, which is why when your starters is hit with injuries and you have one player which is consisted in getting the hits which puts his team ahead, tied or within 1 run to tying the game especially with 2 outs is more important then a player who got hot for 2 months and majority of his hits came by when his team is out of hit or the winning side or losing side.

Please stay on point and do not say ever again the Giants were better this year because Posey was playing when there is only an 8 game difference between this year and 2011, and when they won it in 2010 with Posey they only won 6 more games then they did without him in 2011. Not a big difference, without LaRoche you are looking at 17-23 games difference for the Nats in which his hit brought the team back into a tie or win. Signs do not point to the Giants winning the West if they had Posey, he is a good player, but the D-backs pitching was better, and they got hot when it counted. That is like saying the Tigers would have won the WS because all signs point to it, because they have a better staff and hotter hitters. That is why the game is played and unnamed players come out and make big impact just like Cody Ross, an average player who did not do much prior to 2010 and has not since.

11/27/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

jaysinw wrote:
Bernadina did not step into the outfield nicely I now know you did not see many of the Nats games. Davey used a rotating outfield he was in the out field for 94 games, mostly at the end of the games. Ankiel, and Tracy played more of the outfield then, Bernadina was still the 4Th OF. Yes, yes Zimmermann had plate appearance and you looking at that stat is why the MVP and CY Young is a joke. Zimermann had hurt his shoulder back in April and was out for 13 games and needed surgery but was told he can hold off till the end of the season which he did. One of the reason he went through a 5-48 slump in June with 1 RBI, so yeah he played but was not a threat he should have been. Werth went down in what I believe the second game of the season with a broken wrist, Suzuki did not get to the Nats till Aug, by then they had a strong lead on the East and yes he did come up clutch. Desmond who was another player which was hot for the Nats also went down with injury, Tracy who in the beginning of the season came up big with pinch hits and replace Werth till he got hurt. I could go on with the injuries with the Nats they were the walking wounded as I said, and no no one at the time said it was the end for the Nats when he went down because again it was like the second game of the season and no one had the Nats winning the East.  Deep no one knew how the rookies and players tossed away from other teams would respond at that time, hell even Bryce did not get called up yet. Roche, who had more hits then Posey whenthe team was behind or tied which brought his team back within a run or tied it or went ahead especially with 2 outs.

Pagan hit .377 in May how are you going to say he only got hot when Melky went down? Flat out lie, and then in Aug. you got Pence who with the hot Pagan makes up for Melky for the last 45 games of the season. That's all Melky missed out on for the regular season and he did not get suspended till the middle of August, and by then the dodgers were all ready on a downward spinal and it was all ready said the west would be the Giants to lose more then the Dodgers to win. There was even a few articles on here by your fellow Giant fans who were writing the articles.  

Posey was hitting really well when you had Melky still in the line up, it is not like he just started to do it when Melky got suspended, he had a lot of help it was hard to pitch around especially when you still had Sandoval on the team. you keep forgetting him.

I knew you would say all that you had when it comes to the Giants you are very bias and do not what to see the truth in matters. I am  not taking nothing away from Posey I like him a lot which is why I watched a lot of Giants games, but I also watched a lot of the Nationals seeing how they play in the East and I have a for ever going bet with a family member who is a fan of the Nats. Laroche was more important OT the Nats without him the Nats would not have won the East, as for ht Giants in the weakest division in the NIL could have still won the West. Yes Posey in big time but all the giants had to beat was the Dodgers who, by mid July was in a downward spinal that moat in baseball felt they would not pull it out, hence the West was for the Giants to lose more then the dodgers to win, which every person covering baseball was echoing at the time. The MVP , CY Young awards are a joke I do not care which sport, there are at least 3 players almost every year which could win the award legitimately, but don't What is the standards to winning the award there is none, everyone with a vote determines what they think is most important and till that is correct, till there is a true standards we will get a player who won the BA tittle and he did not even have the best BA in the NL or a triple crown winner who if we take away the stats against NL team does not win the AL triple crown and cannot say it is the ML triple crown because he did not have the stats for that either.
(Edited by ML31)

Sounds like you are talking about the kind of injuries that every team goes through.  The Giants had their share, too.  Sandoval was in and out of the line up all year long.  Sanzhez was gone from day one.  They didn't get their solution until they got lucky with Scutero getting red hot the last two months.  Who would have thought THAT?  Not to mention the revolving door bull pen situation.  Pence had a nagging foot injury that hampered him his entire time with the team and it was reflected in his crappy .617 OPS.  Pagan did blow hot and cold.  May was a hot month but his bat was absent for the next two.  Cabrera was consistent since day one and was the only bat (apart from Posey's) that could be counted on to produce.  When he went down, nearly EVERYONE felt that was the end of the Giants.  MLB network people were writing them off.  Especially when the Dodgers got Ramierez and promptly swept a series from them. 

Sorry...  All things being equal Posey was indeed far more important to the Giants than LaRoche was to the Nats.  There is no argument.    Without LaRoche, the Nats still win the East.  Which was not as strong as you may think and the West is much stronger than you see it, too.  Take Posey away and the Giants would be finished.  Just like they were in 2011.  I'm convinced the Giants win the West that year had he been playing.  No, i can't prove that.  But all signs point to it.

11/26/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

ML31 wrote:
Bernadina stepped in in the outfield quite well.  Zimmerman had 641 plate appearances.  He never went anywhere.  They traded for Suzuki and he did just as good a job.  I'll give you that Werth's replacements never did as well.  But he still had 344 PA.  The Nats were not the walking wounded you made them out to be.
Pagan did get hot when Melky was suspended but he never was near what Cabrera was.  In fact, when Cabrera went down, many felt that was the end of the Giants.  But when the time came, Posey stepped up what was already a good season.   When Werth went down, no one felt that was the end of the Nats.  They were already deep.  Sorry but we seem to have a difference of opinion on this one.

Bernadina did not step into the outfield nicely I now know you did not see many of the Nats games. Davey used a rotating outfield he was in the out field for 94 games, mostly at the end of the games. Ankiel, and Tracy played more of the outfield then, Bernadina was still the 4Th OF. Yes, yes Zimmermann had plate appearance and you looking at that stat is why the MVP and CY Young is a joke. Zimermann had hurt his shoulder back in April and was out for 13 games and needed surgery but was told he can hold off till the end of the season which he did. One of the reason he went through a 5-48 slump in June with 1 RBI, so yeah he played but was not a threat he should have been. Werth went down in what I believe the second game of the season with a broken wrist, Suzuki did not get to the Nats till Aug, by then they had a strong lead on the East and yes he did come up clutch. Desmond who was another player which was hot for the Nats also went down with injury, Tracy who in the beginning of the season came up big with pinch hits and replace Werth till he got hurt. I could go on with the injuries with the Nats they were the walking wounded as I said, and no no one at the time said it was the end for the Nats when he went down because again it was like the second game of the season and no one had the Nats winning the East.  Deep no one knew how the rookies and players tossed away from other teams would respond at that time, hell even Bryce did not get called up yet. Roche, who had more hits then Posey whenthe team was behind or tied which brought his team back within a run or tied it or went ahead especially with 2 outs.

Pagan hit .377 in May how are you going to say he only got hot when Melky went down? Flat out lie, and then in Aug. you got Pence who with the hot Pagan makes up for Melky for the last 45 games of the season. That's all Melky missed out on for the regular season and he did not get suspended till the middle of August, and by then the dodgers were all ready on a downward spinal and it was all ready said the west would be the Giants to lose more then the Dodgers to win. There was even a few articles on here by your fellow Giant fans who were writing the articles.  

Posey was hitting really well when you had Melky still in the line up, it is not like he just started to do it when Melky got suspended, he had a lot of help it was hard to pitch around especially when you still had Sandoval on the team. you keep forgetting him.

I knew you would say all that you had when it comes to the Giants you are very bias and do not what to see the truth in matters. I am  not taking nothing away from Posey I like him a lot which is why I watched a lot of Giants games, but I also watched a lot of the Nationals seeing how they play in the East and I have a for ever going bet with a family member who is a fan of the Nats. Laroche was more important OT the Nats without him the Nats would not have won the East, as for ht Giants in the weakest division in the NIL could have still won the West. Yes Posey in big time but all the giants had to beat was the Dodgers who, by mid July was in a downward spinal that moat in baseball felt they would not pull it out, hence the West was for the Giants to lose more then the dodgers to win, which every person covering baseball was echoing at the time. The MVP , CY Young awards are a joke I do not care which sport, there are at least 3 players almost every year which could win the award legitimately, but don't What is the standards to winning the award there is none, everyone with a vote determines what they think is most important and till that is correct, till there is a true standards we will get a player who won the BA tittle and he did not even have the best BA in the NL or a triple crown winner who if we take away the stats against NL team does not win the AL triple crown and cannot say it is the ML triple crown because he did not have the stats for that either.

11/25/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

jaysinw wrote:
I am not taking anything anyway from Posey, with that said Jayson Werth went down, Matt Morse went down, Ryan Zimmermann went down, Wilson Ramos, and list goes on for the Nats, and when the Nats were down LaRoche has more hits which brought the Nats back within 1, tied, or put the Nats ahead then Milkey only missed 40+ games so Posey did not carry the team that long, plus he had help by Crawford, Sandoval, and Pence when he came along in August. I like Posey, and was gald to see him win, but over-all LaRoche meant more to his team.

Bernadina stepped in in the outfield quite well.  Zimmerman had 641 plate appearances.  He never went anywhere.  They traded for Suzuki and he did just as good a job.  I'll give you that Werth's replacements never did as well.  But he still had 344 PA.  The Nats were not the walking wounded you made them out to be.
Pagan did get hot when Melky was suspended but he never was near what Cabrera was.  In fact, when Cabrera went down, many felt that was the end of the Giants.  But when the time came, Posey stepped up what was already a good season.   When Werth went down, no one felt that was the end of the Nats.  They were already deep.  Sorry but we seem to have a difference of opinion on this one.

11/25/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

ML31 wrote:
Interesting take.  However I still think Posey had a much larger impact on the Giants success than LaRoche had on the Nats success.  Plus, Posey really put the team on his shoulders when Melky got suspended. 

I am not taking anything anyway from Posey, with that said Jayson Werth went down, Matt Morse went down, Ryan Zimmermann went down, Wilson Ramos, and list goes on for the Nats, and when the Nats were down LaRoche has more hits which brought the Nats back within 1, tied, or put the Nats ahead then Milkey only missed 40+ games so Posey did not carry the team that long, plus he had help by Crawford, Sandoval, and Pence when he came along in August. I like Posey, and was gald to see him win, but over-all LaRoche meant more to his team.

11/25/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

jaysinw wrote:
See if you wanted to go there, then LaRoche had a more of an  impact with the Nationals then Posey, Cabrera and Trout.

Interesting take.  However I still think Posey had a much larger impact on the Giants success than LaRoche had on the Nats success.  Plus, Posey really put the team on his shoulders when Melky got suspended. 

11/25/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

ML31 wrote:
I guess that depends on your definition of what the MVP is.  If just raw numbers then perhaps you are right.  But if you look at the player's impact on his team...  Comparing how the team would have done without his contributions...  Posey was certainly more valuable to the Giants success than Trout's contribution to the Angels lack of success.  And Posey was at least as important to the Giants as Cabrera was to the Tigiers.  Perhaps even more so....
(Edited by jaysinw)

See if you wanted to go there, then LaRoche had a more of an  impact with the Nationals then Posey, Cabrera and Trout.

11/24/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

Dan_B wrote:
Couldn't really go wrong this year. It's one of those times when 2 AL guys deserved the MVP more than any NL guy.

I guess that depends on your definition of what the MVP is.  If just raw numbers then perhaps you are right.  But if you look at the player's impact on his team...  Comparing how the team would have done without his contributions...  Posey was certainly more valuable to the Giants success than Trout's contribution to the Angels lack of success.  And Posey was at least as important to the Giants as Cabrera was to the Tigiers.  Perhaps even more so....

11/16/12   |   Eric_   |   7716 respect

Jeff_P wrote:
CABRERA............HANDS DOWN......TRIPLE CROWN WINNER.....IT WOULDVE BEEN A DISGRACE IF HE DIDNT WIN........HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER........TROUT FOR 1 YEAR......LETS SEE WHAT TROUT DOES IN THE NEXT YEAR AND YEARS AFTER THAT.......

1.) Why does the Triple Crown automatically equal MVP? It's three metrics, one of which is quite flawed and another which is basically useless in measuring value.

2.) The award is for this year only. Why would what these players have done in the past matter one iota?

I know you won't respond, but for the record, I wanted to ask the questions.

11/16/12   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

Heading into this I thought it would be interesting because it comes down to new school stats vs old school stats.  I still thought Cabrera would win, however.  Hard to go against the triple crown....

11/16/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

Jeff_P wrote:
CABRERA............HANDS DOWN......TRIPLE CROWN WINNER.....IT WOULDVE BEEN A DISGRACE IF HE DIDNT WIN........HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER........TROUT FOR 1 YEAR......LETS SEE WHAT TROUT DOES IN THE NEXT YEAR AND YEARS AFTER THAT.......

LOL, Ok MVP is for one year, has nothing to do with what a player does in his career, so your rant has no merit.

11/16/12   |   Jeff_P   |   19813 respect

CABRERA............HANDS DOWN......TRIPLE CROWN WINNER.....IT WOULDVE BEEN A DISGRACE IF HE DIDNT WIN........HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER........TROUT FOR 1 YEAR......LETS SEE WHAT TROUT DOES IN THE NEXT YEAR AND YEARS AFTER THAT.......

11/16/12   |   jaysinw   |   4899 respect

Not sure where the old school thinkers won, stats from these most respected geeks, just like the BCS championship does not give you a true winner

11/15/12   |   Eric_   |   7716 respect

Dan_B wrote:
Who would you have voted for if you had a vote?

Was it not obvious?

11/15/12   |   Scott   |   51954 respect

This is the second supposedly close vote this month to be over before the polls on the west coast closed

11/15/12   |   Dan_B   |   1067 respect

Eric_ wrote:
Yeah, not a surprise. Maybe a bit of a surprise it was that much of a blowout, but then again not really given the BBWAA.

Who would you have voted for if you had a vote?

11/15/12   |   Eric_   |   7716 respect

Yeah, not a surprise. Maybe a bit of a surprise it was that much of a blowout, but then again not really given the BBWAA.

11/15/12   |   Dan_B   |   1067 respect

(Edited by Dan_B)

Couldn't really go wrong this year. It's one of those times when 2 AL guys deserved the MVP more than any NL guy.