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10/18/09
What is the Infatuation With Bill Parcells?
I have always wondered this, and living in South Florida, there is a common thought process...whatever the Tuna does, it is good. 
Here are his numbers: 
  • Regular season: 172-130-1 (0.569)
  • Playoffs: 11-8 - 2 Super Bowl Rings with the Giants
Compare those to say, Bill Cowher:
  • Regular Season: 149-91-1 (0.623)
  • Playoffs: 12-9 - 1 Super Bowl Ring
Each spawned many NFL head coaches, but only a few were successful. Parcells is of course known for Bill Belichick, who has in his own right spawned many, many coaches. Personally, assistants who become head coaches is not really a worthwhile measuring stick. 

I guess the big thing about Parcells is that he "turns" things around. When he came to Miami, the Dolphins had just finished a 1-15 season. He cleaned house, brought in 20 no name free agents, and drafted Jake Long with the #1 pick and Chad Henne . The rest of that class has not really done too much, and I for one, don't think the Dolphins will finish better than 8-8 this year, although I may re-think that prediction. 

The Cowboys: Do I even need to rehash that part of his career? In fairness, he was working for Jerry Jones who is a delusional ego maniac who thinks he channels the football genius of Vince Lombardi and Nute Rockney combined. Still, his record there: 34-30, 2 wild card playoff appearances and 2 losses. 

The Jet years: 29-19. He inherited a 1-15 team. They were in the playoffs two years later, making it to the AFC Championship. Next season, they went 8-8 and he left for retirement after one more year as GM where the Jets finished 9-7 and out of the playoffs. 

The Patriots: 32-32. A Super Bowl loss, and one other playoff wild card loss. In 1993, he took over for a, yes, 2-14 team. In 2 years the team was in the playoffs, had a terrible season, then made it to the Super Bowl, losing to the Packers.

Yes, I get that he took over for teams that were terrible, and made them winning franchises, but how do we define winning? Making it as wild cards, division titles, Super Bowl appearances or Lombardis? 

Using the Cowher example, he took over for a 7-9 team. Hardly devoid of talent to be fair. Yet Cowher won the division 5 out of the first 6 years in Pittsburgh...making the playoffs all 6. Then we had the dark ages, 3 straight years with no playoffs, followed by another run of 4 out of the next 5 years, culminating with the SB XL. In those 4 playoff years, the Steelers won the division 3 times. The only wild card, they went on to be the first 6th seed to win it all. 

So, is the allure that he is Mr. Magic Turn Around Guy? Or is he a pretty damn smart guy and take jobs that he knows he can work his magic. Could he do the same with say, the St. Louis Rams or Cleveland Browns? I doubt it, those teams need a lot of help. The Raiders? Certainly, as long as you could get Al Davis thrown in the loony bin for his JaMarcus Experiment and bring in even an average QB (With Garcia, I bet the Raiders could have been 0.500 or darn close). Now, the team is lost and just does not care. 

As we often point out here, football is an extremely complex game. It takes so much to build a winning franchise. It is why organizations like Pittsburgh, Philly and New England are praised for putting competitive teams on the field every year, even in the salary cap era. You need the right coaches, the right players, the right leaders and then you need some luck...no injuries, the right bounces, etc. 

Parcells likes familiarity, and often brings in those who have worked under him in the past, coaches or assistants, or players. Remember the Cowboys and Bledsoe, Glenn, Keyshawn, etc. 

Since the NFL realignment, we know how schedules can affect parity. There are definite "weak" divisions, and strong ones. A 1-15 team, like the Dolphins, who get to play the "weak" divisions, and two last place teams, can have incredible rebound season. What the Dolphins do this season will either add or temper his legacy in my opinion. I can't see the Tuna hanging around much longer down here, with the ownership looking like some bad latin-pop festival. Anyone with a spare million can buy a minority interest in this team. Is it worth having this guy come in and do things his way, get a year of success (albeit marginal if your goal is to win it all) and then see him "retire." 

Anyway, please, give me some opinions on where you see Parcells in the list of coaches and GM's. It just seems like the media just gushes over this guy, who again, is certainly a good coach, but I just think the level he is placed on is not really deserving. I'd like to hear from the fans of those teams who experienced the "turnarounds" and what he accomplished, and what it was like pre- and post- Tuna.
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10/18/09
3
(Edited by billywa)
What's the infatuation with Bill Parcells?

Other than the fact that he's won everywhere he's been, perhaps, some NFL owner are so-called "chubby chasers?"

10/18/09
3
(Edited by MarkTheShark)
Uh, which coaches did Bill Cowher spawn?
What's your problem with adding minority ownership? I think it is smart as hell. You infuse cash into your franchise and gain flexibility in control over it. I didn't know Serena or Venus or Jimmy Buffet were Latin?
You kinda made the points yourself. Parcells is a very good personnel man, as evidenced by your numbers: he's turned three DIFFERENT horrible teams into contenders in less than two years. That is NOT easy. Ask Tony Dungy.

10/18/09
0
Like Mark said, you've made a lot of points yourself.  I'm more interested in who you think WOULD deserve more praise over the same time period (besides Cowher, who was always with the same team, which makes what Parcells has done with so many different teams that much more impressive)

10/18/09
1
(Edited by Flone87)
 I guess the big thing is it is like he gives up, walks away, or gets tired and leaves...never bringing a championship to those great "turnarounds." And what happens to those teams when he leaves? Do they keep the guys he brings in, let them go....

The coach spawn thing is the silliest argument...Did Cowher make Whisenhunt & Grimm great coaches? In fact, Cowher, IMO, was a terrible X's & O's guy, but a heck of a motivator, and was surrounded by good coaches. Does anyone think that possibly Belichick was going to be a good coach no matter who he was under? We all learn from others, or at least we should, but its what we do with what we learn that matters. 

I guess being down here, I hear it so much more. I just don't see it the excessive praising...if the Dolphins go 8-8 this year, and he walks away...just seems to be the MO...he never seems to get them over the hump. 







10/18/09
1
(Edited by mdolp1)
Have you seen what the dolphins have done in just the past two drafts? He is laying the foundation to a great team! In two seasons he has infused this team with more talent than the past three coaching/general manager have! Start with last seasons draft, Jake Long, Chad Henne, Kendall Lanford, Phillip Merling, Donald Thomas, all starters and very productive players! Then twinkle in some nice free agent signings in Duane Starks, and Davone Bess. Then consider what he added this year in Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Pat White, Chris Clemons, Brian Hartline. This team was so dereft of talent and he has added solid players who are helping to not only make it a better team but mold it into a physical tough team that is built to last and be successful in the long run! If he sticks around to finish what he has started this team will be good for years to come!  

10/18/09
1
I respect what Parcells has done.  He deserves the kudos he gets.  I do wonder how it would be a touch different if Scott Norwood hits the field goal for Buffalo and Parcells only has one Super Bowl Championship?

10/18/09
3
(Edited by billywa)
What's the infatuation with Bill Parcells?

Other than the fact that he's won everywhere he's been, perhaps, some NFL owner are so-called "chubby chasers?"

10/18/09
2
Parcells is a good coach, not a great coach. I wanted the Browns, to hire him as GM. But  they got Mankirk as GM; then I thought, "Forget it."

10/19/09
1
The MAN is a profit, all of his disciples has gone on to do great things. GOOO GIANTS...lol

10/19/09
1
(Edited by Flone87)
 And that is my point...aside from the delusional Dolphin fan (who proves my point about his perception down here in S.Fla)...it is way too early to call those draft classes great...the dolphins are going to struggle to go 8-8. If you drop off from 11-5 to 8-8, is that a successful step in the rebuild? Or, is playing a more difficult schedule going to expose that this team had a weak schedule last season and won many, many close games..

And again, does anyone think Bill Parcells, or any head coach, makes his assistants in to great head coaches? I do not think that it has that much to do with it. You may pick up things, but you have your own football mind and identity. I think Mike Tomlin is a great example. Bill Belichcick...stint with the Brownvens did not go so well, but the Pats thing has...granted, knowing what the other team is running makes it a lot easier to coach....

Again, my argument is that he is perceived as this incredible guru, but, 2 Super Bowls with the Giants...and any of us could have coached LT, Carsons, Banks, Marshall, Pepper Johnson, and Joe Morris, Bavaro, etc...to victory! His second, as pointed out, was Scott Norwood...

How do we judge true greatness? Championships? I think BP would be much more impressive had he taken any of these "turnaround" teams to the Super Bowl and won it instead of just getting them into the playoffs a couple times.

Oh, and I though Cowher out thought himself so often in the AFC Championship games....he was not a good strategy guy at all but a great motivator.  Who is deserving of praise? At this point, there are so few teams that have any sort of legacy, with the same people in place, that it is difficult...but, certainly you have to give the nod to people involved in the franchises I mentioned...Kevin Colbert of the Steelers is a great GM...Obviously the Patriots as well, build winners year in and year out. Other than that, you have the Eagles...anyone I am forgetting? Giants probably, draft well, make smart moves. And Al Davis...see, you knew JaMarcus could do it! 


10/19/09
1
Flone87 wrote:
 And that is my point...aside from the delusional Dolphin fan (who proves my point about his perception down here in S.Fla)...it is way too early to call those draft classes great...the dolphins are going to struggle to go 8-8. If you drop off from 11-5 to 8-8, is that a successful step in the rebuild? Or, is playing a more difficult schedule going to expose that this team had a weak schedule last season and won many, many close games..

And again, does anyone think Bill Parcells, or any head coach, makes his assistants in to great head coaches? I do not think that it has that much to do with it. You may pick up things, but you have your own football mind and identity. I think Mike Tomlin is a great example. Bill Belichcick...stint with the Brownvens did not go so well, but the Pats thing has...granted, knowing what the other team is running makes it a lot easier to coach....

Again, my argument is that he is perceived as this incredible guru, but, 2 Super Bowls with the Giants...and any of us could have coached LT, Carsons, Banks, Marshall, Pepper Johnson, and Joe Morris, Bavaro, etc...to victory! His second, as pointed out, was Scott Norwood...

How do we judge true greatness? Championships? I think BP would be much more impressive had he taken any of these "turnaround" teams to the Super Bowl and won it instead of just getting them into the playoffs a couple times.

Oh, and I though Cowher out thought himself so often in the AFC Championship games....he was not a good strategy guy at all but a great motivator.  Who is deserving of praise? At this point, there are so few teams that have any sort of legacy, with the same people in place, that it is difficult...but, certainly you have to give the nod to people involved in the franchises I mentioned...Kevin Colbert of the Steelers is a great GM...Obviously the Patriots as well, build winners year in and year out. Other than that, you have the Eagles...anyone I am forgetting? Giants probably, draft well, make smart moves. And Al Davis...see, you knew JaMarcus could do it! 

I didn't understand the vague reference to Tomlin??
I think you are hung up on Parcells being over-rated??
He sorta is, because he only won two SB (Belichick, Noll, Landry, Walsh more)...but in the big picture he IS one helluva personnel man and a great motivator

10/19/09
2
Great evaluator of talent, great TEACHER, (used to be) a good motivator, average X's and O's guy.

He knows how to find talent in unlikely places, knows how to judge QBs. But Belicheck is the Xs and Os guy clearly, where Bill was a better evaluator and teacher. He's in a great spot right now as a personnel guy.

10/26/09
0
Parcells is the best thing that has happened to the Fins since Huizenga brought in Jimmy Johnson, who absolutely DESTROYED everthing good about them.

 
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