Notre Dame should be forced to join a conference

It's about time we do something about Notre Dame

1/8/13 in NCAAF   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

Jan 7, 2013; Miami, FL, USA; Notre Dame Fighting Irish linebacker Manti Te'o (5) reacts during the second half of the 2013 BCS Championship game against the Alabama Crimson Tide at Sun Life Stadium.   Mandatory Credit: Steve Mitchell-USA TODAY SportsLast night, Notre Dame got absolutely obliterated by Alabama in the BCS title game. Just like I said they would. More than once.

This should have come as a surprise to exactly no one.

No matter how anyone tries to hype up Notre Dame's regular season schedule, there's not a chance in hell that they actually proved that they deserved their #1 ranking.

They stumbled into the #1 spot by default, because great SEC football teams beat other great SEC football teams.

Alabama's only loss was to fellow SEC powerhouse Texas A&M.
Georgia's only losses were to Alabama and South Carolina, both from the SEC.
Texas A&M lost a couple nail-biters to fellow SEC schools Florida and LSU.
South Carolina's only losses were also to Florida and LSU.
Before losing their bowl games, Florida and LSU had only lost to SEC teams.

All 6 of those teams could be considered among the top 10 teams in the country. And they all had to play several games against each other, because they're in an elite conference loaded with talent.

Other teams in top conferences have stretches of 6 to 8 games in a row in which they have to play top level teams.

Then, if they're fortunate enough to have a successful season, they have to play a conference championship game, which essentially amounts to one additional game against an elite team.

Notre Dame, thanks to their independent status, doesn't have to worry about that.

They can schedule their annual cakewalks against service academies and their "rivalry" with fellow Catholic school Boston College. They can use their other "rivalry" game against USC to pad their strength of schedule, and hope that no one notices that USC finished the season unranked and was one of the most overrated teams in the country.

They can play close games against mediocre teams like Purdue, Pitt, BYU, and Michigan, and still manage to default their way into the the National Championship game.

Dec 1, 2012; Atlanta, GA, USA; Alabama Crimson Tide defensive back Nick Perry (27) holds up the SEC sign after winning the 2012 SEC Championship game against the Georgia Bulldogs at the Georgia Dome. Alabama won 32-28. Mandatory Credit: Paul Abell-USA TODAY SportsLet's ignore the fact that Georgia and Alabama were both far better teams, but had to play each other in the SEC Championship, essentially eliminating one of them.

If there was an 8-team playoff, Notre Dame would have gotten rolled by the #8 team, who would have been South Carolina, the 4th-best SEC team.

If you look at Notre Dame's recent bowl history, it's clear that they've benefited from their delusional (but large) fan base, and the fact that they haven't needed to actually win a conference to get into a BCS bowl.

Notre Dame has lost 11 of their last 13 bowl games.

They're 0-4 in BCS bowls (including last night's championship), and lost those 4 games by a combined score of 158-57.

That's right. Notre Dame has lost their 4 BCS bowl games by an average of 25 points per game.

Is there any doubt that they're being overrated and overhyped coming into bowl games?


The solution:

The NCAA should ban Notre Dame (and every other independent team, for fairness' sake) from bowl games until they join a conference.

It's absolutely insane that Notre Dame gets to play by a completely different set of rules than every other team, but still gets treated as if their undefeated record is just as impressive as another undefeated team.

Until the Irish have to go through a legitimate conference schedule and win a conference championship game, they'll continue to be placed in bowl games that they don't deserve. They'll continue to get blown out by teams that earned their bowl bid the hard way, and they'll steal BCS spots from far more deserving teams who had far more difficult roads to the postseason.

Until the NCAA forces Notre Dame's hand, fans will continue to suffer through these atrocities. It's simply not right, and fans deserve better.
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6/4/13   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

andrewbmoser wrote:
The funny thing is that Notre Dame isn't playing by some special set of rules... any school can choose to leave their conference and be independent. It's just that Notre Dame is the only independent school who has done well enough against a sufficiently difficult schedule to reach a BCS bowl. 

Their record in BCS bowls should make it very clear to you that they didn't actually deserve to be in any of them. When a team consistently gets blown out in BCS bowl games, it means their standards should be changed.

5/1/13   |   andrewbmoser

The funny thing is that Notre Dame isn't playing by some special set of rules... any school can choose to leave their conference and be independent. It's just that Notre Dame is the only independent school who has done well enough against a sufficiently difficult schedule to reach a BCS bowl. 

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
What happened to Oregon's big time offense against Stanford this year, or against Auburn in the title game? Oregon has a habit for coming up short in certain games.

Oregon isn't on the same planet as Alabama when it comes to defense. With that said, Alabama wasn't supposed to be this good this year. They sent 4 starters on defense to the NFL. And I never said blowout. I asked what happened to Oregon's explosive offense in that game? Reading is key before replying.

1/9/13   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

beerstudk wrote:
You still haven't said why it's okay for Alabama to play in a BCS game without winning the SEC West, but not okay for Notre Dame because they don't play in a conference.  What's the point of making Notre Dame join a conference and win it to play in BCS games if were just going to let another school into BCS games without even being eligeble for thier conference championship?

Because Alabama "losing" the SEC west was due to them losing ONE game to the #1 team in the country, at the time.

Once upon a time, I subscribed to your current line of reasoning. But then, thanks to the consistent dominance of the SEC, I've realized that it's possible for the top 2 teams to come from the same conference.

The problem with Notre Dame is that they can schedule whomever they please, and they are continuously placed in bowls they don't belong in. You can't say that about SEC teams. Notre Dame has proven it 11 times in the past 13 years, and especially in BCS bowls.

Not sure what's so complicated about that.

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
A team on a downward slide? Are you insane? LSU was unbeaten last year until the title game. How do you even justify your thought process? News flash: turnover are part of the game, and SEC schools have a propensity for forcing them in big games.

LSU trailed Georgia in the SEC championship game 10-0 and then embarrassed them 42-10. How is that getting progressively worse? Oh, so now that you played division X college football you're an expert. I get to talk to college football hall of famer Don McPherson every saturday during the season at my job. Who do you talk to at your job at Walmart?

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

Pat wrote:
The difference is...

Alabama got in because they're Alabama... and then they shut out their opponent and won 21-0.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, got in because they're Notre Dame and proceeded to get blown out.

You still haven't said why it's okay for Alabama to play in a BCS game without winning the SEC West, but not okay for Notre Dame because they don't play in a conference.  What's the point of making Notre Dame join a conference and win it to play in BCS games if were just going to let another school into BCS games without even being eligeble for thier conference championship?

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
What happened to Oregon's big time offense against Stanford this year, or against Auburn in the title game? Oregon has a habit for coming up short in certain games.

What happened to Oregon this year was the same thing that happened to Alabama's 'Big Time' defense against Texas A&M.... they underperformed.

And last time I checked, Auburn won on a last second field goal which hardly makes it a blowout or a "manhandling".  If you want to insult me you need to come up with better material homie.....

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
A team on a downward slide? Are you insane? LSU was unbeaten last year until the title game. How do you even justify your thought process? News flash: turnover are part of the game, and SEC schools have a propensity for forcing them in big games.

I justify my thinking because I watch a lot of the games, LSU started of great but got progressivly worse as the season went on.  Take the fact that they beat Alabama on the road, then lost to Alabama 21-0 at a neutral site a few weeks later.

Thank you Sherlock, I wasn't aware that turnovers are part of the game.  In all my years of playing, which included college ball, I was never aware that turnovers were part of football.  Thank you for clearing that up for me.

But again, did you watch the LSU-Oregon game?  Thomas DROPPED two punts.  It wasn't caused by anything other than an 18 year old kid getting a case of the yips at the wrong time.

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
You do know Oregon had 2 losses and were manhandled by LSU? Based on this year's National Championship game, do not think for a second going forward that a one loss team from a BCS conference can't jump unbeaten Notre Dame. They just lost all credibility with that embarrassing loss. However, this will all be moot when Notre Dame loses 2 games next year. 

What happened to Oregon's big time offense against Stanford this year, or against Auburn in the title game? Oregon has a habit for coming up short in certain games.

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
You do know Oregon had 2 losses and were manhandled by LSU? Based on this year's National Championship game, do not think for a second going forward that a one loss team from a BCS conference can't jump unbeaten Notre Dame. They just lost all credibility with that embarrassing loss. However, this will all be moot when Notre Dame loses 2 games next year. 

A team on a downward slide? Are you insane? LSU was unbeaten last year until the title game. How do you even justify your thought process? News flash: turnover are part of the game, and SEC schools have a propensity for forcing them in big games.

1/9/13   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

beerstudk wrote:
That's BS, there was a one loss Oklahoma State team that won their conference, which makes them arguably better than Alabama in 2011.  They got into that game because they're Alabama, just like Notre Dame got to #1 in part because they're Notre Dame.

Just admit, the system is a joke and we need a playoff.  That would end all of this back and forth 'my team is better than your team' crap and let teams settle things on the field.

The difference is...

Alabama got in because they're Alabama... and then they shut out their opponent and won 21-0.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, got in because they're Notre Dame and proceeded to get blown out.

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

Pat wrote:
Because they, along with the team that DID win their conference were clearly the best teams in the country.

One could make a similar case this year for ND based on this year's schedule alone. BUT... when you look at their history in BCS (and other) bowl games, it's clear that they consistently are placed in bowls that are out of their league. That's why they keep getting wrecked.

That's BS, there was a one loss Oklahoma State team that won their conference, which makes them arguably better than Alabama in 2011.  They got into that game because they're Alabama, just like Notre Dame got to #1 in part because they're Notre Dame.

Just admit, the system is a joke and we need a playoff.  That would end all of this back and forth 'my team is better than your team' crap and let teams settle things on the field.

1/9/13   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

beerstudk wrote:
Why won't you tell me why it's okay for 'Bama in 2011 to play in the Championship without even winning the SEC West, but not for Notre Dame in 2012 because they don't play in a conference? Don't you realize that this makes your conference argument invalid?

Because they, along with the team that DID win their conference were clearly the best teams in the country.

One could make a similar case this year for ND based on this year's schedule alone. BUT... when you look at their history in BCS (and other) bowl games, it's clear that they consistently are placed in bowls that are out of their league. That's why they keep getting wrecked.

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
You do know Oregon had 2 losses and were manhandled by LSU? Based on this year's National Championship game, do not think for a second going forward that a one loss team from a BCS conference can't jump unbeaten Notre Dame. They just lost all credibility with that embarrassing loss. However, this will all be moot when Notre Dame loses 2 games next year. 

Oregon was a one loss team this year, so was K-State, and neither of them jumped Notre Dame.  Just sayin'.

Also, if you think that LSU 'manhandled' Oregon you obviously didn't watch the game.  LSU won because of turnovers committed by a Freshman De'Anthony Thomas playing in his first game ever outside of LA and I guarrantee you that Oregon would have destroyed LSU in a bowl game last year, but east coast bias wouldn't give us the rematch that everyone outside of the south wanted to see.  Instead we got to see a team on a downward slide (LSU) play a team that didn't even win it's sub-conference (Alabama).  That's the type of sh!t that's a joke about college football

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
Unless you're gonna tell me that the Pac 12 is a better conference and LSU beating Oregon by 13, while needing OT and about 5 missed FG's to win at Alabama doesn't matter. 

Why won't you tell me why it's okay for 'Bama in 2011 to play in the Championship without even winning the SEC West, but not for Notre Dame in 2012 because they don't play in a conference? Don't you realize that this makes your conference argument invalid?

1/9/13   |   Yosefederation   |   111 respect

beerstudk wrote:
Can I buy weed from you dude?  The BCS only gives a sh!t about one thing and one thing only: MONEY!!!  Like them or not, Notre Dame has an a$$ton of fans spread out all over the country, meaning in a BCS game they can bring the M-O-N-E-Y.

Furthermore, the Irish deserved to be in the bowl last night more than Alabama did in 2011.  They didn't even win the SEC-West in 2011, yet they were put in the Championship game ahead of Oregon because of $$$$.

What we need is a PLAYOFF.... not more stupid rules involving Notre Dame.  Also, Notre Dame got to #1 because Oregon (#1 at the time) and K-State (#2 at the time) both lost on the same week.... it had nothing to do with Texas A&M beating 'Bama a week earlier.

Just like Dan Patrick said on his show today, If Bama qb puts up 30td passes vs. 3 ints. for a Notre Dame team, people would be saying Johnny who for this years Heisman winner.

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

beerstudk wrote:
You forget that there was an Oregon team that beat an Andrew Luck led Stanford and happened to win the Pac-12... they should have been in the Championship instead of an Alabama team simply because they won their conference.  You just made the 'Notre Dame doesn't belong in the Championship because they didn't win a conference' shpeil invalid.... again I ask, why is it okay for Alabama to play in the BCS Championship without even winning the SEC-West in 2011 and not okay for Notre Dame to play in the same game in 2012 when they don't play in a conference?

Unless you're gonna tell me that the Pac 12 is a better conference and LSU beating Oregon by 13, while needing OT and about 5 missed FG's to win at Alabama doesn't matter. 

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

beerstudk wrote:
You forget that there was an Oregon team that beat an Andrew Luck led Stanford and happened to win the Pac-12... they should have been in the Championship instead of an Alabama team simply because they won their conference.  You just made the 'Notre Dame doesn't belong in the Championship because they didn't win a conference' shpeil invalid.... again I ask, why is it okay for Alabama to play in the BCS Championship without even winning the SEC-West in 2011 and not okay for Notre Dame to play in the same game in 2012 when they don't play in a conference?

You do know Oregon had 2 losses and were manhandled by LSU? Based on this year's National Championship game, do not think for a second going forward that a one loss team from a BCS conference can't jump unbeaten Notre Dame. They just lost all credibility with that embarrassing loss. However, this will all be moot when Notre Dame loses 2 games next year. 

1/9/13   |   patclarkson888   |   2 respect

ND being in the title game had nothing to do with the SEC beating up on each other, and everything to do with Oregon and Kansas State both losing. And those two teams weren't even mentioned in the column.

1/9/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

MortonsLaw wrote:
Alabama's only loss was at home in OT to an unbeaten LSU team. Oklahoma state lost as a 25 favorite at Iowa State. They all know who the best conference in the world is. LSU would've beaten OK State 42-10. Hell, Stanford should've beaten OK State if the head coach wasn't so conservative and settled for a FG with Andrew Luck on the field. OK State was probably the 5th best team in the country, 

You forget that there was an Oregon team that beat an Andrew Luck led Stanford and happened to win the Pac-12... they should have been in the Championship instead of an Alabama team simply because they won their conference.  You just made the 'Notre Dame doesn't belong in the Championship because they didn't win a conference' shpeil invalid.... again I ask, why is it okay for Alabama to play in the BCS Championship without even winning the SEC-West in 2011 and not okay for Notre Dame to play in the same game in 2012 when they don't play in a conference?

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

beerstudk wrote:
How about you explain how Alabama deserves to play in the BCS championship in 2011 without winning their sub-conference in 2011 while Notre Dame doesn't deserve to play in the BCS Championship in 2012 when they go undefeated.... I'd love to hear what you have to say about that.............

Alabama's only loss was at home in OT to an unbeaten LSU team. Oklahoma state lost as a 25 favorite at Iowa State. They all know who the best conference in the world is. LSU would've beaten OK State 42-10. Hell, Stanford should've beaten OK State if the head coach wasn't so conservative and settled for a FG with Andrew Luck on the field. OK State was probably the 5th best team in the country, 

1/9/13   |   MortonsLaw   |   156 respect

Hey Pat, AMEN regarding your rant about how much of a joke Notre Dame was. I don't think they can be forced into any conference. However, what can happen in the new playoff format come 2014, is the possibility of a one loss team jumping them for a chance to be one of the four teams, should they be unbeaten again. Oklahoma got manhandled by A&M, and Ole Miss destroyed a Pitt team that nearly beat Notre Dame. I knew Bama was going to embarrass them. As I said on facebook, now all the bandwagon Irish fans can return to witness protection. 

1/8/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

Pat wrote:
I'm not saying Michigan was terrible... but how did they look against Alabama? That should have given people the hint that Notre Dame wasn't in Bama's league. That, and all the other games I mentioned.

How about you explain how Alabama deserves to play in the BCS championship in 2011 without winning their sub-conference in 2011 while Notre Dame doesn't deserve to play in the BCS Championship in 2012 when they go undefeated.... I'd love to hear what you have to say about that.............

1/8/13   |   Pat   |   5229 respect

gobigblue1960 wrote:
Meant to say that Mihigan was 11-2 in 2011, and in 2012 the lossses were to the teams I listed. Sorry, ths tablet is hard to type on at times. Damn arthritis!

I'm not saying Michigan was terrible... but how did they look against Alabama? That should have given people the hint that Notre Dame wasn't in Bama's league. That, and all the other games I mentioned.

1/8/13   |   gobigblue1960   |   4803 respect

Meant to say that Mihigan was 11-2 in 2011, and in 2012 the lossses were to the teams I listed. Sorry, ths tablet is hard to type on at times. Damn arthritis!

1/8/13   |   gobigblue1960   |   4803 respect

Notre Dame has always been afraid of conference play. They know they cannot win consistently in a conference. Oh, and Michgan isn't meiocre. The Wolverines were 11-2 in 2011 and lost to ND, Alabama(#1-#2),Ohio State(12-0), South Carolina(11-2), and Nebraska(Big Ten runner-up), all on the road.

Notre Dame  had opted out of the Michigan series after 2014 to play bad ACC teams.

Maybe the bad ACC is just the conference the Irish need.

Go Blue! 

1/8/13   |   Jess   |   34372 respect

Hmm, maybe it would be good idea to say if they don't join a conference, they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the BCS series? I don't know. I'm not as big on college football as most, but Notre Dame aside we all know the BCS is a mess. I agree with Kaleb - instead of making rules for Notre Dame specifically, let's revamp the entire system.

1/8/13   |   beerstudk   |   1538 respect

Can I buy weed from you dude?  The BCS only gives a sh!t about one thing and one thing only: MONEY!!!  Like them or not, Notre Dame has an a$$ton of fans spread out all over the country, meaning in a BCS game they can bring the M-O-N-E-Y.

Furthermore, the Irish deserved to be in the bowl last night more than Alabama did in 2011.  They didn't even win the SEC-West in 2011, yet they were put in the Championship game ahead of Oregon because of $$$$.

What we need is a PLAYOFF.... not more stupid rules involving Notre Dame.  Also, Notre Dame got to #1 because Oregon (#1 at the time) and K-State (#2 at the time) both lost on the same week.... it had nothing to do with Texas A&M beating 'Bama a week earlier.