No, I'm not from West Virginia and I'm still tired of it!

10/25/06 in NCAAF   |   Jared   |   respect

Let me start this by saying that I bleed burnt orange and am an official alum of one of West Virginia's most hated opponents.  Now that that is all out of the way I will get to the point...all you WVU "haters" of the country, BACK OFF! 

 

Each week I hear that WVU hasn't played anyone and that they aren't proven.  Granted, their schedule isn't the toughest around but if one takes a longer look at it, then it isn't as soft as one might suspect...

 

Maryland - WVU won 45-24

     No, Maryland isn't a top 25 team anymore but they have played well of late losing to ranked Georgia Tech by only 4.  Also, they have beaten both UVA and NC State fairly soundly.  Freigen is a top tier coach and is always tough to beat.

 

 

 

Syracuse - WVU won 41-17

     Syracuse has fallen far from when McNabb was at the helm of the offense.  They aren't terrible though.  They have a win at Illinois which beat Mich St at their house and beat a very solid Wyoming team to boot.

 

Miss State - WVU won 42-14

      Okay, Miss St isn't very good, granted, but they did keep Georgia in check and came close to pulling out a stunning upset.  Keep in mind that UGA was ranked in the top 10 for quite a while.

 

Now I don't believe for one second that any of these wins should sway fans to think that WVU is #1 material.  I only use these examples to show that on the surface, the schedule isn't as bad as it may seem.

 

Coming up on the schedule is two ranked, and undefeated I might add, teams in Louisville and Rutgers.  They also play a much improved Pitt team that boasts the #1 rated QB in the nation.  Add to that a team in Cincinnati that gave Ohio St and Virginia Tech fits in the first half of their games and that almost beat Louisville, and I believe you have a very tough schedule down the stretch that I believe should put to rest the thought that WVU's schedule SHOULD keep them out of national title contention. 

 

This is a VERY talented team with two of the more exciting players in the country in Slaton and White.  Their offense can hang with anyone, their defense is solid, and they have an outstanding coach in Rodriguez.  To me, if they win out, they should have just a good a shot as any PAC-10 undefeated team or SEC one-loss team to go to the national title showdown. 

 

So to all you that "hate" on WVU...I turn my nose up at you and challenge you to watch a WVU game.  You will be pleasantly surprised and ultimately delighted to see one of the top 3 teams in the country "get it on"!

 

 

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11/3/06   |   Seth   |   301 respect

CriticalFanatic wrote:
I think WVU would score on Michigan with Slaton. I don't see how this proves the WVU offense wouldn't score? They would have scored on the possessions they fumbled.

But they wouldn't stop Michigan. And Mich would make a few more stops.

Not that it's going to happen, but I truely believe that sure WVU could score on Michigan, but not very much because Pat White would have to throw too much. And I don't think WVU (or Louisville) has that great of a defense. I'll take Michigan (or OSU) by 2 TD's over either team.

3 TD's over Rutgers. Rice doesn't have WVU's OLine, he'd get stuffed.

11/2/06   |   CriticalFanatic

A1Duckfan wrote:
Louisville looks like they are much better and that means WVU is a pretender, not a contender.  I will go out on a limb and say that if WVU makes it to a BCS bowl, they will get beat in it.

Louisville is better. I don't know about much better. This game is at home and WV didn't put two hands on the ball twice. Agreed that makes them worse for not hanging on, but WVU would have scored on those possessions and it'd be a closer game.

Sometimes it's the slimmest of margins that make a game even to 14 points.

Both of these D's are worse than I thought.

Depends who WVU matched up with. I think they'd beat Notre Dame in a shootout. But I'd take Florida or Auburn over them.

11/2/06   |   CriticalFanatic

fxdirect wrote:
I think tonight is showing that Michigan would be able to handle the WVU offense.

I think WVU would score on Michigan with Slaton. I don't see how this proves the WVU offense wouldn't score? They would have scored on the possessions they fumbled.

But they wouldn't stop Michigan. And Mich would make a few more stops.

11/2/06   |   fxdirect

CriticalFanatic wrote:
The option run / shotgun spread option / and flat out more speed has killed Michigan.

Agreed maybe this years' team has finally overcome those deficiencies ... but I've yet to see the Wolves play a team that threatened with that attack. Northwestern sort of and only lost 17-3. I won't compare VY to Pat White at all ... but a running QB from the shot gun and a fast fast fast RB has killed the Wolverines over the last few years. The Mountaineers O-Line is REAL underrated. Better than any Big Ten O-Line outside of Ohio State and Wisconsin.

I think tonight is showing that Michigan would be able to handle the WVU offense.

11/2/06   |   A1Duckfan

Louisville looks like they are much better and that means WVU is a pretender, not a contender.  I will go out on a limb and say that if WVU makes it to a BCS bowl, they will get beat in it.

11/2/06   |   Jared

fxdirect wrote:

Well, #1, I wouldn't take Saturday's game as evidence of anything.  The weather in Michigan was terrible, and they still managed to force 5 turnovers.  I think it is safe to say that Northwestern was not a match.

 

#2:  Vince Young could throw, so it wasn't like the option was the only thing that Michigan had to cover two years ago in the Rose Bowl.  Pat White is not going to throw like VY.

 

#3:  256 yards rushing in 9 games.  That is 28 and change a game.  Even if they gave up twice that amount to West Virginia, safe to say they might win...

In reference to #3...Pat White is a lot like VY.  Poor mechanics, strong arm, more runner than passer, and not a lot of weapons to throw the ball to.

11/2/06   |   Jared

(Edited by Jared)

Well, so far Louisville is handling WVU 30-14 midway through the third.  There is still a lot of football to play though...

 

If Louisville wins, do we have this argument about them?

11/1/06   |   fxdirect

CriticalFanatic wrote:
The option run / shotgun spread option / and flat out more speed has killed Michigan.

Agreed maybe this years' team has finally overcome those deficiencies ... but I've yet to see the Wolves play a team that threatened with that attack. Northwestern sort of and only lost 17-3. I won't compare VY to Pat White at all ... but a running QB from the shot gun and a fast fast fast RB has killed the Wolverines over the last few years. The Mountaineers O-Line is REAL underrated. Better than any Big Ten O-Line outside of Ohio State and Wisconsin.

Well, #1, I wouldn't take Saturday's game as evidence of anything.  The weather in Michigan was terrible, and they still managed to force 5 turnovers.  I think it is safe to say that Northwestern was not a match.

 

#2:  Vince Young could throw, so it wasn't like the option was the only thing that Michigan had to cover two years ago in the Rose Bowl.  Pat White is not going to throw like VY.

 

#3:  256 yards rushing in 9 games.  That is 28 and change a game.  Even if they gave up twice that amount to West Virginia, safe to say they might win...

11/1/06   |   CriticalFanatic

fxdirect wrote:

Woah, how can you say that?  West Virginia is built on running the ball, something that Michigan has no trouble stopping.  The fact that Pat White rarely passes the ball would be a dream for the Michigan defense as they continually just stack up against Steve Slaton and White.

 

I really doubt that Michigan would have trouble stopping the Mountaineers.  And West Virginia is yet to face a team with offense this year.

 

I think you have that call wrong CF.

(Edited by CriticalFanatic)

The option run / shotgun spread option / and flat out more speed has killed Michigan.

Agreed maybe this years' team has finally overcome those deficiencies ... but I've yet to see the Wolves play a team that threatened with that attack. Northwestern sort of and only lost 17-3. I won't compare VY to Pat White at all ... but a running QB from the shot gun and a fast fast fast RB has killed the Wolverines over the last few years. The Mountaineers O-Line is REAL underrated. Better than any Big Ten O-Line outside of Ohio State and Wisconsin.

11/1/06   |   fxdirect

CriticalFanatic wrote:
I agree. But I'd like for West Virginia to have the chance so that we know. They dismissed last year ... laughed at ... and told they were taking a better team's spot. Then they systematically disected a very good defensive Georgia team. I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt right now. Having watched a great deal of their games this season ... I believe they are a good football team. Not sure yet that they're top 5 material, but i have no problem (at this stage) if they wind up in the game against OSU.

(For the record, just because of matchups ... I think WVU would beat Michigan. The Mountaineers are exactly the kind of team that gives the Wolverines fits)

Woah, how can you say that?  West Virginia is built on running the ball, something that Michigan has no trouble stopping.  The fact that Pat White rarely passes the ball would be a dream for the Michigan defense as they continually just stack up against Steve Slaton and White.

 

I really doubt that Michigan would have trouble stopping the Mountaineers.  And West Virginia is yet to face a team with offense this year.

 

I think you have that call wrong CF.

11/1/06   |   CriticalFanatic

Pat wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying BSU = WVU. But I'm still getting a little tired of hearing that "Team X is undefeated, they deserve ______."

If they haven't played anyone good, then they SHOULD be undefeated. And we really don't know where they actually stand.

To me, it's just unfortunate that there is an incestuous Big East triangle of undefeateds(Louisville, WVU, Rutgers), who play NO quality opponents besides each other. Aside from Louisville's win over an uncharacteristically average Miami team, they have ZERO ranked opponents besides each other. In my opinion, there's really no way to tell if these teams are legit, until we see them play a legit team.

It will be unfortunate if that ends up being in the National Championship team, and they get blown out, after having snubbed a more qualified and competitive team on their way there.

I agree. But I'd like for West Virginia to have the chance so that we know. They dismissed last year ... laughed at ... and told they were taking a better team's spot. Then they systematically disected a very good defensive Georgia team. I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt right now. Having watched a great deal of their games this season ... I believe they are a good football team. Not sure yet that they're top 5 material, but i have no problem (at this stage) if they wind up in the game against OSU.

(For the record, just because of matchups ... I think WVU would beat Michigan. The Mountaineers are exactly the kind of team that gives the Wolverines fits)

11/1/06   |   Pat   |   5134 respect

To be clear, I'm not saying BSU = WVU. But I'm still getting a little tired of hearing that "Team X is undefeated, they deserve ______."

If they haven't played anyone good, then they SHOULD be undefeated. And we really don't know where they actually stand.

To me, it's just unfortunate that there is an incestuous Big East triangle of undefeateds(Louisville, WVU, Rutgers), who play NO quality opponents besides each other. Aside from Louisville's win over an uncharacteristically average Miami team, they have ZERO ranked opponents besides each other. In my opinion, there's really no way to tell if these teams are legit, until we see them play a legit team.

It will be unfortunate if that ends up being in the National Championship team, and they get blown out, after having snubbed a more qualified and competitive team on their way there.

11/1/06   |   CriticalFanatic

Pat wrote:
How come Boise State doesn't count? Is it because their schedule is too easy? Oh wait...sounds familiar, doesn't it?

I think it's fair to take into consideration WVU's beatdown of Georgia last year. That same Georgia team that destroyed Boise State. WVU and BSU are essentially comprised of the same starters this year from a year ago. I know you're not supposed to cound last year for this year ... but it terms of giving one team more respect over the other it's fair.

11/1/06   |   fxdirect

Jared wrote:
Boise State's SOS is actually lower than WVU's.

Depends where you look.  There are different ways of calculating SOS, which is why there are multiple computer polls.  I actually have Boise State with the better schedule right now, though just barely.   Of course, they are both in the bottom 10 in my SOS ratings, so I don't know what that is worth

11/1/06   |   Jared

cubhawk57 wrote:
  Very good points Jared. But it could be all for nothing if Louisville beats them and THEY finish undefeated. You going to defend their right for a shot at the title then? Not trying to be funny, I'm just curious how you feel about Louisville. My opionion is if there are two undefeateds at the end of the year, they should play for the title. Boise St. doesn't count, although I will say that should they go undefeated, they deserve a BCS bowl and that's why the "extra" was added.

I really like U of L.  It's my brother's al ma mater.  Patrino is a great coach that handles pressure very well.  I also think that they have one of the better QB's in the nation.  I'm just really not sold on them beating WVU.  But if they win Thursday and win out to finish the season then I think that they should get a national championship bid.

11/1/06   |   Jared

Pat wrote:
How come Boise State doesn't count? Is it because their schedule is too easy? Oh wait...sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Boise State's SOS is actually lower than WVU's.

10/31/06   |   cubhawk57

Pat wrote:
How come Boise State doesn't count? Is it because their schedule is too easy? Oh wait...sounds familiar, doesn't it?

  NOOO, actually because they're considered a mid-major. That's why they made the rules changes they did the last couple of years. IF they finish undefeated and in the Top 12 of the BCS standings, they get a BCS bid. They would never get a title shot because of their schedule strength. The computers and pollsters would never rank them high enough.

10/31/06   |   Pat   |   5134 respect

cubhawk57 wrote:
  Very good points Jared. But it could be all for nothing if Louisville beats them and THEY finish undefeated. You going to defend their right for a shot at the title then? Not trying to be funny, I'm just curious how you feel about Louisville. My opionion is if there are two undefeateds at the end of the year, they should play for the title. Boise St. doesn't count, although I will say that should they go undefeated, they deserve a BCS bowl and that's why the "extra" was added.

How come Boise State doesn't count? Is it because their schedule is too easy? Oh wait...sounds familiar, doesn't it?

10/31/06   |   cubhawk57

  Very good points Jared. But it could be all for nothing if Louisville beats them and THEY finish undefeated. You going to defend their right for a shot at the title then? Not trying to be funny, I'm just curious how you feel about Louisville. My opionion is if there are two undefeateds at the end of the year, they should play for the title. Boise St. doesn't count, although I will say that should they go undefeated, they deserve a BCS bowl and that's why the "extra" was added.

10/31/06   |   soonerfan150

Jared wrote:

I have two points:

 

1) Basically the same WVU team beat up on SEC "cream of the crop" UGA last year.

 

2) WVU is better than OkSt, which beat USC, and TexasTech, which almost beat Texas.

 

Do I think they are better than Ohio St?  No.  Michigan...well, WVU is better coached but I would say probably not.  The others...maybe to probably YES.

 

My question to everyone is this:  What have they done for you all to think that they are not as good as the pre-mentioned teams?  Remember, schedules are slated years in advance so I think that is a moot point now that we have beat it to death.

You have made very good points Jared.

10/30/06   |   Jared

soonerfan150 wrote:

Who have WVU played so far? Maryland is the best and that is it. Jared, yes, they played Maryland, but not Syracuse and not Miss. St., they have only beat UAB and Jacksonville St. They still haven't played anyone and probably won't for the rest of the year. Put WVU in the SEC and they will get crushed by Florida, LSU, Auburn, and probably Arkansas. Put them against Texas, USC. They haven't gotten my vote yet. Not until they get a win against a REAL powerhouse. (That doesn't include Louisville and Rutgers) If they can go in and win the national championship against, Ohio St., Michigan, USC, or Texas. Than I will say they have a #1 team. That is the only time.

 

I have two points:

 

1) Basically the same WVU team beat up on SEC "cream of the crop" UGA last year.

 

2) WVU is better than OkSt, which beat USC, and TexasTech, which almost beat Texas.

 

Do I think they are better than Ohio St?  No.  Michigan...well, WVU is better coached but I would say probably not.  The others...maybe to probably YES.

 

My question to everyone is this:  What have they done for you all to think that they are not as good as the pre-mentioned teams?  Remember, schedules are slated years in advance so I think that is a moot point now that we have beat it to death.

10/25/06   |   soonerfan150

Who have WVU played so far? Maryland is the best and that is it. Jared, yes, they played Maryland, but not Syracuse and not Miss. St., they have only beat UAB and Jacksonville St. They still haven't played anyone and probably won't for the rest of the year. Put WVU in the SEC and they will get crushed by Florida, LSU, Auburn, and probably Arkansas. Put them against Texas, USC. They haven't gotten my vote yet. Not until they get a win against a REAL powerhouse. (That doesn't include Louisville and Rutgers) If they can go in and win the national championship against, Ohio St., Michigan, USC, or Texas. Than I will say they have a #1 team. That is the only time.

 

10/25/06   |   Jared

Ryan wrote:
Hey Jared....can the Hokies take out the Tigers tomorrow night?

I hate to say this but I'm not sure if anyone in the ACC can beat the Tigers right now.  My Hokies are struggling offensively.  If the defense does its job and the O puts some points on the board...I guess anything can happen.

10/25/06   |   Ryan   |   153 respect

Jared wrote:
Thanks Ty.  I have disliked WVU for years and laughed wholeheartedly when my Hokies beat them last year...but enough is enough.  Great talent, great coach, and a diehard fan base makes them a legit contender.  Yes, they must win out to be considered but it seems like everyone has to these days...doesn't it?

Hey Jared....can the Hokies take out the Tigers tomorrow night?

10/25/06   |   Jared

wrote:
Nice post, Jared.  As a non-fan, you bring some credibility to the argument.

Thanks Ty.  I have disliked WVU for years and laughed wholeheartedly when my Hokies beat them last year...but enough is enough.  Great talent, great coach, and a diehard fan base makes them a legit contender.  Yes, they must win out to be considered but it seems like everyone has to these days...doesn't it?

10/25/06   |   Ryan   |   153 respect

CriticalFanatic wrote:
I go back and forth with West Virginia.

One side screams West Virginia has played no one, and quite a few teams would be undefeated right now. Just look at Rutgers.

How-EVAH ... West Virginia should be given some credence to pummeling Georgia in the Sugar Bowl last year in their own backyard. This year's team is essentially the very same lineup ... and most likely better. Furthermore, West Virginia has systematically diced up all opponents thus far. I've been waiting all season to jump on them after a close victory but it just hasn't happened. So with that being said, I'm a buyer in West Virginia. Do I think they could beat Florida? No. Ohio State? No. Notre Dame? Yes and it wouldn't be close.

We'll find out more about WV when they play Louisville, but even so ... how good is Louisville? You can tell I'm going back and forth but ultimately should WV go undefeated they certainly DESERVE a chance in the National Title Game. But I have no problem if a 1-loss Michigan, Texas, Auburn, Florida get the invite instead.

Oh my how the times have changed!!

 

I can definitely see some of the points about WVU  (don't get me wrong - they're GOOD), but I'm still not ready to give them #1 or #2 in the BCS.

10/25/06   |   CriticalFanatic

I go back and forth with West Virginia.

One side screams West Virginia has played no one, and quite a few teams would be undefeated right now. Just look at Rutgers.

How-EVAH ... West Virginia should be given some credence to pummeling Georgia in the Sugar Bowl last year in their own backyard. This year's team is essentially the very same lineup ... and most likely better. Furthermore, West Virginia has systematically diced up all opponents thus far. I've been waiting all season to jump on them after a close victory but it just hasn't happened. So with that being said, I'm a buyer in West Virginia. Do I think they could beat Florida? No. Ohio State? No. Notre Dame? Yes and it wouldn't be close.

We'll find out more about WV when they play Louisville, but even so ... how good is Louisville? You can tell I'm going back and forth but ultimately should WV go undefeated they certainly DESERVE a chance in the National Title Game. But I have no problem if a 1-loss Michigan, Texas, Auburn, Florida get the invite instead.

10/25/06   |   Ryan   |   153 respect

I've watched a few WVU games but I still don't think that they deserve to get a national title shot.  They're a good team and they're fun to watch.  I don't think that makes them worthy of a title shot, though.   Somewhere along the line, we have to hold teams accountable for their schedule.  I know it's not WVU's fault that the Big (L)East fell appar.  But it's not Florida's fault or Texas' fault or Oregon's fault, etc...

 

They're going to have to deal with this problem.  I don't see the Big East being a power football conference anytime soon.  I think that in order for them to make up ground with the other biggies (SEC, Big 12, Big 10, and most of the time the PAC and ACC), they're going to have to be creative with their scheduling.  They can't rely on a power conference schedule to boost them up. 

 

As I look at their schedule, it's pretty uninspired.  I don't think you should punish teams that actively pursue a tough schedule (Oklahoma going to Oregon or Texas taking on Ohio State) by allowing West Virginia to take on Mississippi State and Eastern Washington.  I know the other teams have cream puffs on their schedule too, but (personally) I'm willing to overlook it a tad more when they actively take on the big boys outside of their conference.  Taking on Maryland doesn't compare to traveling to Notre Dame or Oregon. 

 

I'd venture to say that there are at least 10-12 schools that could make it through WVU's schedule undefeated.  I'm not willing to say that those 12 teams should be national title contenders, though.

 

Those are just my thoughts on it, though.  How does everyone else feel?