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How about them St. Louis Cardinals
With all odds bet against them, the St.Louis Cardinals took strong hold of arguably the most unlikely title run in the history of baseball. Likely deemed the ‘Comeback Cards,’ for the rest of the eternity, this season would even have the 1969 ‘Miracle Mets,’ scratching their heads.

| Closed on 12/17/12 at 05:00PM
FanIQ Pts? No | MLB, St. Louis Cardinals | Multiple Choice Opinion Poll
Team Breakout:
8 Fans 
38%a. nice title run, i give them props
13%b. they never gave up..one of the best playoff runs in history
0%c. they are the national leagues yankees
13%d. still cant believe it and im extremely proud to be a cardinals fan
13%e. they were down to there final strike twice in game 6...unbelievable!!!
13%f. They only won because of the rally squirrel
13%g. click here if your a hater

  
33 Comments | Sorted by Most Recent First | Red = You Disagreed
Vote for your favorite comments. Fans decide the Top Comment (3+ votes) and also hide poor quality comments (4+ votes).
#1 | 1035 days ago
BDV4U (+)

Ironic that you would compare them to the 1969 Mets. That was the first year of Divisional play, thus the first NLCS, without a tie for the top spot - otherwise the Mets would never had faced the Orioles. Without the Wildcard System, imposed in 1994, the Cardinals would have never faced the Rangers in 2011.

Does this mean we have to thank Bud Selig for the wild card AND the All-Star home game?
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#2 | 1031 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Ironic that you would compare them to the 1969 Mets. That was the first year of Divisional play, thus the first NLCS, without a tie for the top spot - otherwise the Mets would never had faced the Orioles. Without the Wildcard System, imposed in 1994, the Cardinals would have never faced the Rangers in 2011.

Does this mean we have to thank Bud Selig for the wild card AND the All-Star home game?
your correct they wouldnt have even had a chance without the wildcard system, but the game has always been changing and always will i.e. they are getting ready to add 2 more wild card teams to the system and possibly get rid of divisions all together...anyhow there is no doubt in my mind that the cardinals are plenty deserving of being the 2011 champs...if there is someone that can argue the fact i would like to hear what they have to say...they overcame a lot of odds from losing there ace before spring training to being down 10 1/2 games and to being down to there final strike from losing the world series...they never gave up and showed a lot of heart and was probably one of the greateast title runs of ALL TIME!!! They took out 3 of the best teams in baseball...people crowed the phils the champs before the season began...proof that you cannot buy championships and anything can happen...GO CARDS!!! 11 IN 11!!!
still cant believe it and im extremely proud to be a cardinals fan  
#3 | 1031 days ago
BDV4U (+)

The Cardinals were built for the Tournament format, aka the playoffs. Philadelphia, Milwaukee & Texas were built for the Regular Season. Each team proved they were not designed for the other format - St. Louis by how they collapsed in July & August, only to turn it back on when it matter (lose & out, tournament style), Phillies & Brewers showed their weaknesses in a short series and were exploited and the Rangers were simply out-hustled at their own game and couldn't adjust to anyone out-slugging them.
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#4 | 1024 days ago

STLCardinalsFan wrote:
your correct they wouldnt have even had a chance without the wildcard system, but the game has always been changing and always will i.e. they are getting ready to add 2 more wild card teams to the system and possibly get rid of divisions all together...anyhow there is no doubt in my mind that the cardinals are plenty deserving of being the 2011 champs...if there is someone that can argue the fact i would like to hear what they have to say...they overcame a lot of odds from losing there ace before spring training to being down 10 1/2 games and to being down to there final strike from losing the world series...they never gave up and showed a lot of heart and was probably one of the greateast title runs of ALL TIME!!! They took out 3 of the best teams in baseball...people crowed the phils the champs before the season began...proof that you cannot buy championships and anything can happen...GO CARDS!!! 11 IN 11!!!
Those who know baseball know that no 2nd place team ever deserves even the chance to be playing for the World Series.  Let alone winning it.  If you were fair and honest with yourself you would know there is no way in hell the Cards 2nd place 6 games back finish should ever deserve a post season spot.  They over came no long odds.  In fact, by finishing 2nd the odds were on their side.  The "welfare" team has the upper hand in a short playoff series nearly every time as they are more often than not the last team to get a playoff spot. 

Only the ignorant would speak about the 2011 Cards like you just did.  Either that or the most selfish and unethical of fans in all the land.
#5 | 1024 days ago

Capt. Buzzkill strikes again

<---- You should make this your avatar m.l
they were down to there final strike twice in game 6...unbelievable!!!  
#6 | 1024 days ago

1.  Don't blame me for what Bud Selig does.
2.  There was no buzz to kill.
3.  Your comment is very ironic.  For obvious reasons.
#7 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
1.  Don't blame me for what Bud Selig does.
2.  There was no buzz to kill.
3.  Your comment is very ironic.  For obvious reasons.
Can't put it all on Selig, either. The owners and MLBPA had to approve the playoff system and the All-Star Game counting for it to move forward. Selig doesn't have Landis powers!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#8 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Can't put it all on Selig, either. The owners and MLBPA had to approve the playoff system and the All-Star Game counting for it to move forward. Selig doesn't have Landis powers!
True...  But it was his baby and he had to sell it to the other owners.  The players have already shown they don't care about the game long before 1993.

BTW...  Say what you want for George W Bush.  He will always be a great baseball owner in my mind as he was the only owner to vote against the wild card back in 1993.
#9 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
True...  But it was his baby and he had to sell it to the other owners.  The players have already shown they don't care about the game long before 1993.

BTW...  Say what you want for George W Bush.  He will always be a great baseball owner in my mind as he was the only owner to vote against the wild card back in 1993.
Not sure you can say the players didn't care. 50 more got playoff checks and owners got another round to make money. I would call that a win-win on both THEIR parts. Selig just slapped his name on it.
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#10 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Not sure you can say the players didn't care. 50 more got playoff checks and owners got another round to make money. I would call that a win-win on both THEIR parts. Selig just slapped his name on it.
I can say that the players don't care about the game because they have been against pretty much every attempt by the owners to create a true competitive balance and create situations for the game to grow to become the nation's #1 sport again.  Them OKing the welfare card is further evidence that they do not have the best interests of the game in mind.  Only their bank accounts.  Period.
#11 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
I can say that the players don't care about the game because they have been against pretty much every attempt by the owners to create a true competitive balance and create situations for the game to grow to become the nation's #1 sport again.  Them OKing the welfare card is further evidence that they do not have the best interests of the game in mind.  Only their bank accounts.  Period.
So it's ALL the PLAYERS' fault?!?
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#12 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
So it's ALL the PLAYERS' fault?!?
I never said that.  I said that the MLBPA have shown they have never had the best interest of the game in mind in anything they have ever done.
#13 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
I never said that.  I said that the MLBPA have shown they have never had the best interest of the game in mind in anything they have ever done.
And neither have the owners - they have chased the Almighty dollar longer than they players have, since the union only started in the 70s. So who does that leave looking out for the best interest of the game? Bob Costas?!?
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#14 | 1023 days ago

(Edited by ML31)
BDV4U wrote:
And neither have the owners - they have chased the Almighty dollar longer than they players have, since the union only started in the 70s. So who does that leave looking out for the best interest of the game? Bob Costas?!?
True...  But until recently the owners chase of the almighty dollar hasn't ruined the game on the field all that much.

The owners hold a lot of responsibility but a lot of what they have done can be traced back to the MLBPA's refusal to accept financial changes that would have made the game more financially stable while still maintaining the game's top status.

The MLBPA is particularly insidious in that they now essentially have all the power yet they take none of the responsibility.

BTW...  The person who is supposed to be on the lookout for the best interest in the game was the commissioner.  But since Selig took over that has killed that.  Come on...  An OWNER becomes Commissioner?  Sure.  No conflict there....
#15 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
True...  But until recently the owners chase of the almighty dollar hasn't ruined the game on the field all that much.

The owners hold a lot of responsibility but a lot of what they have done can be traced back to the MLBPA's refusal to accept financial changes that would have made the game more financially stable while still maintaining the game's top status.

The MLBPA is particularly insidious in that they now essentially have all the power yet they take none of the responsibility.

BTW...  The person who is supposed to be on the lookout for the best interest in the game was the commissioner.  But since Selig took over that has killed that.  Come on...  An OWNER becomes Commissioner?  Sure.  No conflict there....
Who are you and what have you done with ML?!?

Steinbrenner and the other owners spent themselves silly to the point they killed themselves, then expected the genie to go voluntarily back into the bottle! Teams are still spending out of control and you still expect the players to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."?

Hindsight is 20/20, but come on....
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#16 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Who are you and what have you done with ML?!?

Steinbrenner and the other owners spent themselves silly to the point they killed themselves, then expected the genie to go voluntarily back into the bottle! Teams are still spending out of control and you still expect the players to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."?

Hindsight is 20/20, but come on....
Now I'm not following.  Players say "Thanks but no thanks" to what?
#17 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
Now I'm not following.  Players say "Thanks but no thanks" to what?
Example: Kemp's 8-year, $160M. You want him to say, "Oh, NO! Way too much. Please make it for only $16M because the Dodgers are so broke!"
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#18 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Example: Kemp's 8-year, $160M. You want him to say, "Oh, NO! Way too much. Please make it for only $16M because the Dodgers are so broke!"
I never inferred that players decline absurd money given to them.  But they could have opposed a number of things the owners proposed to benefit the game overall while still keeping their inflated salaries intact.  They think short term just as much as owners do.
#19 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

BDV4U wrote:
Example: Kemp's 8-year, $160M. You want him to say, "Oh, NO! Way too much. Please make it for only $16M because the Dodgers are so broke!"
You can't have the cake, without the icing, or the pie, without the crust. You're asking them to accept one thing to benefit the game, while ignoring all of the other things that go into what makes that one thing works.

You can have all 30 teams share money at an even 3.3% and have a floor and ceiling cap that keeps competitive balance, but unless everything else is in place, it won't work - it would be a house of cards. Had this been proposed back in 1974, you would have your bust in Cooperstown. In 2011, you get a nice jacket that straps in the back, with buckles, and a padded room with nice nurses to feed you numbing medications so you don't hurt yourself!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#20 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
You can't have the cake, without the icing, or the pie, without the crust. You're asking them to accept one thing to benefit the game, while ignoring all of the other things that go into what makes that one thing works.

You can have all 30 teams share money at an even 3.3% and have a floor and ceiling cap that keeps competitive balance, but unless everything else is in place, it won't work - it would be a house of cards. Had this been proposed back in 1974, you would have your bust in Cooperstown. In 2011, you get a nice jacket that straps in the back, with buckles, and a padded room with nice nurses to feed you numbing medications so you don't hurt yourself!
Both sides need to give something to make the larger picture work for everyone.  Neither side wants to do that.  The result?  The game drops in popularity big time.  The only thing saving it is owners continue to inadvertently find new ways to shake the money tree.  Like the advent of twice sold tickets and the afore mentioned internet thing.

True revenue sharing is worthless without a salary cap.  And a salary cap is unfair without real revenue sharing.  Both are needed to restore a true competitive balance.  Since neither side will budge, owners have created a phony competitive balance by expanding playoffs.  Thus creating a more random element to the post season.  It's a Hollywood movie false front.  You see the front of the store but if you go in there is nothing there.  To the eye that doesn't look very hard things look OK.  Look a little closer and you will see there is still not balance of any kind.  The rich teams still win and the poor ones still lose.  Unfortunately there are ignorant people who are buying that scheme.  It's really sad news for the future of the game.
#21 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
Both sides need to give something to make the larger picture work for everyone.  Neither side wants to do that.  The result?  The game drops in popularity big time.  The only thing saving it is owners continue to inadvertently find new ways to shake the money tree.  Like the advent of twice sold tickets and the afore mentioned internet thing.

True revenue sharing is worthless without a salary cap.  And a salary cap is unfair without real revenue sharing.  Both are needed to restore a true competitive balance.  Since neither side will budge, owners have created a phony competitive balance by expanding playoffs.  Thus creating a more random element to the post season.  It's a Hollywood movie false front.  You see the front of the store but if you go in there is nothing there.  To the eye that doesn't look very hard things look OK.  Look a little closer and you will see there is still not balance of any kind.  The rich teams still win and the poor ones still lose.  Unfortunately there are ignorant people who are buying that scheme.  It's really sad news for the future of the game.
And you are absolutely correct! Like I said, if you had come to them, even as late as 1981, just after Nolan Ryan became the first $1M player and set up such a system, you would be a hero - like Rozelle and Tagliabue were for the NFL. After the genie has been out of the bottle this long, that puff of smoke ain't going back in! It's all MacGyver duct tape and paper clips from here on out until something happens that blows the place to smithereens!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#22 | 1023 days ago

(Edited by ML31)
BDV4U wrote:
And you are absolutely correct! Like I said, if you had come to them, even as late as 1981, just after Nolan Ryan became the first $1M player and set up such a system, you would be a hero - like Rozelle and Tagliabue were for the NFL. After the genie has been out of the bottle this long, that puff of smoke ain't going back in! It's all MacGyver duct tape and paper clips from here on out until something happens that blows the place to smithereens!
The closest they came was the '94 strike.  The real sad thing about that event was in the end, nothing changed.  My reading of the fans at that time were that many were perfectly willing to lose the post season if it resulted in a true economic change that allowed for more teams to compete.  Many were completely willing to come out and support replacement players as well.

The reason it was more possible to change then was because there were many teams hemorrhaging money.  Thanks to the internet agreement and a few other accidental income discoveries, that is not so much the case.  Further, the lame revenue sharing and luxury tax scheme implemented since are helping to keep the low revenue teams from losing like they did 18 years ago.  Not enough to make them viable competitors on the field, but enough to keep them from screaming about how they can't keep losing money.  The current system would seem to be stuck with no way to change.  MLB is not growing like it should.  It is stagnant at best.  Going backwards at worst.

PS...  The NFL is in an entirely different boat.  Much easier for them mainly because there are no local TV deals.  It's all national.   If there were, you would see the same thing happen to the NFL as happened to MLB.  Although maybe not as their PA is the weakest of the lot.
#23 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
The closest they came was the '94 strike.  The real sad thing about that event was in the end, nothing changed.  My reading of the fans at that time were that many were perfectly willing to lose the post season if it resulted in a true economic change that allowed for more teams to compete.  Many were completely willing to come out and support replacement players as well.

The reason it was more possible to change then was because there were many teams hemorrhaging money.  Thanks to the internet agreement and a few other accidental income discoveries, that is not so much the case.  Further, the lame revenue sharing and luxury tax scheme implemented since are helping to keep the low revenue teams from losing like they did 18 years ago.  Not enough to make them viable competitors on the field, but enough to keep them from screaming about how they can't keep losing money.  The current system would seem to be stuck with no way to change.  MLB is not growing like it should.  It is stagnant at best.  Going backwards at worst.

PS...  The NFL is in an entirely different boat.  Much easier for them mainly because there are no local TV deals.  It's all national.   If there were, you would see the same thing happen to the NFL as happened to MLB.  Although maybe not as their PA is the weakest of the lot.
Again, the owners pretty much did it to themselves. They only needed a certain number of votes to carry. The big markets were a block. They threw just enough money at the Tier II markets to sway them over to their side. The Tier III teams then caved on the weight of those 2 parties, leaving the lower-rung teams with no choice.

Money and politics will always be the enemy of common sense! Look at the mess the entire country is in, thanks to Congress and their stonewalling on everything.
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#24 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Again, the owners pretty much did it to themselves. They only needed a certain number of votes to carry. The big markets were a block. They threw just enough money at the Tier II markets to sway them over to their side. The Tier III teams then caved on the weight of those 2 parties, leaving the lower-rung teams with no choice.

Money and politics will always be the enemy of common sense! Look at the mess the entire country is in, thanks to Congress and their stonewalling on everything.
They share the blame with the players.  The reason I tend to side with the owners in MLB-Player disputes is because in the past the owners were willing to try something to help.  It has been the players who stonewalled everything positive.  They only things they allowed to happen were the things they needed to PREVENT from happening!

There is also a difference between stonewalling something that won't work and stonewalling out of pure greed.  The country's issues have been smoldering for the last 8 years.  And it wasn't caused but the actions (or lack of if you like) of the current congress.  Whether or not things would be better or worse had congress acted differently is a matter of debate elsewhere.
#25 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
They share the blame with the players.  The reason I tend to side with the owners in MLB-Player disputes is because in the past the owners were willing to try something to help.  It has been the players who stonewalled everything positive.  They only things they allowed to happen were the things they needed to PREVENT from happening!

There is also a difference between stonewalling something that won't work and stonewalling out of pure greed.  The country's issues have been smoldering for the last 8 years.  And it wasn't caused but the actions (or lack of if you like) of the current congress.  Whether or not things would be better or worse had congress acted differently is a matter of debate elsewhere.
Again - trying to put the genie back in the bottle. You can't expect huge concessions on the part of the players once they've had everything, including the platinum & gold-plated kitchen sink given to them by the owners for 35 years. I'm not really on either side - they are both right AND both wrong in these matters, but I cannot blame the players for taking what management freely gave them. No one held a gun to their heads and made them fork over $100-$200M payrolls per year.

The only ones hurt are the families that have to pay $15-$100 a ticket, $5 a hotdog and $7 a soda to pay for everyone's greed, then come to their home, where their property tax is raised to pay for a stadium to keep that team there because the ownership won't lift a finger to pay for their own place to play, yet expects to get half the income from parking and concessions!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#26 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
They share the blame with the players.  The reason I tend to side with the owners in MLB-Player disputes is because in the past the owners were willing to try something to help.  It has been the players who stonewalled everything positive.  They only things they allowed to happen were the things they needed to PREVENT from happening!

There is also a difference between stonewalling something that won't work and stonewalling out of pure greed.  The country's issues have been smoldering for the last 8 years.  And it wasn't caused but the actions (or lack of if you like) of the current congress.  Whether or not things would be better or worse had congress acted differently is a matter of debate elsewhere.
Again - trying to put the genie back in the bottle. You can't expect huge concessions on the part of the players once they've had everything, including the platinum & gold-plated kitchen sink given to them by the owners for 35 years. I'm not really on either side - they are both right AND both wrong in these matters, but I cannot blame the players for taking what management freely gave them. No one held a gun to their heads and made them fork over $100-$200M payrolls per year.

The only ones hurt are the families that have to pay $15-$100 a ticket, $5 a hotdog and $7 a soda to pay for everyone's greed, then come to their home, where their property tax is raised to pay for a stadium to keep that team there because the ownership won't lift a finger to pay for their own place to play, yet expects to get half the income from parking and concessions!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#27 | 1023 days ago

Perhaps that is what it has become.  But it is still possible to take small steps towards that goal rather than just give up as the owners have. 

I don't blame players for accepting the best deal from the richest team.  Few do.  I do blame them for trying to block every attempt to create a quality on the field product.  I also blame owners themselves for being duped by Marvin Miller way back in the 70's that helped create the chasm between the haves and the have nots to begin with.  And those who came after for allowing it to continue.
#28 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
Perhaps that is what it has become.  But it is still possible to take small steps towards that goal rather than just give up as the owners have. 

I don't blame players for accepting the best deal from the richest team.  Few do.  I do blame them for trying to block every attempt to create a quality on the field product.  I also blame owners themselves for being duped by Marvin Miller way back in the 70's that helped create the chasm between the haves and the have nots to begin with.  And those who came after for allowing it to continue.
Well, as the NFL, NBA and NHL are learning in this century, trying to break the union, instead of working with them for each other's mutual benefit and trust, caused that chasm. Even though we're 15 years past those hurt feelings, they still exist and are still remembered. Who knows? When the old guard dies, the Utopia you seek may arise.
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#29 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
Well, as the NFL, NBA and NHL are learning in this century, trying to break the union, instead of working with them for each other's mutual benefit and trust, caused that chasm. Even though we're 15 years past those hurt feelings, they still exist and are still remembered. Who knows? When the old guard dies, the Utopia you seek may arise.
The NFL pretty much has broken the NFLPA.  That organization is as weak and toothless as one can get and still exist.   Is it a coincidence that the most popular professional sport in this country is also the one where the organized players are treated the worst?  Not that they are mistreated of course...  But compared to the MLBPA the NFL players are practically indentured servants!

The MLBPA just has far too much power over the game.  I would say that the Commissioner needs to get some power back but as long as he functions as merely the owner's mouth that cannot be allowed to happen either.  I think the only thing that can help MLB today is something that will never ever be allowed to happen.  The Commissioner needs to be 100% independent of the owners and players and cannot be held accountable to either.  But there is no 3rd party in the system to allow for that.  Even if there were, neither the owners or players would even WANT that!   The inmates are truly in charge of that asylum. 
#30 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
The NFL pretty much has broken the NFLPA.  That organization is as weak and toothless as one can get and still exist.   Is it a coincidence that the most popular professional sport in this country is also the one where the organized players are treated the worst?  Not that they are mistreated of course...  But compared to the MLBPA the NFL players are practically indentured servants!

The MLBPA just has far too much power over the game.  I would say that the Commissioner needs to get some power back but as long as he functions as merely the owner's mouth that cannot be allowed to happen either.  I think the only thing that can help MLB today is something that will never ever be allowed to happen.  The Commissioner needs to be 100% independent of the owners and players and cannot be held accountable to either.  But there is no 3rd party in the system to allow for that.  Even if there were, neither the owners or players would even WANT that!   The inmates are truly in charge of that asylum. 
2 words - Fay Vincent! He tried to do what you suggested and he was vilified.

The NFLPA & the NHLPA have disbanded, or whatever the legal term is, several times to gain leverage with national mediators. The NBAPA was in the process of doing the same thing this month when a deal was finally struck. So these organizations are not just weak, they are merely facades!
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#31 | 1023 days ago

BDV4U wrote:
2 words - Fay Vincent! He tried to do what you suggested and he was vilified.

The NFLPA & the NHLPA have disbanded, or whatever the legal term is, several times to gain leverage with national mediators. The NBAPA was in the process of doing the same thing this month when a deal was finally struck. So these organizations are not just weak, they are merely facades!
I recall Vincent tried to realign (the right thing to do at the time, BTW).  Owners didn't vote for it so Vincent decided to use the "best interest of baseball" clause.  At that point he was vilified by the owners and there was no way he would be re-elected to the post.  So he quit.  Again, the Commissioner was held accountable by the owners.  Which shouldn't happen.  After that, the owners severely cut back on the powers of the Commissioner (including removing the "best interest" clause) and appointed one of their own to the post.

BTW...  These sports organizations technically aren't Unions.  They are Associations or Guilds or anything but a Union.  Unions generally do not allow for individual members to negotiate individual contracts.  It kind of defeats the purpose of being a union of workers.
#32 | 1023 days ago
BDV4U (+)

ML31 wrote:
I recall Vincent tried to realign (the right thing to do at the time, BTW).  Owners didn't vote for it so Vincent decided to use the "best interest of baseball" clause.  At that point he was vilified by the owners and there was no way he would be re-elected to the post.  So he quit.  Again, the Commissioner was held accountable by the owners.  Which shouldn't happen.  After that, the owners severely cut back on the powers of the Commissioner (including removing the "best interest" clause) and appointed one of their own to the post.

BTW...  These sports organizations technically aren't Unions.  They are Associations or Guilds or anything but a Union.  Unions generally do not allow for individual members to negotiate individual contracts.  It kind of defeats the purpose of being a union of workers.
That was the point I was making about Vincent. Giamanti was murdered. If they did that with Vincent, it would be suspicious, so they forced him out. They removed the balls and teeth ever since.
They only won because of the rally squirrel  
#33 | 889 days ago

I GAVE AN ANSWER TO YOUR POLL 
they never gave up..one of the best playoff runs in history  

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