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About the Author - CriticalFanatic
"The Cubs are starting to scare me"

Jason
Chicago, IL
Male 28 years old

About Me:
Somehow remain a passionate sports fan despite living and dying with the Chicago Cubs and Michigan State athletics. Born in California, grew up in Michigan and went to college at Miami U (Ohio). All of which have shaped my sports fandom. Also a featured blogger and editor of this fine website you might have heard about called FanIQ.
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Picking APart the Pollsters: Kentucky Did Beat Louisville, Right?
by CriticalFanatic
>7 days ago

Our weekly look at the individual AP Ballots is back again for this season. Who was the biggest homer? Who doesn't make any sense? Who actually (gasp!) deserves some credit?

This week's beef: Giving no credit to what happens on the field (Kentucky over Louisville); Moving South Florida up in the rankings after beating Idle State and Auburn losing at home to Miss State, and the usual silly homerism.

Scott Wolf (Los Angeles Daily News, CA) As usual, I head straight for this buffoon ballot each week to get into the proper mindset; he never disappoints. If I'm not mistaken, and feel free to correct me, Kentucky beat Louisville Saturday night. I swore that's what I watched. An even contest, but the better team came out on top. So explain to me why someone (Scott) would have Louisville ranked 18th and Kentucky nowhere to be seen? There's no point in games being played if we're just going to stick with preseason presumptions and fail to acknowledge real actual information on the field.

Jon Wilner (San Jose Mercury, Ca) One of many voters who moved the South Florida Bulls up several spots after holding Idle to zero points. I know they beat Auburn, and at the time it seemed impressive enough for Top 25 consideration, but now that Auburn also lost at home to Mississippi State shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Why not move the Bulldogs into the poll, too?

John Moredich (Tuscon Citizen, AZ) An always intriguing ballot provides a few curious selections, namely Texas A&M at 10, Arizona State at 12, Hawaii at 15 and of course, ranking Louisville but not Kentucky.

B.G. Brooks (Rocky Mountain News, CO) 23. Hawaii 24. Alabama 25. Arkansas. Haha. Isreal Gutierez (Miami Herald, FL) 23. Alabama 24. Arkansas 25. Hawaii. That's better.

Eric Hansen (South Bend Tribune, IN) Credit Eric for his willingness to drop Wisconsin down to 20 after two unimpressive wins.

Proud of the Home Team: Two Louisiana voters have LSU #1, Four California voters have USC #1. That should surprise no one.
 

Parrish Alford (NE Mississippi Daily) This may be the worst example yet for failing to acknowledge what happened on the field and not in the preseason magazines. Louisville 13th, Kentucky 24th. (*Scooby Doo Sound*)

Mike DeArmond (Kansas City Star) He'd like you to pay attention to the local team: Kansas 25th, the team he covers Missouri 15th (although I agree with that one).

Aditi Kinkhabwala (Berger Record, NJ) Can you tell this guy covers Rutgers and the Big East? West Virginia 4, Rutgers 9, South Florida 14, Louisville 17, Cincinnati 25.

Rodney McKissic (Buffalo News, NY) Wisconsin 6, Oklahoma 7? Even after the Badgers struggled to beat football powers UNLV and The Citadel. Florida State at 21?

Dave Goren (WXII-TV Greensboro, NC) In case you were curious, Dave went ahead and dropped Appalachian State out after having them 13th last week.

Mike Strain (Tulsa World) Would like you to pay attention to none other than Tulsa (25th).

Doug Doughty (Roanoke Times, VA) Still giving the nod to App St at 24, and while I thank Dough for noticing the Spartans (25) they're not among the best 25 teams in the country right now.

Chris Fowler (ESPN) Mr. Gameday doesn't need to convince us of his football knowledge, but just in case credit Fowler for keeping Arkansas at 15 and moving Alabama at 12. The Hogs are a good football team that lost to a better coached Tide.

There are plenty more examples of not ranking Kentucky and other questionable calls. Feel free to call them out below.
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353 days ago
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I'll be the first to admit that Wisconsin so far has looked like crap, but why is it so popular to move them down, but not Texas?  That win over TCU doesn't mean anything anymore, and they struggled mightily this past week too.  Obviously it has to do with the fact that prior to the past few years Wisconsin has no tradition and Texas is floating around in it.  If you're going to drop teams for being unimpressive at least be consistent with it.
 
353 days ago
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CF-  I know Louisville lost, but you honestly expect most voters to drop them from #6 to out of the poll?  This wasn't Appalachian State that they lost to, this is a decent Kentucky team. 

 

Upsets happen.  To say that just because Louisville lost to Kentucky, you have to rank Kentucky, AND they have to be higher than Louisville is a little much, especially when most of the country doesn't think Kentucky is one of the Top 25 programs right now.

 

I know I don't think they are, even if they did beat Louisville.  Are they explosive on offense, sure, especially against a swiss cheese defense, but I don't think that makes them necessarily a Top 25 team.  Louisville did score 40+ points on them.  That doesn't say much for the Wildcat defense either.  I still think that Louisville, despite its defensive woes, can be and is, one of the top 16 teams at least in the country.   And I voted that way in the Fan Poll. 

 

So, give a little break at least to people who don't want to vault Kentucky into the #15 spot in the country, just because of an upset.

 
353 days ago
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fxdirect wrote:

CF-  I know Louisville lost, but you honestly expect most voters to drop them from #6 to out of the poll?  This wasn't Appalachian State that they lost to, this is a decent Kentucky team. 

 

Upsets happen.  To say that just because Louisville lost to Kentucky, you have to rank Kentucky, AND they have to be higher than Louisville is a little much, especially when most of the country doesn't think Kentucky is one of the Top 25 programs right now.

 

I know I don't think they are, even if they did beat Louisville.  Are they explosive on offense, sure, especially against a swiss cheese defense, but I don't think that makes them necessarily a Top 25 team.  Louisville did score 40+ points on them.  That doesn't say much for the Wildcat defense either.  I still think that Louisville, despite its defensive woes, can be and is, one of the top 16 teams at least in the country.   And I voted that way in the Fan Poll. 

 

So, give a little break at least to people who don't want to vault Kentucky into the #15 spot in the country, just because of an upset.

At this point of the season you absolutely have to rank Kentucky higher. Why even play then if it doesn't matter in the polls?

I understand as the season goes along and if Kentucky was to lose another game or two that's not the case.
 
353 days ago
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(Edited 09/18/07 12:19PM by Seth)
fxdirect wrote:

CF-  I know Louisville lost, but you honestly expect most voters to drop them from #6 to out of the poll?  This wasn't Appalachian State that they lost to, this is a decent Kentucky team. 

 

Upsets happen.  To say that just because Louisville lost to Kentucky, you have to rank Kentucky, AND they have to be higher than Louisville is a little much, especially when most of the country doesn't think Kentucky is one of the Top 25 programs right now.

 

I know I don't think they are, even if they did beat Louisville.  Are they explosive on offense, sure, especially against a swiss cheese defense, but I don't think that makes them necessarily a Top 25 team.  Louisville did score 40+ points on them.  That doesn't say much for the Wildcat defense either.  I still think that Louisville, despite its defensive woes, can be and is, one of the top 16 teams at least in the country.   And I voted that way in the Fan Poll. 

 

So, give a little break at least to people who don't want to vault Kentucky into the #15 spot in the country, just because of an upset.

I look at this way. After giving up 40 some points to Middle Tennessee State, my opinion of Louisville is that this is not a top ten team. They may turn it around, right the defense, dominate the Big East, and so forth, but after 2 weeks I've already dropped Louisville from that lofty #6 spot. Then after losing to Kentucky they go down even more so it's not out of the realm of possibility that I have Louisville towards the bottom of the top 25. Then I can easily put Kentucky into the top 25 ahead of Louisville, but still towards the bottom without having to launch the Wildcats into like #15 or something which I'm not ready to do yet.
 
353 days ago
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Seth wrote:
I look at this way. After giving up 40 some points to Middle Tennessee State, my opinion of Louisville is that this is not a top ten team. They may turn it around, right the defense, dominate the Big East, and so forth, but after 2 weeks I've already dropped Louisville from that lofty #6 spot. Then after losing to Kentucky they go down even more so it's not out of the realm of possibility that I have Louisville towards the bottom of the top 25. Then I can easily put Kentucky into the top 25 ahead of Louisville, but still towards the bottom without having to launch the Wildcats into like #15 or something which I'm not ready to do yet.

But with all of the other upsets occurring this year, are you willing to say that there are 20-some teams which are better than Louisville, even though the Cardinals have one loss?

 

I know there are about 28 teams that currently are undefeated in D-1A.  But can you say that Indiana, or Purdue, or Kansas is better than Louisville?  That means that Louisville has to at least be ranked...   Connecticut, Cincinnati, and Michigan State don't look as though they are better, yet.  Tulsa, or Air Force?  Probably not.  That probably, at the lowest puts Louisville to #20, not counting teams with one loss like Virginia Tech and Arkansas, who are both probably better.

 

Are you willing to put a Kentucky into the mix with the other 19 unbeatens and a one-loss Arkansas, and Virginia Tech?  That is how I look at it.  And no, I am not ready to do that.  I would at least rank Purdue or Michigan State ahead of the Wildcats.  And other one loss teams like a Boise State or a Washington would still get my vote right now before I would consider unbeaten Kentucky.

 

If Kentucky can go to Arkansas this week and win, maybe that will change my opinion, but just upsetting Louisville, in Lexington, is not enough yet for me to think that they are in that Top 20 caliber.

 
353 days ago
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I'll be the first to admit that Wisconsin so far has looked like crap, but why is it so popular to move them down, but not Texas?  That win over TCU doesn't mean anything anymore, and they struggled mightily this past week too.  Obviously it has to do with the fact that prior to the past few years Wisconsin has no tradition and Texas is floating around in it.  If you're going to drop teams for being unimpressive at least be consistent with it.
 
353 days ago
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fxdirect wrote:

But with all of the other upsets occurring this year, are you willing to say that there are 20-some teams which are better than Louisville, even though the Cardinals have one loss?

 

I know there are about 28 teams that currently are undefeated in D-1A.  But can you say that Indiana, or Purdue, or Kansas is better than Louisville?  That means that Louisville has to at least be ranked...   Connecticut, Cincinnati, and Michigan State don't look as though they are better, yet.  Tulsa, or Air Force?  Probably not.  That probably, at the lowest puts Louisville to #20, not counting teams with one loss like Virginia Tech and Arkansas, who are both probably better.

 

Are you willing to put a Kentucky into the mix with the other 19 unbeatens and a one-loss Arkansas, and Virginia Tech?  That is how I look at it.  And no, I am not ready to do that.  I would at least rank Purdue or Michigan State ahead of the Wildcats.  And other one loss teams like a Boise State or a Washington would still get my vote right now before I would consider unbeaten Kentucky.

 

If Kentucky can go to Arkansas this week and win, maybe that will change my opinion, but just upsetting Louisville, in Lexington, is not enough yet for me to think that they are in that Top 20 caliber.

Louisville around 20 is fine with me, and I can be ok with Kentucky at 19 right now. It's only 3 weeks in and the polls will keep changing. I have no problem making changes based off more than just the last weeks results which I think too many pollsters do. My guess is that Kentucky loses next week (and a few more after that) and is out of any poll and there is no longer a discussion about Louisville (who will keep winning for awhile, when's that WVU game?) being ranked higher.

 

I like seeing the polls change week to week based more than just if they won or lost. For example Texas started around #6/7 and still is even though they haven't played like it, but they are 3-0 so the pollsters won't drop them because they didn't lose, and there are teams that are 3-0 that I see no problem putting ahead of them at least until Texas shows they are the better team. There just isn't enough fluidity in the polls.

 
353 days ago
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kantwistaye wrote:
I'll be the first to admit that Wisconsin so far has looked like crap, but why is it so popular to move them down, but not Texas?  That win over TCU doesn't mean anything anymore, and they struggled mightily this past week too.  Obviously it has to do with the fact that prior to the past few years Wisconsin has no tradition and Texas is floating around in it.  If you're going to drop teams for being unimpressive at least be consistent with it.
This is might biggest pet peeve with pollsters and the use of preseason polls to bias their voting.
 
353 days ago
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Seth wrote:

Louisville around 20 is fine with me, and I can be ok with Kentucky at 19 right now. It's only 3 weeks in and the polls will keep changing. I have no problem making changes based off more than just the last weeks results which I think too many pollsters do. My guess is that Kentucky loses next week (and a few more after that) and is out of any poll and there is no longer a discussion about Louisville (who will keep winning for awhile, when's that WVU game?) being ranked higher.

 

I like seeing the polls change week to week based more than just if they won or lost. For example Texas started around #6/7 and still is even though they haven't played like it, but they are 3-0 so the pollsters won't drop them because they didn't lose, and there are teams that are 3-0 that I see no problem putting ahead of them at least until Texas shows they are the better team. There just isn't enough fluidity in the polls.

I agree the polls need to be more fluid, and I have been dropping teams like Texas and Wisconsin for inconsistent wins. 

 

Last season, I had Michigan at #1 for most of the year, mostly because Ohio State kept having some close wins (which we later saw could burn them).   I was not adverse to putting a team lower in the polls based on a bad performance.

 

This year has been extremely tough the first three weeks.  Maybe it is the number of upsets based on the original rankings.  Maybe it is the inconsistent play that we are still seeing from some teams after 3 weeks, and maybe it is the poor scheduling that a lot of the teams have done in order to get their 12th game.   I just dread looking at this poll each week because I think that in recent memory (at least in the last 5 years since I have been covering college football with more than a passing glance), this is by far the hardest crop of teams to effectively rate.

 

Maybe that will get better with more conference games coming up, but right now, I want to throw my hands up when I get past #12.  For the most part, that is why I feel it is unfair to some of these guys for not ranking a Kentucky.  Heck, I haven't ranked South Carolina yet.

 
353 days ago
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I think South Carolina at #12 is a little high. Hopefully they prove me wrong on the road at LSU. I ain't holding my breath though.
 
353 days ago
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CriticalFanatic wrote:
At this point of the season you absolutely have to rank Kentucky higher. Why even play then if it doesn't matter in the polls?

I understand as the season goes along and if Kentucky was to lose another game or two that's not the case.
I agree, as of what has happened so far UK should be ahead of L'ville. L'ville couldn't stop the local high school team on defense.
 
353 days ago
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Here is my only problem with your column: "An even contest, but the better team came out on top."  Do you really think Kentucky is a better team?  They got incredibly lucky with 30 seconds left in a game that they should have lost.  Louisville's defense is a mess right now, but I'd still take that defense over Kentucky any day.  As soon as the UofL coaching staff gets the kids in line, they will improve dramatically.  Kentucky is good, and may deserve to be in the Top 25, but they are not a better team.  If that game is played at Louisville or on a neutral site... Louisville wins.

UK will likely finish the season 5-7. 
 
350 days ago
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I wanted to revisit this...

 

I was thinking about it today, at work , and yes, on the surface, it makes sense to rank the team that won over the team they beat. However, you need to be voting for the team that is better to be higher in the rankings. Two teams that you consider evenly matched, yes, rank the winner higher. In the case of UL-UK, one could reasonable argue that they are evenly matched. But in a case like Appy St. and Michigan, yes, Michiga