Brady-Palmer air show is among key matchups in Week 4

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This comment was voted poor quality by FanIQ (Show anyway)

550 days ago

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(Edited 01/03/08 11:39PM by MrNFL)
dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL: You are retarded. Two years ago, the Steelers were heavily injured. James Farrior, Larry Foote and Big Ben weren't. They won the Super Bowl. And now you think a team that has never been to the Bowl is going into Pgh. and is going to win two games against Pgh. within a month? Predicting football is about "instinct." Don't bet on your "instinct." Your thoughts sound good and you should not hand over money in furtherance of them. You are not a student of history, nor do you know anything about stepping up in the playoffs. Nothing person. I like your writing style. However, don't waste your money and bet. If you want to bet, however, I will start you off at 100g and you need not give me the 2 points. Dobieco.

I am retarded? That's mature. And no nothing about stepping up in the playoffs? Hmmm, funny.

Give me a good reason why am wrong. Give me a football reason. Something happening two years ago is pretty irrelevant.

550 days ago

Pat

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dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL: You are retarded. Two years ago, the Steelers were heavily injured. James Farrior, Larry Foote and Big Ben weren't. They won the Super Bowl. And now you think a team that has never been to the Bowl is going into Pgh. and is going to win two games against Pgh. within a month? Predicting football is about "instinct." Don't bet on your "instinct." Your thoughts sound good and you should not hand over money in furtherance of them. You are not a student of history, nor do you know anything about stepping up in the playoffs. Nothing person. I like your writing style. However, don't waste your money and bet. If you want to bet, however, I will start you off at 100g and you need not give me the 2 points. Dobieco.

Hilarious, but I'd be shocked if the Steelers suddenly "stepped up in the playoffs", after playing their worst football down the stretch, and losing their star RB. They've been playing pretty badly as of late, and there is really no reason to believe that will change. The Jaguars outplayed them on their own field a few weeks ago, and look poised to do it again, but maybe worse. Good luck, but I don't see the Steelers making it out of Pittsburgh this year.

550 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL: You are retarded. Two years ago, the Steelers were heavily injured. James Farrior, Larry Foote and Big Ben weren't. They won the Super Bowl. And now you think a team that has never been to the Bowl is going into Pgh. and is going to win two games against Pgh. within a month? Predicting football is about "instinct." Don't bet on your "instinct." Your thoughts sound good and you should not hand over money in furtherance of them. You are not a student of history, nor do you know anything about stepping up in the playoffs. Nothing person. I like your writing style. However, don't waste your money and bet. If you want to bet, however, I will start you off at 100g and you need not give me the 2 points. Dobieco.

Why do people like you give Steeler fans a bad name?

549 days ago

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MrNFL wrote:

I am retarded? That's mature. And no nothing about stepping up in the playoffs? Hmmm, funny.

Give me a good reason why am wrong. Give me a football reason. Something happening two years ago is pretty irrelevant.

Your evaluation of the game was pretty much dead on, the Steelers have been playing poorly lately and if I wasn't a fan might think differently. I'll give a few reasons that I fell the Steelers will fair better than most think

1) Roethlisberger has had a much needed rest after being pounded all year long

2)Having Polamalu back in the lineup will help the secondary, Anthony "big mouth" Smith has been like a rookie back there.

3) The Steelers should have both Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes in the lineup and somewhat healthy for this game. Their play action has suffered greatly without the deep threat of Holmes.

4)The Steelers have played well at home this year and I don't seem them losing there twice to anyone.

Whether or not they go deep in the playoffs, I still see them making it out of Pittsburgh.

549 days ago

CriticalFanatic

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Pretty simple formula: "Contain" Jags running game and protect Big Ben and the Steelers win. Fail to accomplish either and it's a rout.

I do, however, think it's worth noting that home field in the playoffs is a different animal than during the regular season. I expect a solid effort from Pitt in a close win.

549 days ago

Pat

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CriticalFanatic wrote:

Pretty simple formula: "Contain" Jags running game and protect Big Ben and the Steelers win. Fail to accomplish either and it's a rout.

I do, however, think it's worth noting that home field in the playoffs is a different animal than during the regular season. I expect a solid effort from Pitt in a close win.

"I expect a solid effort from Pitt in a close win."

Of course you do. And FYI, accomplishing that "pretty simple formula" is a lot easier said than done. Especially with all of the injuries that the Steelers have had. There is nothing stopping the Jags from putting all kinds of pressure on Big Ben, and they haven't been containing ANYONE's running game all that well lately, with the exception of the Patriots, who didn't even bother trying, because they didn't have to.

Home field is all they've got going for them in this one, and I doubt it will be enough.

549 days ago

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dallas78 wrote:

Why do people like you give Steeler fans a bad name?

If you think Steeler fans "have a bad name," you are showing your youth and lack of knowledge. Before you were born, there was no "Steeler Nation." At the Super Bowl two years ago (I was there, in the owner's box), the entire stadium was black and gold. 50% of those people HAVE NEVER BEEN TO PITTSBURGH. We are a Steeler Nation, but 40 years ago nobody knew us. It started with people like Mean Joe (the Greatest Football player to ever live), Blount, Wagner, Shell, Harris, Bradshaw. It almost died whilst Cowher lost 4 home AFC Championship games, but he broke through. Steeler players say what is on their mind and if somebody speaks their mind about football it is all in fun. You are not really a Steeler Fan. You are just jumping on the train we built years ago. Enjoy the ride . . . and allow Steeler Fans to be themselves during game time. Otherwise, you may find yourself kicked out of a Steeler Sports Bar or two. "Steeler Fans a bad name?" When Cowher chanted "Why Dey" 2 years ago, yes, it pissed people off -- but he was doing it to motivate his own. That is Steeler Nation. I see "Dallas" in your title. Go back to Dallas. In the 70s, they were known as America's Team, but their wining and political correctness has stripped them of that title. Think about it. They've won 5 super bowls, but now there are six teams the nation rallies around and they are not one of them. I will bring 50 people on this board who will set you straight -- and then maybe you will actually learn where Steeler Nation came from and why. (You might want to listen to a Charley Daniels Band song from 1979 to begin to understand the attitude that goes along with Steeler Nation. Tell us in Steeler Nation when you've listened to it . . . and when you get it.)

549 days ago

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dallas78 wrote:

Your evaluation of the game was pretty much dead on, the Steelers have been playing poorly lately and if I wasn't a fan might think differently. I'll give a few reasons that I fell the Steelers will fair better than most think

1) Roethlisberger has had a much needed rest after being pounded all year long

2)Having Polamalu back in the lineup will help the secondary, Anthony "big mouth" Smith has been like a rookie back there.

3) The Steelers should have both Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes in the lineup and somewhat healthy for this game. Their play action has suffered greatly without the deep threat of Holmes.

4)The Steelers have played well at home this year and I don't seem them losing there twice to anyone.

Whether or not they go deep in the playoffs, I still see them making it out of Pittsburgh.

Mr. NFL:

After getting criticized by the Dallas fan, he lists some good reasons that a freshman would list. I go back to 2 years ago. Sorry.   You asked me not to do it and said it was irrelevant. I'm doing it anyway. I believe in HISTORY. Do you? There were years Joe Montana's team was bad, and then they "stepped up" in the playoffs. New England? They are the poster child for this. In the Bradshaw era, they said in 1977 (hey, Dallas, your boys won the Super Bowl that year; wonder why they are not still America's team) that the Steelers "were done." Bradshaw then won two more Super Bowls and set records that have yet to be broken. Yes, that ole' history. The history is this: Since the drafting of Terry Bradshaw, no team has visited Pittsburgh EVER and beat the Club twice within a month. NEVER. That is my statistic, and it included Steeler teams with quarterbacks like Mark Malone, Neil O'Donnell, etc. Here, Ben is playing -- not Malone. Ben has already shocked the world once in the playoffs, and that was 24 months ago. And JAX has never even won a Super Bowl. There are 22 Super Bowl champions on the Steelers' roster. If these are not football reasons to you, then you do not understand football. I'll bet on history.   Are you ready to put up your money?

P.S.   Your writing in the latest post was not as good as your first post. Stepping up in the playoffs was what Ben did 2 years ago when he went into the playoffs and bombed the heavily favored Colts after they crushed him 6 weeks earlier (sound familiar). The past matters. After having watched Montana complete a touchdown drive late in the game to win two Super Bowls (both against Cincinnati), would you ever bet against him to do it again? Not unless you were born on Neptune. He had dozens of 4th quarter come backs. You can try to ignore recent history, NFL history, Big Ben home field history, players' history, Steeler history, JAX history in the playoffs, and most importantly playoff experience -- of which JAX essentially has none . My response is: Are you ready to put up your money behind that analysis?

In terms of the purported Steeler fan called Dallas, I am not responding to any more of his posts until he learns how to spell.

Your only good point is how beat up the Steelers are. Injuries DO matter. I have looked at the injuries. If Ben and Troy are healthy, the other injuries won't matter. JAX has some key injuries too. But, if Ben and Troy are not healthy, then and only then do I see your point. Injuries are always the intangible and these are the two key Steeler players FOR THE JACKSONVILLE GAME. (They will have different keys if they hope to go further into the playoffs.)

Lastly, about your comment "hmmm funny." Answer: Cover Sports Illustrated, January 23, 2006. Photo - Big Ben. Subtitle: "Stepping up under pressure." Yeah. I guess you are right. I really did chuckle somewhat when Big Ben went on the road and took the three touchdown lead against the powerful Colts.   Oh, now I see what you meant by "hmmm funny." Yes, thank you. A good time was had by all in Steeler Nation. Rough to bet against that Big Ben . . . but we only have to wait one day to see reality unfold. And, as I've said, nobody can predict the unpredictable -- this is, after all, football.

549 days ago

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Pat wrote:

Hilarious, but I'd be shocked if the Steelers suddenly "stepped up in the playoffs", after playing their worst football down the stretch, and losing their star RB. They've been playing pretty badly as of late, and there is really no reason to believe that will change. The Jaguars outplayed them on their own field a few weeks ago, and look poised to do it again, but maybe worse. Good luck, but I don't see the Steelers making it out of Pittsburgh this year.

Even though Pat is a Patriots fan -- the opposite of a Steelers fan -- he identifies the real worry of every Steeler fan this Saturday night. That is, that it is tough to step up under pressure after playing the "worst football down the stretch." The "losing their star RB" is of no moment to me because Parker gains a lot of yards during "slop time." (Yes, yes, yes, I remember him breaking the big one in the Super Bowl, but that was an abberation; the Steelers run in 2005 was Jerome Bettis running through the mud -- Jerome the "mudder".) Bottom line is that Pat has identified the biggest problem that the other novices simply don't see -- COACHING. Why couldn't the Steelers beat Denver? Why not Arizona? Why not the Jets? I understand losing to New England who is on a quest. But why all the other games? It is always disheartening to have to wait for a Patriots' team to give the only simple but correct analysis. But that is what Pat did. After having said all that, there are too many Super Bowl champions left on the field for this game to pick JAX. It is kind of like betting against Brady even after an off year -- just tough to do because you know what is going to happen.

P.S. I am glad you enjoyed the post; found it "hilarious." That is what these boards are for. Your analysis is good and the truth will play itself out on Saturday evening. I think there is still some fuel in the tank, but I am most worried -- not about injuries (except Ben or Troy), not about JAX, not about their running game, but about COACHING. Tomlin is untested and unproven. He has managed some terrible games, particularly the one against the Jets that caused 40 Steeler fans to line up outside of Heines Stadium and simultaneously vomit the Tuesday after the game (google the photograph on u tube).

My prediction, notwithstanding the above, is that the better quarterback always wins, that the athletes always win, that the Steelers are better in both areas, that the champions always "remember" where they came from, and that the Steelers will look more like they did when they crushed Seattle than when they aborted the game of football against the Jets.

Good luck.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

If you think Steeler fans "have a bad name," you are showing your youth and lack of knowledge. Before you were born, there was no "Steeler Nation." At the Super Bowl two years ago (I was there, in the owner's box), the entire stadium was black and gold. 50% of those people HAVE NEVER BEEN TO PITTSBURGH. We are a Steeler Nation, but 40 years ago nobody knew us. It started with people like Mean Joe (the Greatest Football player to ever live), Blount, Wagner, Shell, Harris, Bradshaw. It almost died whilst Cowher lost 4 home AFC Championship games, but he broke through. Steeler players say what is on their mind and if somebody speaks their mind about football it is all in fun. You are not really a Steeler Fan. You are just jumping on the train we built years ago. Enjoy the ride . . . and allow Steeler Fans to be themselves during game time. Otherwise, you may find yourself kicked out of a Steeler Sports Bar or two. "Steeler Fans a bad name?" When Cowher chanted "Why Dey" 2 years ago, yes, it pissed people off -- but he was doing it to motivate his own. That is Steeler Nation. I see "Dallas" in your title. Go back to Dallas. In the 70s, they were known as America's Team, but their wining and political correctness has stripped them of that title. Think about it. They've won 5 super bowls, but now there are six teams the nation rallies around and they are not one of them. I will bring 50 people on this board who will set you straight -- and then maybe you will actually learn where Steeler Nation came from and why. (You might want to listen to a Charley Daniels Band song from 1979 to begin to understand the attitude that goes along with Steeler Nation. Tell us in Steeler Nation when you've listened to it . . . and when you get it.)

1) I said YOU are giving Steeler fans a bad name, specifically on this board. Case in point, you called Mr. NFL retarded on your 4th post, after he was the one who took the time to write and submit an article to make this site better. What have you done to contribute besides calling people names?

2)Bandwagon? Hilarious, son, I was born in Western Pa, as was my entire family. I have probably missed five Steeler games since '88. I'm sorry I was not around for the glory days of the '70s, but if that's the only qualification for being a true fan, then you are a dying breed. Nice history lesson on the "Stillers" though, I was completely unaware of their historical success.

3) Very keen observation that my name is Dallas and I like Pittsburgh. You Sir are a Rocket Surgeon

549 days ago

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dallas78 wrote:

1) I said YOU are giving Steeler fans a bad name, specifically on this board. Case in point, you called Mr. NFL retarded on your 4th post, after he was the one who took the time to write and submit an article to make this site better. What have you done to contribute besides calling people names?

2)Bandwagon? Hilarious, son, I was born in Western Pa, as was my entire family. I have probably missed five Steeler games since '88. I'm sorry I was not around for the glory days of the '70s, but if that's the only qualification for being a true fan, then you are a dying breed. Nice history lesson on the "Stillers" though, I was completely unaware of their historical success.

3) Very keen observation that my name is Dallas and I like Pittsburgh. You Sir are a Rocket Surgeon

Texas:

You lie in the first paragraph in your latest missive.

You DID NOT limit your statement to ME.

You said "people like you give Steeler fans a bad name" as if this was an occurring phenomenon. What other Steeler fan have you seen "like me" that has given "Steeler fans a bad name." What did they do? Did they say "who dey?" What are you doing? What are you talking about? What is a skinny post? What is a post? What is a cover 2? What is a 2-1? What year did the pro goal posts get moved to the back of the end zone? What were the rule changes in 2001 that made it even easier to throw the football and signaled the beginning of the Brady era? What is a "red dog." What is a "check off red dog?" (Google answers to these questions are wrong in each respect.) Although it is far easier to throw the football today than before you were born, why was the single highest passing yards per game recorded in 1960? What happened in that game to cause more than 500 yards to be completed by one quarterback? Given that you were born in Western Pennsylvania, what other significant event happened for you and your family and the City of Pgh. in 1960? Where is home plate of Forbes Field currently located? How many sluggers hit home runs into the upper deck of Three Rivers Stadium? How many transplanted Texans does it take to screw in a light bulb? How many surgeons have ever flown in a rocket? If the answer is none, is there an actual phrase in acceptable English called "rocket surgeon?" If the answer is not none, please name the surgeon and the rocket and the date of take off that was the birthplace of the well-known phrase "rocket surgeon." After you complete these tasks, look up the term "rocket scientist." Then read your last post to me. Because you have not missed a Steeler game since 1988 and do not like talking about history, what was the name of the Steeler's punter in 1989? Did this punter have any relatives that ever made it into the Hall of Fame in any sport?

Because all of the Steeler glory days are available on video tape and are replayed monthly on NFL networks or ESPN, we all know you have seen them. Or at least we hope you have. Thus, it does not represent sarcasm for you to say you were "completely unaware of their historical success." It is sad-ism. Why are you winking at me? That makes me feel uncomfortable. Are you a woman? If you are, are you good looking? If so, I will change my tune about you. Perhaps we can exchange photos. And then . . . who knows? However, if you are a man, please stop winking at me.

In fact, in view of the retardation, the lying, the inability to understand humor, the typographical errors, the first use ever of the new preposterous term "rocket surgeon," and the winking, please stop rooting for any team from Pittsburgh. I will pay you to do it. I believe you may be the cause of the Pirates not winning a World Series since 1979 (nearly the time of your birth; some sort of omen?). And, you are certainly the reason for the loss this year to the Jets. Do you know what that resulted in? You caused 40 true Steeler fans to stand in a line and simultaneously vomit outside of the stadium.

Now, for the analysis and then I am done with you -- except that I WILL PAY YOU if you stop rooting for the Steelers. I'm talking a lot of money here, so don't give up on the offer without thinking. Name your price. I will have a verification procedure; will contact DSS to block Steeler games from your home; and we will have a written contract with penalties in it if you root in any way, shape or form for our beloved Steelers. Anyway, the analysis is this:

The Steelers coach is suspect until he is not suspect. No coach would avoid suspicion if he took a recent Super Bowl champion and lost to three teams with combined records of 16-32. The biggest difference between 2005 and now is the coach (and injuries). These are the problems and represent the risk of loss against JAX. I nonetheless believe this coach will turn out OK and that Big Ben is the better quarterback. Thus, I choose to root for the Steelers. And having met you through your words, I choose to pay you to root for the Dolphins this year -- and any other team except for the Steelers in future years. Please name your price. Thank you for your humorous incompetence.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Texas:

You lie in the first paragraph in your latest missive.

You DID NOT limit your statement to ME.

You said "people like you give Steeler fans a bad name" as if this was an occurring phenomenon. What other Steeler fan have you seen "like me" that has given "Steeler fans a bad name." What did they do? Did they say "who dey?" What are you doing? What are you talking about? What is a skinny post? What is a post? What is a cover 2? What is a 2-1? What year did the pro goal posts get moved to the back of the end zone? What were the rule changes in 2001 that made it even easier to throw the football and signaled the beginning of the Brady era? What is a "red dog." What is a "check off red dog?" (Google answers to these questions are wrong in each respect.) Although it is far easier to throw the football today than before you were born, why was the single highest passing yards per game recorded in 1960? What happened in that game to cause more than 500 yards to be completed by one quarterback? Given that you were born in Western Pennsylvania, what other significant event happened for you and your family and the City of Pgh. in 1960? Where is home plate of Forbes Field currently located? How many sluggers hit home runs into the upper deck of Three Rivers Stadium? How many transplanted Texans does it take to screw in a light bulb? How many surgeons have ever flown in a rocket? If the answer is none, is there an actual phrase in acceptable English called "rocket surgeon?" If the answer is not none, please name the surgeon and the rocket and the date of take off that was the birthplace of the well-known phrase "rocket surgeon." After you complete these tasks, look up the term "rocket scientist." Then read your last post to me. Because you have not missed a Steeler game since 1988 and do not like talking about history, what was the name of the Steeler's punter in 1989? Did this punter have any relatives that ever made it into the Hall of Fame in any sport?

Because all of the Steeler glory days are available on video tape and are replayed monthly on NFL networks or ESPN, we all know you have seen them. Or at least we hope you have. Thus, it does not represent sarcasm for you to say you were "completely unaware of their historical success." It is sad-ism. Why are you winking at me? That makes me feel uncomfortable. Are you a woman? If you are, are you good looking? If so, I will change my tune about you. Perhaps we can exchange photos. And then . . . who knows? However, if you are a man, please stop winking at me.

In fact, in view of the retardation, the lying, the inability to understand humor, the typographical errors, the first use ever of the new preposterous term "rocket surgeon," and the winking, please stop rooting for any team from Pittsburgh. I will pay you to do it. I believe you may be the cause of the Pirates not winning a World Series since 1979 (nearly the time of your birth; some sort of omen?). And, you are certainly the reason for the loss this year to the Jets. Do you know what that resulted in? You caused 40 true Steeler fans to stand in a line and simultaneously vomit outside of the stadium.

Now, for the analysis and then I am done with you -- except that I WILL PAY YOU if you stop rooting for the Steelers. I'm talking a lot of money here, so don't give up on the offer without thinking. Name your price. I will have a verification procedure; will contact DSS to block Steeler games from your home; and we will have a written contract with penalties in it if you root in any way, shape or form for our beloved Steelers. Anyway, the analysis is this:

The Steelers coach is suspect until he is not suspect. No coach would avoid suspicion if he took a recent Super Bowl champion and lost to three teams with combined records of 16-32. The biggest difference between 2005 and now is the coach (and injuries). These are the problems and represent the risk of loss against JAX. I nonetheless believe this coach will turn out OK and that Big Ben is the better quarterback. Thus, I choose to root for the Steelers. And having met you through your words, I choose to pay you to root for the Dolphins this year -- and any other team except for the Steelers in future years. Please name your price. Thank you for your humorous incompetence.

When I said " people like you" I meant obnoxious, which you have pretty much shown by this post. I don't even know where to begin, nothing of what you said could even be considered a complete rational thought. BTW, I am well aware of a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist as being two different professions, but I guess that was way over your head also.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL:

After getting criticized by the Dallas fan, he lists some good reasons that a freshman would list. I go back to 2 years ago. Sorry.   You asked me not to do it and said it was irrelevant. I'm doing it anyway. I believe in HISTORY. Do you? There were years Joe Montana's team was bad, and then they "stepped up" in the playoffs. New England? They are the poster child for this. In the Bradshaw era, they said in 1977 (hey, Dallas, your boys won the Super Bowl that year; wonder why they are not still America's team) that the Steelers "were done." Bradshaw then won two more Super Bowls and set records that have yet to be broken. Yes, that ole' history. The history is this: Since the drafting of Terry Bradshaw, no team has visited Pittsburgh EVER and beat the Club twice within a month. NEVER. That is my statistic, and it included Steeler teams with quarterbacks like Mark Malone, Neil O'Donnell, etc. Here, Ben is playing -- not Malone. Ben has already shocked the world once in the playoffs, and that was 24 months ago. And JAX has never even won a Super Bowl. There are 22 Super Bowl champions on the Steelers' roster. If these are not football reasons to you, then you do not understand football. I'll bet on history.   Are you ready to put up your money?

P.S.   Your writing in the latest post was not as good as your first post. Stepping up in the playoffs was what Ben did 2 years ago when he went into the playoffs and bombed the heavily favored Colts after they crushed him 6 weeks earlier (sound familiar). The past matters. After having watched Montana complete a touchdown drive late in the game to win two Super Bowls (both against Cincinnati), would you ever bet against him to do it again? Not unless you were born on Neptune. He had dozens of 4th quarter come backs. You can try to ignore recent history, NFL history, Big Ben home field history, players' history, Steeler history, JAX history in the playoffs, and most importantly playoff experience -- of which JAX essentially has none . My response is: Are you ready to put up your money behind that analysis?

In terms of the purported Steeler fan called Dallas, I am not responding to any more of his posts until he learns how to spell.

Your only good point is how beat up the Steelers are. Injuries DO matter. I have looked at the injuries. If Ben and Troy are healthy, the other injuries won't matter. JAX has some key injuries too. But, if Ben and Troy are not healthy, then and only then do I see your point. Injuries are always the intangible and these are the two key Steeler players FOR THE JACKSONVILLE GAME. (They will have different keys if they hope to go further into the playoffs.)

Lastly, about your comment "hmmm funny." Answer: Cover Sports Illustrated, January 23, 2006. Photo - Big Ben. Subtitle: "Stepping up under pressure." Yeah. I guess you are right. I really did chuckle somewhat when Big Ben went on the road and took the three touchdown lead against the powerful Colts.   Oh, now I see what you meant by "hmmm funny." Yes, thank you. A good time was had by all in Steeler Nation. Rough to bet against that Big Ben . . . but we only have to wait one day to see reality unfold. And, as I've said, nobody can predict the unpredictable -- this is, after all, football.

Ok, I have go through this novel of a comment...

1, History isn't too terribly relevant. HISTORY showed that teams don't go unbeaten, but New England did it. History showed that the Buccaneers never return kicks for TD's, but they did it. History is always changing. That's a great statistic if true about them never being beaten twice in a month, but history is made to change.

2, You, like many, worship the QB position blindly. Ben, hell Montana and Bradshaw and any other QB, are useless if they do not get blocking. The Steelers pass blocking has been suspect all year, and now they are without two starting tackles. And remember, Jacksonville has been in the playoffs as recently as the Steelers. You talk about the playoff experience of the players, but the head coach, Tomlin, has no playoff experience.

3, Ben can be healthy, but if he's slammed on the turf on every play, he won't be effective regardless of how healthy he is. Polamalu being healthy is important, but they are still without a key lineman in Aaron Smith.

4, I find it funny that you keep saying that Ben won these games, the STEELERS won the games, no one player wins, teams win. Did he play well in the games (other than the Super Bowl) Yes, but he had a great defense and running game as well.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Even though Pat is a Patriots fan -- the opposite of a Steelers fan -- he identifies the real worry of every Steeler fan this Saturday night. That is, that it is tough to step up under pressure after playing the "worst football down the stretch." The "losing their star RB" is of no moment to me because Parker gains a lot of yards during "slop time." (Yes, yes, yes, I remember him breaking the big one in the Super Bowl, but that was an abberation; the Steelers run in 2005 was Jerome Bettis running through the mud -- Jerome the "mudder".) Bottom line is that Pat has identified the biggest problem that the other novices simply don't see -- COACHING. Why couldn't the Steelers beat Denver? Why not Arizona? Why not the Jets? I understand losing to New England who is on a quest. But why all the other games? It is always disheartening to have to wait for a Patriots' team to give the only simple but correct analysis. But that is what Pat did. After having said all that, there are too many Super Bowl champions left on the field for this game to pick JAX. It is kind of like betting against Brady even after an off year -- just tough to do because you know what is going to happen.

P.S. I am glad you enjoyed the post; found it "hilarious." That is what these boards are for. Your analysis is good and the truth will play itself out on Saturday evening. I think there is still some fuel in the tank, but I am most worried -- not about injuries (except Ben or Troy), not about JAX, not about their running game, but about COACHING. Tomlin is untested and unproven. He has managed some terrible games, particularly the one against the Jets that caused 40 Steeler fans to line up outside of Heines Stadium and simultaneously vomit the Tuesday after the game (google the photograph on u tube).

My prediction, notwithstanding the above, is that the better quarterback always wins, that the athletes always win, that the Steelers are better in both areas, that the champions always "remember" where they came from, and that the Steelers will look more like they did when they crushed Seattle than when they aborted the game of football against the Jets.

Good luck.

"The better QB always wins"

Once again, TEAMS win games. For any QB to be successful, he needs a good offensive line, good receivers, and a good running game.

549 days ago

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MrNFL wrote:

Ok, I have go through this novel of a comment...

1, History isn't too terribly relevant. HISTORY showed that teams don't go unbeaten, but New England did it. History showed that the Buccaneers never return kicks for TD's, but they did it. History is always changing. That's a great statistic if true about them never being beaten twice in a month, but history is made to change.

2, You, like many, worship the QB position blindly. Ben, hell Montana and Bradshaw and any other QB, are useless if they do not get blocking. The Steelers pass blocking has been suspect all year, and now they are without two starting tackles. And remember, Jacksonville has been in the playoffs as recently as the Steelers. You talk about the playoff experience of the players, but the head coach, Tomlin, has no playoff experience.

3, Ben can be healthy, but if he's slammed on the turf on every play, he won't be effective regardless of how healthy he is. Polamalu being healthy is important, but they are still without a key lineman in Aaron Smith.

4, I find it funny that you keep saying that Ben won these games, the STEELERS won the games, no one player wins, teams win. Did he play well in the games (other than the Super Bowl) Yes, but he had a great defense and running game as well.

Mr. NFL:

In general, you and I do not disagree about much now that I understand your underlying philosophies. I will respond to each of your numbers seriatim:

1. You would not disagree that history is as relevant as it is. Sometimes very relevant. Other times irrelevant. Would you bet against the history of Tom Brady this year? I would never do it, and I can't stand him. I will be rooting against him every week. But he's been doing this crap for 7 years and he reminds me too much of Montana to bet against him. He does what he does. On the other hand, you are right: History changes. Cases in point throughout NFL history are abound. The "catch" is a classic example of what you are saying. Remember? Dallas (oh, there's that word again) was the perennial champion and San Francisco never, ever beat Dallas. Enter Joe Montana and the "catch." Four Super Bowls later, nobody could deny that history had changed. So -- IMHO -- we are both correct.

2. I do not worship the quarterback position "blindly." I agree that if you surround a great quarterback with horse piles, you get horse piles. But somehow that rarely happens. I dunno why. But if you look throughout history, there are very, very few situations where the better quarterback has lost. There ARE situations where both teams' quarterbacks stunk (2000 Super Bowl) and defenses took over (recent Tampa Bay victory a few years back), but I'm excluding those. However, the better quarterback almost always wins when something is on the line: That is why we know about Van Brocklyn, Unitas, Starr, Namath (Unitas was injured in that 1969 game and didn't play until late in the fourth quarter -- and he almost pulled it out!; hint hint), Dawson, Greise, Bradshaw, Staubach (yes, Bradshaw was better than Staubach -- stronger arm -- but Staubach was better than Morton and so Dallas DID beat the Orange Crush in 77), Plunket, Montana, Simms, Aikman, Young and now Brady. Finishing your number 2, you haven't read the rest of my posts. I have already said I completely agree with you that the weakness and the unknown here is Tomlin. He is very suspect until he is not suspect. I did not like his game management all year, particularly on the road (where you have to be more aggressive). While few are as bad as Cowher was in big games (who loses 4 AFC championship games at home in 8 years?), Tomlin is worrying me. And the problem is not the pass blocking, it is Tomlin and the play calling. There are ways for every offensive line to perform. Pittsburgh should have been calling screens and draws and short slants all year. They have not done it, and I blame Tomlin. So, we basically disagree about the quarterback's importance, with room for agreement in rare situations. We both agree that Tomlin is suspect, but I do not agree with you about the offensive line. E.g., If Brady were Pittsburgh's quarterback, and were calling short passes all game, do you think the NE coaches could make a winner out of Pittsburgh's roster? We'll never know. But I think so.

3. I agree with everything you said on number 3. However, if Tomlin LET'S BEN GO and LET'S BEN THROW ON FIRST DOWN and LET'S THE B.S. STOP ON OFFENSE, Ben will light up the scoreboard. Mark these words. It is no different than 2 years ago except Ben is better now than he was then. In 2005, Cowher, for the first time in Cowher's life, let a quarterback GO. What happened? Deep passes completed on first downs at Indianapolis. 21-0 leads on the road. And suddenly, the running game was wide opened and Parker used his speed to go wild. Next, as to Aaron Smith, important loss. But not a game loser. There is too much talent on that side of the ball to worry about that. The truth will come out on the field, but remember that for every injury Pgh has, JAX has one too and at important positions: e.g., Peterson and Toefield.

4. On who won the playoff games in 2005, that would be . . . the Steelers. Yes, you are right. However, "but for Big Ben," it would have been . . . the Bengals or the Colts or the Broncos. Big Ben was the difference in those games and that was my point. He stunk up the Super Bowl as you've indicated. Now to your real point made earlier in your e mail: THE COACHING IS ALWAYS CRITICAL. IT IS THE INTANGIBLE. BIG BEN WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING 2 YEARS AGO WITHOUT COWHER HAVING LOST THOSE 4 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES, PLUS BLOWING THE DALLAS (woops, there's that word again) SUPER BOWL, and COWHER DECIDING "I'VE GOT A THOROUGHBRED HERE AND I AM LETTING HIM GO LIKE NOLL DID OF BRADSHAW IN 1974." SO THEY LET BIG BEN GO AND HE TOOK THAT TEAM AS FAR AS THEY COULD GO, I.E., ALL THE WAY.

In sum, you raise some good points and I now understand where you are coming from. I still maintain, however, that if Tomlin "let's Ben go" and if a healthy Troy plays in the game, that you will be hearing a lot of broadcast language using names like Big Ben, Ward, Holmes, Davenport, Wilson, Miller, Farrior, Foote, Harrison, Polamalu and the rest of them. These players are, for the most part, already champions and they will be playing in a forum that is very unfriendly for the away-club in the playoffs.

You've made it interesting for me. I know some of these guys. They have played a terrible 2nd half of the season. Can they get back on track? Is Tomlin ready for prime time? To use your somewhat wise words, history may matter but it is always changing. Maybe tomorrow night is more about changing history than about repeating it -- the question is what history will be made. It is a great way to think about this matchup. Enjoy the weekend.

P.S. Coached the right way, Ben will be given a chance to create a tremendous rivalry with Brady and Manning. Coached the wrong way, you will watch a career waste away. Ben is every bit as good as any quarterback in the league. He has shown it under pressure.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL:

In general, you and I do not disagree about much now that I understand your underlying philosophies. I will respond to each of your numbers seriatim:

1. You would not disagree that history is as relevant as it is. Sometimes very relevant. Other times irrelevant. Would you bet against the history of Tom Brady this year? I would never do it, and I can't stand him. I will be rooting against him every week. But he's been doing this crap for 7 years and he reminds me too much of Montana to bet against him. He does what he does. On the other hand, you are right: History changes. Cases in point throughout NFL history are abound. The "catch" is a classic example of what you are saying. Remember? Dallas (oh, there's that word again) was the perennial champion and San Francisco never, ever beat Dallas. Enter Joe Montana and the "catch." Four Super Bowls later, nobody could deny that history had changed. So -- IMHO -- we are both correct.

2. I do not worship the quarterback position "blindly." I agree that if you surround a great quarterback with horse piles, you get horse piles. But somehow that rarely happens. I dunno why. But if you look throughout history, there are very, very few situations where the better quarterback has lost. There ARE situations where both teams' quarterbacks stunk (2000 Super Bowl) and defenses took over (recent Tampa Bay victory a few years back), but I'm excluding those. However, the better quarterback almost always wins when something is on the line: That is why we know about Van Brocklyn, Unitas, Starr, Namath (Unitas was injured in that 1969 game and didn't play until late in the fourth quarter -- and he almost pulled it out!; hint hint), Dawson, Greise, Bradshaw, Staubach (yes, Bradshaw was better than Staubach -- stronger arm -- but Staubach was better than Morton and so Dallas DID beat the Orange Crush in 77), Plunket, Montana, Simms, Aikman, Young and now Brady. Finishing your number 2, you haven't read the rest of my posts. I have already said I completely agree with you that the weakness and the unknown here is Tomlin. He is very suspect until he is not suspect. I did not like his game management all year, particularly on the road (where you have to be more aggressive). While few are as bad as Cowher was in big games (who loses 4 AFC championship games at home in 8 years?), Tomlin is worrying me. And the problem is not the pass blocking, it is Tomlin and the play calling. There are ways for every offensive line to perform. Pittsburgh should have been calling screens and draws and short slants all year. They have not done it, and I blame Tomlin. So, we basically disagree about the quarterback's importance, with room for agreement in rare situations. We both agree that Tomlin is suspect, but I do not agree with you about the offensive line. E.g., If Brady were Pittsburgh's quarterback, and were calling short passes all game, do you think the NE coaches could make a winner out of Pittsburgh's roster? We'll never know. But I think so.

3. I agree with everything you said on number 3. However, if Tomlin LET'S BEN GO and LET'S BEN THROW ON FIRST DOWN and LET'S THE B.S. STOP ON OFFENSE, Ben will light up the scoreboard. Mark these words. It is no different than 2 years ago except Ben is better now than he was then. In 2005, Cowher, for the first time in Cowher's life, let a quarterback GO. What happened? Deep passes completed on first downs at Indianapolis. 21-0 leads on the road. And suddenly, the running game was wide opened and Parker used his speed to go wild. Next, as to Aaron Smith, important loss. But not a game loser. There is too much talent on that side of the ball to worry about that. The truth will come out on the field, but remember that for every injury Pgh has, JAX has one too and at important positions: e.g., Peterson and Toefield.

4. On who won the playoff games in 2005, that would be . . . the Steelers. Yes, you are right. However, "but for Big Ben," it would have been . . . the Bengals or the Colts or the Broncos. Big Ben was the difference in those games and that was my point. He stunk up the Super Bowl as you've indicated. Now to your real point made earlier in your e mail: THE COACHING IS ALWAYS CRITICAL. IT IS THE INTANGIBLE. BIG BEN WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING 2 YEARS AGO WITHOUT COWHER HAVING LOST THOSE 4 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES, PLUS BLOWING THE DALLAS (woops, there's that word again) SUPER BOWL, and COWHER DECIDING "I'VE GOT A THOROUGHBRED HERE AND I AM LETTING HIM GO LIKE NOLL DID OF BRADSHAW IN 1974." SO THEY LET BIG BEN GO AND HE TOOK THAT TEAM AS FAR AS THEY COULD GO, I.E., ALL THE WAY.

In sum, you raise some good points and I now understand where you are coming from. I still maintain, however, that if Tomlin "let's Ben go" and if a healthy Troy plays in the game, that you will be hearing a lot of broadcast language using names like Big Ben, Ward, Holmes, Davenport, Wilson, Miller, Farrior, Foote, Harrison, Polamalu and the rest of them. These players are, for the most part, already champions and they will be playing in a forum that is very unfriendly for the away-club in the playoffs.

You've made it interesting for me. I know some of these guys. They have played a terrible 2nd half of the season. Can they get back on track? Is Tomlin ready for prime time? To use your somewhat wise words, history may matter but it is always changing. Maybe tomorrow night is more about changing history than about repeating it -- the question is what history will be made. It is a great way to think about this matchup. Enjoy the weekend.

P.S. Coached the right way, Ben will be given a chance to create a tremendous rivalry with Brady and Manning. Coached the wrong way, you will watch a career waste away. Ben is every bit as good as any quarterback in the league. He has shown it under pressure.

Man, do you have to right a book in every comment? Ugh...

1, I wouldn't bet against the history of the PATRIOTS. As great as Brady has been, he has a great offensive line, phenomenal targets, and a pretty good defense behind him.

And you just contradicted your previous statement. With the 49ers, and that the 49ers never beat Dallas. It happened. You were saying how no one ever beat Pittsburgh twice in a month in Pittsburgh. It can very well happen, because things change.

2, I could go just this season of examples where the "Better QB" lost. (Every Titans game for one). Joe Namath, who you mentioned, wasn't really that good. He threw many more INTs than TD's, and really is one of the most over-rated in the NFL history. And how is pass blocking not the issue? They give up a ton of sacks, and every QB will make mistakes when he's running for his life because his blocking is bad. You talk about Brady, and he'd make them better than Ben just for the reason that Brady is better, but he wouldn't turn them into a 15-1 team. Brady and Manning have had great offensive lines the last few reasons, and both would not be nearly as good if given the Steelers line or the Lions line etc.

3, Ben will light up the scoreboard? Obviously you haven't seen the statistic about the Steelers when they have a ton of pass attempts. They lose. That team needs a great running game, and with Parker and linemen hurt, they likely won't have that. Against a great D like Jacksonville, they'll bring pressure, and Ben will be busy eating that mud they call grass at Heinz Field. And while Peterson's injury is important, Toefield??? Really? OOOh, they don't have the 4th string running back, that's deadly.

4, Looks like you use your Stephen A. voice here. Ben played well, but the defense played great in those games. The running game played great, Ward played great as well. Ben didn't "Take" the team to the playoffs. The TEAM as a whole played great, and THAT is why they won the Super Bowl.

They have a very good defense, that's obviously important. But so does Jacksonville. As good as Ben is, it's pretty hard for an offense to be any good when they have a lackluster line. Davenport isn't Willie Parker for sure, and I doubt he even averages 4 a run.

We can agree on this, it should be a great game, and these games can't come soon enough. As far as Roethlisberger, he can become a very good QB, as indicated by this year. But reaching Brady and Manning, two guys who will without a doubt be Hall of Famers, that's a pretty hard task.

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Buttons wrote:

Question dobieco: Did you actually indicate in that paragraph that you feel Phil Simms was better than John Elway?

Buttons: At that point in his career, absolutely. Simms still has unbroken records in the playoffs and Super Bowl, and Elway stunk up the Super Bowl until his last two years. Simms had a much stronger arm than Elway, and it showed in big games. Elway showed extreme heart on the two Super Bowl victories, but that was only AFTER he was receiving snaps alongside Davis. But Elway had a severe problem earlier in his career -- and we all watched it. His victories in the last two Super Bowls make him a legend and an enigma. A legend because of the heart he showed. An enigma because he is the only quarterback in NFL history to start in 5 super bowls and lose his first 3. You are falling into the trap identified by Sports Illustrated in underrating Phil Simms. Easy trap to do, but the statistics do not help you. Simms was the two time Super Bowl winner, Super Bowl MVP, Pro Bowl MVP, with numerous records and performances in big games. Simms set team records for most passes completed and attempted in one game (40 and 62, respectively), season (286, 533) and career (2,576, 4,647), most career touchdown passes (199) and most 300-yard games in a career (21) Sports Illustrated hailed him as the "Most Underrated Quarterback in NFL History" in their August 27, 2001 issue entitled, "The Most Overrated and Underrated."

The only thing I would consider stipulating to is that -- when Simms played Elway -- we had equal quarterbacks on the field. Anything else would be re-writing history.

And, by the way, this has happened quite a bit throughout NFL history. This year, who is better between Manning and Brady? Brady? He broke all the records. We'll see, won't we. Who was better between Bradshaw and Staubach? I guess Bradshaw since he won both games. But Staubach posted better career numbers. What gives? How about Brady against Warner? Warner broke 7 records that year. Warner's career numbers are virtually unparalleled. But Brady turns out to be better, even if he retires this year. Yes, when Elway played the guy with the shotgun arm -- the most underrated quarterback in NFL history -- Elway was overmatched. And the score and the records set by Simms showed it.

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dallas78 wrote:

When I said " people like you" I meant obnoxious, which you have pretty much shown by this post. I don't even know where to begin, nothing of what you said could even be considered a complete rational thought. BTW, I am well aware of a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist as being two different professions, but I guess that was way over your head also.

Dallas, lighten up. This is entertainment.

Can you at least tell me what happened in 1960?

Every question in my post has an answer, but the failure of a Pittsburgher to robustly discuss 1960 is sac-religious.

Cheers.

549 days ago

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Hey! I have not butted into this conversation yet. I should. After all I am the Steelers Fans commissioner and the youngest Steeler fan on here.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

Dallas, lighten up. This is entertainment.

Can you at least tell me what happened in 1960?

Every question in my post has an answer, but the failure of a Pittsburgher to robustly discuss 1960 is sac-religious.

Cheers.

Bill Mazeroski hit the game winning homerun to beat the Yankees in game 7. It was the only time a World series has ever been decided by a walk off homerun before Joe Carter did it in '93. Home plate is now on the campus of the University of Pittsburgh, which is in Oakland. I don't know why I even felt the need to answer that but there you go.

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MrNFL wrote:

Man, do you have to right a book in every comment? Ugh...

1, I wouldn't bet against the history of the PATRIOTS. As great as Brady has been, he has a great offensive line, phenomenal targets, and a pretty good defense behind him.

And you just contradicted your previous statement. With the 49ers, and that the 49ers never beat Dallas. It happened. You were saying how no one ever beat Pittsburgh twice in a month in Pittsburgh. It can very well happen, because things change.

2, I could go just this season of examples where the "Better QB" lost. (Every Titans game for one). Joe Namath, who you mentioned, wasn't really that good. He threw many more INTs than TD's, and really is one of the most over-rated in the NFL history. And how is pass blocking not the issue? They give up a ton of sacks, and every QB will make mistakes when he's running for his life because his blocking is bad. You talk about Brady, and he'd make them better than Ben just for the reason that Brady is better, but he wouldn't turn them into a 15-1 team. Brady and Manning have had great offensive lines the last few reasons, and both would not be nearly as good if given the Steelers line or the Lions line etc.

3, Ben will light up the scoreboard? Obviously you haven't seen the statistic about the Steelers when they have a ton of pass attempts. They lose. That team needs a great running game, and with Parker and linemen hurt, they likely won't have that. Against a great D like Jacksonville, they'll bring pressure, and Ben will be busy eating that mud they call grass at Heinz Field. And while Peterson's injury is important, Toefield??? Really? OOOh, they don't have the 4th string running back, that's deadly.

4, Looks like you use your Stephen A. voice here. Ben played well, but the defense played great in those games. The running game played great, Ward played great as well. Ben didn't "Take" the team to the playoffs. The TEAM as a whole played great, and THAT is why they won the Super Bowl.

They have a very good defense, that's obviously important. But so does Jacksonville. As good as Ben is, it's pretty hard for an offense to be any good when they have a lackluster line. Davenport isn't Willie Parker for sure, and I doubt he even averages 4 a run.

We can agree on this, it should be a great game, and these games can't come soon enough. As far as Roethlisberger, he can become a very good QB, as indicated by this year. But reaching Brady and Manning, two guys who will without a doubt be Hall of Famers, that's a pretty hard task.

Mr. NFL:

Maybe we don't agree on as much as I thought. Or maybe we do. Correcting the record, the San Francisco example was mine (the "catch"). It is an example of why you always bet on the better quarterback. (Remember Dallas' Danny White in the "catch" game?) I do not agree that Namath was overrated. Look at his career statistics. However, my point was that Unitas was definitely superior to Namath. But Unitas was injured in SB III. Hence the result. Lastly, Davenport has averaged 5.1 yards per carry this year. But, as the Pittsburgh newspapers point out, it is not the running back but the blocking schemes used on their runs that matter for Pgh.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_539570.html

Bottom line: Good debate. If Tomlin is up to the task, and Troy is healthy, the Steelers will win going away. If Troy is healthy and Pittsburgh loses a close one, I blame Tomlin. If Troy is healthy and Pittsburgh gets blown out, I blame Tomlin and then admit that I completely misjudged and mis-analyzed how bad Tomlin really is. Because my instinct is that Tomlin is ultimately a very good coach, I predict a definitive Steeler victory.

Enjoy.

549 days ago

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dallas78 wrote:

Bill Mazeroski hit the game winning homerun to beat the Yankees in game 7. It was the only time a World series has ever been decided by a walk off homerun before Joe Carter did it in '93. Home plate is now on the campus of the University of Pittsburgh, which is in Oakland. I don't know why I even felt the need to answer that but there you go.

Thank you. Good pick up. A couple of important points. First, 1960 was the only world series won by a home run in the bottom of the ninth inning of game seven. Very unique for our city. Home plate is encased in glass on the floor of the building closest to the remaining piece of ivy-covered wall remaining from Forbes field. You are right -- it is on the campus of the University of Pittsburgh in the building that is attached to the law school but is closest to the last piece of standing wall from Forbes Field. The city has an ordinance that the wall -- merely six feet wide but with the actual ivy from the Forbes Field days -- will never be removed. It is cared for out of the budget for the city, with the ivy and grass attended to, under an agreement between Pitt and the City circa 1970. Lastly, interestingly, the first time the phrase "walk off home run" was ever used in print in the United States was on April 21, 1988 in the San Francisco Chronicle. Before then, it was just called a "winning home run in the bottom of the ninth." Again, Mazeroski's was the only such "walk off home run" to end a world series in a game 7. Anyway, enjoy the football game tomorrow night. Let's show 'em what it means to be a visiting favorite coming into Heinz Field!

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(Edited 01/04/08 4:45PM by MrNFL)
dobieco wrote:

Mr. NFL:

Maybe we don't agree on as much as I thought. Or maybe we do. Correcting the record, the San Francisco example was mine (the "catch"). It is an example of why you always bet on the better quarterback. (Remember Dallas' Danny White in the "catch" game?) I do not agree that Namath was overrated. Look at his career statistics. However, my point was that Unitas was definitely superior to Namath. But Unitas was injured in SB III. Hence the result. Lastly, Davenport has averaged 5.1 yards per carry this year. But, as the Pittsburgh newspapers point out, it is not the running back but the blocking schemes used on their runs that matter for Pgh.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_539570.html

Bottom line: Good debate. If Tomlin is up to the task, and Troy is healthy, the Steelers will win going away. If Troy is healthy and Pittsburgh loses a close one, I blame Tomlin. If Troy is healthy and Pittsburgh gets blown out, I blame Tomlin and then admit that I completely misjudged and mis-analyzed how bad Tomlin really is. Because my instinct is that Tomlin is ultimately a very good coach, I predict a definitive Steeler victory.

Enjoy.

I have looked at Namath's career stats.

G	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%

140

130

1886

3762

50.1

27663

173

4.6

220

5.8

91

7.4

5.2

14.7

197.6

65.5

109

1052

6.9

4.8

2.8

47 more INTs than TD's, barely a 50% completion percentage. That's not very good.

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Buttons wrote:

I apologize for the length of the post not on topic. The Jags "D" will suffocate Ben this weekend. Look for a Jacksonville defensive TD to make the margin of victory double digits. Steelers are overrated and have been all season. The last 4 weeks and this weekend have/will show(n) that.

Booo, and I even gave you a smart thumbs up for that Elway remark, LOL

549 days ago

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MrNFL wrote:

I have looked at Namath's career stats.

G	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%

140

130

1886

3762

50.1

27663

173

4.6

220

5.8

91

7.4

5.2

14.7

197.6

65.5

109

1052

6.9

4.8

2.8

47 more INTs than TD's, barely a 50% completion percentage. That's not very good.

In 1999, Joe Namath was ranked number 96 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players of all time.

Sorry. I'll trust The Sporting News over Mr. NFL.

Namath was quite a player, who won championships with below-average teams. He also might have had the strongest arm in NFL history, as discussed by the Sporting News. Watching Namath throw a football on videotape is one of the amazing sights -- it points up that talent has always been talent and the old teams could easily compete in any environment. (This is a different debate [whether older teams could compete today] which we can do later; but the answer is not found in the bigger size of today's linemen.)

I like debating with you. I hate to be told I'm right. Keep pushing!

By the way, who the hell is "Stephen A?"

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

In 1999, Joe Namath was ranked number 96 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players of all time.

Sorry. I'll trust The Sporting News over Mr. NFL.

Namath was quite a player, who won championships with below-average teams. He also might have had the strongest arm in NFL history, as discussed by the Sporting News. Watching Namath throw a football on videotape is one of the amazing sights -- it points up that talent has always been talent and the old teams could easily compete in any environment. (This is a different debate [whether older teams could compete today] which we can do later; but the answer is not found in the bigger size of today's linemen.)

I like debating with you. I hate to be told I'm right. Keep pushing!

By the way, who the hell is "Stephen A?"

Won Championships? For one, he was on ONE Super Bowl winning team, so you're wrong there. Namath was very charismatic, a crowd pleaser, and great for the league. But he was over-rated as a player. THAT many INT's, and that low of a completion percentage.

And Stephen A. Smith is the loudest angriest man on the planet. He's an NBA analyst on ESPN, AND HE LIKES YELLING! HE HAS TWO VOICES, LOUD, AND LOUDER! EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS IMPORTANT!

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Buttons wrote:

"At that point in his career, absolutely. Simms still has unbroken records in the playoffs and Super Bowl, and Elway stunk up the Super Bowl until his last two years."

Simms had 4 years in the league on Elway at that point and they were still statistically the same as seen here : Simms Elway

As far as playoffs the only record I know that Simms has is the completion % and QB rating in the Superbowl, which was probably the best game he ever played. Aside from that the stats favor Elway, up to that game and certainly afterward as seen here: Simms Playoffs Elway Playoffs Also the fact that Elway led his team to the playoffs 10 of his 16 years, and Simms only 6 out of 14, speaks to Elway's consistency.

"Simms had a much stronger arm than Elway, and it showed in big games."

This might be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard on this site. Elway's arm was notorious. I once saw him scramble to the sideline and throw a ball 60 yards downfield, across his body to the other sideline. Elway had arguably the strongest arm in the history of the NFL.

"Simms was the two time Super Bowl winner"

In 1990 Simms was hurt in week 13 and Jeff Hostetler led the Giants to that Superbowl title. Nobody denies Simms' was instrumental in getting the Giants there, but most Giant fans will tell you that if Hos' was not the QB for that run the Giants don't win that Superbowl. Probably don't make it out of San Fran.

I don't want this to be too long because this thread is not about Simms and Elway, but: Elway: 9-time pro-bowler, 5 time All-Pro, 51,475 passing yds, 300 td's, and 3,407 career rushing yds and 33 td's. Simms: 2 Time pro-bowler, 1 time All-Pro, 33,462 passing yds, 199 td's and 1252 rushing yds., and 6 td's.

Elway was also notorious for comeback drives, ask Cleveland fans. Simms being MVP of the Pro Bowl is absolutely meaningless, and you know that. Elway was elected to the HOF first ballot. The only way Simms could get in is as a broadcaster.

Simms might have been underrated, but even on his best day he's not John Elway.

"Yes, when Elway played the guy with the shotgun arm -- the most underrated quarterback in NFL history -- Elway was overmatched. And the score and the records set by Simms showed it."

I recind my earlier comment...this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on this site.

It may be ridiculous to you, but Simms kicked Elway's butt in the Super Bowl. Fact.

I cannot argue with somebody who tells me that Elway was better than Simms in the 1980s when Elway quarterbacked a team that lost 3 super bowls and got outplayed by Simms in one of them.

If Terry Bradshaw had not beaten Fran Tarkenton and Roger the Dodger, you would never have heard of Mean Joe, Franco or anybody else. Who was the running back next to Fran Tarkenton in Super Bowl IX?

Go ahead and think Elway was better than Simms on the day that Simms beat him. Just watch your wallet if you bet football, because you will have no money left with your analyses.

In any event, in the Elway-Simms matchup, I'll pick Simms. You? (Hint: The game has already been played.)

549 days ago

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MrNFL wrote:

Won Championships? For one, he was on ONE Super Bowl winning team, so you're wrong there. Namath was very charismatic, a crowd pleaser, and great for the league. But he was over-rated as a player. THAT many INT's, and that low of a completion percentage.

And Stephen A. Smith is the loudest angriest man on the planet. He's an NBA analyst on ESPN, AND HE LIKES YELLING! HE HAS TWO VOICES, LOUD, AND LOUDER! EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS IMPORTANT!

You forgot about AFL championships. I don't think the Sporting News took charisma into account when they did their voting. I'll watch ESPN as this guy sounds wild. I do not follow the NBA that much, but angry man disease is always fun. Thanks.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

You forgot about AFL championships. I don't think the Sporting News took charisma into account when they did their voting. I'll watch ESPN as this guy sounds wild. I do not follow the NBA that much, but angry man disease is always fun. Thanks.

Jets never won an AFL Championship. They had one title, it was Super Bowl 3.

549 days ago

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You don't remember the 1968 AFL Championship game where Don Maynard caught 6 passes for 118 yards and 2 touchdowns (one an absolute rocket from Namath)? The Colts concentrated on him so much that they forgot to win the game.

549 days ago

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dobieco wrote:

You don't remember the 1968 AFL Championship game where Don Maynard caught 6 passes for 118 yards and 2 touchdowns (one an absolute rocket from Namath)? The Colts concentrated on him so much that they forgot to win the game.

1968 was Super Bowl III, the one title they won.

549 days ago

Pat

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Dobieco - Every time you refer to a game as "QB X vs QB Y" (regardless of whether it's Bradshaw and Staubach, Brady and Manning, or Simms and Elway), you sound incredibly ignorant. The games are not one QB vs the other. It's one TEAM against the other. Stop being foolish, it really destroys your credibility. If every game was truly won by the best QB, then Peyton Manning would have more than one Super Bowl ring right now, and the Steelers wouldn't have won at all 2 years ago, because Big Ben was straight up awful.

549 days ago

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Pat wrote:

Dobieco - Every time you refer to a game as "QB X vs QB Y" (regardless of whether it's Bradshaw and Staubach, Brady and Manning, or Simms and Elway), you sound incredibly ignorant. The games are not one QB vs the other. It's one TEAM against the other. Stop being foolish, it really destroys your credibility. If every game was truly won by the best QB, then Peyton Manning would have more than one Super Bowl ring right now, and the Steelers wouldn't have won at all 2 years ago, because Big Ben was straight up awful.

Pat, you are wrong -- and this time you cannot dispute it because there is third-party proof.

NFL.com, and smart sports people, always talk of matchups in terms of opposing quarterbacks. In your words, "QB X v. QB Y." For example, here's NFL.com's excerpt from Week 4:

"Posted: 09/26/2007

Brady-Palmer air show is among key matchups in Week 4

By Gil Brandt | NFL.com

With competitive balance being what it is these days in the NFL, these individual matchups we look at each week become more and more important in determining the outcome of games.

Here are some key matchups to follow when you're watching the Week 4 action in the NFL:

Patriots QB Tom Brady vs. Bengals QB Carson Palmer

It's a Monday night matchup of the two premier passers in the NFL so far this season. Brady leads the NFL in touchdown passes, Palmer is second. Palmer leads the AFC in yards, Brady is second.

Both players thrive under the lights. In six Monday night road games, Brady has thrown for a remarkable 1,527 yards and 13 TDs. In two Monday night home games, Palmer has 390 yards and three TDs.

Brady and Palmer both have star receivers to work with -- Chad Johnson leads the NFL in receiving yards and T.J. Houshmandzadeh leads in receptions; Randy Moss leads in TD catches and the Patriots as a team lead the NFL in total offense. Don't be surprised to see Palmer win the statistical battle here, because New England would be wise to run the ball often on Cincinnati.

One other piece of data that bodes well for Brady: His career record on non-grass fields is 24-1."

WOW PAT. "QB X vs. QB Y" JUST LIKE YOU COMPLAINED ABOUT, IN WRITING, DESCRIBED TO YOUR DISLIKING ON NFL.COM. Gil Brandt, one of the best sportswriters in the country. WOW -- YOU REALLY BLEW A FLAT TIRE ON THIS ONE HEY PAT?

I AM SORRY YOU ARE WRONG, I IMAGINE IT DOES NOT FEEL GOOD TO BE WRONG, BUT I THINK I'LL TAKE GIL BRANDT OVER AN ANONOMOUS PATRIOTS' FAN. YOU ARE WRONG. IN BASEBALL, THE BETTING LINE ACTUALLY SAYS PITCHER X V. PITCHER Y. IN FOOTBALL, IT IS THE SAME. WHICH QUARTERBACK STEPS UP IN THAT GAME.

I'LL BE SURE TO TELL GIL BRANDT THAT HIS WAY OF ANALYZING FOOTBALL GAMES BY REFERRING TO "QB X V. QB Y" AS A KEY MATCHUP IS "INCREDIBLY IGNORANT," "FOOLISH," AND "DESTROYS [HIS CREDIBILITY]." I AM SURE HE'LL BE CALLING YOU TO ASK FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO WRITE HIS NEXT COLUMN.

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE WRONG? DOES IT MAKE YOU WANT TO HAVE A BEER? IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD ENJOY THE INCREDIBLE PHENOMENON HAPPENING IN N.E. NOWADAYS FOR ALL ITS WORTH -- AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT.

IN FOOTBALL, THE KEY MATCHUP IS ALWAYS WHO TOUCHES THE BALL MOST -- THE QUARTERBACK.

I LIKE YOUR ADJECTIVES "IGNORANT," "FOOLISH" AND NO "CREDIBILITY" AS THEY APPLY TO YOU IN WAYS YOU CANNOT NOW DISPUTE -- BUT I LIKE THE WORD IMBECILE FOR YOU EVEN BETTER AND SINCE WE'RE NAME CALLING LET'S USE THAT NAME. AND BY THE WAY, WHEN THE PATRIOTS PLAY THE COLTS (I WISH IT WOULD BE PGH. BUT THE INJURIES HAVE GUTTED THAT CHANCE) YOU WILL SEE AT LEAST A DOZEN ARTICLES DESCRIBING THE KEY MATCHUP AS BEING MANNING V. BRADY. AND GUESS WHAT? IT WILL BE THE KEY MATCHUP. WHOEVER PUTS UP MORE POINTS IS GOING TO WIN THAT GAME AND PUTTING UP POINTS IS DEPENDENT UPON TAKING THE SNAP FROM CENTER AND DOING SOMETHING WITH IT NO MATTER WHAT DEFENSE IS THROWN AT YOU AND NO MATTER WHAT HURDLES THE QUARTERBACK FACES.

WOW. WHAT AN IDIOT. IT IS AS IF YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL AND JUST APPEARED HERE TO MAKE A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF.

548 days ago

biglinebacker

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MrNFL wrote:

1968 was Super Bowl III, the one title they won.

1968 was before the merger. the AFL championship was a championship, just like before the Super Bowl. it was one of the great championship games ever played. it is a primary reason Namath is ranked in the top 100 football players ever. to quote dick schapp: "after watching namath single-handedly win the championship against Oakland, the Colts should have not only prepared better for the Super Bowl, but should have prayed."

548 days ago

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Buttons wrote:

"I cannot argue with somebody who tells me that Elway was better than Simms in the 1980s when Elway quarterbacked a team that lost 3 super bowls and got outplayed by Simms in one of them."

And yet you did it anyway.

The Broncos lost three Superbowls because they played 3 superior teams. Just so you know the Giants also beat the 49ers in the playoffs that year 49-3. That team had both Montana and Rice. Do you really think that Simms is better than Montana, and Bobby Johnson, Stacey Robinson or Phil Mcconckey are better receiver than Rice?

The 86' Giants, 87' Redskins, and 89' 49ers are three of the greatest teams of that decade, if not ever in the NFL. The Broncos as a team lost those games... the true testament is a QB that even took his team to 5 SuperBowls. Dan Marino went to 1. Warren Moon-0. Playing your way into the biggest game of the football season is not something easily achieved, so just to get there, even if you lose is quite an accomplishment. By the way did you even read the stats I posted?

I did say that Simms' Superbowl performance was his best ever. No one would have beaten Simms or the Giants that day. They came into the game knowing they would win. That's what happens when you have Lawrence Taylor, Carl banks, Leonard Marshall, Harry Carson, a young Pepper Johnson, etc, and so on, on defense. That was the strength of that team. Defense and a power running game behind Joe Morris.

And by your logic Doug Williams was a better QB in the 80's (since we are now breaking down portions of careers to support our arguments) than John Elway. And so was Jim Mcmahon who won a Superbowl that decade as well. Honestly, I'll take Elway, you take Simms, and I'll be taking your seats in the owners box at Heinz field.

Buttons, funny ending. Doug Williams was never ranked anywhere, never broke any career team records, and had a short career. So nobody would argue he was better than Elway during a 7 year span. By the way, the owner's box was the DETROIT owners box at the 95 Super Bowl -- do you still want it for the next game there? I have never been in the STEELERS owners box. And, by the way, the GIANTS were not a better team than DENVER in the year they beat DENVER. Look at common opponents that year and look at the result of the game in terms of quarter by quarter. But I still have to laugh as you just bypassed the money and moved into the owner's box. Good stuff.

Now I am nervous about today's game, so I will take this opportunity to wish myself good luck in watching this questionable team PERHAPS make a run.

Enjoy.

548 days ago