The Astros are on the move.

11/17/11 in MLB   |   jaysinw   |   4909 respect

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-17/astros-moving-to-american-league-as-crane-purchase-approved.html

There are talks out there that will send to Houston Astros to the AL West so that both leagues will have 15 teams. The Rangers president Nolan Ryan loves the idea for it would bring another team from the same time zone and make an interstate rivalry. Personally I would love to see the Brewers go back to the AL Central and have the Royals move over to the AL West. I know, I know it will not happen Bud Selig wanted the Brewers there and Jim Crane of Crane Capital  Group will get a discount on the sale price if he agree with the move. So now those who love inter league play will be able to see at least one series all season long.
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11/22/11   |   scquwi1   |   1227 respect

w_g_walters wrote:
It makes sense from a financial standpoint because of the decreased travel costs, especially with Texas in the same division with nothing but east coast teams. The Supersonics had one of the highest annual travel expenses (biggest in the NBA) before they moved to OKC, and that had a lot to do with the relocation. I think Texas would have eventually had to move, too. I just wish they'd gone to the NL instead of the other way around.

Really if they wanted to make sense from a financial standpoint more teams would have been moved around. It looks more like an easy way of getting it passed (one team moving to the AL) because the Astros was up for sell. If they had not been I do not believe the Astros would have been the team to move.

11/22/11   |   Soxfest   |   768 respect

w_g_walters wrote:
It makes sense from a financial standpoint because of the decreased travel costs, especially with Texas in the same division with nothing but east coast teams. The Supersonics had one of the highest annual travel expenses (biggest in the NBA) before they moved to OKC, and that had a lot to do with the relocation. I think Texas would have eventually had to move, too. I just wish they'd gone to the NL instead of the other way around.

Nobody wants to see the Astros in any AL park!

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

ML31 wrote:
I still say Portland is a very good option.  They seem to have the corporate money.  They have shown they can draw for Baseball.  The Beavers did just fine but were kicked out of town when the city decided that their stadium needed to be renovated for the MLS.  The city made an attempt to help them out with a new stadium on the old Memorial Coliseum site.  But I read a bunch of NIBY's killed it.  So the Beavers bailed. 

I think if a committed owner could get creative on a new stadium in the Rose City a major league Portland Beavers could have been possible should MLB had backed it.

I think I could to that easier than I could be an Arizona Diamondback...

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
I was going to say, until Seattle can support their team, Portland and Vancouver doesn't stand a chance! San Fran & Oakland would probably block Sacramento's bid, just to keep out the competition.

I would love to see Montreal get another chance! Seriously, I see MLB going into Latin America if they expand again.

I still say Portland is a very good option.  They seem to have the corporate money.  They have shown they can draw for Baseball.  The Beavers did just fine but were kicked out of town when the city decided that their stadium needed to be renovated for the MLS.  The city made an attempt to help them out with a new stadium on the old Memorial Coliseum site.  But I read a bunch of NIBY's killed it.  So the Beavers bailed. 

I think if a committed owner could get creative on a new stadium in the Rose City a major league Portland Beavers could have been possible should MLB had backed it.

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

(Edited by ML31)

Actually, Montreal isn't a bad option.  It's not so much that the Expos never worked out.  It's more like MLB sabotaged the Expos pretty much their last decade of existence.

I don't know where the money is but if you go just by population Portland, OR and Sacramento are the two largest metro areas with no MLB team.   But a sports team doesn't need a large pool of population as much as they need corporate sponsors to buy the luxury boxes and advertisements.  Sacramento's main business is State Government.  But I think Portland could work.  Vancouver could as well.  A three hour drive I don't think is too close to Seattle.  Although the Mariner owners might think differently...

PS...  If proximity is an issue for the Mariners Portland is just about as close to Seattle as Vancouver.  And with no border to cross an easier journey.

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
You realize, that has been my argument for eons. It scares me when we agree on things! LMAO

Ever since the 98 expansion this has been my compromise for the expanded playoffs.  Owners would still get their extra round and fan still get if not the best pennant races possible, at least they still get some of semblance of one.

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

Just for kicks...  I know the decision has been made but seems to me that a far better option is just to expand by two teams.  Then no team needs to swap leagues.  Or they could add one to each league and move the Brewers or Snakes to the AL  They would also get an even number of teams in both leagues.  And if they go to 4 four team divisions, we get only first place teams in the playoffs once again.  There are other issues with this plan but the benefits I think far outweigh them.

Of course, owners don't get their idiotic "play-in" games...  But I think the playoffs will be better off for it.

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

w_g_walters wrote:
It makes sense from a financial standpoint because of the decreased travel costs, especially with Texas in the same division with nothing but east coast teams. The Supersonics had one of the highest annual travel expenses (biggest in the NBA) before they moved to OKC, and that had a lot to do with the relocation. I think Texas would have eventually had to move, too. I just wish they'd gone to the NL instead of the other way around.

I guess that depends on what financial standpoint you are looking at.  Their local TV will likely go down in value considering all the new late games on their schedule.  And their travel will get much worse.  They used to stay in their own time zone a lot.  Now their west coast games have almost tripled in number.

11/19/11   |   w_g_walters   |   222 respect

ML31 wrote:
Funny thing...  The name Miami Marlins works WAY better than Florida ever did.  But when I saw their new logo...  Good god that's putrid!  Also, ironically enough, Joe Robbie-Sun Life-Pro Player or whatever it's called next week stadium seems to be WAY better than that giant toilet bowl they are moving into as well...

Just looked at the new logo, and all I have to say is, "WHAT THE HELL--?"

11/19/11   |   w_g_walters   |   222 respect

Soxfest wrote:
2 AL teams in Texas make no sense.

It makes sense from a financial standpoint because of the decreased travel costs, especially with Texas in the same division with nothing but east coast teams. The Supersonics had one of the highest annual travel expenses (biggest in the NBA) before they moved to OKC, and that had a lot to do with the relocation. I think Texas would have eventually had to move, too. I just wish they'd gone to the NL instead of the other way around.

11/19/11   |   w_g_walters   |   222 respect

ML31 wrote:
I think walters meant that with the Astros moving to the AL and bringing the DH to his team it would be terrible enough for him to blow off baseball for good.  I used that concept to segue to the moves made in the last 20 years that have alienated fans.

Bingo. The DH never made sense to me because it takes a position player off the field and doesn't give the pitcher a chance to contribute on offense.

11/19/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
Then that ONE team had to go with the God awfullest uniform & logo changes when they changed names earlier this month!

Funny thing...  The name Miami Marlins works WAY better than Florida ever did.  But when I saw their new logo...  Good god that's putrid!  Also, ironically enough, Joe Robbie-Sun Life-Pro Player or whatever it's called next week stadium seems to be WAY better than that giant toilet bowl they are moving into as well...

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
2 teams in Florida makes no sense, either, but that hasn't stopped them. Although, it has stopped people from going to their games! LOL

Hell..  One team in Florida never made sense!  But we all know what doesn't sense hasn't stopped MLB from doing those things....

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

(Edited by ML31)

double post

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
He had never coached in the NL at that time. He learned quick how hard it was over here!

As for the one good idea - the MLB Network seems to have been OK so far. LOL

OK...  I guess we can call that their one good idea for the decade.


Soon after managing in the NL he retracted his AL comment and claimed the NL was tougher.  I still think the comment was guided by what league he was working in as one does not need to manage in the majors to see that there are just more decisions to be made in an NL game.

11/18/11   |   Soxfest   |   768 respect

2 AL teams in Texas make no sense.

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

wrote:
Managers like Tony LaRussa (batting the Pitcher 8th, double switches, pinch-hitting, etc.) have romanticized the Pitcher hitting now, more than ever! Even he - who is famous for coaching in both leagues - prefers the NL rules. With people like him on the committee, along with Joe Torre, it may actually swing in OUR favor.

LaRussa seems to speak towards the side of where his paychecks are coming from.  When he managed the White Sox and A's, he always spoke about how much tougher managing in the AL was than the NL.

They may indeed opt to drop it from both leagues.  MLB averages one good decision a decade.  And they didn't have one in 00's.  So they are due.

(The one good decision they made in the '90s was in the very early internet days when they decided to evenly split all internet profits among all teams.  This decision was made when internet money was next to nothing and I believe had they known what a cash cow it would turn into they never would have agreed to the even split.)

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

While prefer not to have a DH, I kinda like it in the AL and not in the NL.  Although, with this expanded IL play I'm thinking MLB may have to make a final decision one way or the other.  I'm guessing that eventually they will add it to the NL because that is the decision that will turn off the most fans.

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

scquwi1 wrote:
I think he meant it as using the DH in the NL. Saying that the new fans would be OK with interleague play and the NL using it when they play in the AL parks, but I could be wrong.

I think walters meant that with the Astros moving to the AL and bringing the DH to his team it would be terrible enough for him to blow off baseball for good.  I used that concept to segue to the moves made in the last 20 years that have alienated fans.

11/18/11   |   scquwi1   |   1227 respect

wrote:
The DH has been around since 1973! That's TWO generations - three in many parts in the country.

I'm in agreement that it is an abomination, but it's hardly new!

I think he meant it as using the DH in the NL. Saying that the new fans would be OK with interleague play and the NL using it when they play in the AL parks, but I could be wrong.

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

(Edited by ML31)

I was mostly referring to the crap done since 1994.   Adding the DH ticked off a lot of fans but at least you still had the non-DH NL. 

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

w_g_walters wrote:
I've spoken out against the DH, and I only rooted for the Rangers because I live in Texas. But with my Astros going to the AL and the DH, I could very well be done with MLB.

I fully understand.  Those who run MLB don't seem to care that they are turning off their long time fans.  I guess they figure they will make it up with fans who grow up with the new format.

11/18/11   |   w_g_walters   |   222 respect

I've spoken out against the DH, and I only rooted for the Rangers because I live in Texas. But with my Astros going to the AL and the DH, I could very well be done with MLB.

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

ML31 wrote:
I know that the leagues have been gone for a while as well as the league specific umpires.  I never implied it was a new thing.  I was just saying that all that has already happened and combined with new new concept of IL play 24/7 just adds to the reasons to abolish the leagues completely.

I'm really not very old school.  I'm totally OK with positive changes to the game.  I'm just against changes that make things worse.
(Edited by ML31)

I know that the leagues have been gone for a while as well as the league specific umpires.  I never implied it was a new thing.  I was just saying that all that has already happened and combined with new new concept of IL play 24/7 just adds to the reasons to abolish the leagues completely.

I'm really not very old school.  I'm totally OK with positive changes to the game.  I'm just against changes that make things worse.

11/18/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

One big reason why it's the Astros moving...  The team is undergoing a transfer of ownership.  The other owners made a condition of the sale that the new guy MUST change leagues.  Easier that than forcing the Brewers back (Bud doesn't want that) or the other good choice, the Snakes.  Who never wanted to be in the AL to begin with but they had a 5 year window where the league could force the move.  It no longer exists.  

And all this stems really from that worthless 1998 expansion that never should have happened.

11/17/11   |   jaysinw   |   4909 respect

ML31 wrote:
They actually tried to do that about 20 years ago.  Make all the western teams the NL and all the eastern teams the AL.  I'm stunned they didn't follow through with it.  Under Bud Selig, you will never go broke wagering that MLB will do the dumbest thing possible.

I have to agree you never know and yes it does look like Selig does not care if Baseball continues to fall from being America's #1 sport.

11/17/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

scquwi1 wrote:
I am so with you on this. why move the Astros who have been in the NL since 1962. Move the Brewers back where they were and all ready had rivalries, which really does not matter much now with inter league play any how. Now I am waiting for the day MLB really goes off the deep end by merging the AL and NL then placing then in 8 divisions.
Go something like this
EAST (Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Philles, Pirates) Mid Atlantic (Nationals, Orioles, Braves, Ray, Marlins), Mid West (BlueJays, Tigers, Twins, Brewers, White Sox), Central (Cardinals, Royals, Indians, Cubs, Reds)              South ( Astros, Rangers, D-Backs, Rockies, Padres)     West ( Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, Giants, A's)

They actually tried to do that about 20 years ago.  Make all the western teams the NL and all the eastern teams the AL.  I'm stunned they didn't follow through with it.  Under Bud Selig, you will never go broke wagering that MLB will do the dumbest thing possible.

11/17/11   |   ML31   |   3671 respect

scquwi1 wrote:
I am so with you on this. why move the Astros who have been in the NL since 1962. Move the Brewers back where they were and all ready had rivalries, which really does not matter much now with inter league play any how. Now I am waiting for the day MLB really goes off the deep end by merging the AL and NL then placing then in 8 divisions.
Go something like this
EAST (Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Philles, Pirates) Mid Atlantic (Nationals, Orioles, Braves, Ray, Marlins), Mid West (BlueJays, Tigers, Twins, Brewers, White Sox), Central (Cardinals, Royals, Indians, Cubs, Reds)              South ( Astros, Rangers, D-Backs, Rockies, Padres)     West ( Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, Giants, A's)

With all the IL play required with 15 teams in each league it only adds to mountain of reasons to abandon the two leagues.  No more league presidents.  No more league offices.  No more separate AL and NL umpires...  And now IL play 24/7.

Adding wild card teams doesn't make things any worse.  They already ruined the season when they added it in 1994.  They may as well have 24 playoff teams.

I'm guessing that Bud Selig has no desire for baseball to become the nation's #1 sport again.  Almost every major change made under his rule seems designed to make the game less relevant. 

11/17/11   |   scquwi1   |   1227 respect

I am so with you on this. why move the Astros who have been in the NL since 1962. Move the Brewers back where they were and all ready had rivalries, which really does not matter much now with inter league play any how. Now I am waiting for the day MLB really goes off the deep end by merging the AL and NL then placing then in 8 divisions.
Go something like this
EAST (Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Philles, Pirates) Mid Atlantic (Nationals, Orioles, Braves, Ray, Marlins), Mid West (BlueJays, Tigers, Twins, Brewers, White Sox), Central (Cardinals, Royals, Indians, Cubs, Reds)              South ( Astros, Rangers, D-Backs, Rockies, Padres)     West ( Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, Giants, A's)

11/17/11   |   kramer   |   11004 respect

I'm with you, can't they send the Brew-crew back to where they came from?  Just when Pittsburgh starting to take advantage of the Astros going down the crapper, they decide to switch leagues.  That's just great.