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Is Curt Schilling a Hall of Famer? (Edited 06/20/08 07:28PM by RenegadeLG)
Is Curt Schilling a Hall of Famer? <span style="font-size:12px;">(Edited 06/20/08 07:28PM by RenegadeLG)</span> Photo

Peter Gammons says no, 216 wins isn't enough for his era.  Buster Olney says probably but it won't be on the first try because he's crossed too many writers.  Everybody on Around the Horn and PTI (Bob Ryan on instead of Tony) are kissing his a-- and saying definitely.

Assuming Schill is done, what do YOU think?
| Closed on 09/20/08 at 05:00PM
FanIQ Pts? No | MLB, Boston Red Sox | Multiple Choice Opinion Poll
Teams:  Boston Red Sox
Players:  Curt Schilling
Team Breakout:
48 Fans 
46%a. Yes, because...
54%b. No, because...

 &nbp;
TOP COMMENT * * * * * * * * * * * *
#1 | 117 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
+6 thumbs upBased on Baseball Reference's Hall of Fame Standards he's just short of worthy.  However, it's impossible to ignore his .846 career postseason winning percentage, his all-time third lowest postseason ERA and his 5th lowest career overall WHIP (1.137 over 20 years? That's stupid).  Back to back 300 K seasons in Philly (97 & 98) and 48 BBs per 162 game average don't hurt either.  Conversely, due to injuries, his potential was never fully realized (scary thought), and the reason he doesn't have more wins.  He also had the benefit of riding the coattails of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Josh Beckett. 

I tentatively say yes.  The guy's an undeniable prick, I'm a bloody sock conspiracy theorist, and I agree with almost nothing he ever has to say - but he was a master out there.  Still, it's an absolute joke that he'll be in Cooperstown and Bert Blyleven still won't. 

Schilling is on the third tier of current pitchers with Glavine and Mussina behind Maddux/Clemens and Pedro, and there's no guarantee all of those guys are enshrined either, but his October performances put him over the hump.

Also keep in mind this is a guy who spent 15+ years in the NL, switched to the AL in the twilight of his years, and still had a 20 win season.  You see a guy like Dontrelle Willis getting shelled out of baseball altogether trying to make the same switch.  And then a guy like Pedro who isn't doing so hot switching back to the 'easier' League.
Yes, because...  
  
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#1 | 117 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
+6 thumbs upBased on Baseball Reference's Hall of Fame Standards he's just short of worthy.  However, it's impossible to ignore his .846 career postseason winning percentage, his all-time third lowest postseason ERA and his 5th lowest career overall WHIP (1.137 over 20 years? That's stupid).  Back to back 300 K seasons in Philly (97 & 98) and 48 BBs per 162 game average don't hurt either.  Conversely, due to injuries, his potential was never fully realized (scary thought), and the reason he doesn't have more wins.  He also had the benefit of riding the coattails of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Josh Beckett. 

I tentatively say yes.  The guy's an undeniable prick, I'm a bloody sock conspiracy theorist, and I agree with almost nothing he ever has to say - but he was a master out there.  Still, it's an absolute joke that he'll be in Cooperstown and Bert Blyleven still won't. 

Schilling is on the third tier of current pitchers with Glavine and Mussina behind Maddux/Clemens and Pedro, and there's no guarantee all of those guys are enshrined either, but his October performances put him over the hump.

Also keep in mind this is a guy who spent 15+ years in the NL, switched to the AL in the twilight of his years, and still had a 20 win season.  You see a guy like Dontrelle Willis getting shelled out of baseball altogether trying to make the same switch.  And then a guy like Pedro who isn't doing so hot switching back to the 'easier' League.
Yes, because...  
#2 | 116 days ago

+4 thumbs upUntil pitchers with better numbers like Bert Blyleven,Jim Kaat,and Tommy John get in no.
No, because...  
#3 | 116 days ago

maroon&gold4eve wrote:
Until pitchers with better numbers like Bert Blyleven,Jim Kaat,and Tommy John get in no.
+2 thumbs upThose guys don't have better numbers... I'm calling BS on that one.
Yes, because...  
#4 | 116 days ago

Pat wrote:
Those guys don't have better numbers... I'm calling BS on that one.
+5 thumbs up

Let the numbers speak for themself:

Bert Blyleven: 22 years,287 wins,60 shutouts,3701 strikeouts,3.31 ERA

Jim Kaat: 25 years,283 wins,31 shutouts,2461 strikeouts, 3.45 ERA

Tommy John: 26 years,288 wins,46 shutouts,2245 strikouts,3.34 ERA

Curt Schilling:20 years,216 wins,20 shutouts,3316 strikeouts,3.46 ERA

 

The only thing Schilling has the advantage in is strikeouts.He has less wins,shutouts,and the highest ERA among the 4.

Schilling would have to average 35.5 wins the next 2 seasons to match Blyleven in time played and wins.

Schilling would have to average  13.4 wins the next 5 seasons to match Kaat and 12 wins the next 6 seasons to match John.

Sorry,IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

Like I said ,NO to the HOF for Schilling until the other 3 get in.

No, because...  
#5 | 116 days ago

maroon&gold4eve wrote:

Let the numbers speak for themself:

Bert Blyleven: 22 years,287 wins,60 shutouts,3701 strikeouts,3.31 ERA

Jim Kaat: 25 years,283 wins,31 shutouts,2461 strikeouts, 3.45 ERA

Tommy John: 26 years,288 wins,46 shutouts,2245 strikouts,3.34 ERA

Curt Schilling:20 years,216 wins,20 shutouts,3316 strikeouts,3.46 ERA

 

The only thing Schilling has the advantage in is strikeouts.He has less wins,shutouts,and the highest ERA among the 4.

Schilling would have to average 35.5 wins the next 2 seasons to match Blyleven in time played and wins.

Schilling would have to average  13.4 wins the next 5 seasons to match Kaat and 12 wins the next 6 seasons to match John.

Sorry,IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

Like I said ,NO to the HOF for Schilling until the other 3 get in.

+1 thumbs up

Looks like somebody did thier homework.After reading those numbers,Absolutely NO!!!

And those no BS!

No, because...  
#6 | 116 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
I mentioned Blyleven, but he's the only one with better numbers, and they're slight.  You can't keep one guy out just because another isn't in - but it will be BS that Bert is still waiting when Curt goes in.

HOWEVER, Bert NEVER won 20 games, Bert NEVER struck out 300 batters.  He was fortunate enough to stay healthy his entire career.  Had Curt, he'd have destroyed BB's numbers.

And I realize the postseason was set up differently, but Bert was 4-1 career in the playoffs.  Easiest two rings ever.  Curt was 11-2.
Yes, because...  
#7 | 116 days ago

+2 thumbs upI say you put him in.  What hat does he wear?
#8 | 116 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
bobbyc3 wrote:
I say you put him in.  What hat does he wear?
+1 thumbs upIt's hard to escape Red Sox nation, and he won his first ring with the D'Backs, but how do you deny all the blood, sweat and tears spent in Philly?  Guess it depends how much love was lost during the divorce.  Considering he wanted to sign with the Phils if Boston didn't bring him back, I think things are alright.
Yes, because...  
#9 | 116 days ago

+1 thumbs upAs a Phillies fan, I continue to root for him and see him as a Phillie. 
#10 | 116 days ago

bobbyc3 wrote:
As a Phillies fan, I continue to root for him and see him as a Phillie. 
+3 thumbs upAs a fan of Ken Griffey Baseball '96 for Nintendo 64, I do the same.
Yes, because...  
#11 | 114 days ago

(Edited by forrest_viv)
+2 thumbs uphe pitched well when it counted most (he's still a d*ck!!!!!!)
Yes, because...  
#12 | 114 days ago

+1 thumbs upHonestly, I don't give a $hit what Peter Gammons says.  He's in!
Yes, because...  
#13 | 114 days ago

+2 thumbs upThe Hall of Fame inductions will be a joke for years to come.  Wait and see some of the winners that get in there.
Yes, because...  
#14 | 113 days ago

(Edited by Buttons)
RenegadeLG wrote:
Based on Baseball Reference's Hall of Fame Standards he's just short of worthy.  However, it's impossible to ignore his .846 career postseason winning percentage, his all-time third lowest postseason ERA and his 5th lowest career overall WHIP (1.137 over 20 years? That's stupid).  Back to back 300 K seasons in Philly (97 & 98) and 48 BBs per 162 game average don't hurt either.  Conversely, due to injuries, his potential was never fully realized (scary thought), and the reason he doesn't have more wins.  He also had the benefit of riding the coattails of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Josh Beckett. 

I tentatively say yes.  The guy's an undeniable prick, I'm a bloody sock conspiracy theorist, and I agree with almost nothing he ever has to say - but he was a master out there.  Still, it's an absolute joke that he'll be in Cooperstown and Bert Blyleven still won't. 

Schilling is on the third tier of current pitchers with Glavine and Mussina behind Maddux/Clemens and Pedro, and there's no guarantee all of those guys are enshrined either, but his October performances put him over the hump.

Also keep in mind this is a guy who spent 15+ years in the NL, switched to the AL in the twilight of his years, and still had a 20 win season.  You see a guy like Dontrelle Willis getting shelled out of baseball altogether trying to make the same switch.  And then a guy like Pedro who isn't doing so hot switching back to the 'easier' League.
+2 thumbs up

You don't honestly put Pedro and Maddux on the 2nd tier of pitchers the last 20 years do you?  Maddux is the best pitcher of our era.  Pedro dominated for 7 years like only Sandy Koufax did before him.  Those two are first ballot, no doubt.

 

Schilling's post season numbers are certainly impressive, and the bloody sock game is modern folklore, but his regular season numbers leave much to be desired.  Also, if you compare him to legit hall of famers rather than other borderline guys, you realize he doesn't stack up, i.e.:

 

Curt Schilling:  20 years; 216-146 .597 WL%;  83 CG's; 20 SO's 3261 IP; 3116 K's: 3.46 ERA

 

Greg Maddux:  23 years; 350-219 .615 WL%; 109 CG's: 35 SO's: 4621 IP 3322 K's: 3.11 ERA

 

Maddux's ERA is inflated due to the four years prior to this one where he posted  ERA's over 4.  But over the course of his career Maddux has posted an ERA under 3; 9 times, under 2.50; 6 times (and 4 years in a row) and his two best years for ERA were 1.56 and 1.63 in 94' and 95'.  By contrast Schilling has only posted an ERA mark below 3; 4 times and below 2.50; once. 

 

Postseason Schilling has Maddux by a decent margin.  But Maddux's postseason W-L doesn't tell the whole story.  His postseason ERA is 3.34 and that number is again inflated from recent years.  If you look at Maddux's postseason resume (scroll down to the post season numbers) you'll notice he dominated much like Schilling has. 

 

You might say, but we're not comparing Schilling to Maddux, we know Maddux is a shoe-in. But that's my point.  With the Hall of Fame there should be no such thing as borderline. 

 

 

No, because...  
#15 | 113 days ago

(Edited by RenegadeLG)
Buttons wrote:

You don't honestly put Pedro and Maddux on the 2nd tier of pitchers the last 20 years do you?  Maddux is the best pitcher of our era.  Pedro dominated for 7 years like only Sandy Koufax did before him.  Those two are first ballot, no doubt.

 

Schilling's post season numbers are certainly impressive, and the bloody sock game is modern folklore, but his regular season numbers leave much to be desired.  Also, if you compare him to legit hall of famers rather than other borderline guys, you realize he doesn't stack up, i.e.:

 

Curt Schilling:  20 years; 216-146 .597 WL%;  83 CG's; 20 SO's 3261 IP; 3116 K's: 3.46 ERA

 

Gr