Asked by: RenegadeLG (+)
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Colorado Rockies
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Philadelphia 76ers
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Is Chase Utley's campaign tainted?
Chase Utley may have never used HGH or other performance enhancing substances.  It's impossible to prove he hasn't, but that's not the reason I made this poll.  I made the poll because playing at CBP is the equivalent of being juiced regardless.  It's tiny.  Especially for a LH batter - that Right Field fence (369 Right Center, 330 Foul Pole) turns pop ups into home runs.

I have a particular bone to pick as numbers from guys like Larry Walker, Todd Helton and Matt Holliday (who ridiculously lost the MVP to Rollins last year) have been negated over the years because they play at elevation - even though an extra effort as been made to humidify and kill the balls, and the fact that the park is among the biggest in the game.

Anyway, take a look at Utley's splits and tell me what you think.  He's only getting a free pass because it's a big market.

@ HOME: .281, 17 HRs (Pace: 26), 41 RBIs (Pace: 64), .934 (.341 + .593) OPS

ROAD: .295, 8 HRS (Pace: 13), 30 RBIs (Pace: 47), .919 (.394 + .525) OPS

Granted, he's a solid hitter regardless, and the RBI deficit is a product of the fact his other fraud teammates can't get on base on the road, but it's pretty staggering.  A pace of 67% of his HRs and 58% of his RBIs to be at home.

And unless his pedestrian overall Batting Average (.288, hilarious) spikes in a hurry, the "Best Ever Season by a 2B" talk needs to die.

Also take note of the fact he has 18 Doubles on the Road as opposed to 9 at home.  Why?  Because Doubles in most other parks BECOME dingers in Philly.  This is an addressable point as his MVP above-average season hopes hinge on an astronomical HR total.  Hard to achieve when his 'elite' power is only fabricated in half the games.  He either needs to pick up his play on the road (unlikely) or avoid ever slumping at home (also improbable) or this sham of a season will implode in a hurry.

I'll update the numbers periodically as I'm confident the gap won't ever tighten.
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#1 | 74 days ago

+15 thumbs upYou cant hold the player himself accountable for the fact that he simply plays in a hitters ballpark.

good grief son.

Maybe he will come to his senses and singlehandedly alter the dimensions of the ballpark so jerkoffs like you can be satisfied.

Its all part of the game. Some parks benefit the pitcher. Some don't. 

You could put Chase Utley on Venus and he will still mash.
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#1 | 74 days ago

+15 thumbs upYou cant hold the player himself accountable for the fact that he simply plays in a hitters ballpark.

good grief son.

Maybe he will come to his senses and singlehandedly alter the dimensions of the ballpark so jerkoffs like you can be satisfied.

Its all part of the game. Some parks benefit the pitcher. Some don't. 

You could put Chase Utley on Venus and he will still mash.
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#4 | 74 days ago

+5 thumbs upPopups are hr's in Boston...nobody takes anything away from Manny...but I see your point...
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#6 | 74 days ago

RenegadeLG wrote:
Manny's never won an MVP.  But it's another huge market and storied franchise.  Although the Monster is still a legit Home Run, Ortiz is the one more un-legitimized by playing at Fenway.

Still, my main point stands.  Even though his numbers were a LOT better, Holliday was robbed of the MVP, and most people's reasoning was "Because he plays at Coors" yet they gave it to a guy who plays at the most juiced park in the game in Rollins.  At least Rollins is consistent on the road too, though.  Tulo was robbed of ROY in favor of Braun for the same reasons, although at least those numbers warranted arguing.  If only they had considered defense.
+3 thumbs up

Your question is definitely valid...lol make it a featured blog...just put "OH WAIT" after it

 

 

Ortiz...that pig has been hittin them on the small porch for years...in Minnesota he hit em off the baggy...he puts up good numbers in hitters parks.  BTW Shin Soo Choo had  aHR in other park today but since hes in Detroit it was a 416 ft. double...where you play matters...definitely agree

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#7 | 74 days ago

(Edited by bookiebuster)
RenegadeLG wrote:
Right, as exhibited by his numbers on the road.  Apparently every other ball park in the game is bigger than Venus.
+4 thumbs up

Hes hitting .301 with 5 jacks as a second baseman 60 games or so into the season on the road, retard.

 

Hardly evidence that indicates the only reason he puts up monster numbers every year are because he plays in the ballpark.

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#8 | 74 days ago

+3 thumbs upI don't think you can have it both ways(Utley/Rockies players).  You can't say his season is tainted because of the ballpark he plays in and then turn around and say that Rockies players get robbed because of Coors.  You are using the same reason to downgrade Utleys season as others have done to downgrade Holliday or Heltons great seasons. 

I don't think it's tainted.  I agree with you on the Rockies players being dismissed because of Coors and that the "best season ever for a 2B" talk needs to stop.
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#9 | 74 days ago

+2 thumbs upumm I let his talent in the clutch do the talking on this on.
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#10 | 74 days ago

+2 thumbs upFor your information, the Phillies have the best ROAD record in the National League (so it's not all CBP), and saying that .317 is a "pedestrian" batting average is ludicrous.  This is possibly the worst poll I've ever seen.  It's fine if you don't like Chase Utley, but try to come up with some more legitimate points if you think he's overrated.
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#11 | 74 days ago

EdSpeshel wrote:
I don't think you can have it both ways(Utley/Rockies players).  You can't say his season is tainted because of the ballpark he plays in and then turn around and say that Rockies players get robbed because of Coors.  You are using the same reason to downgrade Utleys season as others have done to downgrade Holliday or Heltons great seasons. 

I don't think it's tainted.  I agree with you on the Rockies players being dismissed because of Coors and that the "best season ever for a 2B" talk needs to stop.
I don't know how you gleaned this at all, but I was taking the exact opposite approach.  I've long accepted the Rockies' being canceled out by Coors (at least with Walker and Todd's early 00's .400 attempts), I'm just asking why the same hard time isn't being given to Utley.
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#12 | 74 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
qtowndogg wrote:
For your information, the Phillies have the best ROAD record in the National League (so it's not all CBP), and saying that .317 is a "pedestrian" batting average is ludicrous.  This is possibly the worst poll I've ever seen.  It's fine if you don't like Chase Utley, but try to come up with some more legitimate points if you think he's overrated.
+2 thumbs upUh, it is pedestrian.  For a supposed token MVP this early in the season, having the 15th best average in baseball is pretty ridiculous.  And I don't know what points you're looking for if you're not going to acknowledge the fact his stats are almost double at home what they are anywhere else.

Where did I say he was overrated?  WHERE?  You're an angry Phils fan, apparently upset at one person calling your boy out.  ESPN is on their knees for him, most of the sports world is, you should be confident in that and not worry about one person's difference in opinion.  He's not overrated, he's one of the best 2Bs in the game, but already crowning him the MVP is f'ing STUPID.

I'm just glad the Rockies suck this year, so I don't have to get verklmept over another rob job.  However, Astros and Marlins fans will have a case at the end of the year when Berkman (.374, yeah, that's MVPish) and Uggla have better numbers.  Both get it done on the road, too.

Speaking of Uggla, the gap between he and Utley is minimal.  Pretty ludicrous to be talking about Utley being the best 2B ever when he might not even be the best in his divison currently.  Uggla bats .345 on the road.  That's a nice change of pace.

Also, I'm glad to hear the Phils are winning in spite of Utley on the road, but I fail to see how that helps the case.
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#13 | 74 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
bookiebuster wrote:

Hes hitting .301 with 5 jacks as a second baseman 60 games or so into the season on the road, retard.

 

Hardly evidence that indicates the only reason he puts up monster numbers every year are because he plays in the ballpark.

+1 thumbs upUggla's hitting .345 with 8 HRs on the Road against the same teams.  Oops.
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#14 | 74 days ago

derms33 wrote:
Popups are hr's in Boston...nobody takes anything away from Manny...but I see your point...
+1 thumbs up Line drives off green monster would be home runs in other ballparks so thats bullshi*t
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#15 | 74 days ago

+1 thumbs upi mis-read the question. its not affected because of this
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#16 | 74 days ago

RenegadeLG wrote:
Uh, it is pedestrian.  For a supposed token MVP this early in the season, having the 15th best average in baseball is pretty ridiculous.  And I don't know what points you're looking for if you're not going to acknowledge the fact his stats are almost double at home what they are anywhere else.

Where did I say he was overrated?  WHERE?  You're an angry Phils fan, apparently upset at one person calling your boy out.  ESPN is on their knees for him, most of the sports world is, you should be confident in that and not worry about one person's difference in opinion.  He's not overrated, he's one of the best 2Bs in the game, but already crowning him the MVP is f'ing STUPID.

I'm just glad the Rockies suck this year, so I don't have to get verklmept over another rob job.  However, Astros and Marlins fans will have a case at the end of the year when Berkman (.374, yeah, that's MVPish) and Uggla have better numbers.  Both get it done on the road, too.

Speaking of Uggla, the gap between he and Utley is minimal.  Pretty ludicrous to be talking about Utley being the best 2B ever when he might not even be the best in his divison currently.  Uggla bats .345 on the road.  That's a nice change of pace.

Also, I'm glad to hear the Phils are winning in spite of Utley on the road, but I fail to see how that helps the case.
+4 thumbs up

Those are all valid points, and I completely respect anyone's opinion on Utley.  However, my main beef with you is that Utley stats are better because of his home ballpark.  The ballpark has nothing to do with how well he is playing.  Maybe if you were talking about Pat Burrell I would understand, because Pat hits all of his bombs into the short porch in left.  But Chase, when he gets his home runs, are mostly to center or right (which are both relatively deep in the park).  Don't blame the player if you think he has an easy field, it's not his fault.  Blame the architect of the field if you have a problem with it.  Even if Utley is given a favorable hitting park (which by the way, I still think the whole "hitter's park" concept is a little overrated), he still has earned his stats (21 HRs, 18 doubles [11 doubles on the road], 56 RBI are not too shabby when you've only played 65 games). 

 

And by the way, I think Berkman and Uggla are also excellent candidates for the MVP, and they definitely would be well-deserving if they would receive the award.  I also won't say Utley's the best 2B ever, because he is still young, and only played a relatively short career thus far.  He definitely has the tools to earn that title in the future though.

 

And what do you mean "in spite of Utley"?  .316 may not be as high as 14 others, but it is still a great average (and he puts the ball in play almost every at bat).  And without Utley, the Phillies record (home or away) would not nearly be as good as it is now.  And comparing his averages for barely over 2 seasons, and saying he's declining?  How small of a sampling is that?  Give him another season or two, and if they're still declining, then I'll worry.

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#17 | 74 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
I dunno who provided the picture for the feature on the front page, but it's a good one.  Nice view of the 330 foot foul pole that I could throw a rock over.

Utley was 1-4 today, dipping his road average back under .300, but like qtowndogg brought up, they find a way to win games on the road regardless.
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#18 | 73 days ago

bookiebuster wrote:

Hes hitting .301 with 5 jacks as a second baseman 60 games or so into the season on the road, retard.

 

Hardly evidence that indicates the only reason he puts up monster numbers every year are because he plays in the ballpark.

That's a pace of 13 HRs and 52 RBIs.  Hardly terrible for 81 games, but nowhere near elite either.
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#19 | 73 days ago

RenegadeLG wrote:
Uggla's hitting .345 with 8 HRs on the Road against the same teams.  Oops.
+1 thumbs upAnd his team in 3.5 Games behind Utleys.

And stop crying over Rollins being better than Holliday last season.

You're a Denver fan, your hatred for Phila is kind of ridiculous.
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#20 | 73 days ago

"Especially for a LH batter - that Right Field porch turns pop ups into home runs."

 

The short porch is in left field, so that wouldn't be a factor for a lefty hitter (unless they went opposite field on a regular basis).

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#21 | 73 days ago

qtowndogg wrote:

"Especially for a LH batter - that Right Field porch turns pop ups into home runs."

 

The short porch is in left field, so that wouldn't be a factor for a lefty hitter (unless they went opposite field on a regular basis).

+2 thumbs up

You said yourself that he hits most of his homeruns to  right and right-center.  Most hitters will hit the majority of their homeruns to the power alley.  The right center field fence in CBP is 369', which is a joke for a major league ballpark to say the least.  Oh and the 'short porch' you speak of:  LF line 329'  RF line 330'.  And the deepest part of the ballpark is "the angle" which is 409' feet away, and just left of center field.  So Utley is unaffected. 

 

That said, that shouldn't disqualify Utley's MVP case.  I understand Renegade's contempt as his own team's players have routinely had their stats disqualified because of where they play.  But most of Utley's HR's are punished to say the least, and perhaps his happy hitting at home is just the result of comfort, or home cooking, or the level and quality of the dirt in the batter's box, or the hitter's eye, or the creature comforts of the clubhouse.  It could be anything.  The ballpark should not be a factor when deciding these things, perhaps that's the greater point our poll creator is trying to make? 

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#22 | 73 days ago

+3 thumbs upI see what you're talking about, but I think that 'tainted' is a bit strong. While there's no doubt that he benefits from his ballpark, I don't think you can fault him for that. The MVP isn't about who puts up the best numbers anyway... it's about who is the most valuable to their team. And I think Utley makes a very strong case for that one, regardless of his "struggles" on the road.

Even if you extrapolate his road numbers over a full 162-game season worth of road games, he's on pace to hit .301, with 26 HR, 105 RBI, 178 hits, 110 runs, 57 2B, 5 3B, .400 OBP, .549 SLG, .949 OPS... those are actually excellent numbers. Combine those with his mind-blowing numbers at home, and I think you have a perfectly valid MVP candidate, regardless of how hitter-friendly his park is. It's STILL a major league stadium, and he's still putting up better numbers there than anyone else is.

However, I do see the hypocrisy with the Holliday situation... he would have had my vote last year.
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#23 | 73 days ago

RenegadeLG wrote:
That's a pace of 13 HRs and 52 RBIs.  Hardly terrible for 81 games, but nowhere near elite either.
+1 thumbs upIf he did the same thing at home he would hit 26 HR's and 104 RBI's, which is about PAR for a Chase Utley All-Star year.  Just in-case you didn't know, you need to have more than just an All-Star season to win the MVP.  He's the best 2nd baseman in baseball, no question.  And he's on target to get 13 HR's, 52 RBI's on the road, and 38 Home Runs and 85 RBI's at home.  Do the math, that 51 Home Runs and 137 RBI's.

And you're telling me if a 2nd Baseman hits 50 HR's, .300 Avg, and almost 140 RBI's, he WOULD NOT be your MVP?
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#24 | 73 days ago

+1 thumbs upHonestly...  You could find some kind of reason to call any MVP from just about the last 20 seasons in either league in baseball tainted.  Probably Cy Young winners too.  I can't hold it against him that he plays in a "hitters" park.  I like that he is playing the game the right way (I hope).  I don't hear of any off the field incidents.  He's having fun.  I would much rather see a guy do well because of where he plays, then for what he injects in himself.  <disclaimer>  I am not a Philly fan, but a somewhat disenfranchised baseball fan.
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