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11
The Future of MMA
If you put on your prophet's hat; where do you see the state of MMA ten years from now?
| Closed on 09/18/11 at 05:00PM
FanIQ Pts? No | MMA | Multiple Choice Opinion Poll
Team Breakout:
43 Fans 
 1. The Martial Arts aspect will be: (0 points)
44%a. Focused more on grappling & submissions.
21%b. Focused more on ground & pound.
35%c. Focused more on stand up with less time allowed to work for improved positions on the ground.
 2. Will MMA become more about: (0 points)
7%a. The "Show". Like WWE?
60%b. The Fighting & Fighters?
33%c. Or the status quo ?
 3. Will there be any real competition for the UFC, or does Dana swallow the whole world of MMA? (0 points)
58%a. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!
42%b. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.

  
52 Comments | Sorted by Most Recent First | Red = You Disagreed
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#1 | 1857 days ago

Anyone care to get a little more specific & make a comment about how you see this playing out?
1. Focused more on stand up with less time allowed to work for improved positions on the ground.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#2 | 1846 days ago

 Like it or not, Dana is an excellent business man and he is already in the process of swallowing up the rest of the MMA world. There is no real competition outside of the UFC so he's pretty much won. He's got most of the talent now and the audience to support it so until the sport itself dies off the UFC is going to rule.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#3 | 1835 days ago

There will always be someone competting against the UFC for fans. StrikeForces has a huge fan base and after they picked up Fedor it got even bigger so I dont belive that Dana White will ever be able to get rid of all his competition no matter how hard he trys
1. Focused more on ground & pound.  2. Focused more on ground & pound.  3. Focused more on ground & pound.  
#4 | 1835 days ago

UFC will fully eclipse boxing in ten years as the premiere combat sport. More and More fights will take place standing. Ground and pound will still be a factor but as fighters train more and more with submissions they usually will even each other out.
1. Focused more on stand up with less time allowed to work for improved positions on the ground.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#5 | 1800 days ago

(Edited by MacDoogie)
I don't think any answer is correct. Eventually MMA will eventualy no longer be a clash of style but a clash of skill overall. There won't be Boxing, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo ect., eventually, it's gonna mold to be one complete style. Nobody is gonna suck in one area of the game and become exploited, MMA will pare down to a style in itself, not a mix of them.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#6 | 1800 days ago

whatever happens i assure you that the ground game won't begin to disapear
most submissions you cant just even out or figure out etc.
grapplers aren't equal, just as strikers aren't equal
they will never just 'cancel each other out' in the same way that strikers will never just 'cancel each other out'
and i do agree with you macdoogie in fact thats already  happening today, i remember just a few years back when in order to train for mma you literally had to go to 3-6 different dojo's and gyms unless you part of one of those big wrestler or IFL camps
these days you can find a gym purely dedicated to mma almost anywhere
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#7 | 1794 days ago

Think of the fututre of the various MMA organizations like football. In the early days, the various football teams were widespread and not very profitable but when they finally merged the NFL would later become the most powerful sports organiztion in the world. In conclusion, I predict within twenty years all of the MMA organizations will merge into one.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#8 | 1793 days ago

MacDoogie wrote:
Think of the fututre of the various MMA organizations like football. In the early days, the various football teams were widespread and not very profitable but when they finally merged the NFL would later become the most powerful sports organiztion in the world. In conclusion, I predict within twenty years all of the MMA organizations will merge into one.
although this is probably true, i hope not. i personally enjoy the diversity of organizations, i just hope fluency and diplomacy between the various organizations vastly improves so fighters can switch organizations back and forth quickly with no BS, get better pay for fighters outside UFC, maybe some co-hosted events, no long binding contracts on fighters, fight other fighters outside there organization...so we don't have any more fedor situations and we can see more champ vs champ matches; although I imagine they will all be unified somewhat under the UFC
in all probability UFC will become the only major mma org left but there will always be the 'little league' state organizations
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#9 | 1793 days ago

I'm personally over anyone trying to take a bite at the UFC. Dana Ward created a dynasty with the best fighters... PERIOD. 
1. Focused more on stand up with less time allowed to work for improved positions on the ground.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#10 | 1793 days ago

(Edited by RichyMcWiggleSr)
phillysportchik wrote:
I'm personally over anyone trying to take a bite at the UFC. Dana Ward created a dynasty with the best fighters... PERIOD. 
Yup!  Maf-fakken right on point!

Now he is getting a little weird with the matchups, and fighters are fighting too often, so it'd help if he spread out the length of time between each individual fighters matchup a little bit more, and found a way to increase their purse to allow it ............... but ............ ultimately I think that comes down to the fighter-agent push moreso than it does to his opinion (for the most part), sooooooo

LONG LIVE UFC!!!  All the other clown-ops trying to live up to it have a LONG Fn way to go!!!!!!

***I'd love to see Dana figure out a way to get The California Kid over to the darkside!  I'm curious to see how good he really is!***
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#11 | 1793 days ago

RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
Yup!  Maf-fakken right on point!

Now he is getting a little weird with the matchups, and fighters are fighting too often, so it'd help if he spread out the length of time between each individual fighters matchup a little bit more, and found a way to increase their purse to allow it ............... but ............ ultimately I think that comes down to the fighter-agent push moreso than it does to his opinion (for the most part), sooooooo

LONG LIVE UFC!!!  All the other clown-ops trying to live up to it have a LONG Fn way to go!!!!!!

***I'd love to see Dana figure out a way to get The California Kid over to the darkside!  I'm curious to see how good he really is!***

other organizations aren't trying to 'take a bite' out of UFC, UFC is trying to crush all the other orgs around and so far they've been pretty succesful ever since PRIDE fell

fighters aren't fighting too often..you just dont watch most of them i suspect, they regularly have around 3-4 months at minimum and fighters receive tipends for their training, the fight purse is just the big bonus, all those other "clown-ops" have been there for a long time, most before the UFC, so there not trying to live up to it...they're set

and Urijah does fight for Dana....WEC is part of the UFC it's just a lighter class....the only top fighter Dana doesn't have is Fedor, i suggest you look that name up on wikipedia if you wish to sound knowledgable on the topic of mma

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#12 | 1793 days ago

hapkido_warrior wrote:

other organizations aren't trying to 'take a bite' out of UFC, UFC is trying to crush all the other orgs around and so far they've been pretty succesful ever since PRIDE fell

fighters aren't fighting too often..you just dont watch most of them i suspect, they regularly have around 3-4 months at minimum and fighters receive tipends for their training, the fight purse is just the big bonus, all those other "clown-ops" have been there for a long time, most before the UFC, so there not trying to live up to it...they're set

and Urijah does fight for Dana....WEC is part of the UFC it's just a lighter class....the only top fighter Dana doesn't have is Fedor, i suggest you look that name up on wikipedia if you wish to sound knowledgable on the topic of mma

So you're telling me Urijah Faber is a recognized belt holder in the UFC??  Negative Ghost Rider.

A few months for someone to recover from a beat down and than try and train for a new style of fighter is absolutely Fn retarded!  It'd take a known striker at least 3 or 4 months to reasonably get good at grappling (ie. Chuck Liddel <~~~ Why do you think he never really grappled???)

UFC is what it is, BECAUSE of the Gracie family!  The other "Clown Ops" may have been around longer, not sure, but it wasn't until they put this together that MMA became a popular sport, and I've been watching since before the Gracie-Shamrock fight, so I don't really need wikipedia to learn anything.

The WEC wasn't even formed until 2001, and whether it has anything to do with Dana is absolutely irrelevent.  They don't "want to be" nor "are they" a part of UFC.  They do focus on lightweight fighters, but that's it.  They are a competitor!  Until Urijah steps into a ring to fight under the UFC, he won't be a beltholder recognized by them!  <~~~ And I do think he's good enough, and I do think he should!
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#13 | 1793 days ago

(I wasn't saying other MMA groups, like WEC, were "trying to take a bite out of the UFC" ... I was simply saying ... They are trying to live up to it.  And they are trying, but aren't able.)
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#14 | 1793 days ago

RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
So you're telling me Urijah Faber is a recognized belt holder in the UFC??  Negative Ghost Rider.

A few months for someone to recover from a beat down and than try and train for a new style of fighter is absolutely Fn retarded!  It'd take a known striker at least 3 or 4 months to reasonably get good at grappling (ie. Chuck Liddel <~~~ Why do you think he never really grappled???)

UFC is what it is, BECAUSE of the Gracie family!  The other "Clown Ops" may have been around longer, not sure, but it wasn't until they put this together that MMA became a popular sport, and I've been watching since before the Gracie-Shamrock fight, so I don't really need wikipedia to learn anything.

The WEC wasn't even formed until 2001, and whether it has anything to do with Dana is absolutely irrelevent.  They don't "want to be" nor "are they" a part of UFC.  They do focus on lightweight fighters, but that's it.  They are a competitor!  Until Urijah steps into a ring to fight under the UFC, he won't be a beltholder recognized by them!  <~~~ And I do think he's good enough, and I do think he should!
Faber isn't a "recognized belt holder" in any organization at the present time because he has lost two, count them two times in champianship matches to Mike Brown in the WEC...... so what are you trying to get at ? Also; the same company that owns the UFC also owns the WEC. Zuffa = 90% the Fertita Bro.s + 10% Dana White.
1. Focused more on stand up with less time allowed to work for improved positions on the ground.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#15 | 1793 days ago

(Edited by RichyMcWiggleSr)
johnsward66 wrote:
Faber isn't a "recognized belt holder" in any organization at the present time because he has lost two, count them two times in champianship matches to Mike Brown in the WEC...... so what are you trying to get at ? Also; the same company that owns the UFC also owns the WEC. Zuffa = 90% the Fertita Bro.s + 10% Dana White.
I worded it wrong ... He's not a "beltholder" he's a former champ ... and I saw both fights.

Again, it matters not who owns either organization.  You're argument was that the WEC "is part of the UFC its just a lighter class." 

The WEC, regardless of who owns it, is a seperate entity.  Eventually they may try to merge the fighters into one organization and have them fight for a single belt in each class, but they don't currently.

So, I should've said, "Mike Brown is not a recognized beltholder in the UFC" ... he's simply a champion in another league.  (And the UFC has fight classes all the way down to 155, but the WEC only has fight classes up to 185).

I'm thinking you have the WEC confused with another entity, because this is at the bottom of their site, and they make no mention of anything "UFC" anywhere in their history ........... on their official site.

"This website is the only official website of World Extreme Cagefighting® and is © 2009 Copyright WEC Holdings, LLC. Commercial reproduction, distribution or transmission of any part or parts of this website or any information contained therein by any means whatsoever without the prior written permission of WEC Holdings, LLC is not permitted"  <~~~ Copied from:  http://www.wec.tv/index.cfm?fa=misc.aboutus

(Just read an article where Dana talks about purchasing WEC in 2007.  Interesting.  Can't figure out why they don't talk about that ... stand corrected there)
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#16 | 1793 days ago

RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
I worded it wrong ... He's not a "beltholder" he's a former champ ... and I saw both fights.

Again, it matters not who owns either organization.  You're argument was that the WEC "is part of the UFC its just a lighter class." 

The WEC, regardless of who owns it, is a seperate entity.  Eventually they may try to merge the fighters into one organization and have them fight for a single belt in each class, but they don't currently.

So, I should've said, "Mike Brown is not a recognized beltholder in the UFC" ... he's simply a champion in another league.  (And the UFC has fight classes all the way down to 155, but the WEC only has fight classes up to 185).

I'm thinking you have the WEC confused with another entity, because this is at the bottom of their site, and they make no mention of anything "UFC" anywhere in their history ........... on their official site.

"This website is the only official website of World Extreme Cagefighting® and is © 2009 Copyright WEC Holdings, LLC. Commercial reproduction, distribution or transmission of any part or parts of this website or any information contained therein by any means whatsoever without the prior written permission of WEC Holdings, LLC is not permitted"  <~~~ Copied from:  http://www.wec.tv/index.cfm?fa=misc.aboutus

(Just read an article where Dana talks about purchasing WEC in 2007.  Interesting.  Can't figure out why they don't talk about that ... stand corrected there)

well you've succesfully said multipe errors..half corrected them and now stand trying to defend your original argument when you know it's not true..
WEC fighters won't compete with UFC because than they would have to jump weight...they fight in the weight classes in the WEC because they don't want to do that...WEC is in no way competition with UFC

up there you mentioned some nonsense about grapplers and used chuck liddel as your example...firstly, most of the guys in mma have grappling backgrounds...secondly, chuck liddel didn't grapple because he was a spectacular grappler, he wrestled through highschool and college; you think grappling is a choice? no, if a grappler decides to grapple with you, then your in a grappling match unless you've got the skill to escape (which comes from grappling) secondly you claim to have watched since royce fought ken and aren't sure if those other mma orgs were around longer? i find it impossible to believe considering the popularity of pride in those early days that you purely watched UFC. and you later proved my theory with your assumptions on chuck and the fact that you went to WEC's website and copied something unrelated.

LLC is the same company that owns the UFC bud...the company UFC isn't the financial base...LLC owns both UFC and WEC, both are owned by fertita brothers and Dana white. so no i'm not getting it confused. you just couldn't figure out something very basic in your hour or so of combing the WEC website

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#17 | 1793 days ago

also after re-reading your original response i see it was an attempt to say that the 3-4 months isn't long enough and no that isn't true at all...
it generally takes around 1 month to recover, and than they condition and continue to work on their game...they don't learn and train a new style for a new fighter..virtually ever, if they do so than they'll take six months and do a full training camp but training for a completely new style once your in the UFC is unheard of
and again this is the minimum, most guys get 6 months and some get 8-12
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#18 | 1793 days ago

hapkido_warrior wrote:

well you've succesfully said multipe errors..half corrected them and now stand trying to defend your original argument when you know it's not true..
WEC fighters won't compete with UFC because than they would have to jump weight...they fight in the weight classes in the WEC because they don't want to do that...WEC is in no way competition with UFC

up there you mentioned some nonsense about grapplers and used chuck liddel as your example...firstly, most of the guys in mma have grappling backgrounds...secondly, chuck liddel didn't grapple because he was a spectacular grappler, he wrestled through highschool and college; you think grappling is a choice? no, if a grappler decides to grapple with you, then your in a grappling match unless you've got the skill to escape (which comes from grappling) secondly you claim to have watched since royce fought ken and aren't sure if those other mma orgs were around longer? i find it impossible to believe considering the popularity of pride in those early days that you purely watched UFC. and you later proved my theory with your assumptions on chuck and the fact that you went to WEC's website and copied something unrelated.

LLC is the same company that owns the UFC bud...the company UFC isn't the financial base...LLC owns both UFC and WEC, both are owned by fertita brothers and Dana white. so no i'm not getting it confused. you just couldn't figure out something very basic in your hour or so of combing the WEC website

Good grief man, you've got this all twisted.

1.  LLC stands for limited liability corporation.
2.  I never knew about Pride.  I started watching UFC, as many Marines in my unit did, strictly based on its popularity.
3.  I mentioned WEC focuses on lower weight classes.  That does not mean that those weight classes don't exist in the UFC.  You can check that.  UFC has all weight classes in the WEC, plus heavier ones.  One does not have to win at the Heavyweight Level to own a belt <~~~ Not very difficult to comprehend since the WEC follows the same path of logic.
4.  I admitted I saw an article in which Dana talked about purchasing the WEC, but nobody talks about him as it pertains to the WEC ... even the WEC.
5.  You've yet to refute the point that UFC and the WEC are seperate entities, except that you mention that Dana owns both <~~~ Which if you understood the basic construction of companies would refute itself.
6.  Liddell was widely known for striking, not grappling or takedowns.  He only used his wrestling background as a defense AGAINST being taken down.  Everyone knows this.

So aside from not knowing, as with probably most people, that Dana had any ownership in the WEC I've really not mistated anything.

And I'm lost as to why a 155lb fighter in the WEC would have to "Jump weight" to fight a 155lb fighter in the UFC??
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#19 | 1793 days ago
Mr_Rogers (+)

I predict that the UFC will be bigger than ever, its boxing that will be in question...which is unfortunate.

#20 | 1793 days ago

(Edited by Leroyjonass)
RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
Good grief man, you've got this all twisted.

1.  LLC stands for limited liability corporation.
2.  I never knew about Pride.  I started watching UFC, as many Marines in my unit did, strictly based on its popularity.
3.  I mentioned WEC focuses on lower weight classes.  That does not mean that those weight classes don't exist in the UFC.  You can check that.  UFC has all weight classes in the WEC, plus heavier ones.  One does not have to win at the Heavyweight Level to own a belt <~~~ Not very difficult to comprehend since the WEC follows the same path of logic.
4.  I admitted I saw an article in which Dana talked about purchasing the WEC, but nobody talks about him as it pertains to the WEC ... even the WEC.
5.  You've yet to refute the point that UFC and the WEC are seperate entities, except that you mention that Dana owns both <~~~ Which if you understood the basic construction of companies would refute itself.
6.  Liddell was widely known for striking, not grappling or takedowns.  He only used his wrestling background as a defense AGAINST being taken down.  Everyone knows this.

So aside from not knowing, as with probably most people, that Dana had any ownership in the WEC I've really not mistated anything.

And I'm lost as to why a 155lb fighter in the WEC would have to "Jump weight" to fight a 155lb fighter in the UFC??
i dont know much about the WEC but your right about liddel and this seems to make sense
1. Focused more on ground & pound.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#21 | 1793 days ago

RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
Good grief man, you've got this all twisted.

1.  LLC stands for limited liability corporation.
2.  I never knew about Pride.  I started watching UFC, as many Marines in my unit did, strictly based on its popularity.
3.  I mentioned WEC focuses on lower weight classes.  That does not mean that those weight classes don't exist in the UFC.  You can check that.  UFC has all weight classes in the WEC, plus heavier ones.  One does not have to win at the Heavyweight Level to own a belt <~~~ Not very difficult to comprehend since the WEC follows the same path of logic.
4.  I admitted I saw an article in which Dana talked about purchasing the WEC, but nobody talks about him as it pertains to the WEC ... even the WEC.
5.  You've yet to refute the point that UFC and the WEC are seperate entities, except that you mention that Dana owns both <~~~ Which if you understood the basic construction of companies would refute itself.
6.  Liddell was widely known for striking, not grappling or takedowns.  He only used his wrestling background as a defense AGAINST being taken down.  Everyone knows this.

So aside from not knowing, as with probably most people, that Dana had any ownership in the WEC I've really not mistated anything.

And I'm lost as to why a 155lb fighter in the WEC would have to "Jump weight" to fight a 155lb fighter in the UFC??
1- possibly true, i dont focus on that normally i just know i see LLC in WEC and UFC stuff (good job looking this up on google)
2- yet many fighters jumped back and forth between pride and UFC...you forgot them and didn't care whenever they went over to Japan?
3- UFC doesn't have every weight class WEC has, the only crossover is in the 155 pound division which means besides the lightweights there is no competition and that competition is between fighters not organizations...Dana isn't going to set up his cards for UFC and WEC on the same day and have them compete against each other, WEC is free right now actually and is just to draw in more fans and viewership of mma, fighters can (and do) jump between WEC and UFC whenever they want, the contracts on the fighters dont need to be changed so they're all in one big pool, just under different banners thus one entity
4,5- covered this in 3.....
6- correct, that is exactly what i was saying however, this is not what you said up above "It'd take a known striker at least 3 or 4 months to reasonably get good at grappling (ie. Chuck Liddel <~~~ Why do you think he never really grappled???)"
theres your own writing...so again good job looking that up?
you are right a 155 wouldn't have to but any other weight class (all of the other one's in the WEC) would
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#22 | 1793 days ago

Leroyjonass wrote:
i dont know much about the WEC but your right about liddel and this seems to make sense
Google won't get anyone very reliable information.

I stated inaccurately that the WEC has weight classes "up to 185".  I just did a quick check and they actually have fighters up to 205.
The UFC has tons more fighters, all at 155 and up.  So ... they do have common weight classes ... which was only stated to debunk your statement that the WEC was part of the UFC, just it's lower weight classes.

The only link you've shown between the two companies is Dana ... and he's more of a fight promoter than he is anything.  And, yes, fighters aren't locked to either the UFC or the WEC, but there isn't much room in the UFC for fighters in the WEC, unless they are above 155 ............. not to mention there is much more competition!

And a UFC fighter,  in almost any case, wouldn't go fight in the WEC, unless he was really hurting for dough, because the purse difference is HUGE!  Even Dana admits that ..................... which is why many "speculate" at some point they will merge.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#23 | 1792 days ago

RichyMcWiggleSr wrote:
Google won't get anyone very reliable information.

I stated inaccurately that the WEC has weight classes "up to 185".  I just did a quick check and they actually have fighters up to 205.
The UFC has tons more fighters, all at 155 and up.  So ... they do have common weight classes ... which was only stated to debunk your statement that the WEC was part of the UFC, just it's lower weight classes.

The only link you've shown between the two companies is Dana ... and he's more of a fight promoter than he is anything.  And, yes, fighters aren't locked to either the UFC or the WEC, but there isn't much room in the UFC for fighters in the WEC, unless they are above 155 ............. not to mention there is much more competition!

And a UFC fighter,  in almost any case, wouldn't go fight in the WEC, unless he was really hurting for dough, because the purse difference is HUGE!  Even Dana admits that ..................... which is why many "speculate" at some point they will merge.
again your information is unreliable..it went up to 205 before UFC purchased it, now it has bantamweight and featherweight; 112-135, 136-145- it does not go up that high
seriously look this up. and make sure your dates are right, unless i'm wrong (and i didn't look this up so i might be) WEC was bought in 2001 so check it's modern weight classes
you must've been correct about google then if this is what you got on your check.

and your wrong again, i've seen UFC fighters transition to UFC, it's mostly the other way around because of the payday and i already refuted your next point in my statement above

you've got the purse difference backward and although it is large it's not quite that big...UFC pays larger purses than WEC by about 30-40% however, the tipends remain about the same
many speculate they will merge because there isn't any real reason to keep them seperate as they are one entity...
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#24 | 1792 days ago

the two weight classes i mentioned were in addition to the one cross weight class at one fifty five, since that wasn't clear above
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#25 | 1790 days ago

hapkido_warrior wrote:
again your information is unreliable..it went up to 205 before UFC purchased it, now it has bantamweight and featherweight; 112-135, 136-145- it does not go up that high
seriously look this up. and make sure your dates are right, unless i'm wrong (and i didn't look this up so i might be) WEC was bought in 2001 so check it's modern weight classes
you must've been correct about google then if this is what you got on your check.

and your wrong again, i've seen UFC fighters transition to UFC, it's mostly the other way around because of the payday and i already refuted your next point in my statement above

you've got the purse difference backward and although it is large it's not quite that big...UFC pays larger purses than WEC by about 30-40% however, the tipends remain about the same
many speculate they will merge because there isn't any real reason to keep them seperate as they are one entity...
Like I said, Google won't do you a lick of good.  I went to the WEC's and the UFC's sites, so if my information is incorrect, it's because they are incorrect <~~~ Highly unlikely

Even Dana disagrees with your comment about the purses (I read an interview he gave himself).

I didn't say UFC/WEC Fighters "Couldn't" transition between the two fighting organizations, I only said it's more likely for a fighter to want to go from the WEC to the UFC, because the purse is better ............................ and like you said, there are probably fighters going from the UFC to the WEC .... a fight's a fight and a purse is a purse to some.

I stated the "UFC fighter most likely wouldn't transition unless he was hurting for dough, because the purse difference is huge"  <~~~ Meaning the WEC's purses are smaller.  So we're in agreement there.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#26 | 1790 days ago

all right, that sounds like your saying a UFC fighter would transition to WEC because he needed more money..but he'd be making less, i guess it's just backwards- we're agreed there then
however, all these factors clearly point that UFC and WEC form one entity, the only crossover weight class is 155, WEC and UFC are on at different times and dates...same pool of fighters...owned by the same company....sanctioned by the same athletic commission...what seperates them beyond the fact that they aren't on the same network and they're names are different?
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#27 | 1785 days ago

I think it won't change too much in the near future. In the distant future, it might be more like Pride. Just real eye-popping stuff.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#28 | 1777 days ago
angeltwo (+)

MacDoogie wrote:
I don't think any answer is correct. Eventually MMA will eventualy no longer be a clash of style but a clash of skill overall. There won't be Boxing, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo ect., eventually, it's gonna mold to be one complete style. Nobody is gonna suck in one area of the game and become exploited, MMA will pare down to a style in itself, not a mix of them.
I agree with you.  It is already turning into it's own thing.  And, people are finding ways to train for it, like what works the best.  You find the fighters are becoming athletes now.  Not just a bunch of brawlers, but top notch athletes, with great cardio, power and agility.  It is becoming a legitimate sport and is here to stay...A~
#29 | 1777 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
I agree with you.  It is already turning into it's own thing.  And, people are finding ways to train for it, like what works the best.  You find the fighters are becoming athletes now.  Not just a bunch of brawlers, but top notch athletes, with great cardio, power and agility.  It is becoming a legitimate sport and is here to stay...A~
it's been that way for a while..and all this, they're "athletes now not fighters" is stupid
being an athlete is easy, you just have to be born with talent and work at it, go through the motions
fighters have always had "great cardio, power and agility" most of these guys were collegiate wrestlers or grappling champs, and they had better cardio, power and agility than your "top notch athletes"
UFC was never a bunch of bar room brawlers, it was always top guys who worked hard and were generally class acts; i don't know where you new fans keep coming up with the idea that the sport used to be some a bunch of street fighters with no training and no class but it never was like that
the only difference these days is that it has melded all the different main components of the original types of fighters in it; these days you learn a lot of everything and build a strategy focusing on one but using all of them
and are you trapped in 1998 or something? Mccain isn't calling it human cockfighting anymore, it's been legitamate and here to stay for a while
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#30 | 1777 days ago
angeltwo (+)

hapkido_warrior wrote:
it's been that way for a while..and all this, they're "athletes now not fighters" is stupid
being an athlete is easy, you just have to be born with talent and work at it, go through the motions
fighters have always had "great cardio, power and agility" most of these guys were collegiate wrestlers or grappling champs, and they had better cardio, power and agility than your "top notch athletes"
UFC was never a bunch of bar room brawlers, it was always top guys who worked hard and were generally class acts; i don't know where you new fans keep coming up with the idea that the sport used to be some a bunch of street fighters with no training and no class but it never was like that
the only difference these days is that it has melded all the different main components of the original types of fighters in it; these days you learn a lot of everything and build a strategy focusing on one but using all of them
and are you trapped in 1998 or something? Mccain isn't calling it human cockfighting anymore, it's been legitamate and here to stay for a while
Really?  Have you been watching TUF Heavyweights?  Cardio?  Not so great.  Skills, not so great.  Power?  Also, not so great.  And they canvased the US for these heavyweights and they include ex NFL, people from Jackson's camp etc... 

Be respectful when you speak to me.  I am not a NEW fan.  I never said it was human cock-fighting.  I am glad that not just us, but everyone else is starting to show respect to the sport that it deserves. 

And, being an athlete is NOT easy.  Go ask one.  If it were so damn, easy we'd all be one.  Saying that all you do is be born with talent and go through the motions is insulting.  And I consider a wrestler or a grappling champ a top notch athlete.  But this is MMA and it is a different thing.  You either adapt and do well or you don't.  Just because you were a wrestler, does not guarantee that you can easily transition to MMA.  Ask Rulon Gardener how that worked out.

Also, I don't even know what we are disagreeing about here, I think you are just trying to pick fights to make yourself sound really smart, which I don't think you are and you are just trying to be demeaning.  Anyway, I will continue to voice any opinion I have and I will not be silenced by you.  Have a great day.

A~
#31 | 1777 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
Really?  Have you been watching TUF Heavyweights?  Cardio?  Not so great.  Skills, not so great.  Power?  Also, not so great.  And they canvased the US for these heavyweights and they include ex NFL, people from Jackson's camp etc... 

Be respectful when you speak to me.  I am not a NEW fan.  I never said it was human cock-fighting.  I am glad that not just us, but everyone else is starting to show respect to the sport that it deserves. 

And, being an athlete is NOT easy.  Go ask one.  If it were so damn, easy we'd all be one.  Saying that all you do is be born with talent and go through the motions is insulting.  And I consider a wrestler or a grappling champ a top notch athlete.  But this is MMA and it is a different thing.  You either adapt and do well or you don't.  Just because you were a wrestler, does not guarantee that you can easily transition to MMA.  Ask Rulon Gardener how that worked out.

Also, I don't even know what we are disagreeing about here, I think you are just trying to pick fights to make yourself sound really smart, which I don't think you are and you are just trying to be demeaning.  Anyway, I will continue to voice any opinion I have and I will not be silenced by you.  Have a great day.

A~

yes you prove my point by talking about TUF HW's, those are athletes, for the most part those guys have no experience other than being athletes in their past, no one in their is from jackson's camp, you mean one guy who was at rashad's training camp...meaningless information, if nothing else they do have power though, their cardio is terrible and skill isn't great but they didn't canvase the US to find these guys, they just looked for really big 'athletes' and people whose name would draw viewers, so you only prove my point further; of course they couldv'e found better fighters for TUF 10, but they didn't pick based on skill this time they chose based on fame, size and 'athleticism' just look how that worked out
in this next paragraph i have no idea what your talking about...obviously you dont know this but mccain is actually a senator who once ran to be president..anyway he tried to get UFC shut down and called it human cock fighting..i dont care why your glad about it, and it isn't 'just starting' just because you just started watching
perhaps i spoke wrong in regards to the athlete thing, what i mean is not that being a top athlete is easy, i am making the point that being a fighter is not below being an athlete, if anything, it's way harder and i talked about wrestling because those guys aren't your 'brawlers' as you described them but guys who have already reached superhuman heights of hard training, they had great cardio, power agility or whatever you wanna bring up. also, since you brought it up, about 80% of american fighters in the UFC were all wrestlers so...maybe it doesnt garuntee it but it sure is a lot easier than from anywhere else

yes your the glorious rebel and i the demeaning idiot, obviously i am not going to silence you and since you obviously just scimmed through what i said because most of what you said in your reply had little to nothing to do with what i said but to remind you; this sport didn't suddenly become legitimate is the lesser of the two disagreements and more importantly fighters were never brawlers without cardio, power or agility and now are suddenly becoming your 'top notch athletes'; they always had those things and were never just brawlers and i'm not sure what you mean by top notch athletes but if you mean they are becoming like NFL and NBA, NHL players, they already were in better shape than most of those guys and were more dedicated to the sport and worked harder

if you think those guys would be more succesful in mma just refer back to your argument on TUF 10

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#32 | 1777 days ago
angeltwo (+)

hapkido_warrior wrote:

yes you prove my point by talking about TUF HW's, those are athletes, for the most part those guys have no experience other than being athletes in their past, no one in their is from jackson's camp, you mean one guy who was at rashad's training camp...meaningless information, if nothing else they do have power though, their cardio is terrible and skill isn't great but they didn't canvase the US to find these guys, they just looked for really big 'athletes' and people whose name would draw viewers, so you only prove my point further; of course they couldv'e found better fighters for TUF 10, but they didn't pick based on skill this time they chose based on fame, size and 'athleticism' just look how that worked out
in this next paragraph i have no idea what your talking about...obviously you dont know this but mccain is actually a senator who once ran to be president..anyway he tried to get UFC shut down and called it human cock fighting..i dont care why your glad about it, and it isn't 'just starting' just because you just started watching
perhaps i spoke wrong in regards to the athlete thing, what i mean is not that being a top athlete is easy, i am making the point that being a fighter is not below being an athlete, if anything, it's way harder and i talked about wrestling because those guys aren't your 'brawlers' as you described them but guys who have already reached superhuman heights of hard training, they had great cardio, power agility or whatever you wanna bring up. also, since you brought it up, about 80% of american fighters in the UFC were all wrestlers so...maybe it doesnt garuntee it but it sure is a lot easier than from anywhere else

yes your the glorious rebel and i the demeaning idiot, obviously i am not going to silence you and since you obviously just scimmed through what i said because most of what you said in your reply had little to nothing to do with what i said but to remind you; this sport didn't suddenly become legitimate is the lesser of the two disagreements and more importantly fighters were never brawlers without cardio, power or agility and now are suddenly becoming your 'top notch athletes'; they always had those things and were never just brawlers and i'm not sure what you mean by top notch athletes but if you mean they are becoming like NFL and NBA, NHL players, they already were in better shape than most of those guys and were more dedicated to the sport and worked harder

if you think those guys would be more succesful in mma just refer back to your argument on TUF 10

Ok.  #1 Brendan Schaub and James McSweeney are both from Jackson's camp.  #2.  I know damn well who John McCain is, so well, that I didn't vote for him.  #3  What was your point besides trying to argue with me that you thought they were legit first???  #4.  How come a street brawler name Kimbo Slice is one of the best known names in MMA?  (Not in my opinion, just in general if you ask someone)  Yes.  Wrestling is good!  I agree.  What are you complaining about...cause you think you knew it first?  So what. 

And how old were you in 1998?  7?  And, why are you arguing with me?  No, you are not an idiot, you just write before you think.  Again, I am happy that everyone is seeing them as athletes.  I think athletes in ALL sports should be respected, that's all, including this sport.  I am glad people are taking it seriously and not seeing it as that.  I never thought they were brawlers, but that is what everyone else thinks.  Do you ever talk to other people that are not like yourself, like out in the real world, or just here in MMA world?  Do you have any idea what they think?  THAT is what I am referring too.  Now, in everyone's eyes, they are athletes, not just in ours.    And, it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like you are yours, but you don't have to be rude.

Whatever, you talk like you are the authority and all knowing about UFC.  Well, I watched it on Pay-per-view back in 93', where i was introduced to Royce Gracie.  NEW indeed.  But that doesn't make me an authority on it, just like it doesn't make you one.  So, again, be respectful please. 
A~
#33 | 1777 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
Ok.  #1 Brendan Schaub and James McSweeney are both from Jackson's camp.  #2.  I know damn well who John McCain is, so well, that I didn't vote for him.  #3  What was your point besides trying to argue with me that you thought they were legit first???  #4.  How come a street brawler name Kimbo Slice is one of the best known names in MMA?  (Not in my opinion, just in general if you ask someone)  Yes.  Wrestling is good!  I agree.  What are you complaining about...cause you think you knew it first?  So what. 

And how old were you in 1998?  7?  And, why are you arguing with me?  No, you are not an idiot, you just write before you think.  Again, I am happy that everyone is seeing them as athletes.  I think athletes in ALL sports should be respected, that's all, including this sport.  I am glad people are taking it seriously and not seeing it as that.  I never thought they were brawlers, but that is what everyone else thinks.  Do you ever talk to other people that are not like yourself, like out in the real world, or just here in MMA world?  Do you have any idea what they think?  THAT is what I am referring too.  Now, in everyone's eyes, they are athletes, not just in ours.    And, it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like you are yours, but you don't have to be rude.

Whatever, you talk like you are the authority and all knowing about UFC.  Well, I watched it on Pay-per-view back in 93', where i was introduced to Royce Gracie.  NEW indeed.  But that doesn't make me an authority on it, just like it doesn't make you one.  So, again, be respectful please. 
A~
all i'm saying is, your acting like in the early days it wasn't a sport at all, just a bunch of angry bar room brawlers who decided to get their knuckles wet and that they didn't have any athletic qualaties to them, als you act like being a fighter is somehow less than one of your athlete

i told you who john mccain was because i said he called UFC and mma "human cock fighting", to which your response was "I never said it was human cock fighting" which i said because again you implied that the sport wasn't legitimized until just recently
i would hardly call kimbo slice more well known than any title holder, and he got famous due to youtube and plus thats just one guy, most of them aren't brawlers.

you aren't listening with the wrestling, i'm saying they were athletes when they came to the UFC back then because they were already wrestlers and wrestlers already have 'cardio, power and agility' and athletic qualaties.

why do you think i was 7 in 1998?

i don't disagree that your average guy sees them in that light, but you made it appear as those they actually were just brawlers; just because the average guy sees them as a brawler doesn't make it true
i'll ignore your attempts at personal jabs in there since they aren't relevant to this.

the point is here, you act like the early fighters were not athletes and the sport was just some brawlers without any training walking off the street to fight, whether that is your opinion or not, that is the message i got from your original message and is my issue with it, if that is not your opinion then there is no disagreement here
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#34 | 1777 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
Ok.  #1 Brendan Schaub and James McSweeney are both from Jackson's camp.  #2.  I know damn well who John McCain is, so well, that I didn't vote for him.  #3  What was your point besides trying to argue with me that you thought they were legit first???  #4.  How come a street brawler name Kimbo Slice is one of the best known names in MMA?  (Not in my opinion, just in general if you ask someone)  Yes.  Wrestling is good!  I agree.  What are you complaining about...cause you think you knew it first?  So what. 

And how old were you in 1998?  7?  And, why are you arguing with me?  No, you are not an idiot, you just write before you think.  Again, I am happy that everyone is seeing them as athletes.  I think athletes in ALL sports should be respected, that's all, including this sport.  I am glad people are taking it seriously and not seeing it as that.  I never thought they were brawlers, but that is what everyone else thinks.  Do you ever talk to other people that are not like yourself, like out in the real world, or just here in MMA world?  Do you have any idea what they think?  THAT is what I am referring too.  Now, in everyone's eyes, they are athletes, not just in ours.    And, it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like you are yours, but you don't have to be rude.

Whatever, you talk like you are the authority and all knowing about UFC.  Well, I watched it on Pay-per-view back in 93', where i was introduced to Royce Gracie.  NEW indeed.  But that doesn't make me an authority on it, just like it doesn't make you one.  So, again, be respectful please. 
A~
although you were correct on brendan schaub and mcsweeney, i was under the impression they had trained with rashad at a seperate camp, so in that respect i was wrong however, that has little pertinence on our disagreement. although they are relatively new to jackson's camp i believe, which could give some reason to why they were in such bad shape and so badly rounded comparing them to most of jackson's fighters
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#35 | 1776 days ago
angeltwo (+)

I NEVER thought that.  I always loved it.  They were all masters of their style.  Everyone knows that.  It was not legitimized at first because of the lack of rules.  When UFC started working with the ATHLETIC commissions to ensure it's way back to pay-per-view did it start becoming a "sport" so to speak.  Even now, people show up at gyms thinking they can just jump in and fight and there you go.  Not so.  Now, you can go to gyms and actually "train" for MMA, after you have a tryout.  That didn't used to be the case. 

The more popular and legitimate your sport is, the more fans you get, the more money there is in the sport, the more money the athletes make.  That is good!  I welcome anyone who is interested in MMA to be a fan.  People like you, like to belittle them and make them not even want to bother since you think you know everything.  Do you know any other sports where professionals have to have day jobs? NFL, no, NBA, no, MLB, no, NHL, no.  This was one of them.  Only now is that starting to change.  I know lots of people in MMA and a lot of them have day jobs. 

It says you are 18 years old, that's why.  I can count.

Also, the current heavyweight champ is ex-NFL and WWE.  He is an athlete.  They aren't MY athletes, they are OUR athletes.  MMA athletes.  Not just karate, not just wresting, not just boxing.  It has become its own thing.  There are young kids training in it now.  And, just wait until they start getting in the game.  You will see a whole new level of MMA.  All things continue to change and grow including sports and that is good.

The reason I point out your mistakes is so everyone knows that you don't know everything so they aren't intimidated by you because you speak in fact.  You say things like they are facts even when they aren't.  For example, "no one on there is from Jackson's camp".  Again, think before you write, and you attacked me first.  You said what I said was stupid.  That is demeaning.  You called me rebellious which implies I am rebelling against you and you see yourself as an authority on MMA over me.  You needn't reply cuz I am done with you.  Go bug someone else.

To everyone else, keep writing your opinions, because I for one like to read them.  It gives us food for thought.  And anyone who wants too can write to me privately, if you don't want to on here.  I am always up for respectful MMA discussion.  I won't call you stupid, I am glad you are interested and love converts!  It is good for the sport.

A~
#36 | 1776 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
I NEVER thought that.  I always loved it.  They were all masters of their style.  Everyone knows that.  It was not legitimized at first because of the lack of rules.  When UFC started working with the ATHLETIC commissions to ensure it's way back to pay-per-view did it start becoming a "sport" so to speak.  Even now, people show up at gyms thinking they can just jump in and fight and there you go.  Not so.  Now, you can go to gyms and actually "train" for MMA, after you have a tryout.  That didn't used to be the case. 

The more popular and legitimate your sport is, the more fans you get, the more money there is in the sport, the more money the athletes make.  That is good!  I welcome anyone who is interested in MMA to be a fan.  People like you, like to belittle them and make them not even want to bother since you think you know everything.  Do you know any other sports where professionals have to have day jobs? NFL, no, NBA, no, MLB, no, NHL, no.  This was one of them.  Only now is that starting to change.  I know lots of people in MMA and a lot of them have day jobs. 

It says you are 18 years old, that's why.  I can count.

Also, the current heavyweight champ is ex-NFL and WWE.  He is an athlete.  They aren't MY athletes, they are OUR athletes.  MMA athletes.  Not just karate, not just wresting, not just boxing.  It has become its own thing.  There are young kids training in it now.  And, just wait until they start getting in the game.  You will see a whole new level of MMA.  All things continue to change and grow including sports and that is good.

The reason I point out your mistakes is so everyone knows that you don't know everything so they aren't intimidated by you because you speak in fact.  You say things like they are facts even when they aren't.  For example, "no one on there is from Jackson's camp".  Again, think before you write, and you attacked me first.  You said what I said was stupid.  That is demeaning.  You called me rebellious which implies I am rebelling against you and you see yourself as an authority on MMA over me.  You needn't reply cuz I am done with you.  Go bug someone else.

To everyone else, keep writing your opinions, because I for one like to read them.  It gives us food for thought.  And anyone who wants too can write to me privately, if you don't want to on here.  I am always up for respectful MMA discussion.  I won't call you stupid, I am glad you are interested and love converts!  It is good for the sport.

A~

your not even reading what i am saying..or i am giving the wrong impression here
either way, my disagreement again was not that the sport is recognized by your average guy as typical NBA, NFL type sports; it was simply with the way you made it seem as though it wasn't really a sport made up by athletes in the beginning, i am not really sure what that long rave was about but thats not what i'm getting at here.

I just BSed my information so...thats probably not accurate.
again you seem to have misread or i mistyped my intent here, I am not saying that only wrestlers do this, and that no one trains mma or whatever thats about, or that for some reason that wouldn't be a good thing, i was saying the early fighters were in fact great athletes and not JUST brawlers, that was my only point, you read to much into it.

ummm...ok, so everyone isn't intimidated? yes you were correct about jackson's thing, i never said i was always right and i appreciate it when i'm corrected like that, i don't know what the rest is about and again all that really isn't pertinent.

again, not trying to stop converts or other fans, i may have called you stupid in a bad mood if you will; however, the only disagreement i had is that you originally implied/wrote that the early fighters were just brawlers and not top notch athletes and that the sport itself has been on the brink of existance until it rapidly grew in popularity (which i never said was a bad thing) when there have always been a large group of real fans of the sport.

You keep bringing up side topics, i don't see why you keep bringing up all this rebel/ who is who and whats what, i know that stuff, dont think that just because I didn't know two guys were Jackson's camp that i know nothing, all your doing is stating common knowledge and attacking me personally- try either agreeing or disagreeing to the point i repeatedly write, not some other nonsense and give some reason why so this isn't just two idiots typing knowledge to see who is best on here, or just keep doing what your doing, it really doesn't make a difference, no one is 'intimidated' on here and your not a martyr or icon, i'm trying to engage you in an actual debate over this, repeatedly ignoring your attempts at personal attacks and you just keep coming with em. so it is apparant to me that your only goal here was to insult me and type as much common knowledge as you could to sound great.

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#37 | 1776 days ago

oh and i didn't call you stupid after reviewing my writing, the idea that 'athletes' (implying NFL, NBA etc.) are superior to fighters, whether early or even now, is what is stupid, because they generally train harder and are generally more dedicated to what they do
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#38 | 1776 days ago
angeltwo (+)

You also aren't reading or understanding what I am saying.  This convo is futile.  Anyone else got something to say?  I'd love to hear it...A~
#39 | 1776 days ago

angeltwo wrote:
You also aren't reading or understanding what I am saying.  This convo is futile.  Anyone else got something to say?  I'd love to hear it...A~
i read and responded to everything you said, if there is anything i haven't addressed beyond your personal claims, then please enlighten me, you seem to be agreeing with every point i bring up and still saying i am wrong.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#40 | 1776 days ago

the UFC will focus on ground and pound in the future.

every fighter says the fastest way to turn a grappler into a striker is to punch him in the nose so even better grapplers won't beat great punchers and decent grapplers just look at lesnar.

I don't think there will be any other fighters outside the UFC and WEC once Dana is done in a couple years
1. Focused more on ground & pound.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#41 | 1773 days ago

i highly doubt it will focus more on GNP, you wouldn't walk in to any grappling dojo or gym and think, these guys are all equal because they've been training for 4-5 years so they must just cancel each other out for submissions

no, grapplers are not equal, its why grappling is in itself a sport, and these guys train and convert their grappling to mma so a couple punches won't just stop them dead in their tracks, lesnar hasn't faced anyone with great jiu-jitsu skills that would match up against his wrestling in my mind, but look at randy couture, randy did great in their fight because of his wrestling (up until he got knocked unconcious ON THE FEET) and stand-up will always be part of it, no matter what you do, if you can punch and kick a guy then your going to

and i'm not sure what you mean dragon, are you saying in boxing they get KO'd more than in mma by one lucky punch? thats not true, just look at the gloves, you gotta be rocked to be taken down by those things which is why it normally takes consecutive flash KO's to get a real one, in MMA people go out cold all the time
and i don't know what you mean by 'rocky mma edition' but i assume you mean an mma movie, and there are several

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#42 | 1773 days ago

(Edited by hapkido_warrior)
i've always disagreed with the rock, paper, scissor philosophy; it's not a video game and a great boxer won't necassarily be beaten by a great muay thai striker, a good wrestler won't necasily be beaten by a good jiu jitsu guy or vice versa or with any combination of style- there are no garuntees, and none are particularily superior to another one, it is a matter of conversion and use not just what it is your using.

I didn't only say it takes a lot of skill, i said it DOESN't happen by mistake, it takes a lot more than one lucky punch due to the size of boxing gloves, which isn't true in MMA, one big swing is all it takes in MMA.

Yes, that was gray maynard's fight and was very controversial: i assume that's the one your talking about because there's only 3 or 4 famous instances of something like that happening and only one where the guy tapping wasn't the one KO'd that i know of. Brock knows plenty, he just focuses on what he's good at, like any other fighter, just to a greater degree.
his hands aren't 4x anyone else's in the UFC, he wears 4x gloves, it's a size and carwin can match that so...thats not true

they don't fight like samurai because samurai use weapons, they don't fight like shaolin because many of those techniques aren't effective in a match like this (or legal) any UFC fighter would destroy a shaolin monk in the cage, in the street fight i think they would too virtually every time, but than shaolin's style is trained for that but UFC fighters are superior fighters.

all of bruce lee's movie's are credited with that, along with many other martial arts movies in the 80s/90s but if that isn't good enough for you there was a movie named never back down that was entirely about mma along with several other cheaper one's
i'm not sure what you mean by with a 'rocky' feel but it's the same formula they use in rocky/ karate kid and every movie of the style
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#43 | 1773 days ago

(Edited by 13Fox)
you talk about Lesnar like hes an unstoppable monster, yet hes only been in 4 UFC fights and tapped out to Frank Mir in UFC 81.
yeah his hands are huge, but i guess that means they are louder when he taps out!!! he also weighed in over 45 lbs. heavier than
Mir, for those of you who dont think thats a big difference go curl 45 lbs a couple of times. these guys are athletes in every way, the difference between these athletes and others is heart! if a wide receiver drops a pass he says damn ill get the next one! if a mma athlete misses a block hes knocked out, dazed, or hurt! mma athletes are literally gambling with their bodies! theres more on the line with mma athletes.
WANDERLEI SILVA FTW!!!
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#44 | 1773 days ago

I don't think it was 45 lbs heavier, he weighs in at 265 and i know mir did not weight in at 220, and your not curling someone in a fight, it's not about weight lifting ability at all; size is only an advantage when the skill comes with it
Urijah farber could whoop a 300 pound gym rat who wasn't that good at fighting (or any other WEC fighter for that matter)
and his loss to mir was always a fluke in my eyes, i mean mir was getting destroyed and then the ref pulled brock off for 1 punch to the back of the head, mir was getting pounded again and brock got excited and mir got lucky due to brock's inexperience
not that brock is unstoppable but he's a lot better than you give him credit for.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#45 | 1773 days ago

(Edited by 13Fox)
hapkido_warrior wrote:
I don't think it was 45 lbs heavier, he weighs in at 265 and i know mir did not weight in at 220, and your not curling someone in a fight, it's not about weight lifting ability at all; size is only an advantage when the skill comes with it
Urijah farber could whoop a 300 pound gym rat who wasn't that good at fighting (or any other WEC fighter for that matter)
and his loss to mir was always a fluke in my eyes, i mean mir was getting destroyed and then the ref pulled brock off for 1 punch to the back of the head, mir was getting pounded again and brock got excited and mir got lucky due to brock's inexperience
not that brock is unstoppable but he's a lot better than you give him credit for.
the fact you say weight has no impact tells me your a) your a Lesnar fan or b) aren't talking about the same sport. regardless of that weight has a lot to do with this sport, thats why you dont see Sean Sherk vs. Heath Herring. your right about curling someone in the octogon but before you comment on someones post read it first "for those of you who dont think thats a big difference go curl 45 lbs a couple of times." that has absolutely NOTHING to do with curling someone in a fight or their strength training.
are you seriously going to argue with everybody else about this being a sport and these are real athletes and then say he won by a fluke??? then a few lines later say Brock was inexperienced??? regardless of how anyone wins short of cheating is a win. tapout, knockout,stoppage due to injury, are all wins. I dont care if he was an inch of his life he made BROCK TAP OUT! and a punch to the back of the head is against the rules! 
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#46 | 1773 days ago

hapkido_warrior wrote:
I don't think it was 45 lbs heavier, he weighs in at 265 and i know mir did not weight in at 220, and your not curling someone in a fight, it's not about weight lifting ability at all; size is only an advantage when the skill comes with it
Urijah farber could whoop a 300 pound gym rat who wasn't that good at fighting (or any other WEC fighter for that matter)
and his loss to mir was always a fluke in my eyes, i mean mir was getting destroyed and then the ref pulled brock off for 1 punch to the back of the head, mir was getting pounded again and brock got excited and mir got lucky due to brock's inexperience
not that brock is unstoppable but he's a lot better than you give him credit for.
and yet i find a comment of yours directly concerned about weight. heres your post;
written by hapkido_warrior:

since vera's win over frank mir he hasnt won against any top contenders in a looong time

also i wonder if there fight will be at LHW or HW because that should have an impact on it

swick/hardy should be a good fight although im not a big fan of hardy, i wanna see davis get his rematch with hardy

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#47 | 1772 days ago

13Fox wrote:
and yet i find a comment of yours directly concerned about weight. heres your post;
written by hapkido_warrior:

since vera's win over frank mir he hasnt won against any top contenders in a looong time

also i wonder if there fight will be at LHW or HW because that should have an impact on it

swick/hardy should be a good fight although im not a big fan of hardy, i wanna see davis get his rematch with hardy

i guess i gave the wrong idea here, i didn't mean that weight had no impact on a fight at all, in fact thats not what i said
what i mean is that unless brock's skill level is atleast on the same caliber than weight won't help him, all i was saying is brock isn't where he is today because of his size alone, it's just a contributing factor but that is what i meant by that.

thats the only match i've EVER seen where they got stood up from just one strike to the back of the head though, one strike deserves warning not a stand up, i never said brock was experienced i said he was skilled those are two different things, he hasn't been in the submission game long and wasn't looking for it, had he been practicing more than he wouldn't have made such an obvious mistake, fluke's happen all the time in sports i don't see what that has to do with this....
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#48 | 1772 days ago

i don't think my confusion of bruce lee's death with that of his sons has any relation to whether or not his movie helped encourage the growth of MMA, the fight was a mid card, there is no such thing as a double lose, atleast not in the UFC or any top org i know of

yes, that was gray maynard's fight, his hands are no bigger than carwins and yes he is pretty stong..
rock, paper scissors implied that one style cancels out another, it doesn't imply what i said at all but i'll take your word on it

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#49 | 1772 days ago

I never said football players don't have heart, just that mma fighters have more! heart to me is the will
to soldier on when it feels like your doomed! football/most other sports have many breaks and the changing of offense and
defense. and most importantly if you lose your not facing a knockout or an arm twisted so bad it is highly likely to break!
an entire mma bout is high adrenaline, heart pounding, nerves, and some level of fear/concern. a football game rarely
has these things all the way through, Im not saying it has never happened.
the fact that you say the idea is stupid(even though its not my idea) is un called for, this site isn't to slander someones ideas
or opinions but to discuss them or disagree without being completely rude!
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#50 | 1772 days ago

13Fox wrote:
I never said football players don't have heart, just that mma fighters have more! heart to me is the will
to soldier on when it feels like your doomed! football/most other sports have many breaks and the changing of offense and
defense. and most importantly if you lose your not facing a knockout or an arm twisted so bad it is highly likely to break!
an entire mma bout is high adrenaline, heart pounding, nerves, and some level of fear/concern. a football game rarely
has these things all the way through, Im not saying it has never happened.
the fact that you say the idea is stupid(even though its not my idea) is un called for, this site isn't to slander someones ideas
or opinions but to discuss them or disagree without being completely rude!

i definitely agree that MMA fighters have more intensity and heart than most football players which is why i generally resent this idea that their transforming from brutal brawlers with no cardio to great athletes like NBA and NFL players, when i think fighters have more heart, determination and conditioning than those guys do from the beginning
those games have benches, time outs and much less overall pressure than an MMA match not to mention if one guy is ever slumping he can lean on his team mates, on the mat you can only rely on yourself and there are no breaks or excuses out there

1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. Or the status quo ?  3. The more he tightens his grip the more star systems (err , Fighters ) will slip through his fingers.  
#51 | 1772 days ago

hapkido_warrior wrote:
i guess i gave the wrong idea here, i didn't mean that weight had no impact on a fight at all, in fact thats not what i said
what i mean is that unless brock's skill level is atleast on the same caliber than weight won't help him, all i was saying is brock isn't where he is today because of his size alone, it's just a contributing factor but that is what i meant by that.

thats the only match i've EVER seen where they got stood up from just one strike to the back of the head though, one strike deserves warning not a stand up, i never said brock was experienced i said he was skilled those are two different things, he hasn't been in the submission game long and wasn't looking for it, had he been practicing more than he wouldn't have made such an obvious mistake, fluke's happen all the time in sports i don't see what that has to do with this....
ok, i see your point. i disagree but i see your point. the way Lesnar carries himself and the crap
he talks just runs the sport down in my opinion. having character and complete disrespect for the
sport/fighters are 2 different things.
and post #46 you clearly stated Mir got lucky due to Brocks inexperience.
all that aside, I hope you enjoy the upcoming bout between Ortiz and Griffin.
my money is on Griffin due to his still evolving style and the ability to exploit other fighters weaknesses
very well lately! Ortiz wont go down like a chump but i dont think Griffin will give him any help and make
mistakes.
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  
#52 | 1772 days ago

we are going to have to agree to disagree. I too served, army 13 fox (forward observer) 2 tours of duty!
I know exactly what heart is and Woods wouldn't know what heart is if it smacked him in the face!
ive listened to the man whine and complain about things not going his way and why hes getting beat
today etc...
if you go into a mma bout like you do a basketball game or golf, your going to wake up in the hospital if
your lucky. and basketball/football is a team effort which relieves alot of pressure on the single player!
1. Focused more on grappling & submissions.  2. The Fighting & Fighters?  3. Dana wins! Resistance is futile!  

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