Maybe he should concentrate on gee. . . . . .  I don't know. . . . . . maybe  putting some points on the board, rather than feeling sorry for himself, or that pathetic display on Sunday.  Practice should be fun on Tuesday though. What a D-bag, talking about 'Respect' have some respect for yourself & keep your opponent to 21 pts next week.  

my problem is why are they going to it on 4th and 1 at the 3.  kick the FG a-holes!!

They won't keep that up all year without regretting it.  I can guarantee that.

Totally agree w/u on that.

I just look at their opponents for this Sunday, leading by not nearly as much on the Panthers we saw Jim Sorgi and Kenton Kieth and no stretching the field. School in the summer, school in the summer...

Before everyone gets all up in arms, consider the fact that if the Redskins stopped them on that ONE PLAY, the Pats would have walked away with ZERO points on that drive. The Patriots gave up the chance at a guaranteed 3 points, and gave the Redskins a chance to hold them to none at all. And the Redskins blew it. And somehow that's the Patriots' fault? Are the Redskins not an NFL team anymore or something?

   Here's the thing, they didn't give up the chance to get a "guaranteed 3 points ". You're just plain foolish if you believe that they weren't trying to run up the score. All they had to do is kick that field goal take their 3 points and go on about there business and the outrage isn't nearly as bad as it is today. That's why they have a kicker.

    What indication did you get during that game that they were just trying to win? Was it when they left Tom Brady in when the game was well out of hand? Was it throwing go routes to Randy Moss when the game was out of hand? Was it going for it on down when the game is out of hand? 

    I understand that on somedays everything you call works but when you're up by as much as they were as late as they were the only thing you should be calling is a dive and that's it. I know this may not make sense to you now because you are a Pats fan but I'm almost certain that a majority of the other people around here would agree with me.  

Hoodie needs to realize that in today's NFL, teams that are great one year can be dreck the next. Even if he moves on, there will be some long memories and some people just itching to give the Patriots a royal beatdown.

I'm not saying I don't see your point. But the bottom line is, the Patriots didn't embarrass the Redskins. The Redskins embarrassed themselves.

Every year, the "best" team always seems to stumble at some point. By endorsing this relentless mentality, he's setting themselves up to succeed. This is a team that never gives up, whether up or down, and they are proving to themselves that they are never out of a game, and no one in this league can come close to them at their best.

Although some of these teams might not enjoy it, this is a Patriots team that isn't going to beat themselves, and will push everyone, all the time.

So your logic is that by them acting like jerks in week 8, they won't stumble in week 15? I don't see how going for it on 4th down when your up by a million points means you won't beat yourself later in the year? More practice time?

This is just a big F U to the league and trying to play for records.

All they would have to do is put Cassel in there in the 4th quarter. Then when they score some more points, there will be a lot less complaining. (It'll still happen, but not like it is now).

its Bill Belichek trying to say F-U to the NFL.  Really, find me information on teams going for it in that situation. my guess is 99% of teams would kick a FG there. I can understand when you are on the 40 with 2 minutes and punting extends the game. This was on the 2 and they were trying to score again. You win by 40+ points and pass the ball 40+ times.   It doesn't make sense. I hope for Pats fans that Brady doesn't get rolled up by some defender pissed off they are running up the score.  I know if I was a defender, the second Brady leaves the pocket...I am hitting him harder than I can hit anyone.  And Moss is going to get the same thing. If he comes across the middle, I wouldn't be surprised if people start gunning for him and not the ball.  He's a cheater who pushes off consistantly.

 

I agree with Stink (sadly).ESPN

NO CLASS. I wouldn't be surprised to see teams start taking cheep shots on Brady or Moss or some other Patriot players as they run deep patterns just trying to run up the score.

We all say it's classless to do touchdown dances, or taunt players (standing over an injured player after a big hit), we say to act like you've been there before.  Those actions show the same lack of class that running up the score and going for it on 4th downs show.  There is something to be said about winning with class and the Patriots are not doing that this year.  If I was a head coach I would not shake Bills hand after something like that. 

This is the pros you show some respect, show some class."
This is the pros, take it like a man and dont let it happen

"This is the pros you show some respect, show some class."
This is the pros, take it like a man and dont let it happen
I see where he is coming from, but i disagree. Honestly, i hope they meet again and i doubt the story will be any different. I have respect for washington, but i don't think they need to be dissing another team because they won big and they kept going for the big gain. its football, fans like high scores and big hits. if a team has the chance to put up 50+ points, i doubt a team will give that up. they did all the work in the week for that sunday and there isnt really a great reason to do everything for just a quarter or a half. play the whole game, take the results. it doesnt matter if you lose 8-7 or 52-7, it wont make a change in the W/L collumn

I agree that going for it on fourth down is pretty stupid. But for god sakes Washington, STOP THEM BEFORE THEY GET DOWN THERE. Damn that supposedly have a top tier defensive backfield, have some balls man up and cover your guy or take your beat down like a man.

I am not defending Belichick for running up the score and going for it on 4th down, but the Redskins have no right to bitch and moan over something they could have prevented if they weren't playing like girls.

So how is that the Patriots fault. Dammit, this isn't High School or College, they get paid to do their job and if they can't do it, how can you blame the team that is smoking them.

Their job is to entertain, not disrespect each other.

They need to tone it down a little on offense when they are up by 40 some odd points. Thats about it. Its funny to be this guy just got destroyed and he starts complaining that the Patriots destroyed them too badly??? This is the funniest thing Ive seen in a while. If you don't want to lose so bad, be a better coach you jerkoff. Train your team better. Change the coaching staff. Do something. You're not completely powerless. Don't find some petty reason to point the magnifying glass away from your teams debacle of a performance because you don't like what it will reveal.

Now that being said, the Patriots could tone it down a little when they're on offense up by 35 or whatever atrocity Brady threw for in the first half.
Problem is they're usually up by this many by halftime so what are they supposed to do? Run their slow motion offense for 30 minutes a game?

I have Wes Welker on my fantasy team... I SAY GO FOR IT!!!

WRONG. I would like my teams to show some class and not show other teams up.  There are players, and coaches that I hate but I have respect for and then there are other coaches and player I have no respect for.  I used to have a lot of respect for Bill Belichick as a coach, now I have none.

Your right on there about the Redskins (players and coaches) not having a right to complain.  Take your whipping and go figure out a way to keep it from ever happening again.

I don't blame the fans for being angry though.  I didn't watch the game but it does sound Belichick was rubbing a little salt in the wounds.  Maybe he's trying to let everyone know that the can beat the tar out of everybody with or without the video taping.

My logic is that if they maintain a consistently aggressive attitude, and never let up at any point, no matter who the opponent, then they probably won't fall prey to the "trap game" that everyone eventually succumbs to, later in the season.

Can you honestly say that what they were doing was playing the game the right way??

Don't wine because RIGHT NOW the Pats are "treating the NFL like a varsity high school team", because if for even a game that was your team, who ever you are with, you would love the hell out of it.  Every second, every down and if it's 4th & 1 on the 3rd... YOU would want your team to go for it, if they had the slightest chance to make it.  No matter what the score is... FOOTBALL IS THE BEST TYPE OF WAR WE GOT!!!! So Boys & Girls, if you don't like that the Pats for this week are the shit, don't watch.  We'll see you when it's your turn, then we'll see how that game goes. 

Have you never heard "GO BIG OR GO HOME!" would you want someone working for you if they didn't give you 100% of thier ability every time they got up to do what they get paid big bucks for?  Come on, my specialty I dam well better out preform the other side.... every time with everything I got.  So why should a football player do any different.  We pay to watch our team win, so what if they happy to blow someone out the water one week, we want to see that!!! Wouldn't you, if your team did it?

than again, like i said before, they havent played the packers yet

Yeah but in college it shouldn't happen. In the NFL it doesn't matter, these guys are paid to do what they do, if they can't do their job then why should it be the other teams job to let them off the hook. Now, I agree there are better ways to keep your team sharp, but the only people who should be complaining are Patriots fans because Belichick is leaving the #1 players in there to risk injury. Not the Redskins guys girls.

Grow a pair, punch somebody in the face and make Belichick look like a fool for keeping his guys in there. QUIT BITCHING.

Hey.....let's stop all of this "let up in the 2nd half" talk.  I have Tom Brady & Wes Welker (whom I drafted before the season, might I add) on my fantasy team for goodness sakes!!!

 

Geez....

 

 

If it's any other duo in the league, I'm thinking they should chill out a little when they're up by four scores.  But not Brady.    (Just don't get him hurt!!!)

Grown men can't handle being scored on :(

normally thats not a problem

If you want to call it "running up the score", that's fine. Some would call it "playing hard the whole game". Belichick expects that of his team in a close game, and he expects it in a blowout. And if he continues to show that he will tolerate nothing but 100% effort throughout the entire game, it will lead to more victories.

It's obvious to me that no one defending the Pats has been on a 2-21 team (as I was).  It's one thing to get beat, it's another to know going in that your team has NO shot, it's far, far worse with things like this.  Now a FIVE touchdown AND one field goal lead with 10 minutes left is too dicey for Cassel and company to hold?  I'm waiting (and afraid) for someone to go Charles Martin and ruin Brady's career.

It made me sick to see the Patriots on fourth down.  Godfrey was right to call him out on it.

 

You didn't see the Colts pulling that crap on the Panthers this week.  Instead, Dungy put the second team in and ran out the clock.

  It's called running up the score because it is plain and simple, you say the it's playing hard the whole game going for it on 4th downs when you're up by 30 plus points when you're in field goal range is running up the score. I'm sorry to break it to you this way, but it's about time someone does. 

    For the rest of you Pats fans who said someone should take a shot at Brady and/or Moss when they're running up the score. I get the feeling you're just saying that, because as soon as someone does you guys will start throwing around terms like classless forgetting what your team did to deserve such a thing. 

There are things you say to the press and there are things you don't, I'm sure Joe Gibbs being an old school knows this as well.

Last Sunday was one of the moct classless showings of a pro team I've ever seen. What was Belichick trying to prove? Next time he tries that crap I hope someone snaps Brady's leg. Even as a neutral Bears fan, I was mad just watching... 

How disrespectful would it have been to run on the cheerleaders on to play them? C'mon enough of these 'unwritten rules'. Honestly...the League should introduce a towel to throw in if coaches wanted to call it quits. That's not disrespecting the players or paying fans is it? Some games could be over by the first quarter...

Being up in the first half isn't the issue here the way they were playing in the 4th quarter is the issue. I'm not expecting alot of Patriots fans to understand (so far none of  them seem to).

Everything will come back to haunt this organization, hopefully as soon as next week if (when) the Colts kick their butts in Indy.

I think the Patriots should lay off a little but more importantly I understand. The Patriots are pissed because they lost that 1st round pick and all the teams voted FOR it.

Yeah you say that proudly now but one of these days dont be surprised if they are "playing hard the whole game" and they have their starters in the 4th quarter up 50 points and someone big gets hurt, like a Brady or a Moss.

Wow Grown men crying!!!!!! Belichick is just proving a point. You get it yet!!!!!! Should Brady Kneel Down when they are up by 35 Points . Then that would be humilating to the Skins or whom ever they are playing. Stop them. You are a profesional sports team!!!!!!  If your guys did not give up when they are down that much then you might do alittle better>>>>> Go Pats     and every one else stop CRYING 

Some players feel taking the FG is unsportmanlike (guaranteed 3 points). Other's think kneeling with a full quarter to play is rubbing it in.  You can't make everyone happy in a lop-sided victory.

 

Brady stated that they would have run it more if Washington wasn't stacking the line. They decided throwing for first downs and working the clock was better than having Heath Evans (Maroney was sitting in the fourth quarter) get his head ripped off by running into a sea of angry Redskins.

 

Their Job is not to entertain it is to score points and tht is what they did.

A small, tiny minority of people think kneeling and kicking the FG instead of going for it is unsportsmanlike.

Kneeling at the START of the 4th quarter can be construed that way, yes. Kicking a field goal from the 45 yard line, OK that's a little crazy. But to kneel when there's only a minute or two left in the game and to kick the FG instead of running a 4th down scoring play, that's where I think it goes over the line.

That's why you run up the score... to get more victories? This is how you must have reacted in the 4th quarter Sunday then: "Oh YEAH, did you see that Matt Cassel scramble? That really helped put one in the W column for us...and that clutch grab by Wes Welker to add some insurance to a 45-0 lead?" I'm not great at math, but I'm pretty sure you get as much as a win in the standings when you win 38-7 as when you do 56-0.

 

You're mistaken, running up the score makes enemies, not wins. One day it'll bite them because the whole league has now seen what an a$$ Bill Belichick is on national TV. Hopefully the Colts were watching, and take no prisoners next week in Indy.

Same reason you don't steal bases with a 10 point lead in the 9th inning.

I have personaly seen the redsox blow a ten point lead, so what is you point. It is foot ball. Ben Utec from the Colts Was on ESPN and has no problem with how the pats are playing right now. He said this is pro football and you play hard. So if an actual Colt does not have a problem why do you all???????  Stop Crying and Go Pats

 

Clearly, you are lost and confused. Because your comment had nothing to do with what I said in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

I'm not saying one win counts more than another if they win by more, but I AM saying that if the Patriots are playing balls-to-the-wall on every play no matter what the score is, there's a lower chance that they'll get complacent and lose a game down the road.

This is why they play no holds bard soxfan90. Because they cant slow down or they could lose. You wrote "Hopefully the Colts were watching, and take no prisoners next week in Indy." I hope the Colts bring there A game so there are no excuses. But One thing I can Gaurantee is that the Pats will not give up if they are down by 35 like other teams do.  They will play hare till the end.  The Redskins folded and  they had nothing towards the end. It is there fault they lost by such a lagre margin.  Go Pats

Whine, Whine, Whine.
B*tch, B*tch, B*tch.
Moan, Moan, Moan.

There, do I now sound like (almost) every other non-Pat fan?

I have no problem with them going for it on 4th & 1. I have no problem with them leaving Brady in. I have no problem with them scoring 52 points. It's their own risk they are willing to take with football being such a physical sport, and if they keep going for it, it might end up catching up to them...so? What does that have to do with the other team? I do have a problem, however, with how sad of a defense Washington has. I just wish someone could make a Dan Hawkins-esque  "THIS IS PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL!" rant.

As Herm Edwards so eloquently puts it, "You play to win the game." You do NOT play just to get the amount of points you think you need. You do NOT play for entertainment purposes. You play because you are paid to do it, and if you just do "too good" of a job doing it, then too f-in bad for the rest of you. If you think it's just so damn classless that they score too many points on another team, here's a box of tissues for you.

What's interesting to me though, is to see all of these people that are crying that its so classless think that the only "fair" thing to do is go after one of Brady's legs, or knock Moss out till next year...yea, that makes a ton of sense. Forget trying to make your defenses better so it won't allow 400 yards and 50+ points every time they play; instead, go after a team you basically are already telling yourself is a whole lot better than you, and you have to intentionally injure one of them to have a chance..You guys, way to show true "class" on that one.

Just to add on a little bit more -- where exactly in the rulebooks does it state that one team is not allowed, under any circumstance, to win by "too many" points? Just because New England was so much better than Washington last Sunday, means they can't play offense for the entire last quarter of the game? They have to just run the ball three times, be sure to run down the clock, and punt it just so everybody else is happy? Please.

Yea, they have a kicker for a reason; but they have an offense for a reason too. To score points. Sorry if they are doing their job better than the rest of the NFL.

I understand why some players and fans as well would be angry.  If i was playin' D and a team was just relentless in thier offensive attack i would get pretty angry too.  If it was my favorite team getting routed that bad, same thing.  I was watching the game thinking, what are they doing?  I thought it was pretty foolish to have starters in as late as they were and playing the way they were.  Thats a real good way to get one of your star players hurt.  Either inadvertantly or by a defender gunning to take out some frustrations.  I promise you, a DE takes a hard late hit penalty on Brady near the end of the game and he's coming out of the game right now.  Sure the DE gets a fine and maybe a suspension, but he makes his point. 

 

That being said; if you don't want to get the score ran up on you, step up and play some D. 

I really don't care about this issue too much, but maybe the Patriots could play balls to the wall in the 4th quarter with Matt Cassel instead of Tom Brady. I believe that so far this season, with as dominant as New England has been, he has only 5 pass attempts. For a guy who was really just a backup in college, maybe he should get some actual NFL experience is these situations because they may not always be there.

Maybe if his 2nd pass attempt of the season didn't get run back for a TD, Cassel would be getting more reps.

So Matt Cassel's scramble really will help them down the road?

Yes because he was giving a million percent that's all that matters, sportsmanship doesn't. The sooner we realize this the better off we'll all be.  

Maybe Mr. "Belicheat", considering his history of using technology to his advantage, has developed a way of traveling time from week to week during a season where he can use the TD's his team scored in the 4th quarter of a blowout early in the season and transfer/convert them to another game later on in the season that is a lot closer. 

 

Is that what could possibly be meant by Pat saying that running up the score gives his team future advantages down the road? Sadly, this could be the only possible explaination for such poor sportsmanship. With that said, there's NO EXCUSE for what happened Sunday!

 

When the Patriots win the Super Bowl again, no one will be able to say that Belichick was wrong. You guys can take your sportsmanship and your "we'll let up on you if you suck really bad" attitude and keep losing games, like all of your teams are doing. Until the Patriots actually lose a game, I don't think you can really question Belichick's methods.

I'm not going to explain myself again, because apparently your mind isn't developed enough to comprehend what I've already said twice. But when the Patriots stomp the Colts on Sunday, maybe you'll understand a little better why Belichick demands 100% from his team on every play of the game.

Little known fact. Norv Turner actually only demands around 73% from his team on every play.

Then why is everyone saying that the Patriots should stop trying to score when they're up by a few TD's? That's not 100%.

A few is not 6 in the 4th quarter.

If Belichick's methods are so great, then why didn't he win with the Browns? If it weren't for Drew Bledsoe getting hurt within the first few weeks of the 01' season, the Beli-chick would be selling pizza right now.

Maybe not, but many of us were there when the Pats sucked. We watched Plunkett, Eason, Grogan, and even an early Bledsoe get hammered and go down. I think Brady is safer running up the score than any of those guys were. And I don't understand the venom aimed at the entire team. What do you expect the players to do, tell the coach they don't want to play hard late in the game because they might hurt someone's feelings? Geez!!

But he's not, and he has 3 Super Bowl rings, and is poised for another, so your point is moot. Thanks for saying absolutely nothing worthwhile.

 Bellichick and his boys are diminishing their own legacy????? By winning. Everyone is so quick to say The pats are running up the score and that is an opinion. Has Bill Told you that for a fact? You are very vague with you statement "Not saying for them to stop trying to score, just saying that they could practice what has been standard in the NFL since the merger" Whats that???  How do you think the patriots should handle a 30 point lead in the begining of the 3rd quarter?? What do you think they should do. Please answer that???

Or anyone out here What should the Pats do with a 30 Point lead in the begining of the 3rd quarter???

You're arguing whether or not they are running up the score.  That is how they are diminishing their legacy.  Whether or not its true it besides the point because the first thing that will come to mind when the general public thinks of the Patriots is the lack of class they showed. 

dont you know by now that BeliCHEAT is the ONLY NFL COACH that demands 100% from his players on every play.  Just ask ANY Patriots fan- they will tell you- I'm sure of it. LOL

If every team Demands 100% from there players then why dont they just shake hand and say good game. Not cry about the score. I am sure most teams Demand it , but that does not mean they get it. 

how about they send the cheerleaders out in shoulder pads?  Maybe the skins could have gotten a TD then?

thats a GREAT way to put it. Maybe YOU should teach the Patriots Coach HOW to shake the opponents hand after the game. that would be a great start, dont you think? Considering he has a HABIT of NOT shaking hands after the game.

My problem is not with the players.  Yes, they should go all-out on every play.  My problem IS with the coach for using the face of the team, if not the league, in such situations.  What can be gained for Brady by throwing a last-minute TD for a 40 point win?  Matt Cassell  could benefit in that spot.  Last time I checked, though, the NFL won't let anyone play while wearing a baseball cap.

Belichick hasn't won three Super Bowls, his players have. Any coach in America can win with the talent he's had (or when you know Peyton Manning's hand signals). Give him a team with just descent talent (like the Browns when he coached them) and that's when the real Beli-cheat comes out. If it weren't for a random 6th round quarterback who didn't even start for half of his college senior season bursting onto the scene in a way that no one foresaw, then forget the genius label, forget the three Super Bowls, and make your delivery within the next 5 minutes!

 

He's nothing more then the beneficary of an ideal situation for any coach. You call him a genius, I call it being in the right place at the right time.

The Chargers and the Colts certainly have talent, but the Colts can't stop the run and the Chargers secondary is vulnerable to big plays. As good as both are, they are still far inferior to the Pats from a talent standpoint position by position. I honestly can't even name one position on the Pats that is a weakness. They're probably the only team in NFL history that can make such a claim.

 

Belichick comes across as a "genius", but when you have a team with talent that can beat you in so many ways and that is capable of playing so many different styles, any game plan is a good game plan. 

The reason for the talent is not a fluke. either they find players that want to work in his system or they draft very well. They have let some good talent walk over the years because they thought they were asking for too much money. Belichick prepares better than anyother coach and his players beleive in him 100% and Give 100%. But you call that running up the score>>LOL  I guess he coaches the Newly vamped CELTICS TOO. They ran up the score on the Wizards tonite can you beleive they were actually trying to score in the 4th Period. They should have held the ball!!!!!

When you show me where I said that he won 3 Super Bowls all by himself, then I will consider this post to be relevant. However, what I was was "He has 3 Super Bowl rings, and is poised for another".

Please try to deny that Bill Belichick has 3 Super Bowl rings as a head coach in the NFL. I would love to see how ridiculous you can make yourself look, and how low you can possibly stoop. Go for it.

I like teams giving 100% too, but when you're up 52-0, give 100% effort into running the clock out. You think that handing the ball off and trying to plow over defenders in order to reach the 1st down marker doesn't require 100% effort from the guys up front?

 

So you know, since you obviously missed the Celtics/Wizards game tonight, the Wizards outscored the Celtics 26-24 in the 4th...hardly "running up the score", and enjoy it while it lasts...it's only a matter of time before the egos of the aging Allen, Garnett, and Pierce crash, and good luck trying to rebuild again with the hapless Danny Ainge in a few years when all three are past their primes. 

FYI, here are some late game numbers for the Patriots, in games in which some people might think they were running up the score.

2nd half scoring: Chargers 14, Patriots 14
2nd half scoring: Browns 17, Patriots 14
2nd half scoring: Dolphins 28, Patriots 7
4th quarter scoring: Patriots 14, Redskins 7

You just said the Celtics scored 24 points in the 4th quarter, but that's not running up the score. Extrapolate that out to a full game, and that's 96 points. That's a pretty normal offensive output. And in these games, the Patriots were putting out their normal offensive output too...maybe even less. And yet THEY are running up the score, and the Celtics aren't?

Stop being a two-faced hypocrite. You make no sense, and you make me sick.

He does have 3 super bowl rings...Belichick is the luckiest man in America. A lot, I mean a lot of things have gone right for him. A lot of coaches would've had as much success as he's had under those given circumstances and with that much talent. His label as a "genius" is just an east coast media creation (he can thank ESPN). I will however give him credit for hiring great coordinators (Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel)...maybe they are the real "geniuses" because Belichick hasn't won a title since their departures.

Yeah...and Weis and Crennel have had amazing success without Belichick, haven't they?

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen...and trust me...I've seen some pretty retarded ones. A lot from you in particular, even.

The sad part is that the part about Weis and Crennel may have been the SMARTEST thing you said in that post, and it was still pretty stupid.

All you ever do is put words into other people's mouth (tell me where I said that the Pats ran up the score against the Chargers, Browns or Dolphins?) and follow it up with a bush league personal insult, so therefore pretty much anything you say isn't worth anything. You're by far the biggest tool on this site, and I'm sorry if my unbiased/honest opinions bring your homerhead back down to earth where the gravitational forces are different to whatever the hell planet you live on...making you a little woozy (making you "sick").

 

The Patriots did put up a normal offensive output in all four of the games you mentioned, however "Running up the score" is an intent, not a fact, and when you go for it twice in the 4th quarter on 4th down through the air with your starters in and a 52-0 lead, then that intent is definately present. If the Pats would've scored "giving 100%" by running the ball with the backups in, no one would be complaining because the intent was to only milk the clock by piling up first downs, and in the process they just happened to score. I had no problem w/ the Celtics tonight because their intention was to milk the clock, they just happened to hit shots with the shotclock under 10.

You have spent weeks trying to say that Joe Crede was a better clutch hitter than David Ortiz, and now you want to call me a homer?

Dismissed. I'm through with you.

 Oh, give me a break. That was blatant running up the score. Belichick is playing this like it is college ball and you need to score and run it up to get vote so you can be ranked number #1. You would have never seen real coaches that dont need to cheat do this. I mean the coaches like Bill Walsh would have never done this. You flat out should put in your back ups when you are so far ahead in the game. This practice has been going on since the inception of football. You let your backups get experience. Also by doing this you dont jeopardize your teams chances with a hit on your QB that could end the QB season. Remember defensive players will remember these typos of situations. Defensive players dont like to be embarrassed. From old school football ( like Ronnie Lott ) to todays big hitters ( Merriman, Williams and so on ) , one good hit from these guys and your season is over. Which means NO SUPER BOWL. Belichicks legacy will be tainted from now on. He will never be considered in the likes of Walsh, Noll, Lombardi and so on.

Have you checked the standings lately? The Browns are 4-3 and in the hunt. Derek Anderson might be able to save Romeo Crennel in a similar but lesser way in which Beli-cheat was by Brady. Maybe Weis would be a success too if a random 2 star recruit turns his fortunes around the same way Brady turned around Belichick's.

 

Get my point? Players win championships (sorry Jerry Krause).

That thread was 2 years ago, and until Crede went down w/ a bad back and Big Papi won another championship, I had a leg to stand on...unlike you in this thread.

 You are right on the money.

I'm honestly a bit tired of this talk. Everyone acts like they're so damn concerned for Brady's health, and they act like that's why they don't think the Pats should run up the score.

Have any of you geniuses stopped to think that the Patriots' #1 back has spent a few games on the bench already with an injury, and their very productive #2 back is now out for the season.

All you people who think the Patriots should have stopped passing and started pounding the rock, screw you all. None of you give 2 craps about Brady's safety, and would love nothing more than to see him get hurt.

Honestly, none of your opinions matter. If the Patriots keep winning, then Belichick is 100% right. His job isn't to soothe the bruised ego of the other team, it's to win football games.

Pardon me if I sound a bit arrogant, but when your team is the best team in football, you feel free to do the same. I'm done discussing this BS with a bunch of hypocritical whiners who don't really even care how bad the Redskins get beat, they just want to get on their soapbox and attack a team they're jealous of.

Have fun.

I will have to agree with With your post totally. It only takes one play , one blind hit, and Brady would be out for the season. It happens time and time again. Then the Patriots season would be over. A  defensive player will get mad and that will make them play harder and harder to get To Brady.

Why are you pretending to care about what happens to Brady? You should worry more about your team improving, so they can get to the Patriots' level, and less about what the Pats are doing against other teams.

Way to state the obvious...If not even Bill Belichick cares about Brady's health (appearantly he doesn't leaving him in when its 45-0), of course I won't.

"Screw you, who needs sportsmanship, we'll run up the score however we want".

 

- I thought all along (for the first three championships) the New England Patriots were an organization that prided themselves on integrity/sportsmanship and the importance of it. There appears to have been an overnight change in mentality among the Patriot nation.

I beleive matt Casel Ran for a 15 yard TD. He is the back up QB and he carved up the Defense.  That is Sad!! Is that what they teach these players give 100% lay down. No they tell them to Score. The Patriots have outscored opponents, 79-7, in the first quarter.  I guess the back ups should come in in the second quarter. You dont want to hurt the feelings of a Professional Football Player.

Why do you keep doing back to the first quarter nobody is talking about that. That's what I meant when I said I didn't expect you Patriots fans to understand. Pretty much everyone understands that the patriots have been up big early nobody is saying anything about that. The thing that has drawn the ire of most people is the way that they're playing in the 4th quarter when they are going for it on 4th downs throwing go routes with their starters still in and up by 40 points. When have you ever seen football played in this way?

Most of us have been accustomed to seeing certain things when teams are up by huge margins LATE IN GAMES and what the Pats have been doing is the polar opposite. Can a Pats fan at least admit that?

YES! The Pats are bucking traditional if not antiquated ideas of chivalry in sport when up LATE IN THE GAME...and I LOVE IT!

 

Regardless of score or time in the game,  I want to see touch downs from kick off to the clock is wound down. I want to see a defense contain and frustrate the opposition. I want to see both umps/ refs/ judges hands raised high to the heavens. I want to see the ball spiraling down field long and high.  I want to see players driving the ball with all their might in to the end zone. I want to see players drill the opposition dead.

 

YES! The Pats are classless! They've taken the game up a gear to another level. YES! The Pats are shameless. Some might say audacious! Why should they be ashamed of the way they have proved skill and ability.

 

If you're not use to teams doing what the Pats are doing, get use to it. It might be your team consistently posting big numbers next year. The game is evolving. It always will. It always has. Teams rise and fall. Sick of the Pats? I was of the Bills. The Cowboys. The Packers.

 

I am concerned about the 'tall poppy' syndrome here. If the Pats continue on their way some sort of 'street justice' will be met out to players on the field. What's that about? The true nature of the beast? If you can't match them (according to the rule book) - fight dirty?? Says more about ineptness and impotence than anything else.

 

Lastly, as an outsider, I never realised American Football (Gridiron) was such a gentleman's game. Tea and biscuits - anyone?

Bill responds to all his detractors:

You seem to think that running the ball up the gut trying to fight for a first down in order to run the clock out doesn't require 100% effort. Do me a favor and tell that to the Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Bucs, or Broncos whom have all made a living out of doing just that in the 4th with a lead. 

How many of those teams are undefeated?

Patriots fans original argument: It isn't considered running up the score, its just giving 100%

 

Patriots fans new argument: Who cares about sportsmanship, screw everybody we can do what we want

 

They're so inconsistent...it's pointless arguing with them. All we can do is hope the Colts can give the Beli-chick and the Patriot nation some humble pie. At least Tony Dungy is a real gentlemen.

 

Go Colts!

 

 

 

...but all of those teams have either been to or won a Super Bowl in the past by successfully running for 1st downs late in the game and preserving leads.

You didn't answer my question.

FYI, none of them are undefeated.

And by the way...since I clearly need to remind you again...Belichick has coached 3 Super Bowl championship teams. Only one coach in history has more than that. I'm pretty sure he's aware of what he needs to do to win a championship. Thanks for your concern, though.

Jerome Bettis, Jamal Lewis, Shaun Alexander, Mike Alstott, Terell Davis. That's a pretty impressive list of backs from the teams you just mentioned. Most of them are future HOFers. And they're nearly all power backs, who are built for running out the clock.

The Patriots have Laurence Maroney, who has already missed 3 games and parts of others to injury. The backup is Sammy Morris, who is now out for the season. The 3rd string RB is Kevin Faulk, who is getting older now, and has really only been effective in screen plays.

Tom Brady has barely been touched this year. The Patriots are at a larger risk of injury by running out the clock than they are if they pass the ball. The clock runs down just as much for a completed pass as it does for a running play.

Try to come up with something intelligent. As fun as it is to rip your ridiculous arguments to shreds, it would be nice to have a challenge once in a while.

My final word. Since I've seen where this leads elsewhere when one team is seen to be 'unsporting' and 'a law unto itself' (even within the rule book). LEGISLATE!!! Write to the commissioner and get 'Mercy Rules' in place. Write to that mandatory knees be knelt when the score difference reaches 30. That way everybody plays by the letter of the law. Just like recording opposition calls is a rule.  

"No football fan wants to watch a whiny little b***h like Dick Vermeil lead their team, even if he does win."

HEY!

Jerk...

I understand what you're saying completely. But I really do have a problem with these self-righteous whiners who act like it's the end of the world that the Patriots run their normal offense throughout the game.

The biggest reasons I have heard are:
sportsmanship
Brady's health

If I really thought that these clowns would attack their own teams for doing the same thing, then I could respect their opinion. But when vindog's Cowboys beat the Bills 52-17 in the Super Bowl, I'm sure Vinny wasn't too concerned with the Cowboys embarrassing the Bills in the most watched event of the year. I'm sure he had no mixed feelings whatsoever with that win. And I'm sure soxfan90 looks back on the Bears' 46-10 dismantling of the Patriots in the Super Bowl as a great moment in Bears history, and has no shame whatsoever in the fact that the Bears ran for a TD with a defensive lineman, a true display of arrogance. I'm sure his only beef with that game is that Walter Payton didn't get the chance to run one in.

And as for Brady, everyone is pretending that they give a crap about his health, when this clearly isn't the case. Most of these people are saying that if they had the chance, they'd take a cheap shot on him. And let's face it...the way that the Patriots' linemen are playing, throwing the ball has been the FAR safer option, as far as avoiding injury. We have had our top 2 RB's lose a lot of time to injury, while Brady has hardly been touched.

If someone had a completely legitimate argument as to why there is ANYTHING AT ALL wrong with what the Patriots are doing, then I would be more than happy to intelligently debate it with them. But as long as people are going to continue to throw out ridiculous and ignorant excuses, I really have no reason to respect their convoluted and biased views.

People are quick to call me a homer, but I never complained a bit when any other team went out and whooped another team. It's the National Football League, folks. These guys aren't Pop Warner kids. We're not out here to teach people how to play, or to make sure everyone has fun. These guys are out there to win. And in a ruthless league where one bad season can cut your next paycheck in half (or worse), these guys should NEVER be faulted for giving it their all on every play.

And as for Belichick...once he loses a game or Brady gets hurt, I welcome any and all criticism that anyone may have. Personally, I think he's the best NFL coach ever. And I will continue to believe that, no matter what happens this season. If he somehow loses a game because of his team "running up the score", then everyone can feel free to bring all of their hatred down on him and his tactics. If Brady ends up missing games because he was left in the game too long and he's trying to throw TD bombs in garbage time, then maybe you guys were right.

But as long as the Patriots are rolling through their opponents, I honestly don't think any of these people have a leg to stand on here.

And until someone comes up with something that's a little more educated than what I've been hearing lately, I will treat them with the respect that they prove they deserve.

Things people have tried to say lately:
Bill Belichick's not a great coach, he's just lucky
The Patriots should be more like the Steelers, Bucs, Ravens, Seahawks, Broncos
We're not accustomed to seeing teams do what the Patriots are doing right now
Bill Belichick doesn't care about Tom Brady's health
Bill Walsh would never do this (FYI, his 49ers won the last 3 games of the 1987 season by scores of 41-0, 35-7 and 48-0)

Find me a reasonable statement in there, and I will intelligently debate it. But I have a hard time when I am continually "throwing pearls before the swine", to borrow a biblical phrase.

Generally, you (Buttons) give extremely thoughtful and intelligent debates. Therefore, I HAVE to reply intelligently, or I wouldn't even be able to keep up. But when these people come with these ridiculous comments, I have no choice but to remind them of their true intentions.

Now do we add Detroit to the list of poor sports who are running up the score?

If I were Bill Belichick I would still rather put Maroney at risk than Brady because the Pats are still the best team without Maroney. Without Brady, they're finished.

But the chances of Brady getting injured are slim. The Colts have a great pass rush, and STILL only sacked him twice. When the Pats pass the ball, Brady rarely gets hit. When they run the ball, Maroney gets hit nearly EVERY TIME. The chances of Maroney getting hurt are exponentially greater than the chances of Brady getting hurt. And without Maroney, the Pats have NO running game at all, and you know how bad that can affect the passing game.

Oh yeah...and the Patriots are 9-0 right now. How many other teams can say that? Obviously, Belichick and the Pats are doing SOMETHING right.

The Patriots wouldn't be losing much w/o Maroney because they are a passing team. You act as if Tom Brady is invincible. All it takes is a 300+ pound nose tackle pissed off that they're running up the score in the 4th quarter to sit on Brady's leg 5 seconds after he releases the ball to end his career, along with the Patriots campaign for a 4th title. I know its sad, but you never know...its kinda the nature of the sport when you feel humiliated to do something about it.

 

As small as the chances are, you have to protect your hall of fame QB-WR combination, even if it means putting lesser players at a higher risk. Do you see the Pats winning it all w/ Brady on the shelf? No way. With Maroney on the shelf? Still the best team in the league by a considerable margin.

If you lose your running game, you lose any other threat besides your passing game. When that happens, opposing teams can focus on the pass enough that even though the passing attack is incredible, they can still offset it enough to keep themselves in the game. Without the threat of a quality running game, the passing game becomes far less efficient, regardless of their ability.

You do realize the Patriots are a passing team. When they got down 20-10 last Sunday, it was Tom Brady who marched them right down the field on consecutive drives. When in doubt and when the game is on the line, they put the ball in his hands to make a play, and because of that when the Pats have a 38-0 lead Bill Belichick needs to grow up, take his starters out, and do whatever he can to protect a player who means that much to the team.

 

Is Brady's health risk (along with the risk of breaking up maybe the greatest passing attack in Pro football history) really worth humiliating the Redskins that much more? Its almost like in 1996 if Phil Jackson left in Michael Jordan with a 105-60 lead over the Bucks...simply ridiculous. I don't care how much success Belichick has had, it definately doesn't excuse stupidity.

Something but not everything.

Bill Belichick is doing more things right than any other coach in the NFL.

...that maybe true, but leaving his starters in and passing the ball with a 38-0 lead in the 4th/putting his hall of fame QB at risk in order to humiliate a non-conference opponent (Redskins) that much more certainly isn't one of them.

That's not necessarily true. Belichick has been forcing his players to play 60 minutes of football all year when people thought they didn't have to. Against the Colts, they HAD to. And they did. Looking at the small picture, maybe it looks dumb on paper. But in the big picture, it may have been a lot smarter than you think.

Your argument would make sense if this was a young and unproven squad, but this is a battle tested, veteran team that has won three Super Bowls together. Don't be mistaken, these guys know what it takes to win a game wire to wire, and have done it on the biggest stage (3 super bowl wins by a combined 9 points). They would've played 60 minutes last Sunday regardless of how many minutes they played against Washington.

I'm glad you can just assume that. By your reasoning, we should just give them the Super Bowl now, since we know they're the best team in the league, and we know they'll perform, because they're so battle-tested. But I think Belichick's got a handle on things right now. If anything bad happens to the Pats, maybe you'll have a leg to stand on. But right now, your argument is ridiculously petty and feeble.

Belichick does have a handle on things right now, but he's putting his grasp at risk b/c he foolishly plays his starters w/ a 38-0 lead. It's great that they even have the option, but more times than not its injuries (not rustiness) that breaks up great teams and ruins great players. Any chance he gets he should rest his players.

While some of us may agree with you, there's nothing you, me or anyone else can say that is going to change the most stubborn (or die hard) Patriots fan (Pat) or probably any other Pats' fans mind. We'll all have our opinions on this matter and to this point we've all expressed them fully. It's time to just sit back and watch everything play out. Until of course the Patriots manage to do something else that gets everybody seeing red which they almost certainly will.  

Clearly all the arguing could be put to rest if Belichick had just run the clock out against Indy and not scored their last TD. If he had done that no one would be complaining about anything right now.

haha...no

I honestly don't know what more they can do to make opposing teams see red than what has already been done.

 

They already have a bulls eye on their backs just from being the best and most successful team. Now Belichick and the Patriots want to give the opponent even more motivation by running up the score, videotaping Chad Pennington's hand signals and doing other unsportsmanlike things (how they celebrated a playoff win in San Diego). I guess that's why Bill Belichick has a coaching motivation rating of "99" in the franchise mode of Madden 08. Hopefully the Colts/Chargers play with more of an edge (thanks to Belichick) this January.

If the Patriots win the Super Bowl this year, then everyones whining about Belichick's tactics are completely irrelevant. If they win the Super Bowl, then he was right. No matter how much you hate it.

Why in hell should the Patriots respect Randall Godfrey anyways?..or the Redskins? nobody wanted to respect the Patriots when  they were down and out,They called them the NE Patsy's ...Remember? I do. Its NFL football not Pop Warner.I cant believe the bunch of little girls out there crying about getting there butts kicked,instead of trying to correct what went wrong.Don Shula shame on you! you should of just kept your big mouth shut! instead you just showed everyone that your just an old nervous jealous has been. Imagine if they go unbeating two years in a row!..HA! HA! CRY ME A RIVER........ PROUD PATRIOT FAN FOEVER.

i know the truth is hard to swallow, but Don Shula is 100% correct in what he said. Like it or not- the Patriots GOT CAUGHT cheating, and will ALWAYS be remembered for it- especially IF they go undefeated!!!

To you apparantly Bill Belichick is God. Leaving his starters in w/ a 38-0 lead would be a stupid move for any other coach in the history of the NFL but because Belichick is above all and everything, it's a great move. He's the perfect coach who hasn't done one thing wrong in his coaching career nor is he capable of...right?

Don't worry about what these guys say. They are just jealous. You can't turn on ESPN or read SI without something New England or Boston staring you in the face.  Their teams all suck in comparison. We can be proud of our teams without their approval. Let them rant all they want. In the end, there will be two championships (maybe three, outside shot at four) in Boston this year. Screw them all! LOL!

What me worry? No way everything is going good up here in championship land.Lmao!

The truth is hard to swallow.But at least Belichick did have the wah-woo's too admit it,Unlike the colts getting busted for pumping in crowd noise.And do they actually believe that all other teams go by the book? Jerry Jones....? come on!..... #2 There is only one GOD............................They are right about one thing though,Belichick is not like any other coach .He's the perfect coach!

BeliCHEAT had the wah-woos to admit cheating????? I think he said that he just " Misinterpreted the rules"! that IS NOT an admission of guilt by any means. do you have any PROOF that Jerry Jones doesn't play by the rules? Didn't think so!! but WE have PROOF that BeliCHEAT did in-fact CHEAT! that is a solid PROVEN FACT!!! if BeliCHEAT was any kind of man, he would have CLEARLY admitted that he CHEATED instead of dancing around the facts and saying that it was a MISINTERPRETATION!! BTW, a "PERFECT" Coach wounldn't have to cheat, would he?

Belichick said he "misintrpreted the rules", you "misintpreted what he said".

 

Try again.

Yea right,and CBS was at fault for the crowd noise right?...No I dont have proof that Jones is a cheater,But in time my friend,in time,what goes around comes around..Mangini (manboobies) opened up a whole new can of worms.Belichick (not belicheat as you Emmit Smith croonies will call him)Had said he misinterpeted the rules,Thats an admission.The truth is hard to swallow,whats the truth? The mighty NE Patriots are 9-0 and your not! We will be known as the greatest Team in NFL history.Dallas,San Francisco,The Bears,(remember when they sent the fridge in to score a TD?was that running up the score?hmmmmm.)all great teams but not the greatest!!!

The Bears brought in the fridge to score a TD in a game in which they won 16-10 (against the Packers). Hardly running up the score.

 

The truth that's hard to swallow? Your ignorance...

 

 

First of all you can bite me! how's that for ignorance! 2nd I was talking about the 86 super bowl

The difference between the 86' Super Bowl and the Pats/Redskins game:

 

A) The Bears were running the ball w/ a big lead, and scored anyways.

B) The Fridge wasn't the Bears starting FB

C) The Bears even let your beloved Patsies score at the end

 

Big difference in comparison to the Patriots, who were doing exactly the opposite to all 3 against the 'skins.

I remember it well the score was 46-10.your only response that makes sense is A, ...B and C your just talking out your ass.They ran up the score and then rubbed it in with Perry.They should have kicked field goals.or just took a knee ..right?

Only if they were running it in on 4th down......

are you crying? you said there is no such thing as running up the score, yet you contradict yourself by saying that the Bears did it. Which is it?

"B and C you're just talking out of your ass"

 

B) Perry wasn't even the Bears starting FB - Yes, this is in fact true. Instead Matt Suhey was their starting FB and went to the pro bowl in 85'. If you look at the Bears roster that year, William Perry is clearly listed as a DT. If the Bears wanted to score that badly, do you really think the Bears would pass on a hall of fame running back to give the ball to a 330 lb. nose tackle who can barely move let alone get through running lanes?

 

C) The Bears even let the Patsies score - This is also true. Irving Fryar caught an 8 yard TD pass in a 44-3 deficit. As admitted by Mike Ditka after the game, he instructed his defensive unit to let that happen. 

 

Did you seriously watch the game? I wasn't even born yet, but contrary to you, I can accurately recall what happened.

Ahh how much I wish I could of had a Capture Card for my 360...

just got done playing a game of Madden; and funniest thing (I think atleast) happened...

31-0, I'm leading, and have the ball on the opposing 12 yard line when its 4th and 5 and 4:11 left in the 4th quarter...

I ask Madden what to do; and he gives me 5 different pass plays! I back out, and ask the coach; and more pass plays to run!

See...even John and Herm wants to run up the score...for you guys to still be arguing that Bill did it is comical though

Yes, it's comical, but not nearly as comical as someone saying he accurately recalls what happened in a game played before he was born. I was in stitches when I read that. I'm going to frame it.

They do have those games on DVDs now.

 You cannot 'accurately recall' something that happened before you were born. That is an oxymoron. It would be the same as saying you 'accurately recall' the fall of the Roman Empire after you read the book.

Not a good example. There isn't video evidence of the fall of the Roman Empire.

There's rubble everywhere.

Fine then, I accurately "stated" what happened. Can you find any discrepancies in my account of what happened in Super Bowl XX? If not, then I'm right. The oxymoron is besides the point.

From the Wikipedia account of the game, picking it up in the second half:

 

"On New England's second drive of the period, Chicago cornerback Reggie Phillips intercepted a pass from Grogan and returned it 28 yards for a touchdown to increase the lead 37-3.

On the second play of their ensuing possession, the Patriots turned the ball over again, when receiver Cedric Jones lost a fumble after catching a 19-yard pass from Grogan, and Marshall returned the fumble 13 yards to New England's 37-yard line. A few plays later, McMahon's 27-yard completion to receiver Dennis Gentry moved the ball to the 1-yard line, setting up perhaps the most memorable moment of the game. William "the Refrigerator" Perry was brought on to score on offense, as he had done twice in the regular season. His touchdown made the score 44-3. The Bears' 21 points in the third quarter is still a record for the most points scored in that period."

 

So, when ahead 37-3, The Bears, instead of running the ball,  passed for 27 yards and scored a touchdown using a play with Perry ( a DT) that they used in  the regular season. I'd argue that they "ran up the score" just as much as the Pats against the Skins. Enough BS!

you just said it yourself. The Bears SCORED in the 3rd Qtr, not the 4th with 9+ minutes to go in the game and up by 38. think about your own statement and you will see what everyone has been "crying" about.

How is it that this thread hasn't died yet??

 

 

Is this what it feels like when you keep seeing new comments for this thread?

I think you've got the idea.

Now to summarize and settle the "running up the score" comparison between the '85 Bears and 07' Pats in 3 questions: Did the Bears go for it on 4th down in the 4th quarter? Were the Bears passing in the 4th? Did the Bears even score a TD in the 4th?

 

No, no, and no. It wasn't running up the score, and even if it was it certain'y wasn't as bad as the Pats this year against the 'Skins, who would've been a "yes" to all three of those.

 

Case dismissed.

I still have yet to see a valid reason for you to really even care about this.

Is there one? Besides your self-righteous and petty desire to attack those of whom you are insanely jealous?

"I have yet to see a valid reason for you to really even care about this"

 

- Are you acknowledging that I'm right? Thanks, I'll take it. 

Absolutely not. I am acknowledging that you have no point to your argument, and you argue about petty crap that really doesn't even matter to you, which results in an inability to construct a quality perspective, therefore you get too involved in stuff that doesn't even matter, and fail to see the big picture.

The Patriots are winning games. They've beat the worst teams (Dolphins, Jets), they've beat the best teams (Colts, Cowboys), and they've beat some pretty good teams (Chargers, Redskins, Bills, etc). You can sit here and question or criticize Bill Belichick's methods all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his team is the only undefeated team left in the league.

Belichick is doing an excellent job with this team, period. He is getting more out of Randy Moss than anyone thought possible, and the team has performed literally perfectly whenever they've been in a pressure situation. If you disagree with his tactics, then that's fine. But he's right, and if you think otherwise, you really don't have a leg to stand on. At least not until someone beats him.

Yes, his methods are working in NE. I'm not criticizing his entire agenda as a coach, I'm only criticizing a little portion of it (leaving his starters in). Just Ask Belichick himself if he's a perfect person. I guarantee you to his own admission he's made mistakes before. As good as his methods are working, there are still flaws with his just like there are with any other coach in America.

Of course he will be able to find mistakes...he's a perfectionist. This is nothing new. Do you have anything legitimately intelligent and noteworthy to say yet? I'm surprised you haven't already started whining about how the Pats mistreated the Bills. They should have taken out Heath Evans and Kyle Eckel earlier, right? I mean...those guys were dominant, rushing for a combined 94 yards in one half...the Patriots should have benched their 4th and 5th RB's...hahaha.

lol, why not put in their 4th and 5th running backs? By that point Bill Belichick might even consider giving a guy like Vince Wilfork a few carries . Sorry 'Fridge, its time to pass the torch.

 

 

Who needs Laurence Maroney?

You don't think that having a guy like Wilfork (or anyone who's not a RB) running the ball wouldn't just be MORE of a slap in the face to his opponents?

Hey guys, we don't even HAVE to use running backs to beat you...we can just have some fat guy run it up the gut...

With a 38-0 lead, giving a fat guy a few carries is supported by both the entertainment side and strategic side of football. It keeps the game interesting while at the same time rests your key player(s).

 

Just an idea...even though Belichick's only objective is to win games. What the Bears did in 85' with the Fridge certainly helped their popularity. Maybe if the Pats showed a little more light heartedness then they'd be a little easier to like, not that that matters to you (and it shouldn't), but from an organizational standpoint where business is the goal, it wouldn't hurt.

Ok...now you're reaching a little bit. I'm not sure if Bob Kraft needs any business tips right now. But I'm sure he would appreciate your suggestion.

Want to know what the issue is there? ESPN never came out and said that the Packers were running up the score. The people who act like it's a big deal are the people who watch/listen to ESPN and allow the WWL to form their opinions for them. If ESPN publicizes it, these followers will hop on the bandwagon.

These people are like lemmings. They see a cause that will feed their self-righteous need to criticize others, and will discard all sense of logic and reason, and suddenly attack the tactics of the best team and coach in the league. And even when the same thing happens elsewhere, they won't say a damn thing about it, because no one told them they should care about it.

A Bostonian of all people complaining about negative attention received from ESPN? Factoring in the East-Coast biass, Bill Belichick's running up the score must have been really bad if even ESPN takes a few shots.

I'm not complaining about ESPN. I'm complaining about drones like yourself crying about it, when you have no legitimate reason to even care, other than "ESPN told me it's important". In all reality, you don't even know why you have an issue with it.

We should be more concerned with why an NFL team
is 0-10 rather than how the Pats are winning. 

The reason I don't like Belichick and his impact on football is basically the same reason I don't like Barry Bonds and his impact on baseball. Think about it: both are fortunate to either have talent/have talent around them, both show no respect for opponents, both hate the media, and both personalities are unlikeable by any measures. Heck, they're both also cheats (haha). A combination of those things equal both men casting a shadow over two celebrated and precious factors in their respective sports (NFL's best team/baseball home run record).

 

The reason why I would care about Barry Bonds and his antics?... because I care about baseball.

The reason why I would care about Bill Belichick and his antics? ...because I care about football.

 

Make sense?

It would make plenty of sense, if you weren't completely hypocritical, whiny and self-righteous about it.

The comparison to Bonds is completely invalid. Bonds was NEVER held accountable for his actions until after he already broke the HR record. Belichick, on the other hand, was already punished for his actions. Whether or not you agree with the punishment is irrelevant. He was punished by Goodell, and the issue is now moot.

Belichick has all the respect in the world for his opponents. Which is why he never allows his team to become complacent, and allow those opponents to catch up.

Unlikeable? Hardly. Belichick isn't the most personable and amicable guy around, but if you like guys who don't want to do anything but their job, and simply want to be the best in everything they do, then Belichick is your guy. His tireless work ethic, attention to detail and constant desire for perfection is something to be admired and emulated.

Does Belichick hate the media? Maybe. But is that REALLY something to hold against him? Absolutely not. Over and over again, he has said that he wants to take it one game at a time, and has no interest in talking about anything but that week's game, or their next opponent. But over and over again, members of the media want to ask him and his players about things like playoff rematches, undefeated seasons, etc. And if you've seen some of his post-game interviews, he is often quite humorous, and is very friendly with the media. The man just wants to be left alone when they're preparing for a game, regardless of opponent.

There is no shadow over the NFL because of Belichick. The only shadow is cast by whiny little kids who sit there and listen to everything that ESPN tells them, and can't even make valid decisions for themselves.

So far, you've told me that Joe Crede is a better clutch player than David Ortiz, the Cowboys defense is average, Bill Belichick isn't a good coach, the greatest team in the NFL is casting a shadow over the league...how the hell is anyone supposed to take you seriously anymore?

Since you keep bringing up Joe Crede, I guess that must've been a pretty humbling loss for you in that thread. Its like your personal "Remember the Alamo" battle cry. Do me a favor and keep bringing it up, it reminds me that I have the upper hand.

 

If you read my previous post, I said that Bill Belichick is casting a shadow over the league, not the Patriots. See the difference? Its kinda pathetic how you put words in my mouth over and over. I honestly thought you were better then that. I guess since its both your first and last resort, then you're not worthy of my time.

It's hilarious that you would say that, but I only wish you honestly believed anything you said. That way, you would stop with your silly nonsense.

Either way, the Patriots will go undefeated, win the Super Bowl, and end up going down as the best team ever. Belichick's methods are flawless so far in terms of success, and he has been punished for any wrongdoing he may have committed. You still have yet to acknowledge that, but that's ok. Sorry no one else can compete, but that's not Belichick's problem.

the Patriots WILL NOT go undefeated, nor will they win the Superbowl. in fact, I'll go out on the limb and say that they dont even MAKE IT to the Superbowl. Forever cementing them as the best team in history to not win a Championship. LOL

I think there's a chance they don't go undefeated, because Belichick has shown a pattern of not caring about the results of games late in the season, when they have everything clinched. But there's no way they don't win the Super Bowl. We've seen Patriots teams with FAR less talent win Super Bowls because of superior coaching and an intense desire to win. I think we've seen MORE of that this year than ever, and there's no way this team loses a game that matters this year. And honestly, with Belichick's new ruthless mentality, he might even go for perfection. It wouldn't shock me at all. And if he tries, they'll get it.

it only takes ONE injury to end the Patriots season. just like most teams in the NFL today- they have no backup QB and i really do think that Brady wont finish the season. Call it a gut feeling or whatever, but i just forsee something tragic happening to this team.

Well...if they want to hurt him, they gotta touch him first. I think your gut feeling is nothing more than a secret desire, because you know it's the only way your Cowboys would have a chance. The Patriots' offensive line has been absurdly good this year, and they show no signs of stopping. Once one or two of those guys get hurt, I'll start worrying about Brady.

my Cowboys have a chance no matter if Brady gets hurt or not. That game a few weeks ago has no bearing on how good the Cowboys really are when their defense is healthy. i just dont think that the Patriots can make it out of the playoffs and into the Superbowl. if they do, then great, but i dont think they can. Stats mean absolutely NOTHING when the playoffs start as we have all seen time and time again.

I agree that stats mean nothing. But look at the games. The Pats have beaten everyone who's dared step in their path, and 91% of those games have been blowouts at one point or another. The Cowboys are good. As are the Colts, and maybe a few other teams. But this Patriots team is better. And they are too well coached to fail in the playoffs. Belichick's teams have shown a propensity to play BETTER in the playoffs. Why you would think they would suddenly fail to do so, I have no idea.

did they play " BETTER" in last years playoffs? i think they played well, but not any better than during the season. yes, they do have a much better team than last year ( at least on offense) but i dont think their defense is any better. and defense IS what wins Championships. and i really dont think that their defense can win a playoff game. its my opinion of course.

Honestly? You don't think they played better in the playoffs last year? Are you kidding? They beat a Jets team who they lost to in their previous meeting, and they beat the Chargers, who were widely considered to be the best team in the league. And then they came within 1 minute of beating the Colts, who had beaten them by a TD in the regular season. They really weren't anywhere near as impressive in the regular season as you think. There were times when they didn't even look like a playoff team.

And if you think this Patriots defense isn't capable of winning games for them, you're sadly mistaken. This is CLEARLY an elite defense. Mike Vrabel is having an unbelievable season, Richard Seymour is back, Asante Samuel is still a top CB, Adalius Thomas was the single biggest free agent pickup in the entire NFL and is playing extremely well...the list goes on and on.

They are 3rd in yards allowed per game, 6th in rushing yards allowed, and 5th in passing yards. The rushing stat isn't all that impressive, because teams never really have the opportunity to run on us because they're always playing from behind. But considering that, the 5th ranking in passing yards per game is even more impressive. Add that to the fact that the Pats only allow 15.7 yards per game, and I think that this is a championship caliber defense.

The defense has 13 INT's (tied for 4th in the NFL) and 9 fumbles forced (tied for 11th), for a total of 22 turnovers (tied for 4th in the NFL), and a turnover differential of +13 (best in the NFL by a lot).

They have allowed the 5th fewest first downs, and have the BEST 3rd down defense in the league, and are tied for the best 4th down percentage. They are also tied for 6th in sacks.

Let me also remind you that the starters RARELY even play in the 4th quarter. Belichick has taken a lot of heat for not pulling his offensive starters "early enough", but he rotates his defense out a lot earlier, which is a big reason for teams like Miami scoring 21 points in the 4th quarter. This defense is STILL among the statistical leaders in nearly everything, even though their starters only play 75% of the games.

The fact that you would even consider to say ANYTHING negative about this defense just goes to show how little you really know about them.

ah, here come the stats again. as i've said before stats mean nothing. and the PLAYOFF teams that the Patriots will be playing arent the dolphins or Jets either so you can throw those stats out as well. We will see what happens, but i think that you are going to be a little disappointed in this years playoffs. BTW, Congratulations to your patriots for winning their division today- God knows its a tough one to win. LOl

You say stats mean nothing. But the stats tell a story of how a team has played. You say that this defense isn't good enough to win them a championship. Where's the evidence of that? At least I have SOME facts to support what I say. From what I can tell, you're just talking to make yourself sound right, with a blatant disregard to the accuracy of your statements.

Sure, the Pats won't be playing the Dolphins or Jets in the playoffs. But these stats are compared to the entire NFL, and whoever they happen to play. So it's compared to your Cowboys, who also won't be playing the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Rams, Vikings and Eagles in the playoffs.

Give me some valid reasons why you think this Patriots defense ISN'T one of the elite defenses in the league. I honestly don't think you can make an intelligent argument for that, because they are easily in the top 3-5 in the NFL. But go for it...I'd like to hear where you're coming from.

And thanks for the congrats. I realize it's not the toughest division in the world, but I still think it's a little impressive that they clinched it so quick. When is the last time you saw a team clinch their division BEFORE their 11th game?

when is the last time that a division was SO WEAK that a team could actually CLINCH their division without playing their 11th game? The Bears couldn't do it last year and their division was HORRIBLE- the Chargers couldn't do it either and they were 14-2. so NO, its not that impressive at all. it has nothing to do with how good the Patriots are (which they are good), and EVERYTHING to do with how BAD the AFC East actually is. as far as the stats, yes they are compared to other teams in the league, but you also have to look at those HIGHLY POWERFUL OFFENSES that the Patriots defense is playing against. Besides the Cowboys and Colts (and the Colts were really beat up on offense that game), what is the HIGHEST ranked offensive juggernaut that the Patriots have played?

"what is the HIGHEST ranked offensive juggernaut that the Patriots have played?"

Well...how do I determine who is an "offensive juggernaut"? Should I use the stats, which you say mean nothing? Hmm...

Well...I'll go with points per game, since that is the most all-encompassing statistic. The Patriots are #1, and they can't play themselves. But they've played the Cowboys (#2), the Browns (#3) and the Colts (#4). I'm not sure if that's good enough for you, but just for good measure, they've also played the Bengals (#7) and the Chargers (#10).

Teams the Patriots have beaten, # of points they scored against the Pats, average points per game, and their PPG rank:

Jets, 14, 16.5, 27th
Chargers, 14, 22.9, 10th
Bills, 7, 15.3, 28th
Bengals, 13, 24.6, 7th
Browns, 17, 28.8, 3rd
Cowboys, 27, 32.5, 2nd
Dolphins, 28, 18.3, 23rd <--- The only time a team has outscored their average against the Pats
Redskins, 7, 20.0, 17th
Colts, 20, 28.1, 4th
Bills, 10, 15.3, 28th

The Patriots have held all of their opponents to below their season points per game average except for one, the Dolphins. And against the 'Phins, 21 of those points were in the 4th quarter when the game was already virtually decided, and 7 of them were the result of a Matt Cassel INT.

The Patriots  have held their opponents to an average of 6.53 points (about a TD) LESS than their season averages. And that's including the Miami game.

Against top 10 scoring offenses, the Patriots have held them to an average of 9.18 points less than their average PPG.

Ummm...you were saying? I honestly just don't know why you would question this defense. I understand that the offense is getting all the hype this year, but this might still be the best Patriots DEFENSE we've seen in a while as well.

you are completely missing my point, but thats O.k. because stats are very important for you to try to prove your points. But in all honesty, stats mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me (except for fantasy football of course). i really dont care if my Cowboys were the WORST ranked offense and the WORST ranked defense in the NFL as long as they were winning. Stats are NOTHING when it comes to winning anything. I've seen thousands of games in all sports where the team that won was completely outclassed in the stat category. so to answer your question, i STILL dont think that the Patriots defense is a GREAT defense- they are pretty good but not great IMHO.

So...what you're saying is that you have nothing whatsoever to back up anything you say. That's what I'm seeing from you.

I agree that stats aren't everything. But they ARE important when evaluating a team. Although the team with the best stats don't always win, better stats DO lead to victory more often than not. And the stats that I just talked about were points per game...which IS the stat that matters most when it comes to winning or losing. At the risk of sounding like John Madden, the team with the most points wins the game.

I think you're a smart guy, and an intelligent football fan. But when you go out and say things like you think the Patriots' defense isn't good enough to win them a championship, I just question your logic. You still haven't given a single good reason as to why you believe that, and your one response to me was "what is the HIGHEST ranked offensive juggernaut that the Patriots have played?", and we saw how easily that was refuted.

You say you wouldn't care if your team was statistically the worst team in the league, as long as they were winning. But the bottom line is, if they really were statistically the worst, they wouldn't be winning. Name a single team who is at the bottom of the rankings in both offense and defense and has a winning record. Doesn't happen.

Stats DO mean something, and the Patriots' record (and amazing statistics) speak volumes to that.

Still waiting for a single reason why they aren't an elite, championship-level defense... (other than "Vinnie said so")

because i dont think that they are- period!! An elite tightend can and has tore their defense up. their corners cant match up against a great tandem of receivers, their linebackers are old and slow. i could go on but it is irrelevant at this point because i'm SURE that you will pull some stat out of the archives to refute my claim. My CLAIM is all a matter of opinion of course and i stand by my claim just as i stood by my claim that the Bears were weak up the middle and i was proven right in that claim. I really have no need to continue argueing with you because its all stupid anyway. we will see who is the BEST in February. and BTW Kurt Warner threw for almost 500 yards today against San Francisco(a team with only 2 wins) and the Cardinals lost. Stats mean absolutely NOTHING!!!

"My CLAIM is all a matter of opinion of course"

And mine is backed up by facts. Need I say more?

"BTW Kurt Warner threw for almost 500 yards today against San Francisco(a team with only 2 wins) and the Cardinals lost. Stats mean absolutely NOTHING!!!"

THAT stat might not mean much. Because it doesn't reflect the 4 turnovers that the Cardinals had. Turnovers are a stat too, and those had EVERYTHING to do with the outcome of the game. If you pull out one or two stats per game, of course you can point out some that don't really matter. But take the bigger picture and incorporate a LOT of different stats, and it really does paint a perfect picture of how successful a team is.

To pretend that stats mean nothing is completely ignorant. In the proper context, and if analyzed appropriately, they can mean EVERYTHING.

I thought the Patriots' linebackers were old and slow too, but that was until I saw them contain Brian Westbrook as a unit pretty nicely yesterday. I know they didn't play well yesterday, but whatever weaknesses this defense has, they do a great job of masking them...which is what championship level defenses do.

they CANT contain the middle of the field. and have NO linebackers that can match up against faster pass catching Tightends which Indianapolis, Cleveland (laugh), and Pittsburgh all have. Hence the old and slow comment. The Eagles exploited the Patriots for ALOT of passing yards and most were up the middle, had they stayed inside instead of going outside on their last drive, Patriots fans would well be saying 15-1 instead of 16-0 right now.

I love your hypothetical situations. Completely disregard the fact that the defense contained an MVP-caliber RB, and that they stepped up and got 3 HUGE interceptions which all were enormous factors in the game. No, let's forget about all that, and play with the hypothetical situations and say the Pats could have lost.

This is one of TWO close games they've had all year. TWO. It's amazing how most teams would be thrilled to put together an excellent 4th quarter and pull out a win over a team that played as well as the Eagles played last night, but when the Patriots do it, you just want to criticize. You're ridiculous.

When it counted the most, the defense stepped up and made the biggest plays of the game. Honestly...what more can you ask of them?

hey, I'm just reacting to your (and most Patriots fans) overbearing talk about how great the Patriots are and how they are going to blow everyone out. get used to it. I've been a Cowboys fan all my life and I get shit talked to me everyday even when the Cowboys destroy people. So if you are going to root for a Champion, you had better get used to be treated "LIKE A CHAMPION" just as every Cowboys and Yankees fan gets daily. BTW, those INT's werent huge- they were thrown right to them except for maybe the 1st one for a TD- that WAS a pretty good INT.

Those weren't huge? You mean Asante Samuel's 2nd INT wasn't the biggest play of the game? It wasn't the straw that finally broke the Eagles? Did you watch the game? I didn't say it was an incredible play. But it was definitely one of the 3 most important plays in the game. The others were 1st INT to give the Pats 7 off the bat, and then the offsides penalty on 4th and 3 that gave the Pats the first down late in the game. Those were all "huge" plays, unquestionably.

Thanks for at least admitting that the Pats are champs. And I don't mind you talking a little smack once in a while. But I really do expect more intelligence from you, instead of this hatefully biased blather that has no grounds whatsoever.

i will agree that Samuel's 2nd Int WAS the biggest play of the game. but you said GREAT INT's, which it wasnt. the ball was throw 5 yards over the receivers head and DIRECTLY into Samuel's hands. Game changing moment? for sure. but GREAT INT? hardly. The Eagles beat themselves in that game and if you watched it without complete bias, you would know this. how about the Patriots TD that wasnt? you know, the one to end the 1st half that the officials upstairs DIDNT REPLAY? would they have overturned the TD? I think so, but we will never know, will we? THAT NON REVIEW WAS the BIGGEST PLAY of the ENTIRE GAME IMHO. but who really cares? NOBODY expected the Eagles to even compete with the Patriots (Christ, they were the BIGGEST underdogs in NFL betting HISTORY) but they did compete and layed a nice blueprint for everyone to follow on how to beat the Patriots. and if you think that i'm talking smack, just wait, my smack talking is light compared to what you are going to hear from others if the Patriots DONT WIN the Superbowl. but as i've said, get used to it. I STILL hear crap from PATRIOTS FANS about how Dallas barely beat the Bills and how the Patriots blew them out. so now I can say that the Patriots barely beat the Eagles and the Cowboys blew them out. LOL

When did I say "great INT's"? I said HUGE INT's, which they undeniably were. But I never said they were incredibly impressive plays. But the bottom line is that the defense stepped up the most when it counted the most.

And I agree about the questionable TD. I'm not 100% sure that there was enough evidence to overturn it, but if I were the ref, I would have called off the TD, because it looked like the knee landed out of the back of the end zone. But at the same time,  that was on 1st down. They had enough time and enough downs to make 2 more attempts at the end zone and still have time for a FG if necessary. Might not have been the best call, but I think we can agree that the Pats most likely would have scored regardless. They were money on that drive.

And again...I have no problem with smack talk, but PLEASE at least be intelligent about it. That's all I ask.